Joe Brolly

[Dinny Breen]

A key question for Kildare is why have the trajectories of both teams gone in opposite directions since that day, when they were pretty much equal.

The SJ saga and McGeeney's removal by the clubs and how it was handled.
Finance
Group of players who finally couldn't pick themselves off the floor, they were punch drunk. Injuries/Retirements as well.
Poor u21 management
Jason Ryan

Donegal have plateaued now as well I think, will find it harder to generate finance which affects preparation, players have given so much, harder and harder to go back to the well. And Gallagher, doesn't convince me at all.

[Hound]

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

So you'd have been happy to say he's doing an alright job if Tyrone had beaten Fermanagh on the last day or if Derry and Meath had not drawn the previous week?

They finished joint 4th in a tight division where 7 of the 8 teams were all capable of beating each other. It was a bit of a freak that one of the four teams on 6 points went down, and Armagh happened to be the unlucky one.

[WT4E]

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

So you'd have been happy to say he's doing an alright job if Tyrone had beaten Fermanagh on the last day or if Derry and Meath had not drawn the previous week?

They finished joint 4th in a tight division where 7 of the 8 teams were all capable of beating each other. It was a bit of a freak that one of the four teams on 6 points went down, and Armagh happened to be the unlucky one.

Yes I would still be saying this - I think Armagh are under performing and I'm just using the fact they ended up in Div 3 as illustration of this even if you don't think they deserved to go down - they did!

Do you honestly think he doesn't have much to work with like you said earlier?

[ck]

I'm sure everybody knows at this stage that the vast majority of Joe's columns can be taken with a pinch of salt.  However if you look hard enough, remove the anecdotes and condensed his article into one or two paragraphs, most of the time he does have a valid point. He prefers the dramatics in his delivery, but for me hits the nail on the head more often than not.

Would agree with that. Joes objective is always to entertain first and to give insight second. He usually achieves both.
Amidst all the silliness he regularly raises some brilliant points and articulately dissects them with ease. Regardless of what you think of him, I don't know anyone who doesn't enjoy watching/listening to him.

What would be his brilliant point in the McGeeney article?

I didn't read the article but listened to the radio piece. His analysis of McGeeney I thought was pretty insightful. The man lived as a monk as a player and strived to be the best he could be. The same demands can be made as a manager but when some of your players don't buy into that then it takes more skill to get them on same path. (Man management) I'd guess that McGeeney is lacking in this area? This was Brollys point, which I think was a solid one.
Perhaps McGeeney would be a better No.2 than a manager?

[general_lee]

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

It is what it is. I can't think of any manager in Ireland who would get much better out of Armagh right now. The main players from 09 haven't really kicked on ie Murnin  (constantly injured) and Tasker  (not interested/good enough) McKenna (personality clash? N/a) McVerry  (not good enough). The only two players from that batch are McParland and Campbell (who wasn't on the 09 AI winning team) who will play any major role this year. The 2007 u21 team is essentially a write off at this stage can only think of Forker, Hanratty, James Lavery, Kieran Toner and Brendan Donaghy that ever made it to senior. That said Forker is a brilliant player as is Donaghy when fit. The story with cross is well documented, their best players don't want to know and the ones that are able for county football (imo) are much of a muchness with what is already there in the rest of the county.

[imtommygunn]

I'm sure everybody knows at this stage that the vast majority of Joe's columns can be taken with a pinch of salt.  However if you look hard enough, remove the anecdotes and condensed his article into one or two paragraphs, most of the time he does have a valid point. He prefers the dramatics in his delivery, but for me hits the nail on the head more often than not.

Would agree with that. Joes objective is always to entertain first and to give insight second. He usually achieves both.
Amidst all the silliness he regularly raises some brilliant points and articulately dissects them with ease. Regardless of what you think of him, I don't know anyone who doesn't enjoy watching/listening to him.

What would be his brilliant point in the McGeeney article?

