Man Utd Thread:

[Over the Bar]

Chelsea offered no threat even before Obi's dismissal.  The corner count was 11-1 which pretty much reflected the game.  4-0 would have been a more reflective scoreline too.

[magpie seanie]

a ref that gave the majority of the big decisions to the home side.

Hold on a second Norf. If anything, Chelsea got more of the benefit cos Joe Cole should have seen red (last man) and given away a penalty before Obi Mikel was sent off. Fair enough - it was harsh on Obi Mikel to get a red card but Joe Cole should have been sent off twice!

Saha's antics were very poor. I would be mortally embarrassed if I saw a video of myself doing what he did. There were others too. Both teams had players running to the ref to get guys booked/sent off. That's soccer for you unfortunately.

I thought it wasn't a great performance by United but it was an improvement. A clean sheet and three points is excellent. At no stage in the last 3 seasons (bar the kickabout at the end of last) would that performance have been enough to get a result against Chelsea though.

[Norf Tyrone]

Gray has a habit of coming out with this kinda stuff.  I noticed that he constantly praised Chelsea and said how comfortable they were etc, yet the possession stats speak for themselves.  Not sure what it was at the end, but it was around 66-34 to United at one stage.  Chelsea's closest effort was Essiens effort that went high and wide.  Grant seems to be taking a leaf out of Mourinhos book when it comes to making excuses for defeats.  Grant said the ref made 3 mistakes - the first goal, the sending off and the penalty.  Talk aboout a moaner.  I wonder how long it will take for him to be shipped off?  The man looks clueless, and was clearly uncomfortable with everything that was going on.  Saw the replay last night, and Saha did go down Platoon-esque.  But it was still a penalty. 

Would United have won yesterday without the ref? Maybe. But I honestly believe United were flat yesterday. The stats showed that United dominated, but I don't think Cech had much to do in reality. Before the 'red card' United were shading it, but that changed the game. United were always going to be on top playing for an hour with an advantage.
Of course Grant was going to complain about the ref....he got so much wrong (The ref that is)! Geez even Fergie was watch pointing, as soon as United goaled yesterday!!

And finally - Mikel - what a favour Chelsea did United by saving them from making a blunder on him - a nice and handy £12m there!

Have Chelsea actually paid anything for Obi yet? The rumours are that Chelsea have delyed payment pending a legal inquiry re fraud, and I was told yesterday that Obi's agent was charged with said offence last week.
Obi is a decent player, but he needs to control his game more. He hardly got much of a chance yesterday did he?

They posed no threat at all up front & on this showing they have nothing bar Lampard & Drogba when it comes to goals.

That's the worry. Kalou, Sheva, Essien etc have very little going forward. However United have shown very little in the absence of R+R recently.

Hold on a second Norf. If anything, Chelsea got more of the benefit cos Joe Cole should have seen red (last man) and given away a penalty before Obi Mikel was sent off. Fair enough - it was harsh on Obi Mikel to get a red card but Joe Cole should have been sent off twice!

No way Seanie, the first was a 50/50. Maybe a pen, but never a red card. The second one was more than liklely a red card, but (Not condoning challange) was a direct result of the ineptness of the ref. I think it happened a min or two after he bottled sending off Rooney. And he did bottle it. As an aside he bottled red carding Brown too in injury time, but that hardly matters.
The rest of your points are fair. I think the result masked a poor United performance. To end with I thought Carrick had a good game yesterday, and appears to have developed well over the last few months. Keeps it steady, and lets Giggs, Rooney, and Ronaldo do their jobs. Uniteds defence, and midfield are solid, and if Ronaldo gets back to last seasons form, and Fergie plays a orthodox centreforward, United will improve on last term...might not win the league, but will improve.

[supersarsfields]

Looks like Nani and Anderson didn't impress to much last nite. Never saw  any of it or any highlights but I see Ferguson is gutted by the preformance.
Big scalp for Dowie. 12 years since a championship side beat United at home.

[ONeill]

Manchester United v YORK CITY
Wednesday 20th September 1995, Coca Cola Cup 2nd round, 1st leg.

