Kildare v Mayo AI Qualifier Round 3

[straightred]

We've now reached page 60 and we're nearly all still in group think that Kildare is right and the GAA ( and Mayo with some )is wrong.
Why didn't KCB fight their case with the 4Cs/HQ on Monday morning after they were asked to nominate amother venue?
Instead it appears they refused to engage and then went into the public domain and painted themselves into a corner from which there's no retreat?
Not much leadership or negotiation  skills there.
As it stands they're going to refuse to fulfil an official fixture, get thrown out of the competition then presumably start a long drawn out appeals process and fûck up the Summer for 11 other Counties and their supporters and of course all the club players in those Counties.

All because they have a dump of a County ground.

I expect loads of abuse for this post

Maybe they did ? Maybe they simply looked at the rules and decided that they were doing nothing wrong and that common sense would prevail. The GAA then tried to bounce them into something and they are refusing to comply. Good on them.

[Applesisapples]

If you take the emotion out of it, hard to do I accept, the GAA decided Newbridge could not host the game on health and safety grounds, with an all ticket capacity of C.8,000. Mayo take somewhere in the region of 10,000 fans with them which means that 60% of their fans can't be accommodated.The potential for a sizeable number to turn up with out tickets is there. Kildare were asked to nominate an alternative venue, as Cavan did with Brewster Park but like the spoilt brat refused to do so. Irrespective of TV rights county teams would be nowhere without the fans and the GAA is right to try and ensure as many as possible see the game. If Kildare had drawn Clare there wouldn't have been an issue but Mayo travel in numbers. at this stage of the qualifiers I don't think the luck of the draw should determine where a game is played, in my opinion. Any GAA player should feel privileged to get to play in Croke Park and as top billing as well in front of Tyrone/Cavan!

In case you missed it I'll remind you that there is no entitlement to getting a ticket for a match and just because Mayo have lots of fans doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Furthermore even if you have a season ticket it STILL doesn't automatically entitle you to a ticket. Here is section 42 of the current season ticket Ts&Cs
"In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture"

Capacity in Newbridge is a red herring.

Its not a red herring it is relevant and fans put money into the GAA. What always strikes me about us in the GAA we always gice off, about the CB, Croke Park, the GPA etc... but it is a democratic organisation, it can be changed by a majority vote. You just have to want the change enough to persuade the CB, PC and Congress.

[Mayo4Sam14]

We've now reached page 60 and we're nearly all still in group think that Kildare is right and the GAA ( and Mayo with some )is wrong.
Why didn't KCB fight their case with the 4Cs/HQ on Monday morning after they were asked to nominate amother venue?
Instead it appears they refused to engage and then went into the public domain and painted themselves into a corner from which there's no retreat?
Not much leadership or negotiation  skills there.
As it stands they're going to refuse to fulfil an official fixture, get thrown out of the competition then presumably start a long drawn out appeals process and fûck up the Summer for 11 other Counties and their supporters and of course all the club players in those Counties.

All because they have a dump of a County ground.

I expect loads of abuse for this post

Maybe they did ? Maybe they simply looked at the rules and decided that they were doing nothing wrong and that common sense would prevail. The GAA then tried to bounce them into something and they are refusing to comply. Good on them.

But there's no maybe, they didn't. They were asked to nominate an alternate venue, they refused so the game was fixed for croker

[dublin7]

We've now reached page 60 and we're nearly all still in group think that Kildare is right and the GAA ( and Mayo with some )is wrong.
Why didn't KCB fight their case with the 4Cs/HQ on Monday morning after they were asked to nominate amother venue?
Instead it appears they refused to engage and then went into the public domain and painted themselves into a corner from which there's no retreat?
Not much leadership or negotiation  skills there.
As it stands they're going to refuse to fulfil an official fixture, get thrown out of the competition then presumably start a long drawn out appeals process and fûck up the Summer for 11 other Counties and their supporters and of course all the club players in those Counties.

All because they have a dump of a County ground.

I expect loads of abuse for this post

Off the Ball am interviewed Ned Quinn the chairman of the CCCC yesterday morning (it's on youtube). Car crash performance by Ned.

