Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones

Started by omagh_gael, June 22, 2017, 10:12:37 AM

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PAULD123

Quote from: nrico2006 on July 12, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
This Down side is seriously lacking in quality and man for man isn't close to the Tyrone team. If they were anyway decent, the run from the past few years wouldn't have happened

I don't agree.

Donegal got beat out the gate by Armagh in 2010 (2-14 to 0-11). Two years later they were All-Ireland champions and everyone was saying what great players they had. Of the team that was hammered by Armagh, 10 started the All-Ireland final and one came on as a sub. So 11 out of 15 players that were pilloried as rubbish just two years earlier were now champions. Also in 2012 Donegal won 8 All-stars and every single one of those guys started against Armagh in 2010.

So teams can have very good players and still get bad results. Down's plight may be due to bad players or may be due to bad application. I believe that it is he latter.

I deeply believe the individual talent is not that far apart. The application difference is enormous. Tyrone players play with a determination and focus that I can only admire. They have a belief that exemplifies what takes talent and makes it a winner.

ONeill

Quote from: omaghjoe on July 12, 2017, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 12, 2017, 11:02:54 AM
The bastketbally one. Thin lad, holds on to it too long.

For me he typifies Down's cockiness and must be crushed

Yes, and that Australian boy with the fancy boots and southern hemipshere gallop.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Taylor

How many Down players would get in Tyrone first 15?
Very few.

That shows the massive gulf between the teams.

Down caught Monaghan cold and beat an Armagh team who are 2nd/3rd worst in Ulster. We are at worst, the 3rd best team in Ireland.

Sunday will demonstrate the difference in class

redhandefender

Down have very good players in their first 15. As far as playing as a team and organisation they are way off! I am sure they will go at it but will eventually fall.

No while hype as there is a sense, dangerously or not, tyrone are looking on to one of the big 2 down the line.

ONeill

What kind of beasts are these Mourne men? A lot of talk about them having tails and apparently their tails are up.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Fuzzman

It's funny how much things have changed over the years. Usually if you had Down and Tyrone in an Ulster final (or any teams) the media would be picking out certain star players and focusing on them but here we are in 2017 and there is no real star player on either side. Even Sean Cavanagh doesn't really stand out any more and so it's all about the team and the sum of their parts and systems of play.

I remember back in the 90s going to games and there would always be excitement about seeing who would be picking up who and how teams would manage Canavan etc. There was always a nervous excitement when the other teams best player got the ball but nowadays you don't expect as much from one on one battles, or was I just younger back then.

I hope Petey has a good game on Sunday. Would be nice to score a goal or three.

Don't worry O'Neill. The Down players aren't that different to ourselves I think


Redhand Santa

Down have obviously improved and wouldn't be too disrespectful towards them. They've nothing to lose and if get a good start could cause plenty of problems. Tyrone have played at a higher level for years and if got ahead early could pull away.

I do think Tyrone will win by 4 plus but certainly wouldn't write down off. Some Tyrone supporters were writing off Mayo last year. In 08 against down they thought we only had to turn up too.

In terms of how many down men would make the Tyrone team it's hard to know. I'd imagine the likes of ohagan, Ohanlon, mooney, mckernan, magnin, Harrison (based on last day) and the better Johnston wouldn't be far away. They wouldnt  all start though.

omagh_gael

#232
Down's win against Monaghan was built around the disruption that big Harrison was causing in the FF line. He didn't score heavily but any time the ball came near him it caused chaos in the defence. This tactic created a sense of panic that appeared to spread throughout the rest of the team. If I remember correctly Monaghan were absolutely horrendous in the first 20 mins and if they scored the majority of those chances the game would have been out of sight in all likelihood. In fact, Harrison had a quiet enough 1st quarter and Down's big move came in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. He went off towards the end and it was no surprise to see Down's charge falter and, tbh, they were lucky to win in the end as Monaghan's prolificacy in front of the posts came back to haunt them again. Harte will be all over this game and will have our players well scoped into the game plan and remove any complacency whatsoever.

The key things for Tyrone are:

- keeping Down quiet in the first quarter, aim to limit them to 3-5 points max. 

- Our high intensity game is an ever present, you can be guaranteed that the wall on our 45 will be solid. Down ran through Monaghan's defence surprisingly easy(Monaghan had a total off day in defence ) and they won't have faced anything like our defence this year. There's a huge gap in defensive intensity/organisation in Division 1/top division 2 teams and the rest.

