Dublin v Mayo - AISF

Started by Jinxy, August 04, 2012, 08:45:01 PM

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Champ15

Really was a fantastic day out from the atmosphere and craic around quinns to the noise generated in croke park. One thing happened in there that was as random as they come. i was sitting next to 2 dubs a man and woman in mid 50s and both goin daft throughout the game ( no more than myself) Anyway at half time the woman turns to her right and looks at my crest on stephenites 07 county final tshirt and says my nephew has 1 of them and proceeds to tell me who he was. Turns out she's a sister of a well known mayo referee and aunt of a former team mate of mine.. That's the beauty of the gaa i think you never know who your sitting beside at games
Ballina Stephenites
All Ireland Champions 2005

Hardy

Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 07, 2012, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hardy on September 07, 2012, 12:15:27 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 06, 2012, 11:10:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2012, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 06, 2012, 02:17:20 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 06, 2012, 02:09:41 PM
Watching the game on Sunday, I felt that, while McQuillan was making lots of wrong calls, he still managed to get to the end without any major incident.
Since then, I've had a good luck at a video of the game and I've revised my opinion- he made an ass's haemes of it.
I'm not saying that all his wrong calls favoured the Dubs; he let Mayo lads away with a few double hops and he managed to yellow the wrong man even after consulting with his officials.
Maybe his linesmen and umpires were at fault in some cases also- the umpire on the nearest side should have spotted that McMenamon had shinned the ball over the line when a 45 was awarded to Dublin, which Clucko pointed. That was no fault of the Dubs but that point might well have proved crucial.
The umpires at the other end were up to their task either.
I don't know what led up to the incident where McMahon dropped Varley with an elbow jab but the umpires at the Dublin end should have been on the watch out for off the ball incidents. However, what happened next does concern me.
Varley was clearly stunned as he lay on the ground and O'Carroll proceeded  to grab him and dragged him to his feet and then gave him a few good shakes. That was an extremely dangerous thing to do as Varley could have had a brain or a spine injury. He put up no resistance and it should have been obvious to all that he was genuinely injured.
Yet McQuillan made no big deal of it. Neither did his umpires.
Thankfully, it appears that he wasn't seriously injured and is making a good recovery but things might have gone seriously wrong for him if he had been.  McStay in his commentary reckoned that O'Carroll should have been given a yellow card but it's going to take more than yellow cards to put an end to this practice of players dragging others on the ground around the place. This wasn't the first such incident and it won't be the last until it's made a sending off offence.  I'm not thinking of what happened on Sunday only - it goes on all the time.

Lar on the intial elbow that caused the injury that appears to have been a genuine clash and an injury caused without malice, however the behaviour of Rory O' Carroll lifting, shaking and pulling at Varley was a disgrace. I understand his behaviour warrented only a yellow according to the rules. This needs to be addressed, the GAA are rightly gettting all high and mighty over a possible incident following a pitch invasion when celebrating fans enter the pitch, but when a lad receives a traumatic brain injury in one of this incidents they will see whats what.

I agree that Varley's genuine injury seemed to be accidental. And, for the sake of safety, I'd reluctantly agree that O'Carroll's offence should be a red card. But I have no doubt that O'Carroll thought Varley was feigning. Such a thought would never have occurred to him if feigning hadn't become endemic in the game. So if roughing up a player on the ground is to be a red card, feigning should be a red card, six months and a penalty kick.
I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening. From an early stage, players on both sides realised that McQuillan wasn't able to control the game and they reacted accordingly. 
Mayo committed a lot of tactical fouls when the tide was running in Dublin's favour and Dublin, not to be outdone, went in for the ordinary decent type of fouls like foot trips and digs.
I doubt very much that O'Carroll would have proceeded to rough up Varley as he lay motionless on the ground if he knew he was in danger of being red-carded.

Missed my point completely there, Lar.
My apologies if I have misread your comments but I can't see how I did this. I certainly agree that Varley was genuinely injured but, for me, that has no bearing on what O'Carroll proceeded to do to him. I believe that O'Carroll's assault on Varley should be judged on its merits.
He is entitled to his opinion, like everyone  else, but but acting on his belief is quite another matter.
Yup, feigning injury has become endemic in GAA matches and I wouldn't mind if a transgressor got all you say and maybe a good toe up the hole into the bargain but that doesn't mean any other player should be allowed take the law into his hands.
I don't know whose safety you had in mind when you reluctantly agree that O'Carroll should have received a red card but a red card would mean sweet shag all to Varley if his injuries had been aggravated because of O'Carroll's actions.
This is what Syferus had to say and I completely agree with him:
"It wasn't borderline at all. O'Carroll actually looked over in the direction of McQuillan and continued dragging Varley up and down for about three more seconds. I was over near that corner and the length of time O'Carroll spent at Varley was pretty sickening to watch. He lost his head completely and it should have been a very easy decision to send him off."
You appear to think differently. If so, you might care to elaborate.