Manchester United  0-3  CITY (Barnes 24, (P) 51, Barras 53)
Attendance: 29,049
 

CITY: Kiely, McMillan, Hall, Pepper, Tutill, Barras, Murty, Williams, Barnes (Atkin 89), Peverell (Baker 67), Jordan. Sub (not used): Warrington.
Booked: Pepper 67 (foul). Sent-off: Baker 75 (second offence)

Man Utd: Pilkington, Parker, Irwin, McGibbon, Pallister, P Neville (Cooke 46), Davies (Bruce 58), Beckham, Sharpe, McClair, Giggs. Sub (not used): Tomlinson.
Booked: Beckham 35 (foul). Sent-off: McGibbon 50 (professional foul)


This was not only a night to savour for every single City fan in the whole world, it was also a night for every non-Manchester United fan up and down the country to bask in City's glory after completing an unbelievable 3-0 victory over eventual double winners Manchester United. It was also a night when millions of whinging glory-hunters from just about anywhere other than Manchester were silenced.

United put out one of their strongest sides with the intent of mauling City but the tables were turned as City, assembled at a cost of just over £100,000 and with odds of 20-1 to win, gave Alex Ferguson's men a footballing lesson.

Manchester United chose to make just two changes to their side that had thrashed Premiership Bolton a few days earlier with Pat McGibbon making his full debut in place of Steve Bruce and Kevin Pilkington making only his second appearance for the reds as Alex Ferguson made a brave decision to rest Peter Schmeichel ahead of United's European Cup conquest - a decision which was to backfire on him. City fielded an unchanged side from the one that had beaten Swansea 1-0 at the Vetch Field the previous Saturday with the Minstermen lying just second from bottom in 23rd place in the second division.

A sell-out crowd of 29,049 - with one stand under construction, included a massive 5,000 strong army of City fans and they helped cheer on their heroes to glory.

City settled quickly and made a steady and solid start, having the best of the early attacking chances and almost sneaked ahead after just a couple of minutes when long-range specialist, Scott Jordan, curled a shot just over Kevin Pilkington's cross-bar after good work from Graeme Murty, Darren Williams and Paul Barnes. Barnes was causing McGibbon all kinds of problems with his clever play whilst at the back, Tutill and Barras were dependable as usual, coping well with United's attacks and snuffing out any signs of danger.

City had another chance minutes later when Andy McMillan put in a deep cross which found Barnes but the five-goal striker fired wide and then the Minstermen came even closer still as a 25-yard free-kick from Nigel Pepper screamed agonisingly wide of the upright. At the other end all United could muster in the way of scoring chances was a tame header over the bar from Gary Pallister following a corner. United could hardly believe what was happening as City continued to out-class the English champions and the reds were made to sweat again as Graeme Murty made space in the box but his low shot was blocked by Paul Parker.

Gradually City were forced to defend deeper and deeper as United began to get their attacking game together although their shooting had obviously gone to pot as Sharpe blazed over and then Giggs managed to miss an open goal from a couple of yards. The Premiership side did manage to force Dean Kiely into one spectacular save, however, when McClair's nimble header from Beckham's cross forced the 'keeper into a brilliant save at full stretch as he tipped the ball over the bar. From the resulting corner, Gary Pallister headed over when well-placed, once again. United had one further chance minutes later as Ryan Giggs ran through but the Welsh 'wizard's sorcery came to nothing as he wasted the chance, spending too much time dwelling on the ball.

Those misses were to prove costly for United as City sensationally took the lead moments later as Phil Neville's poor control allowed Graeme Murty to steal in and the pacey winger played a great ball to Barnes who turned brilliantly and then from all of 25 yards the striker unleashed a powerful shot which may have taken the slightest of deflections on the way towards goal but it was enough to fool dozey keeper Pilkington who managed to somehow dive over the ball and the ball squirmed away from the feminine-looking keeper's grasp, sending jubilant City fans wild and simultaneously shocking the footballing world. Arrogant United fans and players alike were clearly rattled but in truth it was no more than City deserved for their gallant efforts.

As half time approached, it was City who were continuously causing United problems as United struggled to get to grips with City's solid midfield, which saw David Beckham booked as United became increasingly frustrated by City's flowing football. On the one occasion, in the remainder of the half, that they did manage to venture forward Ryan Giggs blasted high and wide to the delight of City fans whilst York gave the reds' fans a huge scare as Nicky Peverell tormented debutant Pat McGibbon before charging down a clearance from 'keeper Pilkington but fortunately for United, the former Hartlepool striker was forced wide and the chance went begging.

