Neil Francis

[Crete Boom]

the reason Tugby would not be that worried about the GAA is the natural catchment areas are so very different .  protestants, professional, wannabes and shopkeepers make up the majority of the rugby senior teams team in the west of Ireland with a few corrowed from the winter from the GAA,
I used to play/ train with ballina for a few winter in a vain attempt at staying fit and thin and its a fine club very welcoming and were very early in importing foreign coaches and players who made a huge difference to the club , But there is always a sense of those who belong v tourists  and the bar afterwards was always like the vicarage tea party .
also interesting to note they now employ a fine GAA journalist as a PR agent how many GAA clubs with a paid PRO?

While in more traditonal rugby area's of the country in Dublin, Cork and Belfast might or might not have had this atmosphere your recollection is complete bullshit (Neil Franicis esque bullshit) as I was playing there at the same time about 2 underage groups below you. All bar a small couple of families involved in the club were involved in the Stephenites, Crossmolina or Knockmore cause Ballina RFC couldn't survive if they excluded catholics or farmers or gaa or soccer people. Most people on the senior team, your team and my team (bar one or two) went to the same shite school in the area, played GAA, probably played basketball and soccer too. One of my coaches on those underage teams also managed Crossmolina senior team for a couple of years and has managed Ardnaree and Castleconnor.
I played Junior B rugby with Stephen Rochford for a few games and the people that ran the club when I played were all men who would have come from the same backrounds/schools as the men running the Stephenites or Crossmolina and the current chairman is the father of a star player of the Mayo ladies football team. The cliques, commitee men and shit stirrers involved in Ballina RFC were no different to their GAA or Soccer equivalents as was the case with other country rugby clubs like Creggs or Monivea as there simply wasn't the numbers to sustain them exclusively from people from privately educated Protestants or Catholics schools!!
As for the bar they drank the same amount of pints of guinness or smithicks or glasses of whiskey as I saw downed in the Stephenites bar after games and many the same people drinking in both albeit on different days of the week!! Maybe in the 50's it might have been like what you described but sure back then they didn't have a clubhouse so were all probabaly drinking in Rouses or Moclairs with fior gaels anyway!! I played rugby for the same reason the majority of my team mates did as in the club was down the road, it was someting to do and it kept me out of my parents hair for a couple of hours. My Dad played no rugby at all till he was in his late twenties and nearly all the Dad's of my teammates were the exact same!!
Only when I played underage at provincial level or was involved with Ireland underage development camps did I encounter the kind of elitism of private boarding schools but I am sure in time that will all change too. Back then if you told me a team from Dalkey would be back to back All Ireland Club hurling champions I would have bet there was a better chance of me scoring 5 tries against the All Blacks!!
One of the stars back then of the Ballina Rugby team back then and backrow stalwart for years was Crossmolina All Ireland winning midfielder Thomas Loftus who wasn't just coaxed in for the winter from Gaa!! Maybe he was a Belvo or Methody or Pres Cork alum as I never asked him where he went to school??James Horan was a team mate of his on the gold plated private fields of Creggs road too!!!

[DuffleKing]

I think it's safe to say the Culture is different in Ulster. Fundamentally that is why Ulster struggle to attract non traditional support at the top end.

[Itchy]

The ultimate issue here for the rugby set is that despite unprecedented success the game hadn't grown significantly. The relative lack of interest in the Melbourne game when soccer and Gaelic games were in full swing tells it's own tale. They are miles off soccers playing numbers, football's crowds and hurling cultural significance, and you can taste the hurt.

There seems to be an orchestrated campaign from the rugby heads to brand their game as the national/people's game. The harder they try, the sillier they look

I can. And it is bitter. I was actually at the first Irish Australia test *cough friendly cough* out in Brisbane and if this is our sports biggest domestic competitor then the GAA is safe for years to come.

The IRFU really don't see GAA as a competitor, I have said this before, they would look at the GAA and see good things (volunteers, revenues club and national) and bad things, as an example everyone in rugby looks at GAA fixture schedules or lack off and just think they are a complete shambles. The IRFU are driven by the professional game, you were in Brisbane, in a sold-out stadium watching rugby, watching Ireland and you think they are worried about the GAA?  Seriously?

Everybody should be worried about their competitor or frankly they are stupid. Where will their players come from if they lose their young talent to soccer or GAA or whatever. In fairness I think Rugby clubs are very tuned into the idea of competition with GAA and do a lot of clever things at underage to make the experience enjoyable for kids.

