Ballaghaderreen - what is the gig?

[ziggy90]

I don't see anyone denying that. Why did they play for Ros then? Btw was the last man from Ballagh club to win an AI winners football medal not a Roscommon man?

[/b]

Mayo 2006 all Ireland under 21 champions
K O'Malley; T Howley, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; C Barrett, T Cunniffe, C Boyle; S O'Shea, B Moran; A Campbell, J Dillon (Ballaghaderreen), A Kilcoyne; M Ronaldson, M Hannick, M Conroy. Subs - S Ryder, K Costello, E Varley.

I can't find any evidence for this only I have seen the man's medal but hasn't a certain Pat Fleming won an over 40's medal since then.

[Syferus]

Plenty of great handballers have played for Ballagh, like Dessie Keegan and Joe McCann. If not for Paul Brady their trophy cabinets would be five times larger than they are.

[Farrandeelin]

Trust me, I didn't actually mix up Gorthaganny with anywhere.

[ziggy90]

I don't see anyone denying that. Why did they play for Ros then? Btw was the last man from Ballagh club to win an AI winners football medal not a Roscommon man?

[/b]

Mayo 2006 all Ireland under 21 champions
K O'Malley; T Howley, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; C Barrett, T Cunniffe, C Boyle; S O'Shea, B Moran; A Campbell, J Dillon (Ballaghaderreen), A Kilcoyne; M Ronaldson, M Hannick, M Conroy. Subs - S Ryder, K Costello, E Varley.

I can't find any evidence for this only I have seen the man's medal but hasn't a certain Pat Fleming won an over 40's medal since then.

http://mayogaablog.com/?p=4064

Read what Willie Joe has to say here. Scroll down to categories, select over 40s' and go from there.

[Syferus]

Trust me, I didn't actually mix up Gorthaganny with anywhere.

I was responding to Lar's comments with the second paragraph.

[ross4life]

Mixing up Gorthaganny with Loughglynn that has to be one of the worst research jobs ever. Well done Lar at least your getting a history lesson within this thread . Farrandeelin plenty of Roscommon people hasn't been born here what's your point exactly?

[ziggy90]

Mixing up Gorthaganny with Loughglynn that has to be one of the worst research jobs ever. Well done Lar at least your getting a history lesson within this thread . Farrandeelin plenty of Roscommon people hasn't been born here what's your point exactly?

I think he might have spent a whileen too long in Mollys.

[joemamas]

Ah yes, the first Ballaghadereen 'tug of love' thread of 2012.
The championship must be upon us.

Wait until Sligonian gets his knickers in a twist over Charlestown-Bellaghy 

Wait for a month, until Sligo are beaten and then he will go on his annual rant. On second thoughts, dont, this could reach 200 pages.

[Lar Naparka]

Mixing up Gorthaganny with Loughglynn that has to be one of the worst research jobs ever. Well done Lar at least your getting a history lesson within this thread . Farrandeelin plenty of Roscommon people hasn't been born here what's your point exactly?

Maybe I'm missing something but, for the life of me, I can't find a single instance where I mixed Gorthaganny up with Loughglynn. I can't help it if some of you start jumping to conclusions and don't bother to read what I wrote, can I?
I referred to Loughglynn as a town and maybe that's causing a few of yeer noses to go out of joint. Well, a Loughglynn resident I know well called it a town and that's good enough for me.
Maybe we might agree that it's a large village so yiz can stop whinging.
Gorthaganny is in the parish of Loughglynn or it was the last time I called by.
If you are still unhappy, call the PP and tell him his chapel of ease out in Gorthaganny has gone AWOL or something like that.
Therefore, the Earleys were Loughglynn parishioners. I dunno why this is important to anyone but some of you are bleating about something and this might be it.

Under the terms of the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 the civil parishes of Kilcolman and Castlemore were transferred from Mayo to Roscommon.
That included Ballagh and Gorthaganny also, btw.
I am not absolutely certain about Loughglynn as them Civil Parishes were funny yokes and didn't necessarily correspond with RC ones. But I have read that the original Dillon (Loughglynn House) estate of 3,000 acres was situated mainly in Co. Mayo.
Now Ballagh club was founded in 1886 and straight away applied for membership to the Mayo CB. That's 12/13 years before the political boundaries were changed, putting Ballagh and the rest into Roscommon for civil administration purposes.