- One of our biggest assets is closing down space in front of the oppositions FF line. It's very rare that we concede huge scores these days (Killarney in the league was an exception to this rule) and our gameplan is ideal to shut down a player like Harrison (cue Harrison scoring 1-07 on Sunday ;) )

- Pundits keep on labelling Tyrone's challenge as missing the key marquee player up front. However, I think this is a strength of ours at the minute. We have to cut our cloth to suit our resources and we simply don't have a strong ball winning, high scoring FF in our panel so it would be madness to play that game. We tried it with Sean and Mattie during the league but it didn't pay off at all. Our strength is multiple scoring threats coming from deep. From our starting 15 against Donegal I would be comfortable with any player from long range apart from maybe Cathal McCarron and Aiden McCrory. Plus our subs bench has lots to offer, too. Mark Bradley did serious work in the FF line against Donegal. He was playing right in front of me in Clones and he dragged his markers back and forth non-stop. This was one of the main reasons there was so much space for the HF and HB to steam through and take their points.

- Properly pushing up on McGinley's kick outs in the Donegal match created mayhem for them. We cleaned them out in midfield and I really hope this tactic continues on Sunday. Down's midfield don't strike me as huge fielders so this is an area we should really attempt to squeeze them on.

The worries from a tyrone perspective are:

- The form of Donegal since the SF leaves a serious question over our own performance. I rewatched the game during the week there and, funnily enough, James Horan raised this exact point on OTB last night. Donegal hardly laid a glove on our shooters. It is usually a mine field entering the scoring zone against Donegal but this pressure of defence was absent. I think that colours the quality of our performance and may gave us a false sense of perspective.

- Similarly, the last ten minutes of the Ulster final last year skewed people's views going into the QF against Mayo. All that was in people's head were Sean's efforts, Harte's wonder score and McGreary's great final point. What wasn't well analysed was our horrendous shooting in the 1st half (albeit into a strong wind that also effected Donegal in the 2nd half). This came back to haunt us big time in Croke park when we couldn't hit a barn door. Tyrone have a real propensity for Jekyll and Hyde performances in front of the posts and football is a simple game; ball doesn't go over enough, you lose the game.

All in all we are, rightly, comfortable favourites and should win with space to spare. I don't think it'll be an annihilation but should be Tyrone +3 to 5 points.

Fuzzman

Good summation omagh_gael. I would agree with most of that and would add also that have you noticed how they seem to alternate who plays in at FF. Often you'll see Peter Harte, Tiernan McCann, Hampsey or almost anyone make a run into that postion which means it's very hard to predict our attacks.
We're well used to hearing postions mean nothing any more but with Tyrone we take it to the extreme.
Hampsey the last day could have scored 1.01 whilst marking Donegal's best player.
McCrory almost got a goal against Derry.

I also agree that most teams are struggling to get their best players into the game with the swarm blanket defence and so if teams are relying on them for scores they can easily become toothless.
We have 17 different scorers in 2 games and the top scorers are

Sean 8 - 6 from frees
T.McCann 1.02
P.Harte 4 - 2 from frees
Sludden 4
Bradley 3
McGeary 3
McCurry 3

It will be interesting to see does Mickey start Mulgrew again. I think he realises that playing out and out corner forwards are a waste of time these days and that is why he doesn't usually play McCurry, RoNeill and Lee Brennan as they are too easily bottled up. Bradley is different as he is also small but is such a livewire and knows how to make intelligent runs and to make space for other players.
Also wonder will he start with Rory Brennan or is he now considered the 2nd half burst of speed injection the team needs each game.

omagh_gael

I was sitting beside a Trillick man in Clones against Donegal and he said Rory Brennan wouldn't start as he had picked up an injury during the week. I'd say he'll come into the starting team this weekend. My shot would be...

Morgan
McCarron
McNamee
Hampsey
McCann
Brennan
Harte
C Cavanagh
McCann (think he'll get one more shot at a start)
McGreary
Sludden
Mulgrew
Donnelly
S Cavanagh
Bradley

WT4E

Quote from: omagh_gael on July 14, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
I was sitting beside a Trillick man in Clones against Donegal and he said Rory Brennan wouldn't start as he had picked up an injury during the week. I'd say he'll come into the starting team this weekend. My shot would be...

