Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race

[MayoBuck]

Did we?

I think O'Connor played on a better team than McCurry and McAliskey. Both McCurry and McAliskey would come in for a fair degree of criticism with Tyrone, it's probably fair enough too, they haven't really done it when its mattered but Mayo have been a fair bit better than Tyrone in that time, they've probably played a style of football than allows their inside forwards much more freedom to play and score and I think I'd still have both over O'Connor but I'd gladly have swapped some of our defenders, midfielders and half forwards for the main men in that Mayo team over the past decade.

I don't understand why Mayo people get so defensive when people criticise O'Connor, it's legitimate criticism - he gets a big write up from the pundits and journalists but I think he would really struggle to hold down a regular spot on any of the other top county teams - it is usually lazy commentary from pundits looking at the scoring chart. People will pop up with the "don't knock free takers line" but the stats don't say that O'Connor is anything better than a decent free taker in any case.

He gets far more plaudits for Mayo than guys like Doherty, McLoughlin and his brother get from the national media and GAA commentators and for me he contributes not nearly as much as they do.

Yes we did. Tyrone and Mayo were very evenly matched in that game as the scoreline would suggest. An obvious place where Mayo were better was the full forward line. Cillian scored 7 points, 3 from play, in a low scoring game. Neither mcurry or mcaliskey scored from play.

I get defensive when people like you throw out the overrated tag. Cillian only has 1 all star, the same amount as Michael quinlivan and Ian Burke. In no way does that make him overrated FFS.

[Angelo]

He's the top scorer in the history of the championship.

He averages 6.8 points per game.

The only player in the top 25 with a better scoring average is Matt Connor (7.0).

To put this in context, dead ball specialist, free scoring scoring machines of the back door era like Padraig Joyce (4.0), Paddy Bradley (5 . , Conor McManus (5.3), Dean Rock (5.4) and Oisin McConville (4.4) fall well short of him, with comparable appearances.

The only player in the top 25 all time scorers with more goals than him is Mikey Sheehy.

He's has scored 36 points in 5 All Ireland finals (including a really).

————

Statistically speaking he is the single greatest scoring forward of all time.

Just to repeat that he's averaged over 7 points a game in AI finals.

This is not a flat track bully.

His record is extraordinary.

——

Comparing him to workhorse half forwards like Doherty, McLaughlin and his brother is utterly pointless. Why not compare him to Chris Barrett while you're at it?

Mentioning him the same breath as players like McAliskey and McCurry, who each have struggled to make a mediocre Tyrone side because they simply don't have the gears to play top flight senior championship football is bizarre. It might even be bordering on retarded.

——-

The analysis that reopened this thread is inherently flawed because regardless of who he has played against, for the best part of a decade now, he has rattled up scores.

Look at the top 25 scorers in the history of championship football. It's a who's who of scoring talent. And there, plum at the top of them is O'Connor.

If you genuinely believe that an average player or an average free taker could do that, then you need a zip placed on your mouth and sticky tape put on your fingers.

Handy frees for one of the top 4 county teams over the past decade.

I don't think I've ever watched one Mayo game in Championship where O'Connor was close to being the best Mayo player on display. His most high profile game was probably the one where Mayo hammered Donegal and he got a hat trick but my only abiding memory of that game is Mayo absolutely ripping Dongeal to shreds in the middle of the pitch, the two O'Sheas made absolute mincemeat out of a Donegal side suffering from a post AI hangover.

AOS gets a lot of flak for a lot of non shows in big games, he's disappointed for Mayo on the whole I think but he has also had big displays too where he has carried Mayo over the line. The guys like Keegan, Higgins, Boyle, Moran, Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor have all been leading lights for Mayo - you've the unsung heroes like Doherty, Barrett, McLoughlin, Parsons, SOS etc who have delivered some mammoth displays for Mayo,

Cillian O'Connor as never stood out for me watching Mayo in many big Championship games as the guy who is leading the charge, he might be dominating the scoreboard, he might come up with a big score now and again but he's never been one of those players who has dominated the game or one of those players who you Mayo are trying to hit again and again.

