Joe Brolly

[Il Bomber Destro]

Regarding his matches against Tyrone at least:

03 - few flashes off brilliance but was young and Kerry were over ran that day
05 - played very well.
08 - few flashes off brilliance, looked to have the beating of the defenders  but bizarrely not used properly due to Kerry's insistence on the twin tower route. Where was Donaghy that day? If he is not a bottler

Would also have to look at '13 against Dublin when the pressure was on and he was brilliant

Just cos he was on the losing team doesnt equate to him going missing, class player, great attitude. Total legend!

Brolly's a slabber, he likes to feed his ego and prove himself right. Unfortunately to prove himself right he has to ignore that facts that prove him wrong.

Context is important here. We're talking about a player who is meant to be the best in the country and an all time great. Being decent or ok simply doesn't cut it.

[rrhf]

I find this debate about a class footballer who has came up against the best defenders on the team on a consistent basis slightly disconcerting.  Gooch is a class act and its great to see him back from injury, but like all footballers of course he can be marked. Nobody disputes Moynihan or Darraghs greatness but they were marked well too some days.   

[Il Bomber Destro]

I find this debate about a class footballer who has came up against the best defenders on the team on a consistent basis slightly disconcerting.  Gooch is a class act and its great to see him back from injury, but like all footballers of course he can be marked. Nobody disputes Moynihan or Darraghs greatness but they were marked well too some days.

I can't agree at all. Gooch is meant to be one of the greats but if he was then he would have turned it on when he was absolutely needed too. I don't subscribe to the excuses being made for him, they are not valid. He played in a fantastic team, a team so good that you could not afford overt attention to just one player for fear of another one stepping up and doing it. He's done it throughout his career. Just imagine he was on the Derry team Paddy Bradley was on or the Monaghan team Conor McManus is currently on, imagine the kind of attention he would come in for then. He's meant to be an all time great and you're excusing him about having to deal with the best defenders. The thing about Bradley and McManus was that even with all the attention they received and the utter reliance their teams heaved on them, they rarely let their team down. Gooch has on the big occasion and once again it's the context of him being a great player.

A great player will pull their team with them screaming and dragging when the chips are down. You think of performances like Canavan delivered in his career time and time again in close games where he made the difference, you think of guys like Padraig Joyce in 98, Stevie McDonnell in his pomp for Armagh. For Kerry the players that really stood out for me in this regard were Darragh and Tomas O'Se and Declan O'Sullivan, these were the guys who always seemed to bring the charge to Tyrone when we played them. Cooper was just a peripheral figure as he was in the other big games mentioned. I remember him not getting a touch against Monaghan in the two games they played against him in the late 00s, those were two very close and tight games which went to the wire. Even against Armagh in 2006, which for my money was Kerry's biggest result in the 00s, Cooper was a peripheral figure as Donaghy and Darragh O'Se inspired Kerry to victory.

A great player will, irrespective of where he plays, stamp his authority on the game, particularly when he played on such a good and talented team like Kerry have been throughout his career.

Cooper can be a great player when he's up against inferior opposition and let play but when the pressure is on he has crumbled. There's no real case for arguing otherwise, last week was another prime example of history repeating itself yet people still don't want to be honest about Cooper.

[getevennotcross]

Just ignore J. Bro**y for goodness sake, he's the Derry and Ulster embarrassment next to M. H**te. 

[BennyHarp]

Just ignore J. Bro**y for goodness sake, he's the Derry and Ulster embarrassment next to M. H**te.

Even after your edit the last bit still doesn't make sense.

[thewobbler]

I find this debate about a class footballer who has came up against the best defenders on the team on a consistent basis slightly disconcerting.  Gooch is a class act and its great to see him back from injury, but like all footballers of course he can be marked. Nobody disputes Moynihan or Darraghs greatness but they were marked well too some days.

I can't agree at all. Gooch is meant to be one of the greats but if he was then he would have turned it on when he was absolutely needed too. I don't subscribe to the excuses being made for him, they are not valid. He played in a fantastic team, a team so good that you could not afford overt attention to just one player for fear of another one stepping up and doing it. He's done it throughout his career. Just imagine he was on the Derry team Paddy Bradley was on or the Monaghan team Conor McManus is currently on, imagine the kind of attention he would come in for then. He's meant to be an all time great and you're excusing him about having to deal with the best defenders. The thing about Bradley and McManus was that even with all the attention they received and the utter reliance their teams heaved on them, they rarely let their team down. Gooch has on the big occasion and once again it's the context of him being a great player.