Based on his interview Kildare told them they wanted to play in newbridge. CCCC asked Kildare to name an alternative venue. Kidare didn't as they wanted newbridge. Bear in imnd they had permission from the gardai for 7pm throw in and ground meets H&S requirements. It seems Kildare only found out it was in croke park when they seen the GAA's press release. When Ned was asked did anyone from the CCCC ring the kildare board to tell them they were switching the game to croker he couldn't get a straight answer. In other word they didn't and arrogantly thought Kildare would just accept it and say nothing

[seafoid]

It was in the year of eighteen, in the lovely month of Jan
The Lily whites were promoted and the excitement it was grand
But seven games on the trot they were f**king traumatic ,
and relegation when it came sure it was automatic

The championship start was not ideal, Kildare fragile you know
And who came out of the draw itself but WTF Carlow
And Horse Lawlor he did get the ball and had loads of time to choose
And once he set his sights on goal sure the Lilies could only lose

And KCR they lost the plot, sure the Carlow boys went mad
While on KFM across the county the mood was very sad
The rasta midgets had had their day, their victory was tremenjus
But the Flourbags had to lick their wounds and start praying the Angelus.

This was worse than an embarrassment it was biblical in scope
And on the board Kuwabate and Donnellys had surrendered all their hope
O'Neill was f**king hopeless and his tactics were so poor
What was he doing managing the Lilies, the useless clueless hoor

And outsiders they did shake the head and ask all the questions
All that money in Kildare and the team is only messin'
And Newbridge it is still a kip with no corporate suites to offer
And Meath are just as bad and the 2 counties have nothing in the coffer

But life is about soldiering on and the qualifiers offer redemption
Even if the Lilies were only looking at a losing series extension
At least it's not the Leinster championship with the Dubs , that awful load
You can win a few matches with a bit of luck and go further down the road

In Derry the opposition was hard enough to beat
The backs and forwards had to work together in the heat
This was a novelty after all the losing- it was hard to stay on task
But they kept the engine running and that's all anyone could ever ask.

Next up the Larries in their home place- the fans had to shell out
They had beaten Meath you see and were in with a good shout
But the flourbags got the oul mojo going it was a decent oul feeling
An open road and enough horsepower to leave the Larries reeling

So now onto Round 3 and hopefully deeper into July
A draw like Clare at home it would be surely worth a try
A three game winning streak is better than playing cat
And a Saturday evening in the town with pints you could well get used to that

Ah well some of the lads and lassies  had never been arsed watching the Lilies at home before.
It would be the first time Geraldine would have seen the forwards score.
And before they heard the draw, they knew they'd play the same
So they all agreed that Newbridge was the place to play the game.

But the hoors above in Dublin they had a fella called McGill
And he f**king ordered the Lilies to play in Dublin
The county it was outraged  ONeill would take no crap
And Kildare defied the HQ and all attempts at a bitchslap.

So CP rolled out some big guns and the biggest , Health and Safety
They wanted all the Kildare fans to be drinking in the Big Tree
But Kildare decided otherwise, they had the gander going
And Croke Park ran out of ammunition and the public started groaning

And the Super 8s are the golden goose and the timing is essential
But if Kildare go down the legal route delays will be unmissable
The CLG head are in a bind they don't know what to do
The clock is ticking as we speak this is a huge issue

So Kildare have had a change of fate even if they lose on Sat
Because  the energy unleashed you cannot defend against that
And CLG, the useless hoors, they really need some insight
You cannot force the Lilies into something  that is shite.


So Horse Lawlor's goal was not the end, it was not the end at all
The Kildare lads got time to fight both on and off the ball
They discovered balls they had all over the county of Kildare
And they united around a great oul line- Newbridge or nowhere

[seafoid]

Seán Moran: GAA correct not to respond to Kildare ultimatum

The one imperative in the whole sorry episode from Croke Park's perspective is that they can't have a county wantonly refusing to abide by its directives in relation to fixtures. Setting such a precedent would lead to anarchy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-gaa-correct-not-to-respond-to-kildare-ultimatum-1.3544935?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Not surprising from him but the GAA has a bigger interest in the form of the Super 8 to defend  and Kildare can blow up the timing.
So the GAA has to protect that and it can't by putting the foot down