The sort of homage you pay there is the exact reason I think O'Connor is ridiculously overrated, for that kind of a build up, I'm expecting a top forward. He's a decent free taker but he is third tier from open play.

[Angelo]

Did we?

I think O'Connor played on a better team than McCurry and McAliskey. Both McCurry and McAliskey would come in for a fair degree of criticism with Tyrone, it's probably fair enough too, they haven't really done it when its mattered but Mayo have been a fair bit better than Tyrone in that time, they've probably played a style of football than allows their inside forwards much more freedom to play and score and I think I'd still have both over O'Connor but I'd gladly have swapped some of our defenders, midfielders and half forwards for the main men in that Mayo team over the past decade.

I don't understand why Mayo people get so defensive when people criticise O'Connor, it's legitimate criticism - he gets a big write up from the pundits and journalists but I think he would really struggle to hold down a regular spot on any of the other top county teams - it is usually lazy commentary from pundits looking at the scoring chart. People will pop up with the "don't knock free takers line" but the stats don't say that O'Connor is anything better than a decent free taker in any case.

He gets far more plaudits for Mayo than guys like Doherty, McLoughlin and his brother get from the national media and GAA commentators and for me he contributes not nearly as much as they do.

Yes we did. Tyrone and Mayo were very evenly matched in that game as the scoreline would suggest. An obvious place where Mayo were better was the full forward line. Cillian scored 7 points, 3 from play, in a low scoring game. Neither mcurry or mcaliskey scored from play.

I get defensive when people like you throw out the overrated tag. Cillian only has 1 all star, the same amount as Michael quinlivan and Ian Burke. In no way does that make him overrated FFS.

An even game maybe but I don't think there's any doubt that both sides played completely contrasting styles of football and Tyrone's inside men struggled to survive in that manner. McCurry started that game on the bench and was only introduced in the past ten minutes. It's a sample of one game you're choosing too, if McCurry or McAliskey were in that Mayo team linking up with Andy Moran and feeding off the dominance Mayo tend to have on teams in the middle of the pitch with the ball being moved in fast then I think they'd excel. Would O'Connor have been able to play in a one man full forward line like McAliskey did in 2018?

O'Connor also has more all stars than Doherty and McLoughlin, he's not a better player than them. Ian Burke's All Star award was a complete joke, I'd have Quinlavin over O'Connor any day of a wet week too.

Scoring records don't tell you a whole lot really and that seems to be the start and finish of the case for O'Connor. I've seen him live in action a few times - he's not a player who stands out, he's not a player the opposition managers focus on either.

[thewobbler]

I'm not paying any homage.

The raw numbers are.

I'm looking forward to you next act, where you'll tell us that the only reason Alan Shearer is the highest scorer in PL history is because he played for free flowing Newcastle, and that Steffen Iversen and Chris Armstrong would have done the same. Or that had Paddy Wallace been across the water then he would have scored all the points that Wilkinson scored, as England were so dominant. Or that the Lakers could have swapped Kareem Abdul Jabbar for some non entity from the Atlanta Hawks, and been just as successful.

Enda Varley, Alan Freeman, Evan Regan, Mike Conroy, Conor Mortimer. Just off the top of my head. That's the kind of player at the McAliskey/McCurry level.

The reason they don't average 6.8 points a game in championship football is because they're not as good at scoring as COC is. Nobody is. He's basically the reason why Mayo went from being trampled in every final they played, to being there right to the end.

Show some respect for that.

[MayoBuck]

Did we?

I think O'Connor played on a better team than McCurry and McAliskey. Both McCurry and McAliskey would come in for a fair degree of criticism with Tyrone, it's probably fair enough too, they haven't really done it when its mattered but Mayo have been a fair bit better than Tyrone in that time, they've probably played a style of football than allows their inside forwards much more freedom to play and score and I think I'd still have both over O'Connor but I'd gladly have swapped some of our defenders, midfielders and half forwards for the main men in that Mayo team over the past decade.