A great player will pull their team with them screaming and dragging when the chips are down. You think of performances like Canavan delivered in his career time and time again in close games where he made the difference, you think of guys like Padraig Joyce in 98, Stevie McDonnell in his pomp for Armagh. For Kerry the players that really stood out for me in this regard were Darragh and Tomas O'Se and Declan O'Sullivan, these were the guys who always seemed to bring the charge to Tyrone when we played them. Cooper was just a peripheral figure as he was in the other big games mentioned. I remember him not getting a touch against Monaghan in the two games they played against him in the late 00s, those were two very close and tight games which went to the wire. Even against Armagh in 2006, which for my money was Kerry's biggest result in the 00s, Cooper was a peripheral figure as Donaghy and Darragh O'Se inspired Kerry to victory.

A great player will, irrespective of where he plays, stamp his authority on the game, particularly when he played on such a good and talented team like Kerry have been throughout his career.

Cooper can be a great player when he's up against inferior opposition and let play but when the pressure is on he has crumbled. There's no real case for arguing otherwise, last week was another prime example of history repeating itself yet people still don't want to be honest about Cooper.

It's funny that you bring up Darragh. Maybe the best midfielder of the last two generations. But if he ever showed up in a battle against Kevin Hughes, I never saw it.

I'm quite content that Darragh is an all time great. But it's a bit odd that that you use different agenda to assess him and Cooper.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I find this debate about a class footballer who has came up against the best defenders on the team on a consistent basis slightly disconcerting.  Gooch is a class act and its great to see him back from injury, but like all footballers of course he can be marked. Nobody disputes Moynihan or Darraghs greatness but they were marked well too some days.

I can't agree at all. Gooch is meant to be one of the greats but if he was then he would have turned it on when he was absolutely needed too. I don't subscribe to the excuses being made for him, they are not valid. He played in a fantastic team, a team so good that you could not afford overt attention to just one player for fear of another one stepping up and doing it. He's done it throughout his career. Just imagine he was on the Derry team Paddy Bradley was on or the Monaghan team Conor McManus is currently on, imagine the kind of attention he would come in for then. He's meant to be an all time great and you're excusing him about having to deal with the best defenders. The thing about Bradley and McManus was that even with all the attention they received and the utter reliance their teams heaved on them, they rarely let their team down. Gooch has on the big occasion and once again it's the context of him being a great player.

A great player will pull their team with them screaming and dragging when the chips are down. You think of performances like Canavan delivered in his career time and time again in close games where he made the difference, you think of guys like Padraig Joyce in 98, Stevie McDonnell in his pomp for Armagh. For Kerry the players that really stood out for me in this regard were Darragh and Tomas O'Se and Declan O'Sullivan, these were the guys who always seemed to bring the charge to Tyrone when we played them. Cooper was just a peripheral figure as he was in the other big games mentioned. I remember him not getting a touch against Monaghan in the two games they played against him in the late 00s, those were two very close and tight games which went to the wire. Even against Armagh in 2006, which for my money was Kerry's biggest result in the 00s, Cooper was a peripheral figure as Donaghy and Darragh O'Se inspired Kerry to victory.

A great player will, irrespective of where he plays, stamp his authority on the game, particularly when he played on such a good and talented team like Kerry have been throughout his career.

Cooper can be a great player when he's up against inferior opposition and let play but when the pressure is on he has crumbled. There's no real case for arguing otherwise, last week was another prime example of history repeating itself yet people still don't want to be honest about Cooper.

It's funny that you bring up Darragh. Maybe the best midfielder of the last two generations. But if he ever showed up in a battle against Kevin Hughes, I never saw it.

I'm quite content that Darragh is an all time great. But it's a bit odd that that you use different agenda to assess him and Cooper.

I'm not using a different agenda, Darragh O'Se, unlike Cooper, turned up for the big games.

