The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Franko]

We played well, miles better than we ever have in any previous QF, but make no mistake, we underperformed in certain areas and positions compared to our current exceptional standards. The morons will of course bang on about it being a bottle job etc, and it certainly wasn't that. New Zealand were excellent, especially at the breakdown, but the game was there to be won. No point pretending otherwise.

Mistakes that we'd never make, panic setting in early etc. We can rue the opportunity that Jordie Barret saved all we want but equally Smith had a clean intercept and was gone other than for slipping. That came from JGP pushing things too much with 30 mins left in the game.

These statements are almost the definition of a bottle job

When the real pressure came on, we fell apart, we panicked, we failed regularly to execute the basics, we made a string of unforced errors

Granted it wasn't the implosion of previous years, but it was still a bottle job

Grossly unfair, anyone who has played sport at any level should understand that players make mistakes and wrong decisions under pressure. They don't set out to do it and to label them as bottlers is bullshit.

They do indeed and you are correct - nobody sets out to do this

Both these points are irrelevant though

What's relevant is that Ireland made more mistakes and poor decisions under pressure than the All Blacks

Ireland (as in the Irish Rugby fraternity) could pat ourselves on the back or we could look at this coldly and try to come up with some sort of a plan to fix it

I don't see what's to be gained by the former, but it seems to be the Irish way

[tiempo]

Andy Farrell looked fairly contented after the match
Look overseas players and an ENG manager were brought in to do a job
Their job was to look interested and lift wages
They did a good job

[gallsman]

The game wasn't there to be managed, it had to be won. Byrne is not the man for that.

Who do we have could do that?

Realistically, nobody. The lack of a successor to Sexton has been Ireland's biggest concern for the last two WC cycles. Crowley has more about him than Byrne in terms of a bit of out half magic, but obviously has a lot still to prove. Prendergast is the big hope and I imagine he'll be getting fast tracked into the international setup ASAP.

[WT4E]

Too many lads glad Ireland lost, can't understand that attitude. Better u stick on the GAA thread.

Have to agree. I'm far from a rugby fan, but just find it bizarre to not be cheering for your country in a sport. Even worse again to be gloating like a kid in the playground when they get beat. Takes all sorts I suppose.

DEATH TAXES AND IRELAND BEING KNOCKED OUT IN THE QUARTERS

are you in my family WhatsApp group?

The best damn whatsapp family group about!

[Nanderson]

New Zealand had a shitter draw. They are probably going to the final.

I think the draw was made up of how they faired in the last World Cup, if that doesn't change then Ireland will be in the same shitty side of the draw the next day.

France could be seen as the biggest bottlers seeing they were hosts and tournament favs ..

Though Ireland losing one game against the 3 times champions in a close game I wouldn't be too hard on them

The draw is based on world rankings at the time of the draw so South Africa were ranked 1 in the world, Ireland 5th and Scotland 9th respectively. When the world cup started Ireland were 1, South Africa 2 and Scotland 5 in the world so a lot had changed in 2 and half years. If the draw were to take place a week prior to the world cup Ireland would have been drawn at worst in a group with Scotland, Australia and then 2 tier 2 nations

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Courtesy of Ewan McKenna....

Rugby World Cup Semi-Final Appearances.

New Zealand 9
Australia 6
England 6
France 6
South Africa 6
Argentina 3
Wales 3
Scotland 1

Impressive when you consider Ireland is zero. Scotland with a poor record in the World cup also.

