Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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armaghniac

Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2018, 06:45:54 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 25, 2018, 12:52:26 AM

The Brits have already agreed to the backstop in the event of no deal. Right?

No.  The backstop only happens if there is a deal. No deal means the entire UK exists the EU on March 29th and all EU / UK co-operation stops at that point (that's why it's often referred to as the "cliff edge").

Nevertheless, in December London agreed that NI would remain in SIngle Market whether or not there was a deal, so if this does not happen then it is perfidy of the highest order and should be identified as such.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2018, 06:58:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2018, 06:54:16 AM

QuoteA deal means an arrangement on customs and/or Single Market. The only Border post Brexit with the EU is in Ulster. If there is no deal NI and RoI will have different trade rules so there has to be a backstop to avoid chaos.

Seafoid, all of that makes logical sense.  However, there has to be a Deal for their to be a backstop.  There has to be a Deal for NI to be treated differently from England.  If there is no agreement (or a Deal) that NI will be treated differently (where a backstop is part of that "being treated differently") then NI, like England would leave the EU next March.
This is why the UK / EU getting a Deal is so important for NI.
If there is no deal there will have to be a hard border ....
I think there will be a deal, maybe after extra time. I don't think it will go to penalities
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Hardy

Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2018, 09:43:20 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2018, 06:45:54 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 25, 2018, 12:52:26 AM

The Brits have already agreed to the backstop in the event of no deal. Right?

No.  The backstop only happens if there is a deal. No deal means the entire UK exists the EU on March 29th and all EU / UK co-operation stops at that point (that's why it's often referred to as the "cliff edge").

Nevertheless, in December London agreed that NI would remain in SIngle Market whether or not there was a deal, so if this does not happen then it is perfidy of the highest order and should be identified as such.

It's perfidy already. They've backslid from the backstop commitment without as much as a blush.

seafoid

Quote from: Hardy on October 25, 2018, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2018, 09:43:20 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2018, 06:45:54 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 25, 2018, 12:52:26 AM

The Brits have already agreed to the backstop in the event of no deal. Right?

No.  The backstop only happens if there is a deal. No deal means the entire UK exists the EU on March 29th and all EU / UK co-operation stops at that point (that's why it's often referred to as the "cliff edge").

Nevertheless, in December London agreed that NI would remain in SIngle Market whether or not there was a deal, so if this does not happen then it is perfidy of the highest order and should be identified as such.

It's perfidy already. They've backslid from the backstop commitment without as much as a blush.
What do you expect from la perfide Albion, Hardy ? 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

mouview

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2018, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 04:04:45 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45967507

Irony alert!

Yeah watched it on the news and wondered why they didn't put that question back to them?

Looks increasingly like no deal

Given that the 1922 gang backed down last evening without as much as a timid whimper, I'd say the chances of 'No Deal' have receded somewhat, and it increases the chances of May winning support from her own side for whatever deal she brings back from Brussels. Presumably Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc. have finally realised what the forthcoming apocalypse of a Hard Brexit would look like.

Paradoxically, the closer it gets to a 'No Deal', I think there's less chance of it actually happening as fear concentrates the mind. I'm sure the British public don't like to see the possibility of ships being chartered to ferry food, medicine etc. Still hoping against hope for another referendum.

Applesisapples

Quote from: screenexile on October 23, 2018, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 23, 2018, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 23, 2018, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 23, 2018, 11:19:32 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 23, 2018, 10:32:26 AM
The one point this whole Brexit thing has reinforced for me, is how even when they are in a minority unionism and the British State continues to diminish the Irish identity of 45% of NI. And worse still we let it.

Well, if the Shinners would bother their hole to go to Westminster and take the position of "we'll vote the opposite of whatever the DUP votes to (mostly) nullify their veto", then maybe things could inch forward.
Bullshit, why would they take their seats in a foreign parliament and swear allegiance to the Queen?

Why stand for election then?

So themmuns don't get in!!
Building the mandate.

Hardy

Quote from: mouview on October 25, 2018, 11:55:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2018, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 24, 2018, 04:04:45 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45967507

Irony alert!

Yeah watched it on the news and wondered why they didn't put that question back to them?

Looks increasingly like no deal

Given that the 1922 gang backed down last evening without as much as a timid whimper, I'd say the chances of 'No Deal' have receded somewhat, and it increases the chances of May winning support from her own side for whatever deal she brings back from Brussels. Presumably Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc. have finally realised what the forthcoming apocalypse of a Hard Brexit would look like.

Paradoxically, the closer it gets to a 'No Deal', I think there's less chance of it actually happening as fear concentrates the mind. I'm sure the British public don't like to see the possibility of ships being chartered to ferry food, medicine etc. Still hoping against hope for another referendum.

To add to that, it's reasonable to assume that sack of shit, Johnson will now pursue his political ambitions by presenting himself as the hero on the bridge who tried manfully but failed to halt Brexit and will point to the inevitable economic downturn that will follow any Brexit outcome as proof the he was right and Britain has been denied it's golden dawn by a Brexit-in-name-only.

haranguerer

I think Johnson has well and truly been seen through now by all. A beaten docket in terms of whats important to him, which is nothing other than his own personal success

tiempo

Quote from: haranguerer on October 25, 2018, 03:00:06 PM
I think Johnson has well and truly been seen through now by all. A beaten docket in terms of whats important to him, which is nothing other than his own personal success

Never overestimate the English electorate, delicately poised as ever and this dog could have its day, dangerous bastard all round, complete egomaniac nut job war criminal in waiting.

seafoid

Quote from: haranguerer on October 25, 2018, 03:00:06 PM
I think Johnson has well and truly been seen through now by all. A beaten docket in terms of whats important to him, which is nothing other than his own personal success
the Brexit heads don't seem to have any arguments left and are more like dogs in the manger of Westminster due to the numbers
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

haranguerer

Quote from: tiempo on October 25, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on October 25, 2018, 03:00:06 PM
I think Johnson has well and truly been seen through now by all. A beaten docket in terms of whats important to him, which is nothing other than his own personal success

Never overestimate the English electorate, delicately poised as ever and this dog could have its day, dangerous b**tard all round, complete egomaniac nut job war criminal in waiting.

The electorate don't choose the leader of the tories

omagh_gael

According to twitter there was a very bumpy cabinet meeting this evening with a significant verification event for May's plans on Thursday now cancelled. Sources saying there'll be no further discussions until after Monday's budget.

The more I hear of these crises the more weight I'm putting on it being a charade that May etc are putting on and sometime after the budget they'll fall back and accept the NI backstop (border of some description in Irish sea). They'll push the budget through and drop the DUP.

Crazy info leaking out that they've already run out of time to implement large swathes of No Deal preparations reinforces the notion that there is a deal already agreed in the background and what we are seeing now are the theatrics leading up to the final act.

seafoid

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Applesisapples

Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 12:15:49 PM
A level economics. Explain how the DUP position on Brexit supports the NI economy .

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/80-jobs-facing-axe-at-antrim-windows-and-doors-manufacturer-37463226.html
Their argument regarding more trade with the rest of the UK is skewed according to Bertie. He says that more jobs are supported by cross border trade and that NI UK trade is skewed by a few large value transactions.