Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Milltown Row2]

Was that not agreed months before it though?

Nope.

It was agreed in August, right in the middle of the pandemic and just a couple of months before approval was granted. It's a clear conflict of interest.

So in the middle but not when it was certain that it would be approved? Seems a big enough gamble, but if you're loaded taking those gambles is easy

[Seaney]

https://www.ft.com/content/ef3449eb-084b-4192-ab95-91a715317ad0

Soon after Britain became the first country to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, several prominent French doctors said it was too early to declare the mRNA-based shot safe and effective. Alain Fischer, the government's top vaccine adviser, called for time to allow European and French regulators to complete their assessment. "We only have two to three months of perspective on the safety and efficacy data of these vaccines," he said on television. "The data is not yet complete either to know if they protect against transmitting the virus." "There is still a lot we don't know about the virus . . . And we do not obviously know everything about the vaccines that are coming," French president Emmanuel Macron said on 4 December.

You will be on the hit list with such sensible posts.

[Seaney]

Am I correct in understanding that the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting Covid or transmitting it, but will stop you from getting very sick from it?

No. There simply isn't data on this yet. It may stop, or greatly reduce, transmission, but the Jury is still out on this.
It likely does reduce transmission, but by how much will take a several months of data.

Ill rephrase that for you - no one knows, no one has a scooby doo, no one knows what other side effects are down the line, no one knows if you need this vaccine every 6 months, every year, every two years, it has been rushed out hence the data is as flaky as hell.

This is true. However what they do know to date is the vaccine efficiency rate is around 90%. A fairly welcome stat.

90% protection for what, a week, a month, a year?

So if by spring all the vulnerable are vaccinated and the UK opens up only to find in summer it only offered 6 months protection, that be some mess!

[trueblue1234]

Trueblue I think he should give his profits to charity and then that would appease the whole thing 

I can just see the headline now. "Man makes money from job." It's an outrage.

Or the actual headline which reports on reality:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/pfizer-ceo-sold-stock-worth-5-6-million-same-day-n1247398

So long as we're clear that Big Pharma is primarily concerned about making billions of profits rather than the safety and wellbeing of the population.

That just reports on the facts. No one is denying he sold the shares. Or that he had an agreement to sell shares when they hit a certain value. He used a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan. All standard.

So again, unless I'm missing something this is a nothing story, unless you want it to be.

[trueblue1234]

Am I correct in understanding that the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting Covid or transmitting it, but will stop you from getting very sick from it?

No. There simply isn't data on this yet. It may stop, or greatly reduce, transmission, but the Jury is still out on this.
It likely does reduce transmission, but by how much will take a several months of data.

Ill rephrase that for you - no one knows, no one has a scooby doo, no one knows what other side effects are down the line, no one knows if you need this vaccine every 6 months, every year, every two years, it has been rushed out hence the data is as flaky as hell.

This is true. However what they do know to date is the vaccine efficiency rate is around 90%. A fairly welcome stat.

90% protection for what, a week, a month, a year?

So if by spring all the vulnerable are vaccinated and the UK opens up only to find in summer it only offered 6 months protection, that be some mess!

Or if they find out that it lasts a lifetime then all will be right with the world. I'm sure they are tracking the levels of protection from the trials so we will hear if the protection starts to diminish. But we'd be no worth off than not having got the vaccine in the first place.

[imtommygunn]

Was that not agreed months before it though?

Nope.

It was agreed in August, right in the middle of the pandemic and just a couple of months before approval was granted. It's a clear conflict of interest.

So in the middle but not when it was certain that it would be approved? Seems a big enough gamble, but if you're loaded taking those gambles is easy

Yeah so he didn't just sell them on the day of it being approved. He had prior agreement. aka my point.

So what will we say now? He had incentive to get it approved? It was self interest?

A CEO making money from the vaccine is a non story. If any other company had got this approved first their CEO would have stood to make significant money. If this is a success it is a game changer for the world. How in any way would someone not make money from that??

5-6 million for someone like that, as has been stated, is nothing.

[Angelo]

Trueblue I think he should give his profits to charity and then that would appease the whole thing 

I can just see the headline now. "Man makes money from job." It's an outrage.

Or the actual headline which reports on reality:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/pfizer-ceo-sold-stock-worth-5-6-million-same-day-n1247398

So long as we're clear that Big Pharma is primarily concerned about making billions of profits rather than the safety and wellbeing of the population.

That just reports on the facts. No one is denying he sold the shares. Or that he had an agreement to sell shares when they hit a certain value. He used a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan. All standard.

So again, unless I'm missing something this is a nothing story, unless you want it to be.

You are clearly missing the conflict of interest.

[Angelo]

Was that not agreed months before it though?

Nope.

It was agreed in August, right in the middle of the pandemic and just a couple of months before approval was granted. It's a clear conflict of interest.

So in the middle but not when it was certain that it would be approved? Seems a big enough gamble, but if you're loaded taking those gambles is easy

Yeah so he didn't just sell them on the day of it being approved. He had prior agreement. aka my point.

So what will we say now? He had incentive to get it approved? It was self interest?

A CEO making money from the vaccine is a non story. If any other company had got this approved first their CEO would have stood to make significant money. If this is a success it is a game changer for the world. How in any way would someone not make money from that??

5-6 million for someone like that, as has been stated, is nothing.

5-6m for anyone is huge money.

He had an incentive and a self-interest to get that vaccine to market, that simply should not have been the case. Full stop. It further erodes whatever confidence in big pharma.