Between them France and England have 12 semi final appearances and one title.
6N failure is at every level. It's not just us
Scotland won a qf against Samoa . Jammy bastards

That Scotland team in 1991 were a brilliant side. They had won the GS the year before then pushed the All Blacks very close in a series over there. Western Samoa were a very capable team too, they knocked Wales and Argentina out at the group stage and lost narrowly to Australia. Wasn't an easy QF at all at the time. Scotland then lost 12-6 in the semi after missing a penalty right in front of the posts at a key time. Probably won't ever get a better chance at winning the whole thing. Should have made another semi in 2015 though, robbed by a horrendous last minute refereeing decision against the Wallabies. I'm not convinced Scotland really underachieve in rugby to be honest, people turn out for the internationals but if you dig deeper the thing is built on sand and while there are some good home grown players they rely a lot on imports too. Even when the football team was shite for years and rugby team was doing OK the support for the teams can't be compared at all.

As for Ireland you probably don't care, but on the point mentioned here about perceived arrogance around Irish rugby I certainly picked up on plenty people in Scotland who felt that way and weren't bothered that Ireland lost to the All Blacks, when traditionally they would have been solidly behind Ireland.

[gallsman]

The idea of the Scots being upset over perceived Irish arrogance is utterly hilarious.

There's a distinct difference between belief in ability and arrogance. Nobody in the Ireland team was going out saying they already had Scotland beaten. Equally, it had been forever since they lost to Scotland, so the idea that they weren't allowed to be confident is nonsense. I called a 20 pt win on this thread because anyone able to look at it objectively could see that Ireland are a miles better side than them. Ireland as a nation don't do confidence particularly well, and almost never arrogance.

Also, if you want to talk about the misplaced arrogance of gobshites, only one team in the last few years had Stuart f**king Hogg playing for them, and it wasn't Ireland.

As for them not being bothered about Ireland losing to the ABs, I'd expect them, like pretty much everyone else, to not give the slightest f**k once their own team was out. I'd have loved to see Fiji or Argentina win it, but I'll not care in the slightest when they don't

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Yes there is a lot of nonsense being spouted. Confidence is no bad thing something that has been lacking in Irish teams for years. The kiwis were obviously rattled by that home series defeat as they really enjoyed that win with quite a few of them acting like knobs afterwards. Sam Canes WhatsApp chat sounded like he was about 13 ffs.

[gallsman]

Didn't see it, but after his performance and the abuse he took after the series last year, Cane more than entitled to feel smug. I imagine he couldn't care less about the two losses at home now whereas O'Mahony will likely be feeling Saturday's loss to one extent or another for the rest of his life.

He who laughs last etc.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

The idea of the Scots being upset over perceived Irish arrogance is utterly hilarious.

There's a distinct difference between belief in ability and arrogance. Nobody in the Ireland team was going out saying they already had Scotland beaten. Equally, it had been forever since they lost to Scotland, so the idea that they weren't allowed to be confident is nonsense. I called a 20 pt win on this thread because anyone able to look at it objectively could see that Ireland are a miles better side than them. Ireland as a nation don't do confidence particularly well, and almost never arrogance.

Also, if you want to talk about the misplaced arrogance of gobshites, only one team in the last few years had Stuart f**king Hogg playing for them, and it wasn't Ireland.

As for them not being bothered about Ireland losing to the ABs, I'd expect them, like pretty much everyone else, to not give the slightest f**k once their own team was out. I'd have loved to see Fiji or Argentina win it, but I'll not care in the slightest when they don't

I don't think the perceived arrogance was down to Ireland expecting to beat Scotland. As you say Ireland were quite entitled to feel extremely confident about beating Scotland for the simple reasons that they have better players, better coaches and a long winning run against the Scots. Scotland under Townsend consistently talk a good game yet deliver very little and their performance against Ireland was laughably bad.

However there is without doubt a feeling (way beyond Scotland, I just used that example since I live there) that there is a arrogance around this Irish team when they haven't delivered on the very biggest stage. NZ or Springbok arrogance at least has something to back it up. Now perhaps that's down to Ireland not doing confidence well as you suggest and coming across badly (funnily enough I think that might be the case with the aforementioned Hogg who I believe is actually a rather sensitive and misunderstood individual), perhaps it's down to jealously from other nations - after all people don't always like seeing perennial underdogs stepping forward and becoming big guns, or perhaps it's something else altogether. Ireland don't have to care but you don't have to look too far to see it exists.