I don't understand why Mayo people get so defensive when people criticise O'Connor, it's legitimate criticism - he gets a big write up from the pundits and journalists but I think he would really struggle to hold down a regular spot on any of the other top county teams - it is usually lazy commentary from pundits looking at the scoring chart. People will pop up with the "don't knock free takers line" but the stats don't say that O'Connor is anything better than a decent free taker in any case.

He gets far more plaudits for Mayo than guys like Doherty, McLoughlin and his brother get from the national media and GAA commentators and for me he contributes not nearly as much as they do.

Yes we did. Tyrone and Mayo were very evenly matched in that game as the scoreline would suggest. An obvious place where Mayo were better was the full forward line. Cillian scored 7 points, 3 from play, in a low scoring game. Neither mcurry or mcaliskey scored from play.

I get defensive when people like you throw out the overrated tag. Cillian only has 1 all star, the same amount as Michael quinlivan and Ian Burke. In no way does that make him overrated FFS.

An even game maybe but I don't think there's any doubt that both sides played completely contrasting styles of football and Tyrone's inside men struggled to survive in that manner. McCurry started that game on the bench and was only introduced in the past ten minutes. It's a sample of one game you're choosing too, if McCurry or McAliskey were in that Mayo team linking up with Andy Moran and feeding off the dominance Mayo tend to have on teams in the middle of the pitch with the ball being moved in fast then I think they'd excel. Would O'Connor have been able to play in a one man full forward line like McAliskey did in 2018?

O'Connor also has more all stars than Doherty and McLoughlin, he's not a better player than them. Ian Burke's All Star award was a complete joke, I'd have Quinlavin over O'Connor any day of a wet week too.

Scoring records don't tell you a whole lot really and that seems to be the start and finish of the case for O'Connor. I've seen him live in action a few times - he's not a player who stands out, he's not a player the opposition managers focus on either.

A sample of 1 game? LOL. Mccurry and mcaliskey are the same age as Cillian more or less. The difference in their intercounty records is night and day.

[MayoBuck]

He's the top scorer in the history of the championship.

He averages 6.8 points per game.

The only player in the top 25 with a better scoring average is Matt Connor (7.0).

To put this in context, dead ball specialist, free scoring scoring machines of the back door era like Padraig Joyce (4.0), Paddy Bradley (5 . , Conor McManus (5.3), Dean Rock (5.4) and Oisin McConville (4.4) fall well short of him, with comparable appearances.

The only player in the top 25 all time scorers with more goals than him is Mikey Sheehy.

He's has scored 36 points in 5 All Ireland finals (including a really).

————

Statistically speaking he is the single greatest scoring forward of all time.

Just to repeat that he's averaged over 7 points a game in AI finals.

This is not a flat track bully.

His record is extraordinary.

——

Comparing him to workhorse half forwards like Doherty, McLaughlin and his brother is utterly pointless. Why not compare him to Chris Barrett while you're at it?

Mentioning him the same breath as players like McAliskey and McCurry, who each have struggled to make a mediocre Tyrone side because they simply don't have the gears to play top flight senior championship football is bizarre. It might even be bordering on retarded.

——-

The analysis that reopened this thread is inherently flawed because regardless of who he has played against, for the best part of a decade now, he has rattled up scores.

Look at the top 25 scorers in the history of championship football. It's a who's who of scoring talent. And there, plum at the top of them is O'Connor.

If you genuinely believe that an average player or an average free taker could do that, then you need a zip placed on your mouth and sticky tape put on your fingers.

Handy frees for one of the top 4 county teams over the past decade.

I don't think I've ever watched one Mayo game in Championship where O'Connor was close to being the best Mayo player on display. His most high profile game was probably the one where Mayo hammered Donegal and he got a hat trick but my only abiding memory of that game is Mayo absolutely ripping Dongeal to shreds in the middle of the pitch, the two O'Sheas made absolute mincemeat out of a Donegal side suffering from a post AI hangover.

