Do prod churches get an easy ride re Orange Order affiliations?

[T Fearon]

It is often lost sight of,the fact that major Protestant Churches have direct affiliations with the vile Orange Order via their clergy acting as chaplains,grand masters etc, and conducting services for it's members in their churches.My question is this? Why is this affiliation never highlighted by the media.Do bandsmen urinating in the grounds of catholic churches reflect the true face of protestantism? How can any so called christian church defend its affiliation to such a hate filled bigoted organisation?

I can only imagine the critical scrutiny the catholic church would be subjected to,if it was affilitiated to a similarly vile organisation, by the media north and south,not to mention anti catholic bigots like Myles etc on this Board

[Windmill abu]

Are you just in from celebrating the new year and have you let your better judgement go astray when posting while inebriated.

Does your space bar not work after commas?

[mylestheslasher]

You also forgot to mention that terrible hate crime you once observed when the two protestants threw snowballs at a catholic church. I feared for all catholics in the North when I read about that.

Strangely i agree with you on the close link in the North between protestant churches and the Orange Order but then religions and hypocrisy go hand in hand don't they?

As for your accusation that I am a bigot. Well I'm not, I believe each religion COI, Catholic etc to be equally stupid, unhealthy and pointless. That doesn't mean I hate Catholics or Protestants (that would make me a bigot). I know this is probably too much for you to take in but at least I tried.

You on the other hand are clearly a bigot as you will make shocking attempts to protect the "good names" of Paedo protectors and abusers in the catholic church (even questioning the motives of victims) in numerous threads while at the same time being heavily critical of protestant throwing snowballs at a church etc.

Now please, no abusive PM's this time - its very unholy to do that.

[magpie seanie]

Cop yourslef on Fearon. If folk like you weren't in such a rush to be offended things would be much better. Grow up ffs.

[T Fearon]

Rush to be offended? So it's ok for an overtly sectarian organisation,officially endorsed by Protestant churches to have an undue influence on politics in a divided community,whilst simultaneously flirting with active paramilitaries,encouraging street confrontation and overtly disobeying the law? As I've said before, if there was a similar organisation on the catholic side then the catholic church would (rightly) be hammered by all and sundry.

Nothwithstanding the sad personal insults (including the vile accusation that I am a aupporter in any way of paedophilia or its perpetrators) I accept that the likes of Magpie and Myles are operating from the perspective of ignorance here,after all the Dublin government doesn't understand the North, so what chance have its ordinary citizens got? I would be interested to hear the views of fellow six county residents though on this subject?

[mylestheslasher]

Rush to be offended? So it's ok for an overtly sectarian organisation,officially endorsed by Protestant churches to have an undue influence on politics in a divided community,whilst simultaneously flirting with active paramilitaries,encouraging street confrontation and overtly disobeying the law? As I've said before, if there was a similar organisation on the catholic side then the catholic church would (rightly) be hammered by all and sundry.

Nothwithstanding the sad personal insults (including the vile accusation that I am a aupporter in any way of paedophilia or its perpetrators) I accept that the likes of Magpie and Myles are operating from the perspective of ignorance here,after all the Dublin government doesn't understand the North, so what chance have its ordinary citizens got? I would be interested to hear the views of fellow six county residents though on this subject?

I said you were a "Paedo protector", I didn't say you were a supporter of Paedophilia. You clearly defended in the strongest manner Cardinal Sean Brady who protected Paedo's by forcing children to sign NDA's (maybe Sean didn't understand him not being from the 6 counties and all). You also questioned the motives of abuse victims and tried to play down their suffering on different threads. You know you did this!

Like I said before, I don't disagree with your first chapter but I wonder why you can so easily spot the wrong on the other side but are totally blind to the wrong on your own side?

[T Fearon]

If Sean Brady had kept what he heard to himself,as a young powerless priest in 1975, he is definitely a paedo protector.As it was he reported accurately what he heard to his superiors,in line with the system (flawed) as it was at the time,and learning from his experience he has done more than most to establish the robust child protection systems in the modern Catholic Church in Ireland,systems verified independly by audit to be flawless. So as I've explained before,by any reasonable view,your allegations that he is a "paedo protector" are without rationale and simply the product of blind bigotry.

[Lar Naparka]

If Sean Brady had kept what he heard to himself,as a young powerless priest in 1975, he is definitely a paedo protector.As it was he reported accurately what he heard to his superiors,in line with the system (flawed) as it was at the time,and learning from his experience he has done more than most to establish the robust child protection systems in the modern Catholic Church in Ireland,systems verified independly by audit to be flawless. So as I've explained before,by any reasonable view,your allegations that he is a "paedo protector" are without rationale and simply the product of blind bigotry.