I didn't read the article but listened to the radio piece. His analysis of McGeeney I thought was pretty insightful. The man lived as a monk as a player and strived to be the best he could be. The same demands can be made as a manager but when some of your players don't buy into that then it takes more skill to get them on same path. (Man management) I'd guess that McGeeney is lacking in this area? This was Brollys point, which I think was a solid one.
Perhaps McGeeney would be a better No.2 than a manager?

Him and Roy Keane have a lot of very similar traits.

[screenexile]

I'd agree with that. McGeeney gets a he'll of a lot of flak in Armagh when people fail to realise we have a very limited squad. Even if Armagh had a full deck to chose from, barring a Down 2010/Tyrone 2015  draw they'd be doing well to reach an AI QF this year. We don't have the same strength in depth that other counties have so even in the league this year a lot of stop gaps were put in and only towards the end did we see some improvement. This of course goes way over the head of some of the drama Queens that follow the team and you only need to read the county website forum to see the outrageous nature of some of the comments eg "worst performance ever seen on a football field" etc just because they got a tanking. Division 3 is a step in the wrong direction but not the end of the world; I'd expect it to be another temporary stay. McGeeney has brought in a lot of youth into the side, not sure he's the type of man you want giving fellas their first chance but then again it is what it is for now, I'm happy enough so long as we don't see a repeat of Donegal/Galway from last year

Out of the 6 teams that Tyrone played in AI Series last year I think a Kieran McGeeney Armagh side would lose to 4 or possibly 5 of them.

Armagh would beat Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo and the Meath game would be 50/50!!

[WT4E]

I'd agree with that. McGeeney gets a he'll of a lot of flak in Armagh when people fail to realise we have a very limited squad. Even if Armagh had a full deck to chose from, barring a Down 2010/Tyrone 2015  draw they'd be doing well to reach an AI QF this year. We don't have the same strength in depth that other counties have so even in the league this year a lot of stop gaps were put in and only towards the end did we see some improvement. This of course goes way over the head of some of the drama Queens that follow the team and you only need to read the county website forum to see the outrageous nature of some of the comments eg "worst performance ever seen on a football field" etc just because they got a tanking. Division 3 is a step in the wrong direction but not the end of the world; I'd expect it to be another temporary stay. McGeeney has brought in a lot of youth into the side, not sure he's the type of man you want giving fellas their first chance but then again it is what it is for now, I'm happy enough so long as we don't see a repeat of Donegal/Galway from last year

Out of the 6 teams that Tyrone played in AI Series last year I think a Kieran McGeeney Armagh side would lose to 4 or possibly 5 of them.

Armagh would beat Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo and the Meath game would be 50/50!!

I don't think they would beat Meath

I think they would beat limerick and the other two are 50/50

[Keyboard Warrior]

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

It is what it is. I can't think of any manager in Ireland who would get much better out of Armagh right now. The main players from 09 haven't really kicked on ie Murnin  (constantly injured) and Tasker  (not interested/good enough) McKenna (personality clash? N/a) McVerry  (not good enough). The only two players from that batch are McParland and Campbell (who wasn't on the 09 AI winning team) who will play any major role this year. The 2007 u21 team is essentially a write off at this stage can only think of Forker, Hanratty, James Lavery, Kieran Toner and Brendan Donaghy that ever made it to senior. That said Forker is a brilliant player as is Donaghy when fit. The story with cross is well documented, their best players don't want to know and the ones that are able for county football (imo) are much of a muchness with what is already there in the rest of the county.

Maybe I'm missing something; but what exactly is the reason the Crossmaglen players don't play for the county?