This is all about expectation management. And the GAA did not tell any county that CP could be used if HQ fancied it.
It is exactly the same with kids. You canot discipline them properly if you don't manage expectations

[Owenmoresider]

If you take the emotion out of it, hard to do I accept, the GAA decided Newbridge could not host the game on health and safety grounds, with an all ticket capacity of C.8,000. Mayo take somewhere in the region of 10,000 fans with them which means that 60% of their fans can't be accommodated.The potential for a sizeable number to turn up with out tickets is there. Kildare were asked to nominate an alternative venue, as Cavan did with Brewster Park but like the spoilt brat refused to do so. Irrespective of TV rights county teams would be nowhere without the fans and the GAA is right to try and ensure as many as possible see the game. If Kildare had drawn Clare there wouldn't have been an issue but Mayo travel in numbers. at this stage of the qualifiers I don't think the luck of the draw should determine where a game is played, in my opinion. Any GAA player should feel privileged to get to play in Croke Park and as top billing as well in front of Tyrone/Cavan!

In case you missed it I'll remind you that there is no entitlement to getting a ticket for a match and just because Mayo have lots of fans doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Furthermore even if you have a season ticket it STILL doesn't automatically entitle you to a ticket. Here is section 42 of the current season ticket Ts&Cs
"In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture"

Capacity in Newbridge is a red herring.

Its not a red herring it is relevant and fans put money into the GAA. What always strikes me about us in the GAA we always gice off, about the CB, Croke Park, the GPA etc... but it is a democratic organisation, it can be changed by a majority vote. You just have to want the change enough to persuade the CB, PC and Congress.

You actually believe that? The rejection of the transparency regarding votes at Congress blew that out of the water. So many hurdles to jump and then at the end HQ only need to manipulate 150 or so delegates, a mixture of the ambitious, the easily led and those who just want to keep their cosy existence intact and will do the powers-that-be's bidding.

[Itchy]

Someone told me today that if Kildare don't show up in Croke Park then they will also be expelled from the championship next year. Is that true?

[straightred]

We've now reached page 60 and we're nearly all still in group think that Kildare is right and the GAA ( and Mayo with some )is wrong.
Why didn't KCB fight their case with the 4Cs/HQ on Monday morning after they were asked to nominate amother venue?
Instead it appears they refused to engage and then went into the public domain and painted themselves into a corner from which there's no retreat?
Not much leadership or negotiation  skills there.
As it stands they're going to refuse to fulfil an official fixture, get thrown out of the competition then presumably start a long drawn out appeals process and fûck up the Summer for 11 other Counties and their supporters and of course all the club players in those Counties.

All because they have a dump of a County ground.

I expect loads of abuse for this post

Maybe they did ? Maybe they simply looked at the rules and decided that they were doing nothing wrong and that common sense would prevail. The GAA then tried to bounce them into something and they are refusing to comply. Good on them.

But there's no maybe, they didn't. They were asked to nominate an alternate venue, they refused so the game was fixed for croker

Now you're going around in circles. They've already explained why they didn't. As far as they are concerned they didn't need to. I've seen nothing concrete to lead me to believe they are wrong in this regard. We've had lots of hearsay and opinions but when it comes down to the actually reality my belief is that the GAA have actually broken their own rules. I also believe they did it unwittingly and that its not about the money etc but in many ways that doesn't matter any more. Kildare had home advantage and it was taken off them. For me the deal breaker is that the guards agreed to them hosting the match. As far as I'm concerned their H&S concerns trump the GAAs H&S concerns.

The capacity doesn't come into it either. events are oversubscribed all the time and the GAA have actually catered for that in their season ticket conditions. Understandably they want to accommodate them but they don't have to.

The GAA messed up here and this stable door will be well and truly bolted in the future to stop this happening again. The rules should have been written in a way that gave the GAA the authority to do what they did. Had this been the case Kildare would have moved the match because they had to.

[Jinxy]

I think Sean Moran is 100% right about HQ's primary concern here being the precedent Kildare might set and the effect this could have on the CCCC.
Not in the context of counties just randomly deciding not to turn up for scheduled fixtures, but in the sense that smaller counties will decide they won't be pushed around to fit in with external demands such as accommodating travelling support, TV coverage etc.

