Joe Brolly

Started by randomtask, July 31, 2011, 05:28:31 PM

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Geoff Tipps

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/)

The dropped ball was the result of him over-analysing the intercepted kickouts and the fact he had been dropped after the Galway game and had no game time since, i.e. no confidence. Keegan getting a black card wouldn't have helped his mindset but this wasn't/shouldn't be on him as the foul itself wasn't a black card. Not withstanding the error of the dropped ball, the bigger error here was the award of a penalty for what was a legitimate reach for the ball by Hennelly and indeed he succeeded in breaking the ball away from Paddy Andrews. The contact with Andrews comes after the ball has broken away. Now from the camera angle that gives Deegans view of the incident you can understand why he gave a penalty, which is why I believe we have to use video technology for big decisions like this where it is available.

So from the 1-1 and the black card that you say came directly from his errors the stats and video say that Keegan should have remained on the field, the penalty shouldn't have been awarded and up to that point Hennelly had a positive net return of 4 points from his kickouts. The popular opinion will be to lambaste Hennelly, and Rochford for picking him, but I don't think the winter will be as long for them once they have gone through their post match analysis.

You can link it directly back to that incident?? Wow.
There's no point in debating the decisions that resulted from his mistakes. His mistakes led directly to Mayo conceding 1-1. There's no getting away from that.
No one in their right mind would say anything other than his performance was very poor, sub standard, call it what you will.

Jinxy

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 11, 2016, 11:45:52 AM
In my eyes, Joe is a compulsive attention seeker and often mars his contributions, which can be insightful, with puerile jokes and carefully planned "off the cuff" witticisms that makes his fellow panelists come across as rocket scientists by comparison.
Some years ago, Monaghan played Tyrone (I think) in an Ulster final. Tommy Freeman who works as a roofer badly injured his right hand. While working on a roof, he managed to drive a Hilti nail through his hand. There was considerable doubt about his fitness to play in the run in to the game and when he did appear, his right hand was heavily bandaged.
O'Rourke and the other pair in the studio expressed their sympathies and praised the man for his grit and determination to play despite the obvious pain.
Brolly, on the other hand, found something to laugh about in Freeman's misfortune and kept wisecracking about his carelessness from beginning to end.
At one stage as Freeman prepared to take a free, Brolly chipped in with a snide remark along the lines of he'd better be more careful with the free than he was with his nail guin or God knows what damage he might do.
None of the others from beginning to end paid any attention to his smart arse, running commentary but, undaunted, he kept on looking for laughs until the end of the programme.
Another time, O'Rourke's son was playing in the AI minor final  and Meath were getting a pasting from Kerry. When coverage switched to the Lyster and his panellists, the closing few minutes of the minor game could be seen in the background.
Jeez, Brolly couldn't shut up about what was happening and sarted ribbiing O'Rourke about his son and what he must be feeling. O'Rourke's reply was simple and traight to the point.
"Look,," sez he," Shane will have other days. Now let's get on with what we are being paid for."
Another time, one of O'Rourke's racehorses was in the news for something or other and, once again, Brolly tried to rib him about it. O'Rourke again kept his cool and told Joe they weren't there for the horse racing and (guess what?) once again suggested that maybe they should stick to what they were supposed to be doing.
Okay, others may not agree with me but for me it's a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Many of his excellent analyses can be ruined by his need to seek cheap publicity- more sound bytes than common sense.

The worst dig Brolly had at O'Rourke was his reference to NAMA.
Completely inappropriate and mean-spirited.
The thing I've realised about Joe is that he has zero emotional intelligence.
The Marty Morrissey incident was a perfect example of this and I'd wager he still doesn't understand why people made such a fuss about that.
Joe's moment of the year was the Mayo kit man who had a lung transplant.
That in itself is a lovely story, but Joe inserted himself right into the middle of it and we saw footage of him speaking to the kit man in the tunnel either before or after a game.
I got the distinct impression watching that clip that the chap himself was not entirely comfortable with this and he tried to go about his business while Joe basically cornered him in front of the camera.
Joe's only saving grace is the organ donation campaign.
However, that to me now seems like an extension of his narcissism, as harsh as that may sound.
I can live with that, however, as his involvement has raised a lot of awareness around the issue and is helping people who need it badly.
That said, it doesn't give him a pass to behave however he wants.
If he is willing to make a joke about the financial difficulties of a colleague he actually respects on live television, god help anyone he doesn't respect.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Croí na hÉireann