Now, I know of no law of God or man that says politics must be above sport or that GAA clubs must follow political directives in deciding which CB they should affiliate with.
If you follow the woolly logic of saying Ballagh must play in Roscommon because political planners drew a line on a map, you must also agree that Dublin ought to be split in four because there are now four local administration divisions within its historical boundaries.
While you are at it, how 'bout splitting Tipp in two as there are two county councils there?

[Syferus]

Mixing up Gorthaganny with Loughglynn that has to be one of the worst research jobs ever. Well done Lar at least your getting a history lesson within this thread . Farrandeelin plenty of Roscommon people hasn't been born here what's your point exactly?

Maybe I'm missing something but, for the life of me, I can't find a single instance where I mixed Gorthaganny up with Loughglynn. I can't help it if some of you start jumping to conclusions and don't bother to read what I wrote, can I?
I referred to Loughglynn as a town and maybe that's causing a few of yeer noses to go out of joint. Well, a Loughglynn resident I know well called it a town and that's good enough for me.
Maybe we might agree that it's a large village so yiz can stop whinging.
Gorthaganny is in the parish of Loughglynn or it was the last time I called by.
If you are still unhappy, call the PP and tell him his chapel of ease out in Gorthaganny has gone AWOL or something like that.
Therefore, the Earleys were Loughglynn parishioners. I dunno why this is important to anyone but some of you are bleating about something and this might be it.

Under the terms of the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 the civil parishes of Kilcolman and Castlemore were transferred from Mayo to Roscommon.
That included Ballagh and Gorthaganny also, btw.
I am not absolutely certain about Loughglynn as them Civil Parishes were funny yokes and didn't necessarily correspond with RC ones. But I have read that the original Dillon (Loughglynn House) estate of 3,000 acres was situated mainly in Co. Mayo.
Now Ballagh club was founded in 1886 and straight away applied for membership to the Mayo CB. That's 12/13 years before the political boundaries were changed, putting Ballagh and the rest into Roscommon for civil administration purposes.

Now, I know of no law of God or man that says politics must be above sport or that GAA clubs must follow political directives in deciding which CB they should affiliate with.
If you follow the woolly logic of saying Ballagh must play in Roscommon because political planners drew a line on a map, you must also agree that Dublin ought to be split in four because there are now four local administration divisions within its historical boundaries.
While you are at it, how 'bout splitting Tipp in two as there are two county councils there?

I don't know what drunken parishioner you're sourcing your information from but Loughglynn and Gorthaganny, or any other local village that you're attempting to bring into question were never in Mayo at any point in their history. The Demesne, where the Dllions' house was (it was last a Franciscan convent, which itself closed a few years ago), is outside Loughglynn proper.

The fact that when you post a letter to Loughglynn or Gorthaganny the address contains Castelrea and not Ballagh tells its own story - why would they have switched Loughglynn's postal address if their 'mother', and fellow Mayo, town of Ballagh was also being moved into Roscommon? The simple fact The Demesne has always been associated with Loughglynn tells you that the house and the local part of the estate were probably in Roscommon. The Dllions estate was mostly in Mayo, which tells you at least part of it was in Roscommon. 'Common sense, good man.

You're wrong on this one. Retreat, like the Mayo county border. 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Mixing up Gorthaganny with Loughglynn that has to be one of the worst research jobs ever. Well done Lar at least your getting a history lesson within this thread . Farrandeelin plenty of Roscommon people hasn't been born here what's your point exactly?

Maybe I'm missing something but, for the life of me, I can't find a single instance where I mixed Gorthaganny up with Loughglynn. I can't help it if some of you start jumping to conclusions and don't bother to read what I wrote, can I?
I referred to Loughglynn as a town and maybe that's causing a few of yeer noses to go out of joint. Well, a Loughglynn resident I know well called it a town and that's good enough for me.
Maybe we might agree that it's a large village so yiz can stop whinging.
Gorthaganny is in the parish of Loughglynn or it was the last time I called by.
If you are still unhappy, call the PP and tell him his chapel of ease out in Gorthaganny has gone AWOL or something like that.
Therefore, the Earleys were Loughglynn parishioners. I dunno why this is important to anyone but some of you are bleating about something and this might be it.

