Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[Redhand Santa]

I think after the euphoria from the weekend subsides and we sit down and thoroughly assess where we're at, we'll find we are probably as far away as we have been since 2011.

The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009. No team that we have beaten in a knock-out match since 2013 has went on to win the All-Ireland. We are a fair ways behind both Mayo and Kerry. We benefited greatly from both of them having an off year. We were glorified Ulster Champions by virtue of the Super 8. The All Ireland Final was over as a contest after 33mins. I'm by no means a Harte basher but we have to be honest. It's not good enough. Only for a fortuitous Darren Hughes block which resulted in Sludden's goal it was 50/50 whether or not we were going to beat Monaghan. I'm not sure if a management team needs assembled, or if we're simply not good enough but since we lost to Mayo in 2016, everything has been geared towards to the Dubs both fitness wise and system wise, and now twice we have come up short. I detest mentioning him but I listen to Wooly Parkinson but he called it completely right last week, Colly Cav and/or his role was completely negated by the Dubs, so essentially we were 15 v 14 for the whole match. I'm just not sure where we go or what we do from here, if we're not as fit as the Dubs, then do we need a new trainer, if our system is outdated then do we need a new manager? Or is it simply that we don't have the players? I'm sure we will all watch club championship games over the next few months and see classy, strong athletic players who we know just won't fit in with Mickey's plan. So I'll let you all discuss.

Also been saying this

And its now 3 times, in 2 years, Dublin have beaten Tyrone while only in 3rd gear

I would counter that by saying that, with the obvious exception of Dublin who are probably the best team ever, we have beaten whoever has been put infront of us in the last two seasons. I would argue that 2017 and 2018 are the strongest teams Tyrone have had since at least 2010 and it's not their fault that they haven't been drawn against Mayo, Kerry or even Galway this year as I see no reason why we couldn't have beaten any of them and then this wouldn't be a stick that could be used to beat this Tyrone team

I entirely agree, lazy analysis. As things stand, in my view we are a better team than the other teams mentioned in 2018, maybe not until 2017, but  because we haven't played them in 2018 doesn't mean we haven't surpassed them.

I wouldn't call it lazy analysis at all. Monaghan knocked us out in the first game of the championship, the lucky goal we got made it look a bit more respectable. We struggled badly against Meath and should have been knocked out in normal time. Had a few easy games and then almost kicked ourselves out of it against Monaghan in the semi final.

We have played Dublin, Kerry and Mayo numerous times in the last 10 years in either the Quarter finals, Semi finals or Final and we have been well beaten on every single occasion. 

This will continue for at least another 3 years as Harte refuses to change anything. Its as clear as day to every ex Tyrone player, sports writer, TV presenter etc that we need to make changes but I can 100% guarantee that we wont. Harte seems determined to prove everyone wrong by playing the same players with the same set up hoping that they will win. Its utter madness.

Next year Tyrone may win Ulster but with Donegal and Monaghan improving it is looking unlikely. They may get through the Super 8s depending on the group but as soon as they meet Mayo, Dublin or Kerry they will be knocked out. Its ground hog day in Tyrone the past 10 years.

We won a few easy games and then beat Monaghan in the semi final? Did you just ignore the fact that we went up to Ballybofey and beat Donegal there for the first time since 1973? The current Ulster champions who had won it at their ease? Even the Roscommon game was seen as a tricky match. They had drawn with Mayo at the same stage last year and played some great football beating Armagh. They also had put it up to Galway. We effectively ended their season that day so their subsequent matches can be ignored.

I've saw a lot of people saying Harte won't change things and everything is the same as last year. No offence but that is absolute rubbish. He added O'Neill to the backroom team and made 6/7 changes to the starting 15 from last year. And although it didn't work our tactics were very different to last year versus Dublin. We by and large went man for man and didn't sit with a blanket defence. We tried to press higher up the pitch and altered tactics within the games.

I'd like to see us focus on playing more man for man next year. We really need to focus on kickouts (both our own and opposition) as they are so crucial at taking on Dublin. Forward play also needs looked at obviously with a lot more focus on getting the ball into the right area's.

Kerry and Mayo were poor in this year's championship so I've no idea why would need to beat them to prove we were the second best team. Monaghan should have beat Kerry by 7 or 8 points. Galway have a lot to prove still as well and lost easily to the Monaghan team we knocked out.

Overall it has been a positive season with a number of players improving. Still lots to work on but I'd be hopeful the players won't back down from the challenge. I'm sure they'll be a lot more dignified than some of the boys on here and there over the top personal criticisms/abuse.