AOS gets a lot of flak for a lot of non shows in big games, he's disappointed for Mayo on the whole I think but he has also had big displays too where he has carried Mayo over the line. The guys like Keegan, Higgins, Boyle, Moran, Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor have all been leading lights for Mayo - you've the unsung heroes like Doherty, Barrett, McLoughlin, Parsons, SOS etc who have delivered some mammoth displays for Mayo,

Cillian O'Connor as never stood out for me watching Mayo in many big Championship games as the guy who is leading the charge, he might be dominating the scoreboard, he might come up with a big score now and again but he's never been one of those players who has dominated the game or one of those players who you Mayo are trying to hit again and again.

The sort of homage you pay there is the exact reason I think O'Connor is ridiculously overrated, for that kind of a build up, I'm expecting a top forward. He's a decent free taker but he is third tier from open play.

This is getting ridiculous. Mayo hammered Donegal in that game BECAUSE Cillian scored a hat trick. If he didn't score 3 goals in an all Ireland quarter final we wouldn't have won by that much. No doubt you'll try say it was all down to us dominating possession but I've never seen a Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone forward do that and they've been involved in plenty of hammerings the last few years.

Cillian is a poacher, as he showed with the goal against Donegal last year in the super 8s. But maybe you think any intercounty forward could come in and pick up his 7 points per game average.

[Lar Naparka]

Back in his YPOTY days, I thought O'Connor was the most exciting Mayo prospect in years. He seemed capable of reading a game better than many far more senior to him; he could appear to be in the right place at the right time and while some would put this down to luck, I felt it was because of his superb anticipation and timing. I always felt he was a bit slow off the mark and never made the grade as a fielder but he was a natural leader of men; it was obvious that others played more positively whenever he was on the field. He could, and still can, capitalise on  a half chance better than anyone else I know.
Dara Ó'Sé said more or less that same after the '13 final. Saying Mayo had every reason to feel confident of future success with the likes of him around. He also said Cillian was the most superbly conditioned individual he had seen in a long time.
That was back then, now is a different country.
I don't recall him having a name for petulance back then, maybe I'm wrong and my memory can be notoriously flaky but nowadays you will never find anyone standing up for his sportsmanship and general quality of play than committed Mayo fans.
In my opinion, all GAA players are amateurs and I'd go easy on the abuse if a player has a bad day or even an extended run of sub- par performances. Sickness, injury, stress and pressure of all types from all angles can affect any player.
I know Cillian took THAT missed free in the dying minutes oof the '17 final very badly and felt he had let his county down. Some Mayo club players told me it took the poor fella months to recover his composure which was indeed a pity.
He had done his best and no one could have expected more from him.
But his conduct over the last few seasons has pissed me off a lot.
The elbows and trips and general bad mouthing have become his stock in trade and if anyone wonders why he has no fans outside of Mayo, you don't have too far to look for the reason.
I was at the FBD game two years ago; the one where he got a red card. He caught my attention early on and, in perfect honesty,  he should have gotten his marching orders before the ref took action.
Players with a name for tetchiness can be a liability to any team. Diarmuid Connolly lost the rag in a meaningless game against Carlow (I think) and Jim Gavin gave him a good bollicking for his troubles. Gavin was prepared to let him sulk for as long as it took, before he came back into the reckoning.
IMO, Diarmuid contributed far more from play than Cillian at his best, but the manager didn't tolerate handbagging from any of his  players, and rightly so.
There is no point in telling me about O'Connor's superb scoring returns. He is as likely to score from play as any other Mayo forward but the majority of his score come from frees.
Maurice Sheridan scored more than anyone else during John Maughan's time in the '90s but he was lucky to hold down a place. He was a gifted free taker but his contribution from play was minimal.
Right now, Cillian's last few years saw his prodigious talent being wasted to a great degree.  However, I'm told he is really looking forward to the resumption of play and one can only home his general attitude has changed but only time will tell....

