Tyrone v Dublin - The return of the Jedi

[Fat Angry Motorist]

A couple of posters mentioned this after the game yesterday but it needs repeating, i don't think this Tyrone side have the bottle and you can't coach that.  They kicked away a qtr final last year v. Mayo when they should have won but crumbled in front of the posts.  Yesterday they never laid a hand on the Dubs and were pressurised into individual errors that they didn't make against the Ulster sides, they rolled over yesterday.  I think that's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.  We also saw that players like C McCann, Bradley, McCurry, Sludden, McGeary simply aren't good enough.

The only downside for the Dubs was that a big section of their supporters can't recognise their players.

[Il Bomber Destro]

A couple of posters mentioned this after the game yesterday but it needs repeating, i don't think this Tyrone side have the bottle and you can't coach that.  They kicked away a qtr final last year v. Mayo when they should have won but crumbled in front of the posts.  Yesterday they never laid a hand on the Dubs and were pressurised into individual errors that they didn't make against the Ulster sides, they rolled over yesterday.  I think that's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.  We also saw that players like C McCann, Bradley, McCurry, Sludden, McGeary simply aren't good enough.

The only downside for the Dubs was that a big section of their supporters can't recognise their players.

I'd agree with all that with exception to Sludden who I think is a fantastic player who could grace any team in the country.

[BarryBreensBandage]

The lack of intensity from Tyrone yesterday was the most disappointing thing.

The goal for a start was as a result of Sludden overhitting a simple hand pass, Dublin breaking and McNamee making the most pathetic attempt you'd see to stop O'Callaghan. If you look at the contrast with Dublin yesterday, they were hunting in packs, they were checking runs and niggling at their markers, the rare time a man got into a dangerous area he was stopped fairly or unfairly, but he was stopped. There was none of that from Tyrone yesterday which made it all the more disappointing.

Tyrone this year have been retreating back and then hitting teams on the 45 and turning them over, today was disgraceful. Dublin were allowed work the ball into the 30 yard line without a glove on them. Andrews, Rock and Mannion etc were all allowed to win ball in there without a glove laid on them and the lack of pressure applied was baffling. Was it down to tactics of the players afraid of their lives of what Dublin could do to them. Probably a bit of both.

The mentality of the side was all wrong today. The tactics on the Dublin kickouts were disgraceful, when we went to push up on the kickouts we were still leaving a man completely unmarked in a pocket of space between midfield and half back. When you push up on kickouts you have to go man for man on everyone, we didn't - we left one guy free all the time.

Colm Cavanagh battled gallantly, took a few great scores but outside of that it was fairly bleak. A rethink is needed for sure.

Good post.

I don't think Dublin are as far ahead as yesterday suggests. Tyrone fell on their own sword, and played into the hands of Dublin, much the same way as Down (Tyrone), Armagh (Tyrone) and Monaghan (Dublin) did.

Handing the current champions that much possession was asking for trouble.

This meant Tyrone were always chasing the game, feeding off sporadic ventures into Dublin's half, and allowing Dublin to build their game.

Chasing a game is more exhaustive than leading or competing in a game; that, for me, is why Tyrone looked sharper than Down, Dublin looked sharper than Tyrone etc.

What disappointed me in the latter matches this year when huge scores were racked up against Down, Armagh, Monaghan and Tyrone was that not once did the management think, this is not working, lets go man to man for ten minutes, see what happens. Or something different.  Instead they stuck to plan A even though it was failing.
I have to hand it to Dublin, their skill and intensity was awesome, but you usually see that when teams are allowed to play and are on top.

I suppose the fact they are going for three in a row marks them out as the team of their generation, but I would like to see their intensity and game management matched in the final, otherwise, it will be a very handy All Ireland they pick up.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Just a word of appreciation to the Dublin lads for their acknowledgement of Seán Cavanagh at the game's conclusion, sláinte.

I already did that for you at the game's end, in the absence of any expressed gratitude from the Tyronies here.