It's probably late to come back to this now, but just for clarity, since your missing my point was my fault for not expressing it clearly:

My point was not that O'Carroll was correct or justified in attacking Varley, just because he thought he was feigning. In fact I agreed that he should have got a red card. You can't have players deciding who is or isn't injured or attacking them either way. But the thought that a player would be feigning wouldn't even arise if it hadn't been introduced into the game by cheats and tacitly condoned by the legislators in their failure to eradicate it, to the extent that it is now endemic.

We wouldn't have O'Carrolls attacking Varleys if the very idea of feigning injury was outlandish as it used to be and would be again if we decided to stamp it out.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Hardy on September 07, 2012, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 07, 2012, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Hardy on September 07, 2012, 12:15:27 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 06, 2012, 11:10:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2012, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 06, 2012, 02:17:20 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 06, 2012, 02:09:41 PM
Watching the game on Sunday, I felt that, while McQuillan was making lots of wrong calls, he still managed to get to the end without any major incident.
Since then, I've had a good luck at a video of the game and I've revised my opinion- he made an ass's haemes of it.
I'm not saying that all his wrong calls favoured the Dubs; he let Mayo lads away with a few double hops and he managed to yellow the wrong man even after consulting with his officials.
Maybe his linesmen and umpires were at fault in some cases also- the umpire on the nearest side should have spotted that McMenamon had shinned the ball over the line when a 45 was awarded to Dublin, which Clucko pointed. That was no fault of the Dubs but that point might well have proved crucial.
The umpires at the other end were up to their task either.
I don't know what led up to the incident where McMahon dropped Varley with an elbow jab but the umpires at the Dublin end should have been on the watch out for off the ball incidents. However, what happened next does concern me.
Varley was clearly stunned as he lay on the ground and O'Carroll proceeded  to grab him and dragged him to his feet and then gave him a few good shakes. That was an extremely dangerous thing to do as Varley could have had a brain or a spine injury. He put up no resistance and it should have been obvious to all that he was genuinely injured.
Yet McQuillan made no big deal of it. Neither did his umpires.
Thankfully, it appears that he wasn't seriously injured and is making a good recovery but things might have gone seriously wrong for him if he had been.  McStay in his commentary reckoned that O'Carroll should have been given a yellow card but it's going to take more than yellow cards to put an end to this practice of players dragging others on the ground around the place. This wasn't the first such incident and it won't be the last until it's made a sending off offence.  I'm not thinking of what happened on Sunday only - it goes on all the time.

Lar on the intial elbow that caused the injury that appears to have been a genuine clash and an injury caused without malice, however the behaviour of Rory O' Carroll lifting, shaking and pulling at Varley was a disgrace. I understand his behaviour warrented only a yellow according to the rules. This needs to be addressed, the GAA are rightly gettting all high and mighty over a possible incident following a pitch invasion when celebrating fans enter the pitch, but when a lad receives a traumatic brain injury in one of this incidents they will see whats what.

I agree that Varley's genuine injury seemed to be accidental. And, for the sake of safety, I'd reluctantly agree that O'Carroll's offence should be a red card. But I have no doubt that O'Carroll thought Varley was feigning. Such a thought would never have occurred to him if feigning hadn't become endemic in the game. So if roughing up a player on the ground is to be a red card, feigning should be a red card, six months and a penalty kick.
I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening. From an early stage, players on both sides realised that McQuillan wasn't able to control the game and they reacted accordingly. 
Mayo committed a lot of tactical fouls when the tide was running in Dublin's favour and Dublin, not to be outdone, went in for the ordinary decent type of fouls like foot trips and digs.
I doubt very much that O'Carroll would have proceeded to rough up Varley as he lay motionless on the ground if he knew he was in danger of being red-carded.

