Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
54 (49.1%)
No
48 (43.6%)
Undecided
8 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 110

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 5523 times)

Esmarelda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 837
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 03:08:17 PM »
I agree completely with AZ's penultimate post. The topic is primarily media-driven.

Having said that, I think the best chance of a change being made is to provide a route from any second or third division championship back into the race for the All-Ireland.

Maroon Manc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1488
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 03:13:40 PM »
I realise that many of the managers didn't actually state they wanted a B championship but the sentiment amongst many of them that there wasn't enough games.

Entry to round 4 qualifier or even a quarter final place for winners of such a competition should satisfy the needs of all counties taking part.




Fuzzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4234
  • Aughabrack (Tyrone Not Cork)
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 03:27:12 PM »
That's what I said AZ. People are saying we need a 2 or 3 tier championship but it's usually just games involving Kerry and Dublin in their provinces that are completely one sided. Mayo rarely hammer anyone in Connacht though Tyrone have wiped the floor with Derry and Donegal so far in Ulster.

Remove those teams from the provincials and all of a sudden it's quite interesting again.
Kildare, W-Meath or Meath would be rejuvenated if they won Leinster and went into the 1/4 finals with that win under their belt. Kildare in 2010 was the last time a Leinster team got to the semis besides the Dubs.

In the last 6 years Dublin and Mayo have been in the semis every year with Kerry missing out one year in 2012.
Tyrone and Donegal have usually been the 4th team though Tipperary took that prize last year.

2016 Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Tipp
2015 Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone
2014 Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Donegal
2013 Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone
2012 Cork,  Dublin, Mayo, Donegal
2011 Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Donegal

oneflewoverthecuckoonest

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 04:00:39 PM »
in all gaa sports, at the end of a championship, there will be only one winner. to date in intercounty since the introduction of the backdoor, we have not had one "new" winner in either hurling or football, and the possibility of such an event arising weakens with each passing year.

if the panel of 25-30, that makes up each intercounty squad, existed in isolation to solely play for the county, then yes some sort of second or third tier competition, after an initial provincial defeat, may serve a purpose to fill the remainder of their summer. But these panellists are not the property of the intercounty scene, they also have their clubs to serve. Many clubs throughout the land and their inter county players, would probably place more masse in concentrating on winning the local club championship than seeing these players on county duty at 2nd or 3rd tier level deep into july or august, playing in games attracting poor attendances and given lip service by the media, with possibly 1 or 2 minutes of highlights(if any on RTE).

The only way for the weak to build is through a decent league campaign and then look forward to championship scalp, the dream of the scalp fosters the reason for  the hard work during the winter months.....take away the dream and the application is likely to be diluted.

for example, Antrim are rated the poorest outfit in Ulster. Once every ten years or so, they do pop up and beat a perceived superior rival in the Ulster championship. I am sure the vast majority associated with Antrim would prefer the crack at a shock in ulster each year in preference to a first round 3rd tier game against say Waterford in front of 200 people in Dungarvan.


Clubs are entitled to their players from July onwards, and the GAA was set up in an original way whereby most counties were finished the intercounty scene by the end of July bar the all Ireland semi finalists.  Creating 2nd and 3rd tier levels will make a dogs ear of the club championship scene in many counties.

straight knockout was and remains the best option for intercounty GAA....it is not returning because Croke Park now needs to maximise gate receipts to pay for a raft of full time officials(including secretaries in counties)..........so all decisions on championship formats forthwith will be determined with finances in mind rather than competitiveness.

in truth, introducing 2nd and 3rd tier competitions will sound a death knell to the competitiveness of many counties, as player interest and supporter interest in the system will gradually erode.

we have had the lower tier hurling competitions for a number of years, and not one of the minnows have made any shape of getting closer to the elite 8/9....in fact in truth, from an original competitive 12 or so, the likes of Offaly, Antrim and Laois are falling further away each season from the top 8/9, and nothing outside the top 9 will be competitive in that top bracket for the foreseeable future.

creating tiers 2 and 3 for football is the GAAs apartheid.

PAULD123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1076
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 04:07:51 PM »
..........so all decisions on championship formats forthwith will be determined with finances in mind rather than competitiveness......