We can truly say that Sean tried his best to live the truism of St.Francis of Assisi to the fullest.
"It is in diving that we are born to eternal life"

We don't need no Monaghan upstart as a proxy sentiment-expresser, so we don't!

[Gael85]

Dublin played more defensive back in 2014 we could been seeing the first 5 in a row team here. learned their lesson the hard way

No they didn't. It was there lack of defensive shape which let Donegal run through them in the second half. They have have been playing a sweeper since that.

They are playing with their centre back playing defensively which doesn't mean playing a sweeper. It's not like moving a midfielder/forward back to defence

Dublin had 15 men in their own half many times yesterday. The notion that they don't play defensively is a joke. They are an incredibly talented, well rounded, immensely athletic side.

Who says Dublin don't play defensively? We get the 13/14 behind ball and 15 in some cases yesterday when don't have possession like every team in the country.

[Fat Angry Motorist]

A couple of posters mentioned this after the game yesterday but it needs repeating, i don't think this Tyrone side have the bottle and you can't coach that.  They kicked away a qtr final last year v. Mayo when they should have won but crumbled in front of the posts.  Yesterday they never laid a hand on the Dubs and were pressurised into individual errors that they didn't make against the Ulster sides, they rolled over yesterday.  I think that's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.  We also saw that players like C McCann, Bradley, McCurry, Sludden, McGeary simply aren't good enough.

The only downside for the Dubs was that a big section of their supporters can't recognise their players.

I'd agree with all that with exception to Sludden who I think is a fantastic player who could grace any team in the country.

Take your point about Sludden, yeah he's had a good year but do you really think he'd make the Dubs panel? Being honest I'd say that only Harte, S Cavanagh and maybe McCarron all at their tip top best would get in the squad.

[Il Bomber Destro]

A couple of posters mentioned this after the game yesterday but it needs repeating, i don't think this Tyrone side have the bottle and you can't coach that.  They kicked away a qtr final last year v. Mayo when they should have won but crumbled in front of the posts.  Yesterday they never laid a hand on the Dubs and were pressurised into individual errors that they didn't make against the Ulster sides, they rolled over yesterday.  I think that's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.  We also saw that players like C McCann, Bradley, McCurry, Sludden, McGeary simply aren't good enough.

The only downside for the Dubs was that a big section of their supporters can't recognise their players.

I'd agree with all that with exception to Sludden who I think is a fantastic player who could grace any team in the country.

Take your point about Sludden, yeah he's had a good year but do you really think he'd make the Dubs panel? Being honest I'd say that only Harte, S Cavanagh and maybe McCarron all at their tip top best would get in the squad.

Do I think Sludden would make the Dublin squad?

Definitely.

[tonto1888]

A couple of posters mentioned this after the game yesterday but it needs repeating, i don't think this Tyrone side have the bottle and you can't coach that.  They kicked away a qtr final last year v. Mayo when they should have won but crumbled in front of the posts.  Yesterday they never laid a hand on the Dubs and were pressurised into individual errors that they didn't make against the Ulster sides, they rolled over yesterday.  I think that's the biggest hurdle they have to get over.  We also saw that players like C McCann, Bradley, McCurry, Sludden, McGeary simply aren't good enough.

The only downside for the Dubs was that a big section of their supporters can't recognise their players.

I'd agree with all that with exception to Sludden who I think is a fantastic player who could grace any team in the country.

I'd say Sludden, and the performance of your U17s was the only positive for you

[imtommygunn]

I do think you are harsh on bradley. He doesn't stand a chance with that system.

While mulgrew wasn't great yesterday i actually think he is on of few you have who has the athleticism to, eventually, match up to the dubs. He is only 19 so will strengthen massively over the next few years as long as he keeps mobility.

Meyler actually looked to have the athleticism too. He adds a lot more than geary.

You need to find the best place for mattie donnelly. Is he a forward, a midfielder or a back? I would imagine the latter? He can do a job against worse teams in positions which aren't his best but maybe not the dubs etc.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I do think you are harsh on bradley. He doesn't stand a chance with that system.