Missed my point completely there, Lar.
My apologies if I have misread your comments but I can't see how I did this. I certainly agree that Varley was genuinely injured but, for me, that has no bearing on what O'Carroll proceeded to do to him. I believe that O'Carroll's assault on Varley should be judged on its merits.
He is entitled to his opinion, like everyone  else, but but acting on his belief is quite another matter.
Yup, feigning injury has become endemic in GAA matches and I wouldn't mind if a transgressor got all you say and maybe a good toe up the hole into the bargain but that doesn't mean any other player should be allowed take the law into his hands.
I don't know whose safety you had in mind when you reluctantly agree that O'Carroll should have received a red card but a red card would mean sweet shag all to Varley if his injuries had been aggravated because of O'Carroll's actions.
This is what Syferus had to say and I completely agree with him:
"It wasn't borderline at all. O'Carroll actually looked over in the direction of McQuillan and continued dragging Varley up and down for about three more seconds. I was over near that corner and the length of time O'Carroll spent at Varley was pretty sickening to watch. He lost his head completely and it should have been a very easy decision to send him off."
You appear to think differently. If so, you might care to elaborate.

It's probably late to come back to this now, but just for clarity, since your missing my point was my fault for not expressing it clearly:

My point was not that O'Carroll was correct or justified in attacking Varley, just because he thought he was feigning. In fact I agreed that he should have got a red card. You can't have players deciding who is or isn't injured or attacking them either way. But the thought that a player would be feigning wouldn't even arise if it hadn't been introduced into the game by cheats and tacitly condoned by the legislators in their failure to eradicate it, to the extent that it is now endemic.

We wouldn't have O'Carrolls attacking Varleys if the very idea of feigning injury was outlandish as it used to be and would be again if we decided to stamp it out.
Thanks for that clarification, Hardy. I understand what you are saying and I'm in full agreement with you.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

From the Bunker

Ray Silkes take a look at last weekends match. Silke being from a rival neighbouring county has taken great pleasure at Mayo's tedious journey to AI Glory. His headline sets the tempo.



Mayo footballers reach fifth All-Ireland final since 1996

Mayo Advertiser, September 07, 2012.

Ray Silke


Mayo were 10 points to the good on Sunday early in the second half, leading 0-17 to 0-7, and yet they were reduced to stumbling over the finish line to win by three. Had David Clarke not made a tremendous save in a one-on-one with Bernard Brogan near the finish, which would have levelled the game, it would probably be Dublin who would be facing Donegal in the All-Ireland final.

Normally it is mistakes inside the white-wash which costs teams in big games, but last weekend the Dublin management team made some incredible errors of judgment.

They finished the game with a more balanced, more mobile, and more potent team than the one with which they started.

Firstly, Michael Darragh Macauley, who is an all-star midfielder, should have been selected in that position to the exclusion of either Denis Bastick or Eamon Fennell with Eoghan O'Gara as an inside forward alongside Bernard Brogan.

And how a clearly unfit Alan Brogan was brought on at half time is beyond comprehension. The man was obviously not right, and how he saw action ahead of O'Gara or Kevin McMananon, who shot 1-3 when he last started a full game for Dublin, was a key factor in Dublin's defeat.

A player will nearly always feel he is in better shape than he actually is, and most players will "chance it" to see some action.

However from the first ball that he fumbled and when he could not chase after Keith Higgins, it was clear that Pat Gilroy had burned up two substitute slips to no avail.

When Dublin finally got their team set up as it should have been far earlier, they hit Mayo for eight points in a row and cut a 10 point deficit to two.

They had all the momentum at that juncture and it was left to young Cillian O' Connor with his seventh point from a high pressure free to finally stop the rot. O'Connor, who was young player of the year, showed real character when he slotted over two early 45s to give Mayo a foothold in the game. He is a very fine young footballer.

Credit to James Horan's men, too, for hitting three mini-scoring patches that won the game for them.

They hit 0-5 on the trot early in the first half, 0-4 just before half time, and the purple patch at the start of the second half when they scored five points without reply is what won them the match. The likes of Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin and Aiden O' Shea were superb for Mayo at those key times and all played incredibly well.

It was only when Dublin repositioned Macauley to midfield, brought on O'Gara and McManamon, and put Diarmuid Connolly to wing-forward that they inched their way back into the game and they had the run on Mayo in the fourth quarter. However, the home side had left their gallop too late, and left themselves with too much to do.

Mayo's substitutes, and their fresh legs in the shape of Seamus O' Shea, who hit a great point, and Jason Gibbons, who won a vital kick-out, helped steady the ship. Had the Connacht champions been defeated last Sunday after leading by 10 points, it would have been an exceptionally cruel blow to their psyche.

This group of Mayo players now have the task of making sure they do not lose another All-Ireland final after their heart wrenching defeats in 1989, 1996, 1997, 2004 and 2006. One consolation is at least they will not be facing their nemesis Kerry in three weeks' time.