In the second half, United, on the back of five consecutive Premiership wins, started to put City under intense pressure with Ryan Giggs causing York's defence all kinds of problems but they were still unable to break York's resistance and the pressure was soon relieved moments later as the Minstermen doubled their lead

Andy McMillan picked up the ball in his own half and played a fantastic long ball from deep which found Paul Barnes who got in front of McGibbon and the young defender panicked and as Barnes homed in on goal, McGibbon committed a professional foul inside the penalty area and there was never any doubt that the Irishman would be sent off and that a penalty would awarded to City - despite ignorant protests from big-headed halfwits like Beckham. Barnes picked himself up and stroked home the resulting penalty in style, sending Pilkington the wrong way from the spot.

And if that was hard enough to believe for football fans around the world, it was to get better still as City fans were left pinching themselves as moments later City scored a third as Pallister fouled Peverell 40 yards out and Pepper's free kick was met with a firm header from Tony Barras who beat dozey keeper Pilkington to the ball and send City fans into dreamland as they taunted the shocked United fans with chants of "what's it like to be outclassed?" and the ultimate insult - 'are you Scarborough in disguise?'
At this stage City were toying with United as the European giants almost went four down moments later as Nicky Peverell burst through the shaky United back three but, staring glory in the face, he shot over the bar when well placed inside the area.

United brought on Steve Bruce to tighten up their defence but within minutes of coming on, Bruce found himself rounding his own 'keeper as Pilkington once again dithered and had it not been for Bruce, Peverell would have made amends for his miss moments earlier. City should definitely have found themselves sitting on a four goal advantage moments later however as Darren Williams dissected the reds' international backline for Barnes to smash the ball past Pilkington but linesman, Mr Haxby, who had not put a foot wrong all night (despite the opinions of a handful of United fans - obviously oblivious to football), ruled that Barnes had strayed offside although video evidence later proved that Barnes' third should have been allowed to stand and City's victory should've been even more emphatic.

Late on Kiely made a couple of superb saves to deny Beckham and McClair when both seemed certain to score and even with ten men, after Paul Baker had received two highly debatable bookings after coming on as sub, City held out and even had one further chance to increase their lead as Pilkington once again hesitated and Williams' almost nipped in to head a fourth but was denied by the young 'keeper. Afterwards, club officials declared the win was the greatest achievement in the club's 74-year history, as City had not only beaten one of, if not the best club in football, but comprehensively thrashed them.

Here is the official Manchester United commentary from the game, as Paul Barnes fires City into a 1-0 lead at Old Trafford. The commentator says "...by the man in the number seven shirt. - no, it's not Cantona yet, it's Neville tonight. Barnes...with a shot, takes a deflection...OH DEAR ME, it wrong footed Kevin Pilkington - and York City have taken the lead at Old Trafford! And boy is he happy. Well you have to give credit to Paul Barnes, he was all alone on the edge of the eighteen-yard box, thought it was worth a try, chanced his luck, took a deflection, completely wrong-footed Kevin Pilkington and news will now be filtering around the nation of a shock on the cards at Old Trafford."

[Spiritof98]

John Terry has escaped punishment once again from the FA, for being the England Captain he has been let of the hook for trying to grab the refs Red card on Sunday past instead the FA has fined chelsea as a club, with the rumours that circulated last year against Spurs, is this man untouchable.

Chelsea charged over Man Utd game 

Terry and his colleagues surround Mike Dean after the red card
The Football Association has charged Chelsea for failing to control their players during the 2-0 defeat away at Manchester United on Sunday.
Assistant boss Steve Clarke has also been charged with using abusive and/or insulting words towards officials.

Chelsea were incensed by referee Mike Dean's decision to send off Nigerian midfielder Mikel Jon Obi in the first half for a challenge on Patrice Evra.

Chelsea and Clarke have until 12 October to respond to the charges.


The Blues contested Mikel's red card, but the FA rejected their appeal and his three-match ban was upheld.

England captain John Terry has not been sanctioned, after he appeared to grab Dean's red card as he was sending Mikel off.
Reports suggested Dean had included Terry's actions in his official report, but only Chelsea and Clarke have been charged by the FA.