[Angelo]

Did we?

I think O'Connor played on a better team than McCurry and McAliskey. Both McCurry and McAliskey would come in for a fair degree of criticism with Tyrone, it's probably fair enough too, they haven't really done it when its mattered but Mayo have been a fair bit better than Tyrone in that time, they've probably played a style of football than allows their inside forwards much more freedom to play and score and I think I'd still have both over O'Connor but I'd gladly have swapped some of our defenders, midfielders and half forwards for the main men in that Mayo team over the past decade.

I don't understand why Mayo people get so defensive when people criticise O'Connor, it's legitimate criticism - he gets a big write up from the pundits and journalists but I think he would really struggle to hold down a regular spot on any of the other top county teams - it is usually lazy commentary from pundits looking at the scoring chart. People will pop up with the "don't knock free takers line" but the stats don't say that O'Connor is anything better than a decent free taker in any case.

He gets far more plaudits for Mayo than guys like Doherty, McLoughlin and his brother get from the national media and GAA commentators and for me he contributes not nearly as much as they do.

Yes we did. Tyrone and Mayo were very evenly matched in that game as the scoreline would suggest. An obvious place where Mayo were better was the full forward line. Cillian scored 7 points, 3 from play, in a low scoring game. Neither mcurry or mcaliskey scored from play.

I get defensive when people like you throw out the overrated tag. Cillian only has 1 all star, the same amount as Michael quinlivan and Ian Burke. In no way does that make him overrated FFS.

An even game maybe but I don't think there's any doubt that both sides played completely contrasting styles of football and Tyrone's inside men struggled to survive in that manner. McCurry started that game on the bench and was only introduced in the past ten minutes. It's a sample of one game you're choosing too, if McCurry or McAliskey were in that Mayo team linking up with Andy Moran and feeding off the dominance Mayo tend to have on teams in the middle of the pitch with the ball being moved in fast then I think they'd excel. Would O'Connor have been able to play in a one man full forward line like McAliskey did in 2018?

O'Connor also has more all stars than Doherty and McLoughlin, he's not a better player than them. Ian Burke's All Star award was a complete joke, I'd have Quinlavin over O'Connor any day of a wet week too.

Scoring records don't tell you a whole lot really and that seems to be the start and finish of the case for O'Connor. I've seen him live in action a few times - he's not a player who stands out, he's not a player the opposition managers focus on either.

A sample of 1 game? LOL. Mccurry and mcaliskey are the same age as Cillian more or less. The difference in their intercounty records is night and day.

Yes, you chose the Tyrone Mayo clash in 2016, that's one game.

O'Connor plays in a team and a system which allows far more freedom and good ball for their inside forwards so it's not exactly like for like. I think O'Connor would struggle to hold down a starting spot in most of the other top counties around that time.

[Angelo]

He's the top scorer in the history of the championship.

He averages 6.8 points per game.

The only player in the top 25 with a better scoring average is Matt Connor (7.0).

To put this in context, dead ball specialist, free scoring scoring machines of the back door era like Padraig Joyce (4.0), Paddy Bradley (5 . , Conor McManus (5.3), Dean Rock (5.4) and Oisin McConville (4.4) fall well short of him, with comparable appearances.

The only player in the top 25 all time scorers with more goals than him is Mikey Sheehy.

He's has scored 36 points in 5 All Ireland finals (including a really).

————

Statistically speaking he is the single greatest scoring forward of all time.

Just to repeat that he's averaged over 7 points a game in AI finals.

This is not a flat track bully.

His record is extraordinary.

——

Comparing him to workhorse half forwards like Doherty, McLaughlin and his brother is utterly pointless. Why not compare him to Chris Barrett while you're at it?

Mentioning him the same breath as players like McAliskey and McCurry, who each have struggled to make a mediocre Tyrone side because they simply don't have the gears to play top flight senior championship football is bizarre. It might even be bordering on retarded.