Enthusiasts on these forums try to solve sporting issues. The Sporting administrators are trying to solve financial issues.

Sad but all too true

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4545
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 04:11:55 PM »
Open draw. 32 teams. End of story. Close the thread.

armaghniac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11206
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 04:34:34 PM »
I share your concerns around media coverage and that is something the gaa should address by ensuring games get broadcast.  The chance to re-enter the championship might reduce the lip service factor.  Fermanagh would have a good shot at winning a div3/4 competition next year.  I know I'd rather watch sligo v Fermanagh than Dublin v westmeath

Re-entering the championship in the present year is complete nonsense.

The idea that weak counties necessarily have great club championships because their county teams are out early is also a bit suspect, is the Carlow club championship better than that of Dublin or Kerry?

And as for straight knockout, the extra games  not only serve to raise money but serve to raise the profile of the GAA which brings in many of the people who are in these clubs.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Taylor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 584
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2017, 04:41:22 PM »
Junior, Intermediate &Senior c'ships work really well in counties.

If it was done properly there is no reason why it wouldnt succeed on a National level.

Main issue would been apathy towards anything other than the big one. Marketing would be key here in making it attractive

manfromdelmonte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1615
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2017, 04:50:17 PM »
the main issue here is the Dubs.
and the imbalance of them getting most games in Croke Park.

there isn't as big a gap between all the other counties playing in provinical venues

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11234
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 04:54:28 PM »
Junior, Intermediate &Senior c'ships work really well in counties.


Exactly and that's my favourite with promition/relegation as in Club championships across the Country.
I would still retain the Provincials with all in and then 3 AI Championships.
Make the TV deal so that for every Senior game the TV company would have to do an Inter and Junior game too.

A 2 tier thingy will do nothing for the 6 or 8 weakest teams and if it's not part of a promotion relegation structure then the B is only a tournament for a shiny cup.
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

Fuzzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4234
  • Aughabrack (Tyrone Not Cork)
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 04:55:52 PM »
Open draw. 32 teams. End of story. Close the thread.

Would be certainly worth a try for a 3 year period.
It does my nut in watching Dublin and Kerry play challenge games up until the semifinal stage most years.
I'd nearly rather lose an Ulster final just to meet them in the quarters. Maybe we will.

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4545
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 04:59:42 PM »
Open draw. 32 teams. End of story. Close the thread.

Would be certainly worth a try for a 3 year period.
It does my nut in watching Dublin and Kerry play challenge games up until the semifinal stage most years.
I'd nearly rather lose an Ulster final just to meet them in the quarters. Maybe we will.

Yup. But a good draw for a Fermanagh, Carlow, Sligo etc would do wonders for football in those counties. A run to a semi would do more in a season than years in a B competition.

Open draw, first round 2 legs. Everyone gets a home game. And everyone plays for Sam.
Copyright @ BennyCake

Esmarelda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 837
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 05:08:33 PM »
Open draw. 32 teams. End of story. Close the thread.

Would be certainly worth a try for a 3 year period.
It does my nut in watching Dublin and Kerry play challenge games up until the semifinal stage most years.
I'd nearly rather lose an Ulster final just to meet them in the quarters. Maybe we will.

Yup. But a good draw for a Fermanagh, Carlow, Sligo etc would do wonders for football in those counties. A run to a semi would do more in a season than years in a B competition.

Open draw, first round 2 legs. Everyone gets a home game. And everyone plays for Sam.
Copyright @ BennyCake
So Dublin get Wicklow and beat them by 30 points in each leg. I'd say Wicklow would be happier with one hammering and a chance at a more favourable draw in the back door.

Fuzzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4234
  • Aughabrack (Tyrone Not Cork)
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 05:11:35 PM »
No matter who Dublin get unless another top 3 team, they will most likely win by 20+ points.
Dublin away to Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone would be an exciting game.
I don't agree two leg though. Straight knockout 1 game

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4545
    • View Profile
Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2017, 05:16:33 PM »
2 legs first round only. From the last 16, it's knock out.

Big guns need a shake up. Kerry Dublin need to gear up for a battle in June like the rest of us.