Tyrone v Dublin - The return of the Jedi

[Mikhailov]

Anyone know where Peter Donnelly was today?

Water boy along Cusack stand side. Probably looking on in complete bewilderment !!

[From the Bunker]

Ah shure we'll turn up for this away game and fulfil the fixture. Shure its the least we can do?

[smelmoth]

Hopefully this will see the end of the total defence crap.

It probably signals the end of any team playing like that and being incapable of playing any other way winning Sam but that would be the height of it. Still a cadre of poor coaches out there in the county, club and underage structures who default to these tactics. Personal job security trumps entertainment, the good of the game, the chances of the team realising it potential and the long term health of the club/county

[Throw ball]

Firstly congrats to the Dubs today not only a magnificent footballing side but some of the best supporters in the business...

I am almost glad that Tyrone and more so mickeys system has taking an unmercifull tanking. I hope that this is the final nail in the coffin.  I have followed Tyrone for over 35 years now. This is a county which could always produce some of the greatest talents of the game. It is the county that produced Iggy Jones Frankie Donnelly Frank McGuigan Peter Canavan Stephen O Neill. Players of the highest calibre.  The cancer which inflicts this county is the negative rubbish that is fostered in Garvaghy over the last 10 years. Young players on development squads are prevented from playing attacking football instead encourage to play the % system. Our senior teams ape the dross played at county level and you have great clubs like Carmen Ardboe Dromore Killycloghrr and Errigal playing the same defensive systems that make our games unwatchable. I really hope that there is a root and branch review of the direction that this county is being dragged down and the required changes made before we are left with nothing but robot's.

I have to agree with most of this.

I think also it is interesting that when Peter Donnelly was with Cavan they had a number of Ulster under 21 wins but couldn't do anything in All Ireland series.  Tyrone now seem to be following a similar path.

As an Armagh man it is expected that some Tyrone ones will point to what the match today says about Armagh.  Personally this year I would prefer to be an Armagh supporter than a Tyrone one. It seems both teams have the same chance of winning an All Ireland - nil - but at least Armagh gave it a go in their games. We go into a new year having seen progress , been entertained and having hope improvement will continue. Most Tyrone games this year have been hard to watch - championship matches - and they are left with more questions than answers.

[Captain Obvious]

Tyrone pride themselves on systems and you can have all systems you want but you won't beat Dublin without getting in their faces and under their skin. Tyrone just stood off made it too easy for Dublin. Mayo will not make it as easy for Dublin!

[Captain Obvious]

Firstly congrats to the Dubs today not only a magnificent footballing side but some of the best supporters in the business...

I am almost glad that Tyrone and more so mickeys system has taking an unmercifull tanking. I hope that this is the final nail in the coffin.  I have followed Tyrone for over 35 years now. This is a county which could always produce some of the greatest talents of the game. It is the county that produced Iggy Jones Frankie Donnelly Frank McGuigan Peter Canavan Stephen O Neill. Players of the highest calibre.  The cancer which inflicts this county is the negative rubbish that is fostered in Garvaghy over the last 10 years. Young players on development squads are prevented from playing attacking football instead encourage to play the % system. Our senior teams ape the dross played at county level and you have great clubs like Carmen Ardboe Dromore Killycloghrr and Errigal playing the same defensive systems that make our games unwatchable. I really hope that there is a root and branch review of the direction that this county is being dragged down and the required changes made before we are left with nothing but robot's.

The Tyrone U17s showed plenty of attacking ability today.

[ONeill]

Tyrone pride themselves on systems and you can have all systems you want but you won't beat Dublin without getting in their faces and under their skin. Tyrone just stood off made it too easy for Dublin. Mayo will not make it as easy for Dublin!

Yep. I read earlier in the week about Musgy saying Connolly would get close treatment. He was lost in the past. Tyrone just aren't programmed to have a bit of initiative like that, be it a poke in the eye, knee on the back, hand on the balls etc.

[trileacman]

Tyrone pride themselves on systems and you can have all systems you want but you won't beat Dublin without getting in their faces and under their skin. Tyrone just stood off made it too easy for Dublin. Mayo will not make it as easy for Dublin!

Yep. I read earlier in the week about Musgy saying Connolly would get close treatment. He was lost in the past. Tyrone just aren't programmed to have a bit of initiative like that, be it a poke in the eye, knee on the back, hand on the balls etc.

Yeah funny that it's missing. I hated it when we done it though, there was a lot of it in the 2014-15 years and we always got heavily lambasted for it. Ironic really.

[WT4E]

Let me first say Dublin are awesome - far better than I give them credit for!