[Jinxy]

Someone told me today that if Kildare don't show up in Croke Park then they will also be expelled from the championship next year. Is that true?

Would this rule them out of the O'Byrne Cup?

[armaghniac]

In case you missed it I'll remind you that there is no entitlement to getting a ticket for a match and just because Mayo have lots of fans doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Why on earth would the GAA want to stop people going to games to pander to showboating? Smallish counties like Fermanagh and Sligo have decent grounds and even when Armagh didn't have the Athletic grounds we were able to host a qualifier with Donegal in Crossmaglen. Being able to go to games is an important part of the GAA, not being allowed go and being forced to pay for Sky to watch a game is not good for the GAA.

Kildare seem to be using tactics drawn from the British Brexit negotiators.

However the GAA should perhaps have set out this in the rules more clearly, so that it would be discussed before the draw.

[Donnellys Hollow]

If you take the emotion out of it, hard to do I accept, the GAA decided Newbridge could not host the game on health and safety grounds, with an all ticket capacity of C.8,000. Mayo take somewhere in the region of 10,000 fans with them which means that 60% of their fans can't be accommodated.The potential for a sizeable number to turn up with out tickets is there. Kildare were asked to nominate an alternative venue, as Cavan did with Brewster Park but like the spoilt brat refused to do so. Irrespective of TV rights county teams would be nowhere without the fans and the GAA is right to try and ensure as many as possible see the game. If Kildare had drawn Clare there wouldn't have been an issue but Mayo travel in numbers. at this stage of the qualifiers I don't think the luck of the draw should determine where a game is played, in my opinion. Any GAA player should feel privileged to get to play in Croke Park and as top billing as well in front of Tyrone/Cavan!

No . . . that is all bullshit!

This sentiment of "ah sure the lads love a day out in Croke Park" is bullshit. Kildare have played in Croke Park plenty of times. Research has shown that playing a match at home is worth a 4 point advantage to the home team. #

With the professionalism going on in todays game why would you be looking for the extra 5% from your diet/S&C/tactics etc. only to throw away a genuine advantage to your team when presented just because you get a day out in Croke Park?

Kildare have to hold firm and the GAA need to come up with solution. There is no god given right that Mayo fans are allowed tickets to the game if the capacity doesn't allow it!

Nice argument...bullshit! Of course fans are important and not just Mayo fans, all fans and they spend money travelling, on season tickets, Supporters Clubs etc and deserve the chance to be there. The GAA is bigger than county players on that I'm sure we can all agree.

If fans are so important then are Kildare fans not entitled to go to a game in our own county? I've travelled to grounds outside our own county for our last three games. I travelled to Mayo for a third round qualifier two years ago for a 7 o'clock throw in when Mayo were drawn at home. It was outlined before the draw that the first county drawn out were entitled to a home game unless the fixture was Div 1/Div 2 vs Div 3/Div 4. That's not the case here.

Kildare were drawn out first.
The ground can comfortably cater for the numbers of those entitled to a ticket (as it did in the league when the same number of season ticket holders existed).
This game should be in Newbridge.
The GAA thought Kildare would just piss and moan about going to Croke Park but ultimately relent. They were wrong and now they're up shit creek without a paddle.

[Solo_run]

Someone told me today that if Kildare don't show up in Croke Park then they will also be expelled from the championship next year. Is that true?

I am calling it now - Dublin to get any bye in the Leinster Championship if Kildare are expelled.

[straightred]

In case you missed it I'll remind you that there is no entitlement to getting a ticket for a match and just because Mayo have lots of fans doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Why on earth would the GAA want to stop people going to games to pander to showboating? Smallish counties like Fermanagh and Sligo have decent grounds and even when Armagh didn't have the Athletic grounds we were able to host a qualifier with Donegal in Crossmaglen. Being able to go to games is an important part of the GAA, not being allowed go and being forced to pay for Sky to watch a game is not good for the GAA.

Kildare seem to be using tactics drawn from the British Brexit negotiators.

However the GAA should perhaps have set out this in the rules more clearly, so that it would be discussed before the draw.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm simply pointing out that the GAA have covered the angle of season tickets and capacity. Your last line is the nub of the issue. Had this been done properly we wouldn't have this debacle.