Having been in Croke Park for Donegal's two wins over Cork and Kerry and then last weekend's victory for Mayo over Dublin, it is impossible not to say that Donegal looked the superior team.

They just looked a more complete team than Mayo do at present.

However that kind of talk is just what James Horan will want to hear. He has done a fantastic job in the past two years. Last year they defeated the reigning All-Ireland champions (Cork) and now they have replicated that feat and they have collected two Connacht championships into the bargain.

They are a very committed, talented and organised bunch of players and the way that they have responded to the loss of their captain Andy Moran is admirable. They fully deserved their win in the All-Ireland semi-final and only a sadist would begrudge them an All-Ireland success after 61 years. However, in my opinion, they will have to find another gear if they are going to beat Donegal in the final.

The faded out when they let Dublin hit 0-8 without reply and did not score for 22 minutes which was very worrying and, if they allow something similar to happen in the final, they will be beaten.

But there is nothing definite in sport and that is why we love it.

Based on their respective two semi-final performances, I would expect Donegal to win the final. But we have all been wrong before.

Orchardman

Quote from: sans pessimism on September 07, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 07, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.
So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

Seen the replay of what O'Carroll, what a dirty act, he deserved a good thump in the head for that carry on

mayogodhelpus@gmail.com

Quote from: Orchardman on September 07, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on September 07, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 07, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.
So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

Seen the replay of what O'Carroll, what a dirty act, he deserved a good thump in the head for that carry on

No, he deserves a ban.
Time to take a more chill-pill approach to life.

squire_in_navy_slacks

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 07, 2012, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Orchardman on September 07, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on September 07, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 07, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.
So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

Seen the replay of what O'Carroll, what a dirty act, he deserved a good thump in the head for that carry on

No, he deserves a ban.

Utter horse shite lads.............david brady was at this shit for years and hes a hero to some..............................mayo won the game, better team on the day, but my lord did they hit the the ground with some play acting...................ure physio should get an all star, the new blonde on ure park

babarino

Haven't followed the thread, so this might seem a complete non-sequitur.

Mayo were a joy to watch last Sunday, and also against Down. A lot to the online support base might be a tad on the ar**hole side, which is why they come in for such derision when they collapse, but that was as good  a display as I've seen in a long time. Tired but held on, and a bit of the old cynicism didn't detract from an overall very skillful display. Fair dues.

Which sets it up for a very grand Finale.

From the Bunker

Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on September 07, 2012, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 07, 2012, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Orchardman on September 07, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on September 07, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 07, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.
So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

Seen the replay of what O'Carroll, what a dirty act, he deserved a good thump in the head for that carry on

No, he deserves a ban.

Utter horse shite lads.............david brady was at this shit for years and hes a hero to some..............................mayo won the game, better team on the day, but my lord did they hit the the ground with some play acting...................ure physio should get an all star, the new blonde on ure park

Ah, I'm not so sure! McLoughlins kick on the back of the head, Varley elbow across the head, Keegans dislocated finger, Cafferkeys head collision with O'Gara. All looked legitimate and in some case serious injuries. I can't think of any other injuries that looked feigned or ate serious time. Most of the breakdown in play as far as i could see was the cynical fouling by Mayo of players bearing down on goal and the understandable shenanigans from frustrated Dublin players.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 07, 2012, 11:02:33 PM
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on September 07, 2012, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 07, 2012, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Orchardman on September 07, 2012, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on September 07, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 07, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.
So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

Seen the replay of what O'Carroll, what a dirty act, he deserved a good thump in the head for that carry on

No, he deserves a ban.

Utter horse shite lads.............david brady was at this shit for years and hes a hero to some..............................mayo won the game, better team on the day, but my lord did they hit the the ground with some play acting...................ure physio should get an all star, the new blonde on ure park

Ah, I'm not so sure! McLoughlins kick on the back of the head, Varley elbow across the head, Keegans dislocated finger, Cafferkeys head collision with O'Gara. All looked legitimate and in some case serious injuries. I can't think of any other injuries that looked feigned or ate serious time. Most of the breakdown in play as far as i could see was the cynical fouling by Mayo of players bearing down on goal and the understandable shenanigans from frustrated Dublin players.
I think the referee and his officials have to take most of the blame for what went on. Both teams copped on from an early stage that Joe Mac hadn't a clue.
No doubt,Mayo went to town on the cynical fouling when the Dubs put the pressure on but that's because they knew the ref wasn't likely to start waving cards about. The Dubs knew all through that he wasn't going to pick up on their late tackles and foot trips and the likes. Dublin dished it out when Mayo were on top  and Mayo did the same when the tide turned.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi