The ulster rugby trial

[Tony Baloney]

Syferus, i've been reading this thread with interest over the course of the trial and most posters seem fairly rationale.

I think any person reading through the tweets we've all seen would be left at the same position - i.e. who the hell knows what actually happened here, every single persons' account is different and it's extremely difficult to try and establish who is telling the truth. I have yet to speak to one person who can say hand on heart they strongly believe either side.

I find it baffling how you can be so strongly adamant of guilt by the rugby players when you're getting the exact same info as the rest of joe public are getting.

What makes so much against them? Is it personal?

This place is a place for opinions, no-one's disputing that. But your continued tirades against other posters who are of a different opinion or merely question your opinion is quite strange.

Do you know something about this story the rest of us don't?

When virtue signalling rational thought goes out the window.

[GetOverTheBar]

Clearly not a co-ordinated defence from the lads!

But with everyone drunk, nobody will remember things the same way.

I can't imagine they'll let McIlroy up there.

A coordinated defence would reak of conspiracy tbh, I'd imagine they don't have a clue what happened, really anyone in that house.

I think the lads don't really know what happened. I think the alleged victim is pretty clear on most of it. I agree the coordinated defence might possibly look like a conspiracy given the amount of drink they had and I think this is a tactic that was decided on. They're only out to create doubt and lead people to that conclusion - "who knows what went on".

Pretty much agreed on that, Dara Florence's evidence for me was the key in it all.

Even though she was only in the room briefly, her words I imagine will make it very hard for anyone to convict "beyond reasonable doubt".

That does not mean there wasn't an attack IMO, I just don't see how anyone can convict anyone with certainty on this.

Thought Olding came off quite well to be honest (albeit on basis of tweets), quite clever considering the lady in question described him and monkey-like and an imbecile.

[magpie seanie]

Clearly not a co-ordinated defence from the lads!

But with everyone drunk, nobody will remember things the same way.

I can't imagine they'll let McIlroy up there.

A coordinated defence would reak of conspiracy tbh, I'd imagine they don't have a clue what happened, really anyone in that house.

I think the lads don't really know what happened. I think the alleged victim is pretty clear on most of it. I agree the coordinated defence might possibly look like a conspiracy given the amount of drink they had and I think this is a tactic that was decided on. They're only out to create doubt and lead people to that conclusion - "who knows what went on".

Pretty much agreed on that, Dara Florence's evidence for me was the key in it all.

Even though she was only in the room briefly, her words I imagine will make it very hard for anyone to convict "beyond reasonable doubt".

That does not mean there wasn't an attack IMO, I just don't see how anyone can convict anyone with certainty on this.

Thought Olding came off quite well to be honest (albeit on basis of tweets), quite clever considering the lady in question described him and monkey-like and an imbecile.

I think after all that drink we might all be monkey like and imbecilic.

[AQMP]

Clearly not a co-ordinated defence from the lads!

But with everyone drunk, nobody will remember things the same way.

I can't imagine they'll let McIlroy up there.

A coordinated defence would reak of conspiracy tbh, I'd imagine they don't have a clue what happened, really anyone in that house.

I think the lads don't really know what happened. I think the alleged victim is pretty clear on most of it. I agree the coordinated defence might possibly look like a conspiracy given the amount of drink they had and I think this is a tactic that was decided on. They're only out to create doubt and lead people to that conclusion - "who knows what went on".

Pretty much agreed on that, Dara Florence's evidence for me was the key in it all.

Even though she was only in the room briefly, her words I imagine will make it very hard for anyone to convict "beyond reasonable doubt".

That does not mean there wasn't an attack IMO, I just don't see how anyone can convict anyone with certainty on this.

Thought Olding came off quite well to be honest (albeit on basis of tweets), quite clever considering the lady in question described him and monkey-like and an imbecile.

I think after all that drink we might all be monkey like and imbecilic.

Guilty

[Taylor]

Clearly not a co-ordinated defence from the lads!

But with everyone drunk, nobody will remember things the same way.

I can't imagine they'll let McIlroy up there.

A coordinated defence would reak of conspiracy tbh, I'd imagine they don't have a clue what happened, really anyone in that house.

I think the lads don't really know what happened. I think the alleged victim is pretty clear on most of it. I agree the coordinated defence might possibly look like a conspiracy given the amount of drink they had and I think this is a tactic that was decided on. They're only out to create doubt and lead people to that conclusion - "who knows what went on".

Pretty much agreed on that, Dara Florence's evidence for me was the key in it all.

Even though she was only in the room briefly, her words I imagine will make it very hard for anyone to convict "beyond reasonable doubt".