[GaaFanatic123]

Finished runners up to arguably to the greatest ever Gaa team!!

Far too many negatives, Some people are a hard bunch to impress but this has been a great year with fresh faces and many reasons to be happy for the future!!

The future still looks good for Tyrone football!!

[tyrone08]

I think after the euphoria from the weekend subsides and we sit down and thoroughly assess where we're at, we'll find we are probably as far away as we have been since 2011.

The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009. No team that we have beaten in a knock-out match since 2013 has went on to win the All-Ireland. We are a fair ways behind both Mayo and Kerry. We benefited greatly from both of them having an off year. We were glorified Ulster Champions by virtue of the Super 8. The All Ireland Final was over as a contest after 33mins. I'm by no means a Harte basher but we have to be honest. It's not good enough. Only for a fortuitous Darren Hughes block which resulted in Sludden's goal it was 50/50 whether or not we were going to beat Monaghan. I'm not sure if a management team needs assembled, or if we're simply not good enough but since we lost to Mayo in 2016, everything has been geared towards to the Dubs both fitness wise and system wise, and now twice we have come up short. I detest mentioning him but I listen to Wooly Parkinson but he called it completely right last week, Colly Cav and/or his role was completely negated by the Dubs, so essentially we were 15 v 14 for the whole match. I'm just not sure where we go or what we do from here, if we're not as fit as the Dubs, then do we need a new trainer, if our system is outdated then do we need a new manager? Or is it simply that we don't have the players? I'm sure we will all watch club championship games over the next few months and see classy, strong athletic players who we know just won't fit in with Mickey's plan. So I'll let you all discuss.

Also been saying this

And its now 3 times, in 2 years, Dublin have beaten Tyrone while only in 3rd gear

I would counter that by saying that, with the obvious exception of Dublin who are probably the best team ever, we have beaten whoever has been put infront of us in the last two seasons. I would argue that 2017 and 2018 are the strongest teams Tyrone have had since at least 2010 and it's not their fault that they haven't been drawn against Mayo, Kerry or even Galway this year as I see no reason why we couldn't have beaten any of them and then this wouldn't be a stick that could be used to beat this Tyrone team

I entirely agree, lazy analysis. As things stand, in my view we are a better team than the other teams mentioned in 2018, maybe not until 2017, but  because we haven't played them in 2018 doesn't mean we haven't surpassed them.

I wouldn't call it lazy analysis at all. Monaghan knocked us out in the first game of the championship, the lucky goal we got made it look a bit more respectable. We struggled badly against Meath and should have been knocked out in normal time. Had a few easy games and then almost kicked ourselves out of it against Monaghan in the semi final.

We have played Dublin, Kerry and Mayo numerous times in the last 10 years in either the Quarter finals, Semi finals or Final and we have been well beaten on every single occasion. 

This will continue for at least another 3 years as Harte refuses to change anything. Its as clear as day to every ex Tyrone player, sports writer, TV presenter etc that we need to make changes but I can 100% guarantee that we wont. Harte seems determined to prove everyone wrong by playing the same players with the same set up hoping that they will win. Its utter madness.

Next year Tyrone may win Ulster but with Donegal and Monaghan improving it is looking unlikely. They may get through the Super 8s depending on the group but as soon as they meet Mayo, Dublin or Kerry they will be knocked out. Its ground hog day in Tyrone the past 10 years.

We won a few easy games and then beat Monaghan in the semi final? Did you just ignore the fact that we went up to Ballybofey and beat Donegal there for the first time since 1973? The current Ulster champions who had won it at their ease? Even the Roscommon game was seen as a tricky match. They had drawn with Mayo at the same stage last year and played some great football beating Armagh. They also had put it up to Galway. We effectively ended their season that day so their subsequent matches can be ignored.

I've saw a lot of people saying Harte won't change things and everything is the same as last year. No offence but that is absolute rubbish. He added O'Neill to the backroom team and made 6/7 changes to the starting 15 from last year. And although it didn't work our tactics were very different to last year versus Dublin. We by and large went man for man and didn't sit with a blanket defence. We tried to press higher up the pitch and altered tactics within the games.

I'd like to see us focus on playing more man for man next year. We really need to focus on kickouts (both our own and opposition) as they are so crucial at taking on Dublin. Forward play also needs looked at obviously with a lot more focus on getting the ball into the right area's.

Kerry and Mayo were poor in this year's championship so I've no idea why would need to beat them to prove we were the second best team. Monaghan should have beat Kerry by 7 or 8 points. Galway have a lot to prove still as well and lost easily to the Monaghan team we knocked out.

Overall it has been a positive season with a number of players improving. Still lots to work on but I'd be hopeful the players won't back down from the challenge. I'm sure they'll be a lot more dignified than some of the boys on here and there over the top personal criticisms/abuse.

Just to make it clear I am offering constructive criticism, I am not bashing anyone but no one can or should ignore that we still have work to do. I care about Tyrone football and want them to reach their potential. 

Donegal won the easiest Ulster in recent years. This Dongeal team are an up and coming team and are not the finished article. You make it sound like we beat the old Dongeal team of Jim Guinness.

Harte added O'Neill to the back room team but is he allowing him to have a big input? If you look at the last 3-4 years shooting has been and is still one of our biggest issues. Our players still make poor decisions even though most of these players have been about for a few years now. I would like to see it set up a bit like American football where we have a defensive coach and an attacking coach. I just dont think O'Neill is being given the freedom he should be.

Agreed I would like us to go man to man more. While our performance has improved against Dublin compared with last year everyone knew Colm does not play well against the Dubs as they bypass his sweeper role. There was enough articles written before the game highlighting this. He should have been pushed up the field more to put Dublin on the back foot.

This Tyrone team need to beat a Kerry, Mayo or Dublin in order to give them confidence that they can do it. I sort of think its like a mental road block. Beating Donegal at home was a good start but they need to be confident that they can beat the top teams which hasnt happened this last number of years.

I agree people should not have bashing for the sake of bashing but at the same point there is no point in year after year patting them on the back saying well done when with a few more positive improvements and addressing failings such as shooting they could be winning AIs.

[Knock Yer Mucker In]

I think after the euphoria from the weekend subsides and we sit down and thoroughly assess where we're at, we'll find we are probably as far away as we have been since 2011.

The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009. No team that we have beaten in a knock-out match since 2013 has went on to win the All-Ireland. We are a fair ways behind both Mayo and Kerry. We benefited greatly from both of them having an off year. We were glorified Ulster Champions by virtue of the Super 8. The All Ireland Final was over as a contest after 33mins. I'm by no means a Harte basher but we have to be honest. It's not good enough. Only for a fortuitous Darren Hughes block which resulted in Sludden's goal it was 50/50 whether or not we were going to beat Monaghan. I'm not sure if a management team needs assembled, or if we're simply not good enough but since we lost to Mayo in 2016, everything has been geared towards to the Dubs both fitness wise and system wise, and now twice we have come up short. I detest mentioning him but I listen to Wooly Parkinson but he called it completely right last week, Colly Cav and/or his role was completely negated by the Dubs, so essentially we were 15 v 14 for the whole match. I'm just not sure where we go or what we do from here, if we're not as fit as the Dubs, then do we need a new trainer, if our system is outdated then do we need a new manager? Or is it simply that we don't have the players? I'm sure we will all watch club championship games over the next few months and see classy, strong athletic players who we know just won't fit in with Mickey's plan. So I'll let you all discuss.

Also been saying this

And its now 3 times, in 2 years, Dublin have beaten Tyrone while only in 3rd gear

I would counter that by saying that, with the obvious exception of Dublin who are probably the best team ever, we have beaten whoever has been put infront of us in the last two seasons. I would argue that 2017 and 2018 are the strongest teams Tyrone have had since at least 2010 and it's not their fault that they haven't been drawn against Mayo, Kerry or even Galway this year as I see no reason why we couldn't have beaten any of them and then this wouldn't be a stick that could be used to beat this Tyrone team

I entirely agree, lazy analysis. As things stand, in my view we are a better team than the other teams mentioned in 2018, maybe not until 2017, but  because we haven't played them in 2018 doesn't mean we haven't surpassed them.

I wouldn't call it lazy analysis at all. Monaghan knocked us out in the first game of the championship, the lucky goal we got made it look a bit more respectable. We struggled badly against Meath and should have been knocked out in normal time. Had a few easy games and then almost kicked ourselves out of it against Monaghan in the semi final.

We have played Dublin, Kerry and Mayo numerous times in the last 10 years in either the Quarter finals, Semi finals or Final and we have been well beaten on every single occasion. 

This will continue for at least another 3 years as Harte refuses to change anything. Its as clear as day to every ex Tyrone player, sports writer, TV presenter etc that we need to make changes but I can 100% guarantee that we wont. Harte seems determined to prove everyone wrong by playing the same players with the same set up hoping that they will win. Its utter madness.