Under the terms of the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 the civil parishes of Kilcolman and Castlemore were transferred from Mayo to Roscommon.
That included Ballagh and Gorthaganny also, btw.
I am not absolutely certain about Loughglynn as them Civil Parishes were funny yokes and didn't necessarily correspond with RC ones. But I have read that the original Dillon (Loughglynn House) estate of 3,000 acres was situated mainly in Co. Mayo.
Now Ballagh club was founded in 1886 and straight away applied for membership to the Mayo CB. That's 12/13 years before the political boundaries were changed, putting Ballagh and the rest into Roscommon for civil administration purposes.

Now, I know of no law of God or man that says politics must be above sport or that GAA clubs must follow political directives in deciding which CB they should affiliate with.
If you follow the woolly logic of saying Ballagh must play in Roscommon because political planners drew a line on a map, you must also agree that Dublin ought to be split in four because there are now four local administration divisions within its historical boundaries.
While you are at it, how 'bout splitting Tipp in two as there are two county councils there?

I don't know what drunken parishioner you're sourcing your information from but Loughglynn and Gorthaganny, or any other local village that you're attempting to bring into question were never in Mayo at any point in their history. The Demesne, where the Dllions' house was (it was last a Franciscan convent, which itself closed a few years ago), is outside Loughglynn proper.

The fact that when you post a letter to Loughglynn or Gorthaganny the address contains Castelrea and not Ballagh tells its own story - why would they have switched Loughglynn's postal address if their 'mother', and fellow Mayo, town of Ballagh was also being moved into Roscommon? The simple fact The Demesne has always been associated with Loughglynn tells you that the house and the local part of the estate were probably in Roscommon. The Dllions estate was mostly in Mayo, which tells you at least part of it was in Roscommon. 'Common sense, good man.

You're wrong on this one. Retreat, like the Mayo county border. 

The Delphi Valley's post code is Leenane, County Galway, but its a long long way from being part of Galway. Mayo as you can get.

p.s. if any border is going to retreat anymore its Roscommon, grow Athlone, grow 

[Turlough O Carolan]

Always amazed the amount of nonsense that gets posted from the plains of the yews when the subject of Ballagh crops up.

Amazing how the Rossies are always called blow-ins. Funny enough, some of the most famous Ballagh men who have represented Mayo were from outside the town. Sean Flanagan was from Aughamore. John O'Mahoney is from Kilmovee. The following Ballagh players who represented Mayo (no choice if you are from Ballagh unless you move clubs) were and are Roscommon men - Sean Kilbride, Noel Durkin, Andy Moran and Pierce Hanley. Sean Kilbride would later move clubs and play with his home county. His sons represent Roscommon today.

The transfer of Ballaghaderreen across county boundaries was also not some dastardly British act. The Dillons were a nationalist family (Mayogodhelpus re those Brits you kicked out in Ballagh - James Dillon btw went on to lead Fine Gael and continued to keep his address as County Mayo). County boundaries themselves are, however, a British construct. Mayo benefited greatly from boundary changes too getting Ballina. Roscommon lost Athlone.

Ballagh in the early days did transfer to Roscommon for awhile and only moved back to Mayo due to some argument lost in the sands of time.


As for the Earley family - yes they moved from Mayo, but Dermot grew up in Roscommon and went to school in Ballaghaderreen. His father, the great Peader Earley, also founded the Michael Glaveys club in 1956. Most counties have benefited in some way from families moving in - Mayo have done very well themselves. Who knows: Roscommon might have been a hurling superpower had Eddie Keher's family not moved to Kilkenny. His cousin did win an All-Ireland junior hurling medal with Ros in the 60s.