That does not mean there wasn't an attack IMO, I just don't see how anyone can convict anyone with certainty on this.

Thought Olding came off quite well to be honest (albeit on basis of tweets), quite clever considering the lady in question described him and monkey-like and an imbecile.

I think after all that drink we might all be monkey like and imbecilic.

After that amount of sauce I would take it as a compliment if I looked like that.

They didn't seem to go into in details as much about what PJ drank. Just more a general overview

[seafoid]

I am looking forward to the summing up

[screenexile]

They seem to be getting way more stuck in to Olding. . . does it often happen that when the prosecution says "This is all lies is it not?" the defendant suddenly goes "actually yeah I made it up!"

Sounds like he's really trying to crush him is this the prosecution throwing a Hail Mary because they can't get beyond reasonable doubt unless one of them breaks?!

[spuds]

Every media report on this case that is preceded by a warning that some people may find the following upsetting I picture poor Syfeus in the back seat of his parents 7 seater with his eyes big as plates.

[square_ball]

They seem to be getting way more stuck in to Olding. . . does it often happen that when the prosecution says "This is all lies is it not?" the defendant suddenly goes "actually yeah I made it up!"

Sounds like he's really trying to crush him is this the prosecution throwing a Hail Mary because they can't get beyond reasonable doubt unless one of them breaks?!

You'd wonder why they didn't get stuck into Jackson like the grilling they appear to giving Olding at the minute?

[GetOverTheBar]

They seem to be getting way more stuck in to Olding. . . does it often happen that when the prosecution says "This is all lies is it not?" the defendant suddenly goes "actually yeah I made it up!"

Sounds like he's really trying to crush him is this the prosecution throwing a Hail Mary because they can't get beyond reasonable doubt unless one of them breaks?!

You'd wonder why they didn't get stuck into Jackson like the grilling they appear to giving Olding at the minute?

Honestly, Olding seems the most innocent of the two charged with rape.

Is there something here that Jackson doesn't look like butter would melt whereas Olding is a bit. 'rougher' for want of a better word?

[AQMP]

They seem to be getting way more stuck in to Olding. . . does it often happen that when the prosecution says "This is all lies is it not?" the defendant suddenly goes "actually yeah I made it up!"

Sounds like he's really trying to crush him is this the prosecution throwing a Hail Mary because they can't get beyond reasonable doubt unless one of them breaks?!

You'd wonder why they didn't get stuck into Jackson like the grilling they appear to giving Olding at the minute?

Maybe the prosecution think the case is harder to prove against Olding?

[whitey]

The victim willingly went back to the house, willingly went up to the bedroom and willingly took her clothes off.

So obviously she was planning on having a sexual encounter with someone, but it seems like she had a change of heart.

Once she changed her mind and expressed this to who ever was in the room with her did they stop?

Did she scream holy blue murder or did she just ask them to stop?

These lads were full to the gills with drink.....how much did the victim have to drink?

It seems like it may have started off as some kind of consensual encounter, but quickly escalated into something the victim never anticipated and maybe didnt realize there was more than one person in the room with her.   

These lads are definitely guilty of acting the cvnt, but I dont know if ther is enoug certainty for a rape conviction

[Esmarelda]

The guys' version of events seems more plausible than the girl's. Even with all missing pieces.

I honestly don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion.

For me it comes down to that she was actually in charge. It ended when she decided it ended. Even if she was too numb to realise that, how can that be the lads' fault when they did nothing to threaten violence or force? One scream, in a situation where no violence has been threatened, stops it. And the witness saying it looked like a regular threesome even though she didnt see the act of consent, for me, supports that.

I definitely have doubt over Jackson, but not enough to convict, based on what I heard.

I'd be very quick in acquitting Olding, based on what  heard.

Because she said "No" to them, according to her.

Agreed, although that's disputed. And without being there we can have no idea about tone and body language which as we all know is very important in deciphering what anyone is saying.

But a scream or walking out would have been the end of it. That for me is the key for the lads figuring about that consent had not been given. The frozen stuff I would 100% get if there was some violence or threat of violence, but that wasn't the case here. There was no worse consequence. She also knew there were other women in the house, she even saw one of them during it.

I'm not sure tone is relevant although I can't recall what it is that the girl claims to have said to Jackson. Did she tell him outright that she didn't want sex?

[Syferus]

Every media report on this case that is preceded by a warning that some people may find the following upsetting I picture poor Syfeus in the back seat of his parents 7 seater with his eyes big as plates.

Your obsession with me amid a case about a horrible gang rape doesn't reflect well on you. Butchered by your own hand.

[AQMP]

Olding is finished.  Just under 3 hrs on the stand.