While mulgrew wasn't great yesterday i actually think he is on of few you have who has the athleticism to, eventually, match up to the dubs. He is only 19 so will strengthen massively over the next few years as long as he keeps mobility.

Meyler actually looked to have the athleticism too. He adds a lot more than geary.

You need to find the best place for mattie donnelly. Is he a forward, a midfielder or a back? I would imagine the latter? He can do a job against worse teams in positions which aren't his best but maybe not the dubs etc.

What system does he have a chance with?

[skeog]

Mattie looks like an MMA fighter does he do martial arts.

[seafoid]

Tyrone had a great run there but some defeats are terminal.  Great teams have lives. They are born and die. The 03-08 team died a while ago. Tyrone people thought Tyrone 2.0 was the spit . It isn't.  It doesn't really matter what the root cause was. Tyrone have to go back, back back to the start and fight to get back to the top.

God love ye .

What I couldn't get over was the belief Tyrone were somehow immune to football entropy. That is magical thinking .
Do Tyrone posters ever read what Down or Meath posters write when their counties are playing? Down and Meath are 2 great houses of GAA but they have been ploughing the fields of mediocrity for more years than they care to admit. 
The great Meath team of the 80s/90's finally gave up the ghost in 2001. They did reinvent themselves to win a second dose of all Irelands but it is very hard. And if you don't have the players you accept it. Even though it is shite. Sometimes you might have a good few players but no luck. The Kildare lads can offer counselling.

It must be a big land for people like Bomber. I imagine. You might see Tyrone winning nothing in Croke Park for 20 years. It is in the range of shite .

The Tipp manager said something great earlier in the season

" I Suppose I have the benefit of being around a long time lads and I've been on the receiving end of this quite a bit. You come and you do your best and that's all you can do. Nobody knows the results of these games because other than that we wouldn't be as passionate about it, it wouldn't mean as much to any of us.
Our boys put their lives and souls into this. They really, really did their best. You can only come up and do your best and it didn't work out. We were beaten by a really, really good team"

Tipp hurlers are much better than Harte''s team. They still lost.
GAA is hard most of the time. But when a few good players come along and they do their punishment and they gain experience and they get better and they beat one of the big teams and they learn from each loss..you live for that. Because they just.might win an All Ireland. And nothing compares to winning the All Ireland.

What made 2003 so great was how hard the challenge was Frank McGuigan was good enough. But it is not always possible for the fellas like him to win.Everything came together in 2003. That was really important for the future.

In German they say wo Helden nicht vergessen werden kommen immer neuen. Where heroes are remembered there will be new ones. It is like a version of mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí.
The end of illusion is hard. But Tyrone will rise again.  Just not soon.

I have a lot of time for Mickey Harte. TheY might decide to get rid of hIm. It won't change the dynamic.
.

[Il Bomber Destro]

It must be a big land for people like Bomber. I imagine. You might see Tyrone winning nothing in Croke Park for 20 years. It is in the range of shite .

Ah no, we'll never drop to the levels that Galway football currently has.

[twohands!!!]

The lack of intensity from Tyrone yesterday was the most disappointing thing.

The goal for a start was as a result of Sludden overhitting a simple hand pass, Dublin breaking and McNamee making the most pathetic attempt you'd see to stop O'Callaghan. If you look at the contrast with Dublin yesterday, they were hunting in packs, they were checking runs and niggling at their markers, the rare time a man got into a dangerous area he was stopped fairly or unfairly, but he was stopped. There was none of that from Tyrone yesterday which made it all the more disappointing.

Tyrone this year have been retreating back and then hitting teams on the 45 and turning them over, today was disgraceful. Dublin were allowed work the ball into the 30 yard line without a glove on them. Andrews, Rock and Mannion etc were all allowed to win ball in there without a glove laid on them and the lack of pressure applied was baffling. Was it down to tactics of the players afraid of their lives of what Dublin could do to them. Probably a bit of both.

The mentality of the side was all wrong today. The tactics on the Dublin kickouts were disgraceful, when we went to push up on the kickouts we were still leaving a man completely unmarked in a pocket of space between midfield and half back. When you push up on kickouts you have to go man for man on everyone, we didn't - we left one guy free all the time.