Today Roscommon natives in Ballaghaderreen still cannot represent their native county - unless they move their home town. As someone who grew up there, that still galls me. I will say the zeal in which they have prevented Ros players from playing with their native county has often gone beyond the beyonds. There was a lot of skullduggery in preventing the second club - St John's - from going ahead and it was voted down by the Connacht Council in the early 90s when Mayo, Galway and Leitrim voted against it. I wonder why these counties felt they had the right to prevent Roscommon people playing with their native county - who were not at the time doing anything to hinder the local club, but just setting up a second club.

I recall when the girls of the town set up a women's football team that was affiliated with Roscommon, because it so happened there was never a ladies team in the town. The old football field by the convent was owned by the town - not the GAA - and when the girls went to play in this not-in-use pitch (full of rushes and the like), some grown GAA men locked them out for fear a Roscommon gaa club would get a foothold. Mighty men altogether to prevent young girls from playing. Twasn't that long ago that happened either.

One thing they can't stop is the huge support for Ros in the town - some of the best Ros supporters are Ballagh men and women.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Lads, sorry to butt in here, but can someone clarify for me. A player who plays for Ballaghadereen is NOT allowed to declare for Roscommon..is that the case?

There is a similar type scenario down here on the Kerry/Cork border in Ballydesmond (home club of Donnacha O'Connor amongst others). Ballydesmond, parrish is actually split by the border...most of is in Cork, but part of it is in Kerry. Now I'm not sure what arrangement the GAA have in place for this, but in a Munster Junior c/ship game a few years back there were players from Ballydesmond GAA club on opposing sides when Kerry played Cork! Niall Fleming, who plays with Ballydesmond and Duhallow in the Cork senior c/ship is from the Kerry side and declared for us..decent player too.
Now, given that similar situation, I cannot understand how a player with Ballaghadereen (which is in Roscommon after all) cannot be allowed to declare for Ros. Its a very strange scenario.

[Lar Naparka]

Always amazed the amount of nonsense that gets posted from the plains of the yews when the subject of Ballagh crops up.

Amazing how the Rossies are always called blow-ins. Funny enough, some of the most famous Ballagh men who have represented Mayo were from outside the town. Sean Flanagan was from Aughamore. John O'Mahoney is from Kilmovee. The following Ballagh players who represented Mayo (no choice if you are from Ballagh unless you move clubs) were and are Roscommon men - Sean Kilbride, Noel Durkin, Andy Moran and Pierce Hanley. Sean Kilbride would later move clubs and play with his home county. His sons represent Roscommon today.

The transfer of Ballaghaderreen across county boundaries was also not some dastardly British act. The Dillons were a nationalist family (Mayogodhelpus re those Brits you kicked out in Ballagh - James Dillon btw went on to lead Fine Gael and continued to keep his address as County Mayo). County boundaries themselves are, however, a British construct. Mayo benefited greatly from boundary changes too getting Ballina. Roscommon lost Athlone.

Ballagh in the early days did transfer to Roscommon for awhile and only moved back to Mayo due to some argument lost in the sands of time.


As for the Earley family - yes they moved from Mayo, but Dermot grew up in Roscommon and went to school in Ballaghaderreen. His father, the great Peader Earley, also founded the Michael Glaveys club in 1956. Most counties have benefited in some way from families moving in - Mayo have done very well themselves. Who knows: Roscommon might have been a hurling superpower had Eddie Keher's family not moved to Kilkenny. His cousin did win an All-Ireland junior hurling medal with Ros in the 60s.

Today Roscommon natives in Ballaghaderreen still cannot represent their native county - unless they move their home town. As someone who grew up there, that still galls me. I will say the zeal in which they have prevented Ros players from playing with their native county has often gone beyond the beyonds. There was a lot of skullduggery in preventing the second club - St John's - from going ahead and it was voted down by the Connacht Council in the early 90s when Mayo, Galway and Leitrim voted against it. I wonder why these counties felt they had the right to prevent Roscommon people playing with their native county - who were not at the time doing anything to hinder the local club, but just setting up a second club.

I recall when the girls of the town set up a women's football team that was affiliated with Roscommon, because it so happened there was never a ladies team in the town. The old football field by the convent was owned by the town - not the GAA - and when the girls went to play in this not-in-use pitch (full of rushes and the like), some grown GAA men locked them out for fear a Roscommon gaa club would get a foothold. Mighty men altogether to prevent young girls from playing. Twasn't that long ago that happened either.