[Applesisapples]

URC back this weekend, interesting to see who lines out for the various provinces. Obviously anyone with time at the WC will be rested, but will those who didn't play a minute be available?

[Main Street]

The idea of the Scots being upset over perceived Irish arrogance is utterly hilarious.

There's a distinct difference between belief in ability and arrogance. Nobody in the Ireland team was going out saying they already had Scotland beaten. Equally, it had been forever since they lost to Scotland, so the idea that they weren't allowed to be confident is nonsense. I called a 20 pt win on this thread because anyone able to look at it objectively could see that Ireland are a miles better side than them. Ireland as a nation don't do confidence particularly well, and almost never arrogance.

Also, if you want to talk about the misplaced arrogance of gobshites, only one team in the last few years had Stuart f**king Hogg playing for them, and it wasn't Ireland.

As for them not being bothered about Ireland losing to the ABs, I'd expect them, like pretty much everyone else, to not give the slightest f**k once their own team was out. I'd have loved to see Fiji or Argentina win it, but I'll not care in the slightest when they don't

I don't think the perceived arrogance was down to Ireland expecting to beat Scotland. As you say Ireland were quite entitled to feel extremely confident about beating Scotland for the simple reasons that they have better players, better coaches and a long winning run against the Scots. Scotland under Townsend consistently talk a good game yet deliver very little and their performance against Ireland was laughably bad.

However there is without doubt a feeling (way beyond Scotland, I just used that example since I live there) that there is a arrogance around this Irish team when they haven't delivered on the very biggest stage. NZ or Springbok arrogance at least has something to back it up. Now perhaps that's down to Ireland not doing confidence well as you suggest and coming across badly (funnily enough I think that might be the case with the aforementioned Hogg who I believe is actually a rather sensitive and misunderstood individual), perhaps it's down to jealously from other nations - after all people don't always like seeing perennial underdogs stepping forward and becoming big guns, or perhaps it's something else altogether. Ireland don't have to care but you don't have to look too far to see it exists.

Just take that emboldened bit, expand on that theme and you have more or less the answer. Eng/Scot/Welsh accusations of Irish arrogance are just a thin disguise for jealousy or sour grapes. The next one is Barnes (or name any ref) is humping Ireland's opposition.

[johnnycool]

URC back this weekend, interesting to see who lines out for the various provinces. Obviously anyone with time at the WC will be rested, but will those who didn't play a minute be available?

I'd say most of the squad whether they had much gametime or not in France will be allowed to holiday with their families for a few weeks.

In relation to the new look Ireland and if Farrell stays, does he start blending in the younger lads/goys in the autumn internationals and 2024 6N's with an eye on the 2027 WC even if it does mean Ireland drop down the rankings?

Sexton, Earls are gone, O'Mahony probably as well, Furlong is 30 now, Henderson, VDF, Beirne similar, probably a few years in them but probably going to a WC with a lot of the pack mid 30's mightn't be wise.

[bennydorano]

Eddie Jones gave a perfect illustration on how not to manage a transition with Australia, next RWC is 4 years away so no need to panic just yet. I'd be happy to see Farrell commit for another 4 years, I see one of his sons has started at Blackrock so maybe that is his intention but I would imagine taking England would appeal to him. Borthwick's future could depend on Saturday night's game, keep it tight (& paper over the cracks) and he likely stays, if South Africa do a number on them there'll be calls for wholesale change.

[gallsman]

Dunno what he does, but he absolutely should. We've had a couple of very, very good U20s teams the last couple of years. Going to be crucial to get them on board. I guess a lot depends on what happens at the provincial level too. Prendergast for a couple of games at the end of last season. Some of the fringe international players will definitely have to be much closer to the matchday 23 come the 6N. Coombes etc.