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/)

The dropped ball was the result of him over-analysing the intercepted kickouts and the fact he had been dropped after the Galway game and had no game time since, i.e. no confidence. Keegan getting a black card wouldn't have helped his mindset but this wasn't/shouldn't be on him as the foul itself wasn't a black card. Not withstanding the error of the dropped ball, the bigger error here was the award of a penalty for what was a legitimate reach for the ball by Hennelly and indeed he succeeded in breaking the ball away from Paddy Andrews. The contact with Andrews comes after the ball has broken away. Now from the camera angle that gives Deegans view of the incident you can understand why he gave a penalty, which is why I believe we have to use video technology for big decisions like this where it is available.

So from the 1-1 and the black card that you say came directly from his errors the stats and video say that Keegan should have remained on the field, the penalty shouldn't have been awarded and up to that point Hennelly had a positive net return of 4 points from his kickouts. The popular opinion will be to lambaste Hennelly, and Rochford for picking him, but I don't think the winter will be as long for them once they have gone through their post match analysis.

You can link it directly back to that incident?? Wow.
There's no point in debating the decisions that resulted from his mistakes. His mistakes led directly to Mayo conceding 1-1. There's no getting away from that.
No one in their right mind would say anything other than his performance was very poor, sub standard, call it what you will.

You choose to limit the discussion to his mistakes, do the positive aspects of his performance not deserve to be included? I know its not as sexy as pillorying him but people can tune in to the Sunday Game for the easy headlines.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

dferg

I thought Clarkes kickouts could have been better the first day.  Indeed the below article says as much even if it was trying to argue that Clarke should have started the second day.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/goalkeeping-gamble-will-give-the-mayo-football-management-nightmares-long-into-the-winter-35114621.html

Despite the solidity Clarke provides, and the form he was in, the Mayo selection panel was swayed by three poor kick-outs in succession nearing the close of normal time in the drawn game, of which one led to a Dublin score.

The kickouts where killing Mayo when they were trying to get back into the game near the end.  In fairness other players like Seamus O'Shea who were having fairly good games started kicking the ball away as well and was taken off.

It didn't really work out for whatever reason but I can see why the management went with with Hennelly after watching the video of the first game a few times.



As for Brolly the irony of him writing an article about the Hennelly tweet is that Joe would tweet a picture of himself eating his own **** if he thought it would bring the spotlight back on himself if he was not being talked about for more than 2 minutes.

Geoff Tipps

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/)

The dropped ball was the result of him over-analysing the intercepted kickouts and the fact he had been dropped after the Galway game and had no game time since, i.e. no confidence. Keegan getting a black card wouldn't have helped his mindset but this wasn't/shouldn't be on him as the foul itself wasn't a black card. Not withstanding the error of the dropped ball, the bigger error here was the award of a penalty for what was a legitimate reach for the ball by Hennelly and indeed he succeeded in breaking the ball away from Paddy Andrews. The contact with Andrews comes after the ball has broken away. Now from the camera angle that gives Deegans view of the incident you can understand why he gave a penalty, which is why I believe we have to use video technology for big decisions like this where it is available.

So from the 1-1 and the black card that you say came directly from his errors the stats and video say that Keegan should have remained on the field, the penalty shouldn't have been awarded and up to that point Hennelly had a positive net return of 4 points from his kickouts. The popular opinion will be to lambaste Hennelly, and Rochford for picking him, but I don't think the winter will be as long for them once they have gone through their post match analysis.

You can link it directly back to that incident?? Wow.
There's no point in debating the decisions that resulted from his mistakes. His mistakes led directly to Mayo conceding 1-1. There's no getting away from that.
No one in their right mind would say anything other than his performance was very poor, sub standard, call it what you will.

You choose to limit the discussion to his mistakes, do the positive aspects of his performance not deserve to be included? I know its not as sexy as pillorying him but people can tune in to the Sunday Game for the easy headlines.