[trueblue1234]

It's actually around $700,000. The increase was around 15%. The shares weren't zero prior to the vaccine.

I think we can all agree this would not amount to much to the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly anyone who things this amount would be worthwhile taking the risks Angelo is suggesting is either lacking the intelligence to have worked out the full story or using it as a tool to push a separate agenda.

[Angelo]

It's actually around $700,000. The increase was around 15%. The shares weren't zero prior to the vaccine.

I think we can all agree this would not amount to much to the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly anyone who things this amount would be worthwhile taking the risks Angelo is suggesting is either lacking the intelligence to have worked out the full story or using it as a tool to push a separate agenda.

5-6m amounts to a lot for anyone, it's a third of his salary, that's significant. I think you struggle to comprehend the way capitalist pigs operate. You act like he is a compassionate man who cares what people think, that's not the way these people work. They don't care about these things as long as they get away with it, look at all the tax loopholes billionaires cheat the taxpayer out of every year, they don't care as long as they get away with it.

Why did corporate bankers take all those risks in the financial crash?

There's so many studies done about the sociopathic nature of major corporate executives. These are not ordinary thinkers you are talking about, these are callous and driven people who care only about how much money they make and that greed is what can do for them in the end.

Sean Quinn is a classic example, why did the richest man in Ireland want more and more and more?

[thebigfella]

This thread reminds me of moon landing conspiracy theorists. No matter what theory is debunked, they cannot help themselves.

[trueblue1234]

It's actually around $700,000. The increase was around 15%. The shares weren't zero prior to the vaccine.

I think we can all agree this would not amount to much to the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly anyone who things this amount would be worthwhile taking the risks Angelo is suggesting is either lacking the intelligence to have worked out the full story or using it as a tool to push a separate agenda.

5-6m amounts to a lot for anyone, it's a third of his salary, that's significant. I think you struggle to comprehend the way capitalist pigs operate. You act like he is a compassionate man who cares what people think, that's not the way these people work. They don't care about these things as long as they get away with it, look at all the tax loopholes billionaires cheat the taxpayer out of every year, they don't care as long as they get away with it.

Why did corporate bankers take all those risks in the financial crash?

There's so many studies done about the sociopathic nature of major corporate executives. These are not ordinary thinkers you are talking about, these are callous and driven people who care only about how much money they make and that greed is what can do for them in the end.

Sean Quinn is a classic example, why did the richest man in Ireland want more and more and more?

Yeah but as i mentioned $700K isn't that much for the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly not enough to jeopardize a $18M a year package.

[Angelo]

It's actually around $700,000. The increase was around 15%. The shares weren't zero prior to the vaccine.

I think we can all agree this would not amount to much to the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly anyone who things this amount would be worthwhile taking the risks Angelo is suggesting is either lacking the intelligence to have worked out the full story or using it as a tool to push a separate agenda.

5-6m amounts to a lot for anyone, it's a third of his salary, that's significant. I think you struggle to comprehend the way capitalist pigs operate. You act like he is a compassionate man who cares what people think, that's not the way these people work. They don't care about these things as long as they get away with it, look at all the tax loopholes billionaires cheat the taxpayer out of every year, they don't care as long as they get away with it.

Why did corporate bankers take all those risks in the financial crash?

There's so many studies done about the sociopathic nature of major corporate executives. These are not ordinary thinkers you are talking about, these are callous and driven people who care only about how much money they make and that greed is what can do for them in the end.

Sean Quinn is a classic example, why did the richest man in Ireland want more and more and more?

Yeah but as i mentioned $700K isn't that much for the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly not enough to jeopardize a $18M a year package.

Jeopardise?

You see there's an arrogance with these people. They think they will get it away with and they are generally right. So how is he jeopardising this. The optics of it are terrible and the bottom line is that people who are hesitant about the safety of this vaccine then see that the CEO of Pfizer stands to profit from rushing this vaccine through. That only serves to erode trust.

[TabClear]

It's actually around $700,000. The increase was around 15%. The shares weren't zero prior to the vaccine.

I think we can all agree this would not amount to much to the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly anyone who things this amount would be worthwhile taking the risks Angelo is suggesting is either lacking the intelligence to have worked out the full story or using it as a tool to push a separate agenda.

5-6m amounts to a lot for anyone, it's a third of his salary, that's significant. I think you struggle to comprehend the way capitalist pigs operate. You act like he is a compassionate man who cares what people think, that's not the way these people work. They don't care about these things as long as they get away with it, look at all the tax loopholes billionaires cheat the taxpayer out of every year, they don't care as long as they get away with it.

Why did corporate bankers take all those risks in the financial crash?

There's so many studies done about the sociopathic nature of major corporate executives. These are not ordinary thinkers you are talking about, these are callous and driven people who care only about how much money they make and that greed is what can do for them in the end.

Sean Quinn is a classic example, why did the richest man in Ireland want more and more and more?

Yeah but as i mentioned $700K isn't that much for the CEO of Pfizer. And certainly not enough to jeopardize a $18M a year package.

Am I missing something here. My reading of this is that the CEO had shares in his company as as normal. In August he set limits in his portfolio that said sell x shares when the price hits Y. I can do something similar on my shareholding platform so what is the issue? Naturally enough when the vaccine was announced the share price rose and triggered the threshold? He had no way of knowing what the market reaction would be? He has a duty to the other shareholders to maximise the share price so whats the problem?

[trueblue1234]

As I said earlier, I'm happy to get behind you on the hating of these people. I just need something to hang my hat on. Other than a general "I hate big Pharma" splurge.