[screenexile]

I'd agree with that. McGeeney gets a he'll of a lot of flak in Armagh when people fail to realise we have a very limited squad. Even if Armagh had a full deck to chose from, barring a Down 2010/Tyrone 2015  draw they'd be doing well to reach an AI QF this year. We don't have the same strength in depth that other counties have so even in the league this year a lot of stop gaps were put in and only towards the end did we see some improvement. This of course goes way over the head of some of the drama Queens that follow the team and you only need to read the county website forum to see the outrageous nature of some of the comments eg "worst performance ever seen on a football field" etc just because they got a tanking. Division 3 is a step in the wrong direction but not the end of the world; I'd expect it to be another temporary stay. McGeeney has brought in a lot of youth into the side, not sure he's the type of man you want giving fellas their first chance but then again it is what it is for now, I'm happy enough so long as we don't see a repeat of Donegal/Galway from last year

Out of the 6 teams that Tyrone played in AI Series last year I think a Kieran McGeeney Armagh side would lose to 4 or possibly 5 of them.

Armagh would beat Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo and the Meath game would be 50/50!!

I don't think they would beat Meath

I think they would beat limerick and the other two are 50/50

Tipperary and Sligo just about missed out on relegation from Division 3 . . . what is your basis for these being 50/50 matches for Armagh?

I think Armagh improved throughout the league and suffered early doors with injuries and were hard done by to be relegated. I think there's a glut of teams like Derry, Cavan, Meath, Armagh, Fermanagh, Down, Kildare, Clare all capable of beating eachother on any given day! Teams like Sligo, Tipperary etc. are just a step below that.

[AZOffaly]

Tipp beat Clare this year!

[WT4E]

Tipperary and Sligo just about missed out on relegation from Division 3 . . . what is your basis for these being 50/50 matches for Armagh?

I think Armagh improved throughout the league and suffered early doors with injuries and were hard done by to be relegated. I think there's a glut of teams like Derry, Cavan, Meath, Armagh, Fermanagh, Down, Kildare, Clare all capable of beating eachother on any given day! Teams like Sligo, Tipperary etc. are just a step below that.

I'm basing on the fact that all 3 are division 3 teams and the fact that I don't believe Cavan would beat Sligo or Tipperary by 17 points.

Armagh where beat at home in R2 of the qualifiers whereas Tipp made it further to R3 of the qualifiers and Sligo made it to R4 of the qualifiers.

My opinion is I think that McGeeney is a poor manager - I think if Joe Kernan or McEntee where in charge of this Armagh side they would not be strugglin in the championship or plying their trade in div 3.

[tonto1888]

McGeeney seems to me to be doing an alright job in Armagh. But you can only work with what you've got. They were unquestionably unlucky to get relegated, in what was a very even division. Laois have actually got as much talent as anyone in that division (bar the tyronies maybe) but have the worst manager probably in any division, and unfortunately for Armagh they chose that day for it all to come together.

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

Who said he is doing a great job? Even the guy you quoted only said an alright job

[WT4E]

McGeeney seems to me to be doing an alright job in Armagh. But you can only work with what you've got. They were unquestionably unlucky to get relegated, in what was a very even division. Laois have actually got as much talent as anyone in that division (bar the tyronies maybe) but have the worst manager probably in any division, and unfortunately for Armagh they chose that day for it all to come together.

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great an alright job!

Who said he is doing a great job? Even the guy you quoted only said an alright job

Sorry I fixed it - my point still stands!

[general_lee]

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great job!

It is what it is. I can't think of any manager in Ireland who would get much better out of Armagh right now. The main players from 09 haven't really kicked on ie Murnin  (constantly injured) and Tasker  (not interested/good enough) McKenna (personality clash? N/a) McVerry  (not good enough). The only two players from that batch are McParland and Campbell (who wasn't on the 09 AI winning team) who will play any major role this year. The 2007 u21 team is essentially a write off at this stage can only think of Forker, Hanratty, James Lavery, Kieran Toner and Brendan Donaghy that ever made it to senior. That said Forker is a brilliant player as is Donaghy when fit. The story with cross is well documented, their best players don't want to know and the ones that are able for county football (imo) are much of a muchness with what is already there in the rest of the county.

Maybe I'm missing something; but what exactly is the reason the Crossmaglen players don't play for the county?

Some are injured. Some have retired. Some don't want to. Some don't get selected.