Prime insecure GAA mentality. That's not the mentality of the IRFU, talent will follow the professional ranks, it normally does. Most rugby clubs work with local GAA clubs, pretty much different seasons.

No what your saying is in my opinion naive rubbish. I coach in a small club outside a big town. Few of the young lads are playing rugby in winter and a few of them are now talking about quiting GAA - reason is the big rugby club which draws from a huge area is winning things and their GAA club isn't. In fact the GAA club is struggling for numbers. Its nothing to do with professionalism etc.

Now some people think Rugby is a good bed fellow of GAA, well I don't. Rugby produces power in a player for sure but it has a serious negative influence on ball skill by my observations. I have numerous kids on my underage team that play rugby and it takes me months every year to fix their kicking and stop their insatiable desire to charge into the nearest person in front of them. Soccer is a far better companion, teaching peripheral vision, evasion of the tackle and speed of movement of the ball. That's just my opinion.

The threat to rural GAA clubs from "super" rugby clubs in regional towns is very real. As GAA people we must be wary of them as a threat to recruitment but we should also learn from them. Their sport respects referrees. They do not have lunatics on the side line roaring and shouting at kids to anywhere near the same level as the GAA. They have a focus on fun and as the game is pretty much lacking in any high level skill its much easier to play in my opinion. I can see why kids choose it and I can see why the GAA should consider ways to counter the threat.

Soccer is also a threat with kids thinking they are going to be in premier league signing "contracts" at U15 in many counties which force them to quit other games. Of course 99.9% of them will be dumped on their arses by Galway Utd and Sligo Rovers etc when the time comes.

[Itchy]

the reason Tugby would not be that worried about the GAA is the natural catchment areas are so very different .  protestants, professional, wannabes and shopkeepers make up the majority of the rugby senior teams team in the west of Ireland with a few corrowed from the winter from the GAA,
I used to play/ train with ballina for a few winter in a vain attempt at staying fit and thin and its a fine club very welcoming and were very early in importing foreign coaches and players who made a huge difference to the club , But there is always a sense of those who belong v tourists  and the bar afterwards was always like the vicarage tea party .
also interesting to note they now employ a fine GAA journalist as a PR agent how many GAA clubs with a paid PRO?

Lad, you are way off the Mark. Maybe 20 years ago but no more. Check out where the U18s on Ballina Town club come from today.

[Dinny Breen]

The ultimate issue here for the rugby set is that despite unprecedented success the game hadn't grown significantly. The relative lack of interest in the Melbourne game when soccer and Gaelic games were in full swing tells it's own tale. They are miles off soccers playing numbers, football's crowds and hurling cultural significance, and you can taste the hurt.

There seems to be an orchestrated campaign from the rugby heads to brand their game as the national/people's game. The harder they try, the sillier they look

I can. And it is bitter. I was actually at the first Irish Australia test *cough friendly cough* out in Brisbane and if this is our sports biggest domestic competitor then the GAA is safe for years to come.

The IRFU really don't see GAA as a competitor, I have said this before, they would look at the GAA and see good things (volunteers, revenues club and national) and bad things, as an example everyone in rugby looks at GAA fixture schedules or lack off and just think they are a complete shambles. The IRFU are driven by the professional game, you were in Brisbane, in a sold-out stadium watching rugby, watching Ireland and you think they are worried about the GAA?  Seriously?

Everybody should be worried about their competitor or frankly they are stupid. Where will their players come from if they lose their young talent to soccer or GAA or whatever. In fairness I think Rugby clubs are very tuned into the idea of competition with GAA and do a lot of clever things at underage to make the experience enjoyable for kids.

Prime insecure GAA mentality. That's not the mentality of the IRFU, talent will follow the professional ranks, it normally does. Most rugby clubs work with local GAA clubs, pretty much different seasons.

No what your saying is in my opinion naive rubbish. I coach in a small club outside a big town. Few of the young lads are playing rugby in winter and a few of them are now talking about quiting GAA - reason is the big rugby club which draws from a huge area is winning things and their GAA club isn't. In fact the GAA club is struggling for numbers. Its nothing to do with professionalism etc.

