Gay Marriage in Scotland

[Maguire01]

So Cardinal Kieth O'Brien is incensed by the thought of Gay Marriage and feels it needs a referendum. It's a pity he didn't feel so incensed by the actions of Brother Bishops in Ireland. The Catholic Clergy does not have the moral authority to speak on this issue. Most catholics have no issue with Gay marriage or civil partnership, although perhaps not in their church. Gay Marriage does not necessarily need to be in church so why say no. If other Churches want to marry Gay Christians thats up to them.

I think your statement needs to be clarified Applesisapples.

Most non-practicing or pick and mix Catholics have no problem with Gay Marriage.

All fully subscribing Catholics do have a problem with Gay Marriage.

Both of them?

[Maguire01]

So Cardinal Kieth O'Brien is incensed by the thought of Gay Marriage and feels it needs a referendum. It's a pity he didn't feel so incensed by the actions of Brother Bishops in Ireland. The Catholic Clergy does not have the moral authority to speak on this issue. Most catholics have no issue with Gay marriage or civil partnership, although perhaps not in their church. Gay Marriage does not necessarily need to be in church so why say no. If other Churches want to marry Gay Christians thats up to them.

Legally it is not as simple as that. If gay marriage is passed then gay coulpe might be able to force churches to proceed or be taken to court under equal rights issues.

There is no legal difference in civil partnership and marriage so I don't really see the point to forcing religious groups into this.

Is there a legal obligation on any church to marry any couple?

If I never darken the church door from one end of the year to the next, have I any right to get married in it?

As far as I know, the Church can/do already refuse to marry people.

[Maguire01]

Whilst being fairly liberal on such matters, I don't fully understand the push to have gay 'marriage' when all of the rights and protections appear to exist under civil partnership arrangements. Is it just the name?

As for the Church arguments, I can't see a Christian Church, for example, having to accommodate a gay wedding any more than they would have to accommodate a Muslim wedding.

[The Iceman]

I don't think we will ever get to a point where a church will be forced to accept Gay Marriage. Some protestant denominations may decide to open it's doors to it though.

I think the Catholic Church has done too little to late to protect the sanctity of the "Marriage". Although I can't agree to Gay "Marriage" I will admit that the "Marriage" has been weakened over the centuries long before Gay people wanted to use the term. It should have been a covenant between believers. I'm not sure a Wedding is today what it was once intended to be.... Half the people who get married have no interest in religion I would imagine beyond the keeping up appearances trip to Mass of a Sunday.

[playwiththewind1st]

Glasgow Rangers in SFL Division 3 - what sort of marriage could that be classified as? Probably a very happy one.

[Eamonnca1]

This isn't about putting me on the stand. There is Catholic by Religion and unfortunately Catholic by Culture.
the people who are all for Gay Marriage are Catholic by Culture - just like the boys who throw stones at the prods are Cal'lick

For answers to questions go to the Catechism. Not individuals who haven't been to Church since the last funeral.......

So you won't answer the question about your own views on contraception, but you will answer a hypothetical question about your son? Are you taking the witness stand or not? 

My question wasn't about what was in the catechism.  I'm asking you. Do you use the old "joe bags" or don't you? You're coming on here talking down to "pick and mix" catholics, which would imply that you consider yourself the 100% compliant real deal.  I want to know how close to full compliance with the faith you are since you seem to take such a dim view of the nominal "catholics by culture" as you would put it.

[fitzroyalty]

So Cardinal Kieth O'Brien is incensed by the thought of Gay Marriage and feels it needs a referendum. It's a pity he didn't feel so incensed by the actions of Brother Bishops in Ireland. The Catholic Clergy does not have the moral authority to speak on this issue. Most catholics have no issue with Gay marriage or civil partnership, although perhaps not in their church. Gay Marriage does not necessarily need to be in church so why say no. If other Churches want to marry Gay Christians thats up to them.

I think your statement needs to be clarified Applesisapples.

Most non-practicing or pick and mix Catholics have no problem with Gay Marriage.

All fully subscribing Catholics do have a problem with Gay Marriage.

All fully subscribing Catholics are idiots.

[Eamonnca1]

[Marriage] should have been a covenant between believers.

Says who?  Marriage exists in all cultures in some shape or form.  It's about standing up in front of your family, friends and peers and making a public commitment to this other person.  Belief in the invisible man in the sky has shit all to do with it. If you're into that sort of thing then by all means bring it into the ceremony, but this idea that only religious people have any business getting married is just ridiculous. Non-religious people have the same kinds of personal relationships as you.  People like you do not have a monopoly on it.  The "institution of marriage" is not the private property of conservative religious nutjobs. It's for whoever wants it.