Yes they do. Do they outweigh the negatives and the impact the mistakes he made (forget about the ref, lack of match practise and any other excuse) had on the game? No they don't.
He had a poor game and was able to put his hand up and acknowledge that.

ballinaman

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/[/url

"Not everything that counts can be measured, not everything that can be measured counts"

muppet

MWWSI 2017

Croí na hÉireann

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 01:35:02 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/)

The dropped ball was the result of him over-analysing the intercepted kickouts and the fact he had been dropped after the Galway game and had no game time since, i.e. no confidence. Keegan getting a black card wouldn't have helped his mindset but this wasn't/shouldn't be on him as the foul itself wasn't a black card. Not withstanding the error of the dropped ball, the bigger error here was the award of a penalty for what was a legitimate reach for the ball by Hennelly and indeed he succeeded in breaking the ball away from Paddy Andrews. The contact with Andrews comes after the ball has broken away. Now from the camera angle that gives Deegans view of the incident you can understand why he gave a penalty, which is why I believe we have to use video technology for big decisions like this where it is available.

So from the 1-1 and the black card that you say came directly from his errors the stats and video say that Keegan should have remained on the field, the penalty shouldn't have been awarded and up to that point Hennelly had a positive net return of 4 points from his kickouts. The popular opinion will be to lambaste Hennelly, and Rochford for picking him, but I don't think the winter will be as long for them once they have gone through their post match analysis.

You can link it directly back to that incident?? Wow.
There's no point in debating the decisions that resulted from his mistakes. His mistakes led directly to Mayo conceding 1-1. There's no getting away from that.
No one in their right mind would say anything other than his performance was very poor, sub standard, call it what you will.

You choose to limit the discussion to his mistakes, do the positive aspects of his performance not deserve to be included? I know its not as sexy as pillorying him but people can tune in to the Sunday Game for the easy headlines.

Yes they do. Do they outweigh the negatives and the impact the mistakes he made (forget about the ref, lack of match practise and any other excuse) had on the game? No they don't.
He had a poor game and was able to put his hand up and acknowledge that.

You have him at fault for 1-1 that came directly from his errors (I make it 0-2 but take the 1-1), yet his long kickouts were the platform for 1-3 that Mayo scored. Does 1-1 > 1-3? Not for me it isn't. His positives probably cancel out his negatives but the popular opinion that he had a very poor game is inaccurate IMO.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

Croí na hÉireann

Quote from: ballinaman on October 11, 2016, 01:41:39 PM
"Not everything that counts can be measured, not everything that can be measured counts"

Absolutely. Did the defence feel less secure without Clarke between the sticks? I'm sure they did. Did they see Hennellys longer kickouts were securing them possession further down the pitch? You'd hope they did.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

Geoff Tipps

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 01:35:02 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
Quote from: ZeitChrist on October 10, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I certainly don't want to pile in on Robbie Hennelly, but he had a very poor day and he needs to take some of the criticism on the chin, as well as Rochford. It's not fair to simply say that it's all on Rochford for picking him, as some have been suggesting. Hennelly made himself available for selection this year and presumably he wanted to play. It's up to him to justify being picked on the day and he didn't. I'm not going to police the guy's personal social media account, but surely there's something to be said for dealing with these things away from the glare of the media? I know he wanted to have his say, but he didn't have to justify himself to the world. He had a bad day. It happens to a lot of players. Just take your medicine and move on.

That said, I don't think there's any need to keep putting the boot in and going over the issue again and again. Brolly's agenda regarding the GPA in his criticism of Robbie Hennelly is obvious and I don't really have a whole lot of time for his opinions generally. Too frequently he claims to be an authority on every ill within the game, and acts as though he knows exactly what's "wrong" with certain teams, or bemoans the creeping professionalism of the game, while also w**king over Dublin at every available opportunity. And he seems utterly incapable of leaving personal criticisms out of it and actually seems to enjoy going after individuals and launching crusades against certain people in the media. Takes a particularly nasty type of person to do that.

I know that's the popular opinion but did he really?

Yes he did. No getting away from that.

Outline where he came up so short so?

Poor kickout resulted in Keegan getting a black card and Dublin scoring simple point.
Dropping a ball an U-12 keeper would hold onto resulted in pen and him getting a black card.
That's 1-1 Mayo conceded that came directly from his errors.
I'd say that's a pretty bad day at the office. No??