One thing they can't stop is the huge support for Ros in the town - some of the best Ros supporters are Ballagh men and women.

Good too see you are still about, Turlough. I was beginning to worry that you were not going to rise re-appear and join in the annual moanfest that you Rossies regale us with; without fail, the bleating and baaing begins in the run up to the championships.
For some people the rise of mayfly on the Moy heralds the arrival of summer, while for others it's call of the cuckoo or the spectacle of swallows skimming across the meadows.
But I'm of a more prosaic turn of mind. When the sheepophiles resume their clamouring to get back what they never had to begin with, I know championship time is just around the next bend.
Mind you, this year the moaning  has begun earlier than usual- must be that there's feck all else to worry the lot of ye.
I know that getting reason from a Rossie is like getting milk from a bull but in the cause of good fellowship and harmony between our peoples, I'm prepared to have another lash at pointing out the (GAA) facts of life to all who have eyes and are willing to listen.

The idea that sport should be above politics plays no part in the Rossie psyche or so it appears.
The sole reason being put forward claiming  Ballagh GAA club should play its football in Roscommon is that it is in Roscommon for local government reasons.
In other words, football should come second to politics.
Now, if there is merit in that argument, why isn't Dublin split into four regions and shouldn't the present (GAA) county of Tipperary operate as two separate entities?
I have laboured in vain trying to get that point of elementary logic across to your companions on this board but so far it's been like attempting to play handball against a haystack.
No matte how hard or often I've tried or how magnanimous or conciliatory I have been, I wind up back at square one very time.
Ballagh plays its football in Mayo because the membership opted to affiliate with the Mayo CB when the club was founded. Obviously, it made sense to do so- at least at that time.
(Jaysus, I don't want to get into knots about PLUs and Civil vs. RC parishes and Grand Juries and all that stuff again.)
The Dillons may well have been Nationalists of a sort but that didn't stop them opting for the best deal available at any time and 'Johneen' was influential in getting the civil parishes of Castlemore and Kilcolman transferred to the new Roscommon jurisdiction. The rate struck was lower than the one he'd have to pony up in Mayo.
There was, and is, no compelling reason for the Ballagh GAA club to change anything it does. Either they are right to stay out of politics or they are not.
I suggest they are.
However, if the membership of this club decided to change its present policies in any way, I feel they would be quite entitled to do so.

On a serious note, the potential for trouble has always been there where county and club catchments areas are concerned because there is no set standard to follow. The GAA club, in theory at ay rate, is based on the RC parish, which is not the same as the civil parish which was a unit of local government administration. I think its fair to say that the county as a unit of administration only came into prominence after that local govt. act of 1898.
If the members of Ballagh GAA club wish to remain affiliated with Mayo that is their entitlement.

Incidentally, I don't understand what the fuss over Gorthaganny is all about.
I mentioned the case of the Earley brothers playing for Roscommon to back my argument that it wasn't a case of gain all the way for Mayo when the boundaries were changed and Ballagh opted to stay with Mayo. The lads played for the nearest club in their vicinity as they were quite entitled to do.

[Captain Obvious]

Lads, sorry to butt in here, but can someone clarify for me. A player who plays for Ballaghadereen is NOT allowed to declare for Roscommon..is that the case?

There is a similar type scenario down here on the Kerry/Cork border in Ballydesmond (home club of Donnacha O'Connor amongst others). Ballydesmond, parrish is actually split by the border...most of is in Cork, but part of it is in Kerry. Now I'm not sure what arrangement the GAA have in place for this, but in a Munster Junior c/ship game a few years back there were players from Ballydesmond GAA club on opposing sides when Kerry played Cork! Niall Fleming, who plays with Ballydesmond and Duhallow in the Cork senior c/ship is from the Kerry side and declared for us..decent player too.
Now, given that similar situation, I cannot understand how a player with Ballaghadereen (which is in Roscommon after all) cannot be allowed to declare for Ros. Its a very strange scenario.

The current Mayo captain is from Ballaghadereen county Roscommon which makes it even a stranger scenario.