Colm Cavanagh battled gallantly, took a few great scores but outside of that it was fairly bleak. A rethink is needed for sure.

Good post.

I don't think Dublin are as far ahead as yesterday suggests. Tyrone fell on their own sword, and played into the hands of Dublin, much the same way as Down (Tyrone), Armagh (Tyrone) and Monaghan (Dublin) did.

Handing the current champions that much possession was asking for trouble.

This meant Tyrone were always chasing the game, feeding off sporadic ventures into Dublin's half, and allowing Dublin to build their game.

Chasing a game is more exhaustive than leading or competing in a game; that, for me, is why Tyrone looked sharper than Down, Dublin looked sharper than Tyrone etc.

What disappointed me in the latter matches this year when huge scores were racked up against Down, Armagh, Monaghan and Tyrone was that not once did the management think, this is not working, lets go man to man for ten minutes, see what happens. Or something different.  Instead they stuck to plan A even though it was failing.
I have to hand it to Dublin, their skill and intensity was awesome, but you usually see that when teams are allowed to play and are on top.

I suppose the fact they are going for three in a row marks them out as the team of their generation, but I would like to see their intensity and game management matched in the final, otherwise, it will be a very handy All Ireland they pick up.

If you compare Dublin's approach to a lot of the other sides Tyrone played this year, Dublin had their approach correct in terms of dealing with Tyrone's defence - Dublin's major tactic was simply not to get caught in possession and allow the Tyrone players to employ their swarm tackle where the 2nd/3rd player in help to bottle up the player/force the turn-over.  Dublin simply didn't give Tyrone players the chance to get close enough to stand up the Dublin player and swarm the player in possession - it was relatively easy for Dublin to do this as all they had to do was keep the ball moving. They used the full width of the pitch and were patient enough to wait for gaps to open up. This was why it looked as if Tyrone were chasing shadows in terms of applying pressure - Dublin knew that you can always move the ball faster than a player can move - A lot of the other teams Tyrone came up against had neither the composure/smarts to do this and some were daft enough to do the completely wrong thing - constantly running through the middle, repeatedly taking the ball into contact situations (every time an opposition player comes near enough to tackle there's a possibility of a turnover) Once Tyrone were denied the ability to use their strongest weapon their entire gameplan was always short odds to crumble.

Also in spite of the weakness of the opposition Dublin have played so far in the championship, pretty much all the sides they have faced were using an approach not that dissimilar to Tyrone's approach in terms of having men back and trying to hit them on the counter - the question is will Mayo pose them some difficulties by adopting a more positive approach?

[Gael85]

The lack of intensity from Tyrone yesterday was the most disappointing thing.

The goal for a start was as a result of Sludden overhitting a simple hand pass, Dublin breaking and McNamee making the most pathetic attempt you'd see to stop O'Callaghan. If you look at the contrast with Dublin yesterday, they were hunting in packs, they were checking runs and niggling at their markers, the rare time a man got into a dangerous area he was stopped fairly or unfairly, but he was stopped. There was none of that from Tyrone yesterday which made it all the more disappointing.

Tyrone this year have been retreating back and then hitting teams on the 45 and turning them over, today was disgraceful. Dublin were allowed work the ball into the 30 yard line without a glove on them. Andrews, Rock and Mannion etc were all allowed to win ball in there without a glove laid on them and the lack of pressure applied was baffling. Was it down to tactics of the players afraid of their lives of what Dublin could do to them. Probably a bit of both.

The mentality of the side was all wrong today. The tactics on the Dublin kickouts were disgraceful, when we went to push up on the kickouts we were still leaving a man completely unmarked in a pocket of space between midfield and half back. When you push up on kickouts you have to go man for man on everyone, we didn't - we left one guy free all the time.

Colm Cavanagh battled gallantly, took a few great scores but outside of that it was fairly bleak. A rethink is needed for sure.

In fairness I think McNamee picked up a knock when Paddy Andrews tackled him after a couple minutes into game. Probably wasn't right after that for a few minutes