Next year Tyrone may win Ulster but with Donegal and Monaghan improving it is looking unlikely. They may get through the Super 8s depending on the group but as soon as they meet Mayo, Dublin or Kerry they will be knocked out. Its ground hog day in Tyrone the past 10 years.

You know I was with you until you said he refuses to change anything, Tyrones system from last season has considerable changed, if you don't recognise that you have no place discussing it at all. 

[bigpackiechestout]

I would take your point that Tyrone would benefit from the confidence boost of beating a Mayo or Kerry in a big game in Croke Park. But if we aren't drawn against them what can we do. People are already forgetting that before the Donegal and Monaghan games last month virtually everyone was saying these were 50/50 games and too close to call, yet now we are given very little credit for winning them.

As for the point that we only beat Monaghan because of a lucky goal, we should've been out of sight at half time only for some woeful shooting and decision making (which also came back to haunt us in the final).

Going forward I think we could really do with having a real push for the League next year. If we were to win it or make the final it would be a huge confidence boost for this team and cement our position as a really top team. It would also be huge for this team if we could beat Dublin in the league. I think deep down the players this year may have had their doubts about whether they were capable of winning that final and perhaps thats why the first goal was such a hammer blow even though it only brought the sides level. Whereas if we could beat them in the League the players would think we can beat them in the Championship as well

[GetOverTheBar]

I've missed it over the past few days, but why was Frank Burns dropped for the final - presumably there was an injury involved?

[WT4E]

I've missed it over the past few days, but why was Frank Burns dropped for the final - presumably there was an injury involved?

Underperformance i would imagine - he was on a poor run of games!

[tyrone08]

I would take your point that Tyrone would benefit from the confidence boost of beating a Mayo or Kerry in a big game in Croke Park. But if we aren't drawn against them what can we do. People are already forgetting that before the Donegal and Monaghan games last month virtually everyone was saying these were 50/50 games and too close to call, yet now we are given very little credit for winning them.

As for the point that we only beat Monaghan because of a lucky goal, we should've been out of sight at half time only for some woeful shooting and decision making (which also came back to haunt us in the final).

Going forward I think we could really do with having a real push for the League next year. If we were to win it or make the final it would be a huge confidence boost for this team and cement our position as a really top team. It would also be huge for this team if we could beat Dublin in the league. I think deep down the players this year may have had their doubts about whether they were capable of winning that final and perhaps thats why the first goal was such a hammer blow even though it only brought the sides level. Whereas if we could beat them in the League the players would think we can beat them in the Championship as well

yeah I agree with your points. We should have been out of sight for the Monaghan game but as I said our shooting let us down again and again in the final. It is annoying to see that our shooting is a constant issue for the last number of years.

I am aware that our system has changed and evolved but again our shooting hasnt. Over the last few games Tyrone players done 90% of the hard work in turning over the opposition, getting the ball into a scoring position then either kicking badly wide or dropping it into the keepers hands.

1st half of the Monaghan game I think 8 wides were kicked along with 4 dropped short into keepers hands. Against Dublin it was 16 wides. We can only go so far without addressing this.

Agree with you about the league. Target at least a semi final in the league and build upon that.

It does say alot about the players belief in themselves whenever Colm came out and said they were shocked to be 5-1 up against the Dubs. The team of the 00s wouldnt have been shocked, the would have turned the screw even more.

[square_ball]

I've missed it over the past few days, but why was Frank Burns dropped for the final - presumably there was an injury involved?

Underperformance i would imagine - he was on a poor run of games!

I had heard in the lead up to the final that he was carrying an injury which has impacted on his performances. Not sure how true but maybe would explain the big dip in form.

[RedHand88]

and why was tiaran mc cann givin the job of marking kilkenny? totally backfired. lee brennan actually ended up marking him late on when he got another point. we got a goal and a point directly from the 'hail marys' but we only started doin it when we were 8 points down with 5 mins to go. if we had of done it from the start we could easily have been 8 points up before Dublin started playing. game lost on the sideline.

No, you would have sacrificed our early points for low percentage goal chances. Colm cavanagh won one duel in the square, Dublin reacted by double marking him and the next ball was snuffed out in an instant. It would have been suicide to do what you suggest.

[southtyronegael]

and why was tiaran mc cann givin the job of marking kilkenny? totally backfired. lee brennan actually ended up marking him late on when he got another point. we got a goal and a point directly from the 'hail marys' but we only started doin it when we were 8 points down with 5 mins to go. if we had of done it from the start we could easily have been 8 points up before Dublin started playing. game lost on the sideline.