The last 18 months have seen Chelsea embroiled in a series of run-ins with the English game's governing body.

In April 2006, they were fined £10,000 for the same charge of failing to control players after members of the team surrounded referee Mark Halsey during a match against West Brom.

They were given a further £10,000 fine and warned as to their future conduct by an FA disciplinary commission after again being found guilty of failing to control their players during a 1-0 Premiership defeat at Fulham, a charge which the club had denied.

Last season Chelsea were handed a £100,000 fine and reprimanded for their part in a brawl with Arsenal players during the Carling Cup final.

[Norf Tyrone]

Of course JT should've been booked/sanctioned whatever....but as you say the reasons why they didn't are clear. In addition why did Hackett phone Benitez to apologise, but hasn't phoned Grant to apologise for Dean's performance on Sunday?


Posted this on the Chelsea thread...

Is this a joke???
Liverpool v Chelsea, and the Blues get a disputed penalty. Liverpool players surround the ref....
Pompey v Liverpool, and Pompey get a disputed penalty. Liverpool players surround the ref.....
United v Chelsea, and Obi Mikel commits a foul. Unted players surround the ref demdaning action....the ref produces red card.

Same incident...and Chelsea players surround the ref contesting decision.

Of the 4 events, can anyone explain why Chelsea are the only team the FA charged with failing to control their players. The exact same thing happened last season as well.

[full back]

Of course JT should've been booked/sanctioned whatever....but as you say the reasons why they didn't are clear. In addition why did Hackett phone Benitez to apologise, but hasn't phoned Grant to apologise for Dean's performance on Sunday?


Posted this on the Chelsea thread...

Is this a joke???
Liverpool v Chelsea, and the Blues get a disputed penalty. Liverpool players surround the ref....
Pompey v Liverpool, and Pompey get a disputed penalty. Liverpool players surround the ref.....
United v Chelsea, and Obi Mikel commits a foul. Unted players surround the ref demdaning action....the ref produces red card.

Same incident...and Chelsea players surround the ref contesting decision.

Of the 4 events, can anyone explain why Chelsea are the only team the FA charged with failing to control their players. The exact same thing happened last season as well.

In the first 3 events, how many players attempted to pull the card from the referee?

[Norf Tyrone]

In the first 3 events, how many players attempted to pull the card from the referee?

Come on...he didn't try to pull the red card from the ref. He put his hand on it....big difference. Anyhow back to the point....is surrounding the ref allowed? IMHO the first 3 incidents are as bad (Or as innocuous depending on perspective) as the Chelsea one on Sunday.

[Balboa]

In fairness both penalties against Liverpool were ridiculous so the players were well within their rights.......

[Norf Tyrone]

In fairness both penalties against Liverpool were ridiculous so the players were well within their rights.......

That's irrelevant Balbao....And for the record the Pompey one was a penalty.

[FermPundit]

Another good win for United this evening. Overall team performance was just ok but a win is a win. I thought Carrick was outstanding again today. His range of passing was excellent and he controlled midfield. Scholes was quiet again. It's been a rather strange start to the season for himself and Giggs. Giggs was off the pace of the game. He gave the ball away on a number of occasions which was very frustrating.

Tevez seems to be improving with every game he plays although I don't think the partnership with Rooney will work. I would start Saha and would play either Tevez or Rooney in the holding role. Although if United continue to win game Fergie will be reluctant to change things.

I hope the injury to Van Der Sar isn't too serious. He has been in excellent form this season and the United defence look very solid when he's behind them.

[Over the Bar]

Despite the good run results, United deffo are not playing well.  At their best no-one else can live with them, but the midfield were outplayed for long period this evening and the defence at times was shambolic.  They'd need to sharpen their act for the challenges ahead in Europe and since Arsenal look like the most likely title challengers Uited need to beat them to show who's top dog.

[Square Ball]

Louis Saha makes his first Manchester United start since February for the visit of Roma. The Frenchman will partner Wayne Rooney and Nai also comes in with Ryan Giggs and Carlos Tevez dropping to the bench. John O'Shea replaces the injured Wes Brown at right-back and Tomasz Kuszczak starts in goal.

[Square Ball]

Not much of a game so far, little in the way of excitement or goal mouth action. Its crying out for Saha, oh forgot, hes been on from the start.