Ulster hurling

Started by imtommygunn, November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM

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imtommygunn

Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html

Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.

johnnycool

The wing is right on a lot of what he says about structures in Ulster hurling especially outside North Antrim who I have to say have a pretty decent set up in terms of development.

Everything is haphazard with no strategy at play that I can see and I've been involved with various Ulster Council GDO's for the last few years.
Even these coaching courses in Cookstown or wherever are what I call pop corn events, great to hear the likes of Jackie Tyrrell  or Eoin Kelly tell how they went about something or other, but totally alien to the day and daily workings of a hurler in the north.
What impact will they have, very little IMO.

Structures and fixtures.

As long as it doesn't impact on the football probably explains why the Tain league is an absolute shambles yet someone in the Ulster Council attempts to polish that particular turd every year in their reports when if you look at the number of CONC or absolute hammerings would suggest there's fundamental issues with it. Even these lads on various committees in Croke Park rabbit on about it but fail to actually delve into it.

We'll get emails about indoor events in Magherafelt in Jan and Feb, great, we'll send down teams at considerable expense but nada during the summer months where there may be benefit in setting up underage hurling intercounty blitzes to supplement club fixtures especially in counties where there are probably a shortage of fixtures to actually develop hurlers, There's a reason the likes of Eoghan Rua in Tyrone, a load of Derry teams feel the need to get their underage teams into the Antrim leagues. We'd probably be doing the same if we'd numbers from U16 up but we don't.

I don't necessarily agree with his elite squad approach as I see too much congratulatory stuff going on in my own county with development squads beating a second or third string North Cork City team yet I see a lot of lads left at home not able to train as a team as half a dozen lads are away every Saturday with development squads.
Even at that a Down schools combo won the Mageean cup the other week but if you look at the panel they actually had four or five 15 year olds on that and probably left older lads at home. I don't agree with that either and whilst that goes on we leave ourselves with an ever decreasing pool of players.
The optics look good but not when you're at the other end trying to work in a club with limited numbers.
Development/Elite squads should be there to supplement club development, not replace it.




manfromdelmonte

Its all optics

They run those things to get grants from HQ

seafoid

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html

Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.

Team Ulster is a fantastic idea

I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.

Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical

Good ideas about Fermanagh too.

Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnnycool

Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html

Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.

Team Ulster is a fantastic idea

I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.

Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical

Good ideas about Fermanagh too.

Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si

No it isn't.

Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it

Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.

The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.

If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.


Jeepers Creepers

Quote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html

Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.

Team Ulster is a fantastic idea

I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.

Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical

Good ideas about Fermanagh too.

Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si

No it isn't.

Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it

Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.

The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.

If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.

+1

seafoid

Quote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html

Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.

Team Ulster is a fantastic idea

I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.

Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical

Good ideas about Fermanagh too.

Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si

No it isn't.

Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it

Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.

The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.

If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.

Why not as a halfway house while investment brings up standards?

It took France 58 years to win a grand slam
An Ulster county winning an all Ireland in 25 years should be the target

You look at the Offaly players who won the All-Irelands in the 1980s and they came from the great schools teams of the 1970s, and from a very solid competitive local club culture. All the teams from the 1990s had underage medals won with Offaly and with their schools.
No county has ever made a breakthrough without having two basic things. Number one, a proper underage and schools development system. Number two, a significant number of clubs playing the game to a reasonable level. Without those two things, it is impossible. If you look at any county that has made the breakthrough in modern times, it is dependent on those things.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Milltown Row2

Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..

if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..

I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.

To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?

None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..

if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..

I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.

To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?

Kerry are in a good place - won All IrelandU21 B last year also. The advantage they have is geography, with Clare, Limerick and Cork not that far away.  This obviously helps the county but especially the clubs.

Regional clubs are the way to go in Ulster - Benburb and Tulach Og in Cookstown area of Tyrone, St. Patrick's (iirc) in Moneymore area of Derry. A cluster of areas joining together and driving hurling on.  Football will always come first in the majority of Ulster but no reason that the 2 sports can't work together.  The more teams there are, the better the county will be.

Main issue would be regular fixtures for  the underage teams. 

Sheugh Water

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..

if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..

I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.

To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?

Agreed but I do think it needs injection of resources from Ulster , every county should be targeted with producing 4 new clubs also, I'd say Kerry have overtaken Antrim due to higher quality of club games within their own and adjacent counties

Milltown Row2

Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.

How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!

The set up suits Ulster teams.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?

Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ?  Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..

Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.

If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.

Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.

How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!

The set up suits Ulster teams.

I've been to at least 15/20 club semifinals over the years, bar a couple they could have went either way, they were that tight.. the county needs to look at getting more teams regularly up to a decent standard, having a championship that is not just between 3 teams each year... how do they do that?

Clubs are responsible but the county are at the minute putting in a drive to encourage schools at all levels,  lifting the involvement not just with the kids but with teaching staff and feeder clubs.. Antrim has taken its eye off the ball now for 25 plus years.. it's going to take a huge effort to get back there.

But for Antrim to be improving then so must the rest in the province. Getting into Leinster again at juvenile levels is a must, they are our closet province and they have improved their not traditional counties like, Dublin, Carlow, Meath Westmeath to a level way above us, but 25 years ago we'd have beaten such teams with a bit to spare..

Look it's a head scratcher for sure and PD will hopefully have sorted out at least a start to fix this!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea