Another Kerry player fails a doping test

[Jinxy]

On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

[heffo]

On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

I was doing a spinning class at lunchtime the other day and the fella beside me had take a pre-workout supplment, was drinking amino energy during it and had a Whey protein shake right after it.

[Jinxy]

I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

[Owen Brannigan]

I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

Do they make a difference or are you relying on a placebo effect?

[westbound]

Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.

The fact is that he did check the product's ingredients to see if any were on the prohibited substances list and none of them were.
He was able to provide evidence of these searches to Sport Ireland.
Chances are high that if he had asked the medical support staff they would have told him there was nothing in the product he used that was prohibited.

It's one thing to say the product was contaminated if there's no product to be tested as an excuse, it's a bit of a different story when he says the products must be contaminated, is able to provide unused samples for testing and the samples provided test positive for the substance in question.

The fact is that ignorance is not an excuse. If this had been an athlete or cyclist they would be looking at a possible 2 year ban and left with no support network around them. He is lucky he is a GAA player with plenty of people batting his corner.

But surely the sport ireland statement has confirmed that this is NOT a case of ignorance being an excuse?
This guy checked the product, did his research and confirmed that no banned substances were listed as being in the product.
I agree he should also have ran it by the team doctor or whoever but unless they actually tested the product would they have come to any other conclusion?
The fact that a banned substance was contained in the product was near impossible to establish without actually testing the product.

Having said all that, every player is responsible for everything that goes into their own bodies so there is no doubt that he should receive a punishment for having a positive test.
He has received (and served) a 21 week ban for this.

I think some people judgement is being clouded on this by the fact that it is only becoming public knowledge AFTER the ban has already been served!


Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

[AZOffaly]

I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?

[westbound]

I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?

Not unless you put honey on top!!!!! 

[armaghniac]

Not unless you put honey on top!!!!! 

That would be before breakfast.

[macdanger2]

Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

I'd be in favour of very harsh punishments for this - lifetime ban at the top (Lance) end of the scale and a minimum of ~4 years. That might seem excessive but for someone considering doping, they're going to consider 1) risk of getting caught which we know is minuscule and 2) consequences of being caught - this is something the GAA have direct control over so harsh penalties would serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

One or two players may end up being banned in "unfair" circumstances but the overall integrity of the games are at stake here so imo that would be acceptable collateral damage. To minimise this, the GAA could provide a list of approved suppliers for different supplements and if there was a problem with one of these, there'd be a get out clause; if anyone takes something outside that, then tough luck.

[westbound]

Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

I'd be in favour of very harsh punishments for this - lifetime ban at the top (Lance) end of the scale and a minimum of ~4 years. That might seem excessive but for someone considering doping, they're going to consider 1) risk of getting caught which we know is minuscule and 2) consequences of being caught - this is something the GAA have direct control over so harsh penalties would serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

One or two players may end up being banned in "unfair" circumstances but the overall integrity of the games are at stake here so imo that would be acceptable collateral damage. To minimise this, the GAA could provide a list of approved suppliers for different supplements and if there was a problem with one of these, there'd be a get out clause; if anyone takes something outside that, then tough luck.

I'd be in favour of a sliding scale of punishments myself with lifetime ban for second offence.

However, your suggestion of a list of approved suppliers is a good one in principal.
Although, I wonder with the massive number of potential suppliers is it practical?

[DJGaliv]

It's funny that after the clarification statement came out, both sides in this debate feel that they are even more right!

I can see it from both sides.

To the one who thinks he's owed an apology you feel he's unlucky, as if there was nothing he could do.
Every athlete knows that if you buy a supplement you run the very real risk of a contamination and a failed drug test. You will have been warned by dieticians/nutritionists/doctors/physios.
The idea that he ran through the ingredient of the fat burner to make sure it was legal but didn't consult the sports ireland anti-doping website is laughable.


From the sport ireland recommendations on sports supplement e.g. advice that any athlete from any two bit amateur athlete will have weighed up before deciding to purchase Oxyburn Pro Superthermotech fat burning supplements.


Sport Ireland recommends against the use of sports supplements for the following reasons:

We believe that a correct dietary and nutritional regime will provide all the potential benefits of sports supplements.
We believe that, given the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) principle of strict liability, elite athletes are opening up the possibility of inadvertent positive tests by taking supplements.

There are no guarantees that any dietary supplements are safe. Before taking any dietary supplements please assess the following

The Need: seek nutrition advice from a professional sports dietician - he didn't do
The Risk: If you choose to take a supplement you should assess the associated risks and make an informed decision. Please see risk minimisation guidelines below - he did his best here in fairness
The Consequences: consuming a contaminated product may may result in a 4 year ban from sport - has to deal with them unfortunately.

Have a read of this http://www.nutraingredients.com/Markets-and-Trends/The-decline-of-sports-supplement-contamination

I honestly feel that lads talking about lemsip - clueless, or that sure jaysus it was contaminated, or he was unlucky are being hugely naive. Every athlete knows the risks and everyone has heard all the excuses.

In drug testing it should be pass or fail. Morally yeah we can have huge sympathy for O'Sullivan, but in sport we have to close the door on lads not just blatantly doping, but being negligent and not taking responsibility for what you put in your own body.
There will be lads like O'Sullivan who can consider themselves unlucky.
However, by banning him for 1 year, that will make the next guy who thinks he needs fat burning supplements even though he wasn't advised to stop and think again.

My main point is yes fat burning supplements in this case aren't illegal, but you take the very real and common risk of contamination if you do purchase this. Every athlete knows this, and will have been advised this by dieticians/nutritionists etc.

As an athlete you have to take luck or being unlucky out of it. It can't be an excuse, however understandable it might be. What he did was wreckless, and that runs the risk of a positive test.

Remember this is a lad training six times a week, and looking for any help they can get. I feel sorry for O'Sullivan, probably a lot of pressure on him to get his body fat down. Maybe these guys are being pushed too much in this regard by S & C, management etc. If a lad training six times a week, and eating well still feels he needs to get fat burning supplements as well to hit unrealistic targets then where are we going?

[Jinxy]

I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?

Depends.
How many in one go?

[DJGaliv]

On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

All those supplements he is taking is fair enough and would have more than likely been advised by the dietician. Was this fat burning supplement not mentioned in his doping control test?

[gallsman]

Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

Fair enough -genuinely surprising I have to say.

[Jinxy]

On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

All those supplements he is taking is fair enough and would have more than likely been advised by the dietician. Was this fat burning supplement not mentioned in his doping control test?

Yep.
'Caffeine tablets'.