[Main Street]

Whilst being fairly liberal on such matters, I don't fully understand the push to have gay 'marriage' when all of the rights and protections appear to exist under civil partnership arrangements. Is it just the name?

I'd assume there are  gay couples who have the same ambitions / dreams  to get married as anyone else, as distinct from just having their partnership legally recognised. There's a choice between a registry office marriage and willing churches.

[The Iceman]

This isn't about putting me on the stand. There is Catholic by Religion and unfortunately Catholic by Culture.
the people who are all for Gay Marriage are Catholic by Culture - just like the boys who throw stones at the prods are Cal'lick

For answers to questions go to the Catechism. Not individuals who haven't been to Church since the last funeral.......

So you won't answer the question about your own views on contraception, but you will answer a hypothetical question about your son? Are you taking the witness stand or not? 

My question wasn't about what was in the catechism.  I'm asking you. Do you use the old "joe bags" or don't you? You're coming on here talking down to "pick and mix" catholics, which would imply that you consider yourself the 100% compliant real deal.  I want to know how close to full compliance with the faith you are since you seem to take such a dim view of the nominal "catholics by culture" as you would put it.

Eamonn I fully subscribe to the teachings of the Catholic Church - thats all you need to know.

You're also missing my point about the covenant. If the Church wanted ownership of the term marriage they should have made it a covenant of believers in the beginning and not let the term or the act become so loosely associated with anything religious that it is unrecognisable today.

[Jonah]

Live and let live I say.
I'm one of these pick n mix Catholics that The Iceman seems to hate.
I believe in 'A' God and an afterlife but I don't buy into a lot of what the Catholic Church preaches.
I guess I'm only a Catholic because I was baptised as one,really I see myself as a someone who has faith and their own beliefs but without feeling the need to be part of a Church.
I don't think you need to be part of an organised religion to believe in a God or have some faith or beliefs.

As for Gay marriage well I don't see what the fuss is about or why anyone would be against it.

[tyssam5]

Live and let live I say.
I'm one of these pick n mix Catholics that The Iceman seems to hate.
I believe in 'A' God and an afterlife but I don't buy into a lot of what the Catholic Church preaches.
I guess I'm only a Catholic because I was baptised as one,really I see myself as a someone who has faith and their own beliefs but without feeling the need to be part of a Church.
I don't think you need to be part of an organised religion to believe in a God or have some faith or beliefs.

As for Gay marriage well I don't see what the fuss is about or why anyone would be against it.

Yeah they're not making it compulsory for everyone!

[mylestheslasher]

Emm. I have a problem with the "fully subscribing catholic" thing. I thought the pope would be top of the list of fully subscribed catholics yet he seems to have no problem covering up for child rapists which is surely contrary to catholic teaching, even allowing for mental reservations.

[Eamonnca1]

Eamonn I fully subscribe to the teachings of the Catholic Church - thats all you need to know.

No, I need to know if you use contraceptives or not. I really need to know. Please tell me!

You're also missing my point about the covenant. If the Church wanted ownership of the term marriage they should have made it a covenant of believers in the beginning and not let the term or the act become so loosely associated with anything religious that it is unrecognisable today.

So what are you saying?  That marriage is a religious institution?  Or that it isn't but should be?  Are you bemoaning the fact that this long standing social custom (which pre-dates Christianity by a long way) has not been appropriated by the catholic church as its own exclusive club?

[stew]

[Marriage] should have been a covenant between believers.

Says who?  Marriage exists in all cultures in some shape or form.  It's about standing up in front of your family, friends and peers and making a public commitment to this other person.  Belief in the invisible man in the sky has shit all to do with it. If you're into that sort of thing then by all means bring it into the ceremony, but this idea that only religious people have any business getting married is just ridiculous. Non-religious people have the same kinds of personal relationships as you.  People like you do not have a monopoly on it.  The "institution of marriage" is not the private property of conservative religious nutjobs. It's for whoever wants it.

Your attitude toward people of faith is repugnant and you look like a religious nutjob insofar as you go out of your way to demean and chastise Christians.

I dont care if these people marry each other, i do care if they decide to do it in a Christian Church, after all, Homosexuality was said to be an abomination in the eyes of God and despite what wankers like you think Eamon............... we have rights too!

By the way, you are just about the only wingnut on here that drives his religious views down people throats, no one gives two shites what you or i think, the difference is that you drone on endlessly about people of faith and God that you are nothing but a complete and utter bore at this stage!