Ah FFS, Tony, you are starting early!
Couldn't you let even one day of the New Year go by without peddling the usual line of shite?
Now, I don't believe that you are worried about Protestant clergymen or their support for the Orange Order. The purpose of this thread is to start yet another row about Sean Brady and his alleged links with organised crime.
Today should be one of renewal, re-invigoration and resolution making and maybe getting pissed tonight and not playing the same old tune again and again.

[T Fearon]

I am concerned about Orange Order,as I believe all right thinking people should be,and am disgusted by the easy ride the protestant churches get regarding their affiliations.Ironically it is the fundamentalist evangelical protestant groupings who exclusively question the orange order's Christianity and whether membership of same is moral.

Check the thread and you will see it was Myles who introduced Brady into the debate,displaying his blind bigotry against all things catholic as usual.

[mylestheslasher]

I am concerned about Orange Order,as I believe all right thinking people should be,and am disgusted by the easy ride the protestant churches get regarding their affiliations.Ironically it is the fundamentalist evangelical protestant groupings who exclusively question the orange order's Christianity and whether membership of same is moral.

Check the thread and you will see it was Myles who introduced Brady into the debate,displaying his blind bigotry against all things catholic as usual.

I brought Brady up as an example of your blinkered outlook. You expect us to believe that a grown man in his situation, a priest no less, doesn't have the moral smarts to know that taking NDA's from abused kids was wrong. More like he knew what side his bread was buttered and what was required to climb the power ladder. If you and your ilk are happy to have a man like that run your church then good for you. Funny thing is you are appalled at the OO/COI link but not at Sean Brady - that makes you the bigot, not me.

[T Fearon]

Brady covered nothing up.He listened to stories (ie not at that stage confirmed evidence) from children and recorded what he heard and passed this on to his superiors. Do you honestly think in this days the Garda would have acted anyway, such was the omnipotency of the church ( which I concede was not a good thing)

In any event it is immaterial who runs the church, flawed or not,it is the theology that matters not the human people.

By the way Orange fuelled hatred has caused hundreds to be murdered.

[Rossfan]

Whatever about Sean Brady (who as far as I know isn't a member of the O.O and so is hardly relevant here) it always sickens me when I see Protestant churches in the North festooned in Union Jacks around 12th July and also seeing reverend Christian Ministers associating with an avowedly hate mongering organisation like the O.O.
Those lads need to revisit the Bible especially the "love your neighbour" and "turn the other cheek" bits, neither of which concepts seem to be in the O.O's way of thinking.
Can you imagine the outcry if Catholic Churches all over the North were festooned with Tricolours and Easter Lillies?

[mylestheslasher]

Whatever about Sean Brady (who as far as I know isn't a member of the O.O and so is hardly relevant here) it always sickens me when I see Protestant churches in the North festooned in Union Jacks around 12th July and also seeing reverend Christian Ministers associating with an avowedly hate mongering organisation like the O.O.
Those lads need to revisit the Bible especially the "love your neighbour" and "turn the other cheek" bits, neither of which concepts seem to be in the O.O's way of thinking.
Can you imagine the outcry if Catholic Churches all over the North were festooned with Tricolours and Easter Lillies?

I agree Rossfan but remember there are some catholic churches with Tricolours believe it or not. There use to be one in Derrylin and in the Ballinagh church in Cavan. However it is clearly worse in the protestant churches in the North. I agree with yours and Tonys points on this. My main point was Tony can throw accusations everywhere else but will not see the things on the end of his nose such as Sean Bradys lack of moral courage.

[T Fearon]

I am not prepared to judge any man on the basis of what he did or didn't do back in 1975 in terms of being thrust into a hellish situation.I do condemn those so called priests who abused children and hope they are roasting in hell.But Sean Brady didn't abuse anyone, and in course of a fifty year long ministry has proved himself overall to be a good man, good pastor, and a worthy church leader.If anything he was the victim of circumstances.

Neither do I have a great deal of problems with Protestant churches being festooned with union flags,after all their flocks have a British identity,though in the case of all churches when it comes to politics they should stay well clear.

What I found particularly galling was the way every Protestant church leader called for prayers during the Haass talks when their own churches and ministers are members of a hate filled bigoted organisation whose influence in both main unionist parties means that agreement on anything substantial will never be achieved.