That fairly reflects the popular opinion he had a bad day alright, kickouts and the penalty being the issues. Take the kickouts:

Hennelly took 14 kickouts of which Mayo scored 1-03 from and let in 0-02 directly from the possession's gained. That gives Hennelly a net score of 4 points on 14 kickouts, a 29% scoring return. Clarke took 6 kickouts of which Mayo scored 0 – 01 and didn't concede anything (mainly because Dublin weren't pushing up as high as the first half and Clarke was able to go short with all 6 kickouts. That gives Clarke a net score of 1 point on 6 kickouts, a 17% scoring return. So despite the popular opinion Hennelly was nearly twice as valuable on kickouts than Clarke was. (See the kickouts paragraph on don'tfouls excellent blog here https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/)

The dropped ball was the result of him over-analysing the intercepted kickouts and the fact he had been dropped after the Galway game and had no game time since, i.e. no confidence. Keegan getting a black card wouldn't have helped his mindset but this wasn't/shouldn't be on him as the foul itself wasn't a black card. Not withstanding the error of the dropped ball, the bigger error here was the award of a penalty for what was a legitimate reach for the ball by Hennelly and indeed he succeeded in breaking the ball away from Paddy Andrews. The contact with Andrews comes after the ball has broken away. Now from the camera angle that gives Deegans view of the incident you can understand why he gave a penalty, which is why I believe we have to use video technology for big decisions like this where it is available.

So from the 1-1 and the black card that you say came directly from his errors the stats and video say that Keegan should have remained on the field, the penalty shouldn't have been awarded and up to that point Hennelly had a positive net return of 4 points from his kickouts. The popular opinion will be to lambaste Hennelly, and Rochford for picking him, but I don't think the winter will be as long for them once they have gone through their post match analysis.

You can link it directly back to that incident?? Wow.
There's no point in debating the decisions that resulted from his mistakes. His mistakes led directly to Mayo conceding 1-1. There's no getting away from that.
No one in their right mind would say anything other than his performance was very poor, sub standard, call it what you will.

You choose to limit the discussion to his mistakes, do the positive aspects of his performance not deserve to be included? I know its not as sexy as pillorying him but people can tune in to the Sunday Game for the easy headlines.

Yes they do. Do they outweigh the negatives and the impact the mistakes he made (forget about the ref, lack of match practise and any other excuse) had on the game? No they don't.
He had a poor game and was able to put his hand up and acknowledge that.

You have him at fault for 1-1 that came directly from his errors (I make it 0-2 but take the 1-1), yet his long kickouts were the platform for 1-3 that Mayo scored. Does 1-1 > 1-3? Not for me it isn't. His positives probably cancel out his negatives but the popular opinion that he had a very poor game is inaccurate IMO.

Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

Croí na hÉireann

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

No, it would be the inverse. And you can't fault him for an incorrect decision from Deegan. Times 2.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

Geoff Tipps

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

No, it would be the inverse. And you can't fault him for an incorrect decision from Deegan. Times 2.

Yes Maurice Deegan should have taken to Twitter instead.

Croí na hÉireann

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

No, it would be the inverse. And you can't fault him for an incorrect decision from Deegan. Times 2.

Yes Maurice Deegan should have taken to Twitter instead.

You could be on to something there. Incidentally I scrolled through the responses to Hennellys posts and not one troll could I find, very heartening I thought.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

Geoff Tipps

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

No, it would be the inverse. And you can't fault him for an incorrect decision from Deegan. Times 2.

Yes Maurice Deegan should have taken to Twitter instead.

You could be on to something there. Incidentally I scrolled through the responses to Hennellys posts and not one troll could I find, very heartening I thought.

That's good to hear. I certainly have no animosity towards him, a feeling shared by the vast majority of Mayo supporters.

lenny

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 03:14:53 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2016, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on October 11, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
Is a Platform > Directly Responsible??
I have him at fault for 1-1 and the incalculable loss of Lee Keegan?? Well I say incalculable but I'm sure you can put a figure on that for me!

No, it would be the inverse. And you can't fault him for an incorrect decision from Deegan. Times 2.

Yes Maurice Deegan should have taken to Twitter instead.

You could be on to something there. Incidentally I scrolled through the responses to Hennellys posts and not one troll could I find, very heartening I thought.

That's good to hear. I certainly have no animosity towards him, a feeling shared by the vast majority of Mayo supporters.

Great perspective on Brolly's bullshit by soberpaddy on soberpaddy.com. Well worth a read.