No, you would have sacrificed our early points for low percentage goal chances. Colm cavanagh won one duel in the square, Dublin reacted by double marking him and the next ball was snuffed out in an instant. It would have been suicide to do what you suggest.

I disagree. Cavanagh knocked the second high ball down and Peter harte was fouled for tapover free. So 1-1 first two balls in. If we had done this first 5 mins then Dublin put 2 men in square on cavanagh surely then we would have an extra man out field? Then we really would have been in business.

[tyrone08]

and why was tiaran mc cann givin the job of marking kilkenny? totally backfired. lee brennan actually ended up marking him late on when he got another point. we got a goal and a point directly from the 'hail marys' but we only started doin it when we were 8 points down with 5 mins to go. if we had of done it from the start we could easily have been 8 points up before Dublin started playing. game lost on the sideline.

No, you would have sacrificed our early points for low percentage goal chances. Colm cavanagh won one duel in the square, Dublin reacted by double marking him and the next ball was snuffed out in an instant. It would have been suicide to do what you suggest.

I disagree. Cavanagh knocked the second high ball down and Peter harte was fouled for tapover free. So 1-1 first two balls in. If we had done this first 5 mins then Dublin put 2 men in square on cavanagh surely then we would have an extra man out field? Then we really would have been in business.

I was completely certain that Colm would either start at FF or at least spend considerable time up there. Everyone knew Dublin was doggy under the high ball and even at worst case like you said they would have to double mark him which freed up someone else.

I was shocked when Mickey said to BBC that it wasn't something they had worked on or thought off when questioned about it.

[Baile an tuaigh]

It was a strange kind of game in the sense that, Tyrone win the first twenty minutes and they win the second half. Yet that 15 minute burst by the Dubs before the end of the first half where they scored like 2 - 6 was the winning of the game right there. I think Tyrone were shell shocked after the penalty and they lost their concentration and composure, especially after starting so well, all of a sudden to find themselves level. 

If Tyrone can continue to improve like they did this year I think they won't be far away next year. They should throw everything at the national league this year and try and win that for a start. I think Bradley, Cavanagh and Brennan would be an ideal full forward line. Lee and Bradley need to be on more regulary (injuries permitting)  this might help with their decision making and shooting. I like that big boy McNulty I think he can offer more in the middle. Very unlucky not to get a goal in the Meath game.

Dublins dominance won't last forever Cluxton is almost 38 and he's a huge part of their team. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

[clarshack]

It was a strange kind of game in the sense that, Tyrone win the first twenty minutes and they win the second half. Yet that 15 minute burst by the Dubs before the end of the first half where they scored like 2 - 6 was the winning of the game right there. I think Tyrone were shell shocked after the penalty and they lost their concentration and composure, especially after starting so well, all of a sudden to find themselves level. 

If Tyrone can continue to improve like they did this year I think they won't be far away next year. They should throw everything at the national league this year and try and win that for a start. I think Bradley, Cavanagh and Brennan would be an ideal full forward line. Lee and Bradley need to be on more regulary (injuries permitting)  this might help with their decision making and shooting. I like that big boy McNulty I think he can offer more in the middle. Very unlucky not to get a goal in the Meath game.

Dublins dominance won't last forever Cluxton is almost 38 and he's a huge part of their team. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

Cluxton could easily play until he's 42 though.

[blewuporstuffed]

It was a strange kind of game in the sense that, Tyrone win the first twenty minutes and they win the second half. Yet that 15 minute burst by the Dubs before the end of the first half where they scored like 2 - 6 was the winning of the game right there. I think Tyrone were shell shocked after the penalty and they lost their concentration and composure, especially after starting so well, all of a sudden to find themselves level. 

If Tyrone can continue to improve like they did this year I think they won't be far away next year. They should throw everything at the national league this year and try and win that for a start. I think Bradley, Cavanagh and Brennan would be an ideal full forward line. Lee and Bradley need to be on more regulary (injuries permitting)  this might help with their decision making and shooting. I like that big boy McNulty I think he can offer more in the middle. Very unlucky not to get a goal in the Meath game.

Dublins dominance won't last forever Cluxton is almost 38 and he's a huge part of their team. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

Cluxton could easily play until he's 42 though.

I  would doubt that.
If and when the do the 5 in a row next year, that could be the end of Cluxton I have a feeling