Now some people think Rugby is a good bed fellow of GAA, well I don't. Rugby produces power in a player for sure but it has a serious negative influence on ball skill by my observations. I have numerous kids on my underage team that play rugby and it takes me months every year to fix their kicking and stop their insatiable desire to charge into the nearest person in front of them. Soccer is a far better companion, teaching peripheral vision, evasion of the tackle and speed of movement of the ball. That's just my opinion.

The threat to rural GAA clubs from "super" rugby clubs in regional towns is very real. As GAA people we must be wary of them as a threat to recruitment but we should also learn from them. Their sport respects referrees. They do not have lunatics on the side line roaring and shouting at kids to anywhere near the same level as the GAA. They have a focus on fun and as the game is pretty much lacking in any high level skill its much easier to play in my opinion. I can see why kids choose it and I can see why the GAA should consider ways to counter the threat.

Soccer is also a threat with kids thinking they are going to be in premier league signing "contracts" at U15 in many counties which force them to quit other games. Of course 99.9% of them will be dumped on their arses by Galway Utd and Sligo Rovers etc when the time comes.

So you see rugby as a competitor to GAA and the bit in bold sums up your knowledge of rugby. I coach both sports, some lads are good at both, some are good at football some are good at rugby. You sound insecure in your club and sport, sometimes it's not the attraction that drives players away from a club.

[Itchy]

The ultimate issue here for the rugby set is that despite unprecedented success the game hadn't grown significantly. The relative lack of interest in the Melbourne game when soccer and Gaelic games were in full swing tells it's own tale. They are miles off soccers playing numbers, football's crowds and hurling cultural significance, and you can taste the hurt.

There seems to be an orchestrated campaign from the rugby heads to brand their game as the national/people's game. The harder they try, the sillier they look

I can. And it is bitter. I was actually at the first Irish Australia test *cough friendly cough* out in Brisbane and if this is our sports biggest domestic competitor then the GAA is safe for years to come.

The IRFU really don't see GAA as a competitor, I have said this before, they would look at the GAA and see good things (volunteers, revenues club and national) and bad things, as an example everyone in rugby looks at GAA fixture schedules or lack off and just think they are a complete shambles. The IRFU are driven by the professional game, you were in Brisbane, in a sold-out stadium watching rugby, watching Ireland and you think they are worried about the GAA?  Seriously?

Everybody should be worried about their competitor or frankly they are stupid. Where will their players come from if they lose their young talent to soccer or GAA or whatever. In fairness I think Rugby clubs are very tuned into the idea of competition with GAA and do a lot of clever things at underage to make the experience enjoyable for kids.

Prime insecure GAA mentality. That's not the mentality of the IRFU, talent will follow the professional ranks, it normally does. Most rugby clubs work with local GAA clubs, pretty much different seasons.

No what your saying is in my opinion naive rubbish. I coach in a small club outside a big town. Few of the young lads are playing rugby in winter and a few of them are now talking about quiting GAA - reason is the big rugby club which draws from a huge area is winning things and their GAA club isn't. In fact the GAA club is struggling for numbers. Its nothing to do with professionalism etc.

Now some people think Rugby is a good bed fellow of GAA, well I don't. Rugby produces power in a player for sure but it has a serious negative influence on ball skill by my observations. I have numerous kids on my underage team that play rugby and it takes me months every year to fix their kicking and stop their insatiable desire to charge into the nearest person in front of them. Soccer is a far better companion, teaching peripheral vision, evasion of the tackle and speed of movement of the ball. That's just my opinion.

The threat to rural GAA clubs from "super" rugby clubs in regional towns is very real. As GAA people we must be wary of them as a threat to recruitment but we should also learn from them. Their sport respects referrees. They do not have lunatics on the side line roaring and shouting at kids to anywhere near the same level as the GAA. They have a focus on fun and as the game is pretty much lacking in any high level skill its much easier to play in my opinion. I can see why kids choose it and I can see why the GAA should consider ways to counter the threat.

Soccer is also a threat with kids thinking they are going to be in premier league signing "contracts" at U15 in many counties which force them to quit other games. Of course 99.9% of them will be dumped on their arses by Galway Utd and Sligo Rovers etc when the time comes.

So you see rugby as a competitor to GAA and the bit in bold sums up your knowledge of rugby. I coach both sports, some lads are good at both, some are good at football some are good at rugby. You sound insecure in your club and sport, sometimes it's not the attraction that drives players away from a club.