——-

The analysis that reopened this thread is inherently flawed because regardless of who he has played against, for the best part of a decade now, he has rattled up scores.

Look at the top 25 scorers in the history of championship football. It's a who's who of scoring talent. And there, plum at the top of them is O'Connor.

If you genuinely believe that an average player or an average free taker could do that, then you need a zip placed on your mouth and sticky tape put on your fingers.

Handy frees for one of the top 4 county teams over the past decade.

I don't think I've ever watched one Mayo game in Championship where O'Connor was close to being the best Mayo player on display. His most high profile game was probably the one where Mayo hammered Donegal and he got a hat trick but my only abiding memory of that game is Mayo absolutely ripping Dongeal to shreds in the middle of the pitch, the two O'Sheas made absolute mincemeat out of a Donegal side suffering from a post AI hangover.

AOS gets a lot of flak for a lot of non shows in big games, he's disappointed for Mayo on the whole I think but he has also had big displays too where he has carried Mayo over the line. The guys like Keegan, Higgins, Boyle, Moran, Durcan and Diarmuid O'Connor have all been leading lights for Mayo - you've the unsung heroes like Doherty, Barrett, McLoughlin, Parsons, SOS etc who have delivered some mammoth displays for Mayo,

Cillian O'Connor as never stood out for me watching Mayo in many big Championship games as the guy who is leading the charge, he might be dominating the scoreboard, he might come up with a big score now and again but he's never been one of those players who has dominated the game or one of those players who you Mayo are trying to hit again and again.

The sort of homage you pay there is the exact reason I think O'Connor is ridiculously overrated, for that kind of a build up, I'm expecting a top forward. He's a decent free taker but he is third tier from open play.

This is getting ridiculous. Mayo hammered Donegal in that game BECAUSE Cillian scored a hat trick. If he didn't score 3 goals in an all Ireland quarter final we wouldn't have won by that much. No doubt you'll try say it was all down to us dominating possession but I've never seen a Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone forward do that and they've been involved in plenty of hammerings the last few years.

Cillian is a poacher, as he showed with the goal against Donegal last year in the super 8s. But maybe you think any intercounty forward could come in and pick up his 7 points per game average.

I think most decent county forward would hit what O'Connor does for Mayo if they were trusted with the free taking and penalty taking duties in that Mayo side O'Connor has played in.

Mayo hammered Donegal in 2013 because they destroyed them all over the pitch, Donegal did not want or could not match the Mayo hunger, intensity and tempo and were beaten to a pulp in every section - with or without O'Connor they were winning that game comfortably, you can argue the gap might have been tighter if O'Connor wasn't there but what does that matter. O'Connor can finish, he will put a shift in but he has very distinct limitations. If his side are very much on top then he will get the chances with the amount of ball that goes in, he will get the space with the amount of runners and players Mayo commit forward.

He can finish, he will put a shift in for you and he's a fairly steady free taker but his movement, his lack of pace and ball winning ability and his reluctance off his left side are what hold him back. His scoring stats simply would not be replicated in he played in any other county team.

As I've said, I've never watched Mayo in Championship and thought O'Connor is the man for them, I've see guys like Keegan, Boyle, Barrett, Parsons, AOS, Doherty, DOC, Moran and McLoughlin all be that player at some point but not O'Connor.

Lazy analysis then sees someone focus on the fact that O'Connor scored 1-09 in the game (probably 0-08 from frees) and they will pick him out as the star Mayo man.

O'Connor just does not stand out in that Mayo team, it's as simple as that.

[thewobbler]

You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

[Angelo]

You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

I do know that Tyrone lack a top class inside forward or did until McShane arrived on the scene last year. McCurry and McAliskey blow hot and cold but are very dangerous players in the right system and when they're firing - more dangerous than O'Connor for me personally but none of them are top level. The difference is that between 2011-present I think Mayo have been a lot strong from 1-12 than Tyrone have, you could say they have been stronger from 13-15 too but that would probably be down solely to Andy Moran too.