Today was so disappointing because what I witnessed was the fact that Dublin are everything Tyrone use to be and ought to be:

Dublin played with talent (e.g. C O'Callaghan goal)
They played with intensity (e.g. Mannions tackling in defense)
They played on the edge (J Small in your face dirty cynical job on petey)
They played with variation (when they went ahead they played the best most boring blanket defense I have ever seen)
They showed their depth (They have the second best forward line in the country on the bench)

Tomas O'Se was right on Sunday game 3 in a row is not a worry this could be 6 or 7!!!!

Plus are Tyrone content to be the best of the second tier in Ireland? Cause thats what we are and whilst i believe the individuals are talented  the direction is wrong.

[Mikhailov]

Let me first say Dublin are awesome - far better than I give them credit for!

Today was so disappointing because what I witnessed was the fact that Dublin are everything Tyrone use to be and ought to be:

Dublin played with talent (e.g. C O'Callaghan goal)
They played with intensity (e.g. Mannions tackling in defense)
They played on the edge (J Small in your face dirty cynical job on petey)
They played with variation (when they went ahead they played the best most boring blanket defense I have ever seen)
They showed their depth (They have the second best forward line in the country on the bench)

Tomas O'Se was right on Sunday game 3 in a row is not a worry this could be 6 or 7!!!!

Plus are Tyrone content to be the best of the second tier in Ireland? Cause thats what we are and whilst i believe the individuals are talented  the direction is wrong.

Good post Tone

[trileacman]

It's easy to say the direction is wrong but Dublin beat Kerry 2 years ago just as convincly as that today but by a smaller margin. Show me the team/tactics that can beat Dublin and I'll happily follow them. Mayo have a fabulous marking/runnning back line but we don't just have defenders to that calibre.

Our no.1 priority now must be to develop proper man markers who can stand on their own two feet. Our fb line is far to lightweight. I'd build any defensive fb line now around hampsey

[WT4E]

It's easy to say the direction is wrong but Dublin beat Kerry 2 years ago just as convincly as that today but by a smaller margin. Show me the team/tactics that can beat Dublin and I'll happily follow them. Mayo have a fabulous marking/runnning back line but we don't just have defenders to that calibre.

Our no.1 priority now must be to develop proper man markers who can stand on their own two feet. Our fb line is far to lightweight. I'd build any defensive fb line now around hampsey

What i'm saying is i think because of our style of play we are behind Kerry and Mayo - whilst I think we match up to them man to man quite well our players don't have freedom. Dublin is a different case no one matches up to them man to man IMO.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

First up congratulations to Dublin. A great team who won easily and playing well within themselves. I'd love to see Mayo win Sam but certainly wouldn't begrudge the Dubs another title.

Secondly, thanks and all the best to Sean Cavanagh. Tremendous footballer and servant to Tyrone. Not the way he would have wanted to finish but he can look back on much better days. A Tyrone legend.

As for the game itself, I've long argued that the system on which this current Tyrone team has been built is flawed. I couldn't see where the optimism from lots of Tyrone supporters on here was coming from. The system hasn't beaten anybody Tyrone couldn't beat anyway playing a more positive style. The only reason you would adopt this style would be if it could overcome sides who are more talented. But it doesn't, and it never has. Tyrone don't even play it particularly well, kicking away possession and all too often showing a lack of composure. The only game this summer where they were truly clinical was Donegal. Lots of poor decision making in the other games, but they got away with it before today. Tyrone would struggle to beat Dublin regardless but they give themselves no chance playing this way.

This rebuild was all about competing with the best. When put to the test today it was shown up to be a failure. The team had no idea what to do when their all too predictable game plan failed. The rebuild has been based on a fatally flawed system. Effectively a waste of time.

[The Hill is Blue]

I can't call Dublin v Tyrone but I will anyway. I think Tyrone will win by one point.

My feeling is that Dublin are being overrated going into this one.

For me, Dublin are an easier team to read in terms of form than Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone because they can sustain a much longer peak due to having far greater squad depth than anybody else and also due to geographical advantages - ie. none of their players live outside Dublin, which is a small county anyway.

I believe Dublin have not been at the level of previous years and struggled through much of the league, ending up losing the final to Kerry, whereas last year they drove a coach and horses through a much stronger Kerry team in the final.

The championship has taught us nothing about Dublin yet.

People might argue that it has taught us nothing about Tyrone, but it has - they are putting away teams with absolute ease, whereas they weren't in previous years.

There is no head to head championship form guide to go on.

But when two full strength or near full strength teams really go at each other in the league, it is a guide. Mayo and Kerry proves that. Mayo and Dublin proves that. Dublin and Kerry proves that. Dublin and Tyrone have gone at each other full throttle on five occasions since Jim Gavin took over. One point separates them on aggregate. These games weren't played in the muck on a provincial pitch - four were in Croke Park, with the other one on a perfect pitch in Omagh in glorious April sunshine. And at least three were with considerably inferior Tyrone teams than will line out tomorrow.