Morgan
McCarron
McNamee
Hampsey
McCann
Brennan
Harte
C Cavanagh
McCann (think he'll get one more shot at a start)
McGreary
Sludden
Mulgrew
Donnelly
S Cavanagh
Bradley

You left out Aidan McRory - Harte always starts him no matter what!

omagh_gael

Tír Eoghain v An Dún
Craobh na Sinsear
Ionad: Cluain Eois
16ú Iúil 2017 @ 2.00pm
1 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc – 61 (18)
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin – 97 (25)
3 – Ronan McNamee – Achadh Uí Aráin – 64 (19)
4 – Cathal McCarron – An Droim Mór – 99 (26)
5 – Tiernan McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 56 (15)
6 – Pádraig Hampsey – Oileán a'Ghuail – 22 (4)
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin – 118 (39)
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh – 136 (50)
9 – Conall McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 28 (6)
10 – David Mulgrew – Ard Bó – 7 (2)
11 – Niall Sludden – An Droim Mór – 29 (7)
12 – Kieran McGeary – Cabhán a'Chaortainn 19 (5)
13 – Mark Bradley – Coill an Chlochair 35 (14)
14 – Sean Cavanagh (c) – An Mhaigh 236 (86)
15 – Matthew Donnelly – Trí Leac 92 (29)
16 – Michael O'Neill – Cluain Eo – 24 (5)
17 – Lee Brennan – Trí Leac – 13 (1)
18 – Rory Brennan – Trí Leac – 28 (10)
19 – Michael Cassidy – Ard Bó – 1 (0)
20 – Richard Donnelly – Trí Leac – 15 (5)
21 – Declan McClure – Cluain Eo – 11 (2)
22 – Darren McCurry – Éadan na dTorc – 74 (27)
23 – Justin McMahon – An Omaigh – 109 (38)
24 – Cathal McShane – Eoghan Ruadh Uí Néill 28 (9)
25 – Conor Meyler – An Omaigh – 23 (6)
26 – Ronan O'Neill – An Omaigh – 65 (15)

The Tyrone team is unchanged from the side that started against Donegal in the USFC Semi Final. Richard Donnelly returns to the matchday squad for the first time in 2017.

WT4E, no surprise to see him start. Thought Harte would have squeezed Brennan in but the starting 15 more than justified a start in the final.

thebar

Quote from: ONeill on July 14, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 12, 2017, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 12, 2017, 11:02:54 AM
The bastketbally one. Thin lad, holds on to it too long.

For me he typifies Down's cockiness and must be crushed

Yes, and that Australian boy with the fancy boots and southern hemipshere gallop.

lol lets here more about this fella?

Fuzzman

Looks like Hampsey, McGeary & Bradley have passed out Meyler, Rory Brennan and McShane to some extent in the U21 to senior race.

Good to see Richard Donnelly back in the squad. Another big strong player who can kick long range points.

Tyroneforsam

Quote from: omagh_gael on July 14, 2017, 04:08:38 PM
Tír Eoghain v An Dún
Craobh na Sinsear
Ionad: Cluain Eois
16ú Iúil 2017 @ 2.00pm
1 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc – 61 (18)
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin – 97 (25)
3 – Ronan McNamee – Achadh Uí Aráin – 64 (19)
4 – Cathal McCarron – An Droim Mór – 99 (26)
5 – Tiernan McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 56 (15)
6 – Pádraig Hampsey – Oileán a'Ghuail – 22 (4)
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin – 118 (39)
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh – 136 (50)
9 – Conall McCann – Coill an Chlochair – 28 (6)
10 – David Mulgrew – Ard Bó – 7 (2)
11 – Niall Sludden – An Droim Mór – 29 (7)
12 – Kieran McGeary – Cabhán a'Chaortainn 19 (5)
13 – Mark Bradley – Coill an Chlochair 35 (14)
14 – Sean Cavanagh (c) – An Mhaigh 236 (86)
15 – Matthew Donnelly – Trí Leac 92 (29)
16 – Michael O'Neill – Cluain Eo – 24 (5)
17 – Lee Brennan – Trí Leac – 13 (1)
18 – Rory Brennan – Trí Leac – 28 (10)
19 – Michael Cassidy – Ard Bó – 1 (0)
20 – Richard Donnelly – Trí Leac – 15 (5)
21 – Declan McClure – Cluain Eo – 11 (2)
22 – Darren McCurry – Éadan na dTorc – 74 (27)
23 – Justin McMahon – An Omaigh – 109 (38)
24 – Cathal McShane – Eoghan Ruadh Uí Néill 28 (9)
25 – Conor Meyler – An Omaigh – 23 (6)
26 – Ronan O'Neill – An Omaigh – 65 (15)

The Tyrone team is unchanged from the side that started against Donegal in the USFC Semi Final. Richard Donnelly returns to the matchday squad for the first time in 2017.

WT4E, no surprise to see him start. Thought Harte would have squeezed Brennan in but the starting 15 more than justified a start in the final.

Richie Donnelly looks to have replaced frank burns. From first sub against Derry to not making the match day squad is very disappointing for him.