Yes, I am referring to underage. In terms of ball skills you need to be able to hop, solo, kick pass and hand pass in GAA. In rugby you need to be able to throw the ball and catch it. The ball isnt even round so its bounce introduces an element of luck into it too. Call me biased if you will but in terms of ball skills Gaelic Football is much harder for a kid to grasp than rugby. Hurling another notch up again. So GAA needs to do more to make the game easier to young kids who are probably finding it much easier to cope in rugby than they will in football.

[Dinny Breen]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

[Crete Boom]

the reason Tugby would not be that worried about the GAA is the natural catchment areas are so very different .  protestants, professional, wannabes and shopkeepers make up the majority of the rugby senior teams team in the west of Ireland with a few corrowed from the winter from the GAA,
I used to play/ train with ballina for a few winter in a vain attempt at staying fit and thin and its a fine club very welcoming and were very early in importing foreign coaches and players who made a huge difference to the club , But there is always a sense of those who belong v tourists  and the bar afterwards was always like the vicarage tea party .
also interesting to note they now employ a fine GAA journalist as a PR agent how many GAA clubs with a paid PRO?

Lad, you are way off the Mark. Maybe 20 years ago but no more. Check out where the U18s on Ballina Town club come from today.

It was way off the mark in my time there which started 25 years ago.

[Itchy]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

I never said catch. I also said ball skills. But sure enlighten me to the array of complex rugby ball skills. Maybe if kildare stopped cozying up to rugby you might produce something other than big athletes with no football in them.

[yellowcard]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

The predominant requirement in rugby is raw power and brute force. Some positions such as outhalf and scrumhalf may have their own defined skillset but its mostly a game of physical force. If you don't have the physical size or strength you simply won't make the grade.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

The predominant requirement in rugby is raw power and brute force. Some positions such as outhalf and scrumhalf may have their own defined skillset but its mostly a game of physical force. If you don't have the physical size or strength you simply won't make the grade.

That's what soccer says about us

[Dinny Breen]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

I never said catch. I also said ball skills. But sure enlighten me to the array of complex rugby ball skills. Maybe if kildare stopped cozying up to rugby you might produce something other than big athletes with no football in them.

In rugby you need to be able to throw the ball and catch it

You literally said catch it.

Anyway on that pedantic point. I'm out.

[Itchy]

Biased or deluded if you think the only skills in underage rugby is catch and pass. You have your opinion that's fine, but in this short exchange I have a fair idea why your club is losing players to rugby.

I never said catch. I also said ball skills. But sure enlighten me to the array of complex rugby ball skills. Maybe if kildare stopped cozying up to rugby you might produce something other than big athletes with no football in them.

In rugby you need to be able to throw the ball and catch it

You literally said catch it.

Anyway on that pedantic point. I'm out.

You are right so I made a mistake and shouldnt have said catch as it is the same in GAA so no differences. So that leaves the ball skill of throwing. I await a list of the other ball skills of rugby I have missed due to my ignorance.

[Jinxy]

Whatever about the country in general, I used to really enjoy watching rugby before I was exposed to the Dublin fee-paying schools scene, via the Dublin college scene.
God, you couldn't make up some of these lads, they'd put Ross O'Carroll-Kelly to shame.
Once they found out you didn't go to Blackrock, Clongowes etc. and worse again, YOU PLAYED GAELIC FOOTBALL, they quickly ran out of things to talk about. 
It's good to see some of the provincial towns doing well, but for the foreseeable future the game in Leinster will be very much rooted in that incestuous South Dublin-based Senior Cup scene.
That takes some of the good out of it for me.

[Dinny Breen]

I will indulge

Top of my head passing skills

left, right, pop, spin, cat-flap, flat, short, long, disguised, "off the ground pop", "off the ground pass" "during the tackle",  "at full pace", under, over, switch, screen, wrap "off load one hand" "off load two hands", "rip and pop"

I'm sure I could add more if was engaged but I'm not so final thing now add a defined tackle where you have a heap of decisions to process and try do those skills listed above under that kind of pressure. No doubt you think the best athletes in the world (NBA) are just throw, catch and pass merchants too. There's a reason why GAA coaches rob ideas from Rugby and Basketball. My last piece of advice, unwanted no doubt, is never be dismissive of other sports other ideas especially in front of children. Kids are generally repelled by that kind of negativity, if they are playing others sports it's because they enjoy them, they don't need their choices questioned.