Only a fool would disregard those results.

Not only have this Dublin team never hammered Kerry in the championship but they haven't hammered any team in an All-Ireland semi-final or final in this decade.

In every single semi-final or final they have played bar one (Kerry 2015), the opposition was in a potentially winning position at a key stage of the second half.

Dublin have conceded a glut of goals in semi-finals, and tend to concede gluts of scores in a short space of time in key matches. 2-4 v Kerry last year, 1-4 v Mayo in 2015, 3-6 to 0-3 in less than 20 minutes in 2014, three goals in 14 minutes against Kerry in 2013, 0-9 to 0-1 against Mayo in 18 minutes in 2012.

If they do anything like that today, they're toast.

Dublin's strength is obviously their collective, but when I look through the team on an individual basis, it looks weaker than it did in 2013 to 2015.

Lowndes, O'Callaghan, Rock, Small, these players can be got at.

For me some of the older hands aren't as good as they were.

Kilkenny and Fenton are Dublin's two key attacking men. I expect Tyrone to be gunning for them with a vengeance from before the first whistle.

Lowndes is there to track Tiernan McCann. Dublin are haunted by the memory of Ryan McHugh running riot in 2014. But if I was Jim Gavin, I'd stick Philly McMahon on McCann.

Tyrone have plan A and plan A. The thing is that that plan A is very, very difficult to negate, as those teams who fell victim to peak Donegal found out, and Tyrone end up playing Plan A the way they like while their opponent plays in a way they aren't used to. Tactics in Gaelic football are still rudimentary enough in world sporting terms and teams often don't have a great ability to adapt if taken out of their tactical comfort zone. Mayo too Kerry out of theirs and Kerry had no answer.

Dublin played a much more defensive structure in 2011 against Donegal, basically keeping six defenders back at all times.

That formation stopped Donegal from scoring goals (though McFadden should have got one), but Dublin found it terribly difficult to break down and thus we got a dirge.

I expect Dublin's approach will be a sort of half way house between the cautious approach of 2011 and the gung ho approach of 2014.

The jury is out on whether Tyrone are better than Donegal 2012 who had the system down to a ridiculously fine art, but they are better than Donegal 2011.

The first 15 minutes will set the tone. If one team gets significantly ahead, ie. 4 to 5 points, the expected pattern could go out the window. But remember Donegal were 5 behind Dublin in 2014 and stuck firm to their plan and prevailed. If neither does, as I expect, it will probably turn into a dogfight with maybe somewhere in the region of 12-14 points being a winning total.

Basically, Tyrone will try to unsettle Dublin so much that Dublin's normal attacking game, their support play and angles of running break down.

Getting through such a defence is a desperate mental grind. I'd be very doubtful if Con O'Callaghan and Dean Rock have the experience in the case of the former and the ability in the case of the latter to do it.

The other alternative is to kick points from distance as Flynn and Connolly did in 2014. But Flynn won't be starting, and even if Connolly does, there are questions about his readiness.

I don't think anybody else on the Dublin team has the ability to kick those sort of points from long distance. And even if they do, the radar can only last for so long. Those Flynn and Connolly points dried up beyond 30 minutes in 2014.

So Dublin will be relying on Andrews and Mannion close to goal, Kilkenny and Fenton to create and McCarthy and McCaffrey to try and make runs which lose defenders.

Peak Bernard Brogan was brilliant at sticking to his task against that kind of defence. But he's no longer peak Bernard Brogan.

McManamon will have a big role off the bench. O'Gara will I expect be a disaster if he sees game time. I just can't see him making any headway at all.

At the back I have a hunch that Cian O'Sullivan is playing at a level below his best. Possibly Philly McMahon too.

That isn't to say there aren't doubts surrounding some Tyrone players. Aidan McCrory and Conall McCann are two. And I'd have doubts whether Sean Cavanagh is till up to it and how Mark Bradley's lack of height and physical strength could be exposed, although he's a beautiful footballer.

What Tyrone might be lacking today is a Jason Doherty type, an outlet ball.

If you have that, you effectively double your attacking options - more than double them in fact - you can go long or you can use the running game and the opposition can't focus on or the other.

Doherty coming into form has probably been the primary reason for Mayo's resurgence.

Mark Bradley is a sort of outlet but he generally plays too close to goal to be a real one. Maybe he might come deeper today?

Tyrone to win 1-11 to 0-13, but I've no confidence in that prediction. This is anybody's game and a replay is a distinct possibility.

Very astute analysis 

[heffo]

Thanks be to Jaysus that's over.