[MayoBuck]

You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

Well he played against a Jim McGuiness managed Donegal in 2013 and scored a hat trick. McManus played the same Donegal team a few weeks previous and didn't get near that.

Tyrone were also playing a full blanket defence in 2016 when Cillian did really well. I think he's also got 5 goals in all Ireland semi-finals against Kerry down the years. But maybe that's all down to Keegan and Higgins.

[Angelo]

You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

Well he played against a Jim McGuiness managed Donegal in 2013 and scored a hat trick. McManus played the same Donegal team a few weeks previous and didn't get near that.

Tyrone were also playing a full blanket defence in 2016 when Cillian did really well. I think he's also got 5 goals in all Ireland semi-finals against Kerry down the years. But maybe that's all down to Keegan and Higgins.

See now you're just talking nonsense.

Mayo absolutely steamrolled Donegal in that game, absolutely devoured them in the middle of the pitch. Mayo were running through the middle with threes and fours everywhere walking the ball into the net.

How many of those goals against Kerry were penalties?

Higgins, Boyle, Keegan, Doherty, the O'Sheas, Diarmuid O'Connor Barrett, Parsons, McLoughlin, Moran, Doherty. There's many brilliant players in that Mayo team, for me O'Connor always stood out as one of the weak links, in the big games he always stood out as a player they needed much more from in the general play of the game.

[MayoBuck]

I'm talking nonsense? Is there an asterisk beside all scoring stats when the game turns into a rout? What about Con O'Callaghan's 2 goals against us last summer.. We didn't show up in the 2nd half so maybe they shouldn't count.

I'm sure you can look up how many were penalties, does the fact Cillian won the penalty himself make a difference?

Several of those players you name have been in and out of the team the last 10 years, Cillian hasn't. Also, you're going on as if Mayo dominate every team we play and get let down by Cillian. That's clearly rubbish as Fenton and David Moran always play well against us. I seem to remember Paul Conroy winning man of the match against us recently too.

[BennyCake]

You're absolutely right Angelo.

That none of the greatest forwards in the most dominant teams in history have come close to his scoring rate, well that can  only be a statistical anomaly.

He's only played 60-odd championship games. It's not a strong enough sample as what you saw one day when he was surrounded by Tyrone's blanket.

(I do wonder if it ever crosses your mind that Tyrone have played that way since 2012 because they haven't had the scoring power to compete with top-flight sides in a more open contest?)

Yup, if you put any of the greatest forwards or some fairly average ones in that Mayo team and entrusted them with free taking duties then they'd be topping the all time scoring charts.

For instance I think it's highly possible that Darren McCurry will finish up as Tyrone's all time top scorer in Championship before he calls it a day too and he's been in and out of the Tyrone team ever since he joined the panel, has taken a year out and has not been a regular free taker for the past 4 or 5 seasons now.

Scoring records don't really say a lot particularly for free takers. How would O'Connor survive being double tagged in a one man full forward line in an inferior team like Conor McManus has?

Well he played against a Jim McGuiness managed Donegal in 2013 and scored a hat trick. McManus played the same Donegal team a few weeks previous and didn't get near that.

Tyrone were also playing a full blanket defence in 2016 when Cillian did really well. I think he's also got 5 goals in all Ireland semi-finals against Kerry down the years. But maybe that's all down to Keegan and Higgins.

See now you're just talking nonsense.

Mayo absolutely steamrolled Donegal in that game, absolutely devoured them in the middle of the pitch. Mayo were running through the middle with threes and fours everywhere walking the ball into the net.

How many of those goals against Kerry were penalties?

Higgins, Boyle, Keegan, Doherty, the O'Sheas, Diarmuid O'Connor Barrett, Parsons, McLoughlin, Moran, Doherty. There's many brilliant players in that Mayo team, for me O'Connor always stood out as one of the weak links, in the big games he always stood out as a player they needed much more from in the general play of the game.

Yeah I agree.

He's a red card waiting to happen every game. Such a frustrating player.