[imtommygunn]

You seem to have a real bitterness against gooch.

He's a great and the vast majority of us think that. Those who don't are in the minority.

One bad match does not make him a bad player!

(You were provided stats on other ai final losses but seemed to ignore them)

[time ticking away]

Bomber if we all agreed with you would you just stop

[Il Bomber Destro]

You seem to have a real bitterness against gooch.

He's a great and the vast majority of us think that. Those who don't are in the minority.

One bad match does not make him a bad player!

(You were provided stats on other ai final losses but seemed to ignore them)

As I said, the games where Cork and Mayo turned up to have their bellies tickled do not fall into this remit. It's not one bad game, it's history repeating itself with Cooper. It's another disappearing act he has done when they need him to be leading the charge and he doesn't want to know about it.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Bomber if we all agreed with you would you just stop

Yes.

[imtommygunn]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Read the stats. You have seen a bad game and thought all the ones they got beat in were like that. They weren't.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

What is your definition of failure?

Not scoring? (he only failed to score in one final)
Not scoring from play? (he only failed to score from play in two finals (out of 9!) And one of those finals, kerry won!)
Not scoring enough? (He has scored 2 points or less in only 2 finals. In the other 7 finals he has played in he has scored at least 5 points (1-2))
Not scoring enough when kerry lose? (In the 5 losing finals he has scored 0-2 (as a 19yr old), 0-5, 0-6, 1-3 and 0-0(on returning from cruciate injury)).
Not scoring enough from play? (in 3 of the 5 finals he has lost he has scored at least 0-3 from play)

So i'm curious as to what exactly you would have wanted him to do to avoid being the 'failure' you claim him to be!

I don't think anyone is denying that he has never played a bad match, and you are entitled to your opinion the same way everyone else is, but i completely disagree with you (and I'm entitled to my opinion too!)

[Rossfan]

Bomber if we all agreed with you would you just stop

Yes.

And would you also just go away?

[thewobbler]

I find this debate about a class footballer who has came up against the best defenders on the team on a consistent basis slightly disconcerting.  Gooch is a class act and its great to see him back from injury, but like all footballers of course he can be marked. Nobody disputes Moynihan or Darraghs greatness but they were marked well too some days.

I can't agree at all. Gooch is meant to be one of the greats but if he was then he would have turned it on when he was absolutely needed too. I don't subscribe to the excuses being made for him, they are not valid. He played in a fantastic team, a team so good that you could not afford overt attention to just one player for fear of another one stepping up and doing it. He's done it throughout his career. Just imagine he was on the Derry team Paddy Bradley was on or the Monaghan team Conor McManus is currently on, imagine the kind of attention he would come in for then. He's meant to be an all time great and you're excusing him about having to deal with the best defenders. The thing about Bradley and McManus was that even with all the attention they received and the utter reliance their teams heaved on them, they rarely let their team down. Gooch has on the big occasion and once again it's the context of him being a great player.

A great player will pull their team with them screaming and dragging when the chips are down. You think of performances like Canavan delivered in his career time and time again in close games where he made the difference, you think of guys like Padraig Joyce in 98, Stevie McDonnell in his pomp for Armagh. For Kerry the players that really stood out for me in this regard were Darragh and Tomas O'Se and Declan O'Sullivan, these were the guys who always seemed to bring the charge to Tyrone when we played them. Cooper was just a peripheral figure as he was in the other big games mentioned. I remember him not getting a touch against Monaghan in the two games they played against him in the late 00s, those were two very close and tight games which went to the wire. Even against Armagh in 2006, which for my money was Kerry's biggest result in the 00s, Cooper was a peripheral figure as Donaghy and Darragh O'Se inspired Kerry to victory.

A great player will, irrespective of where he plays, stamp his authority on the game, particularly when he played on such a good and talented team like Kerry have been throughout his career.

Cooper can be a great player when he's up against inferior opposition and let play but when the pressure is on he has crumbled. There's no real case for arguing otherwise, last week was another prime example of history repeating itself yet people still don't want to be honest about Cooper.

It's funny that you bring up Darragh. Maybe the best midfielder of the last two generations. But if he ever showed up in a battle against Kevin Hughes, I never saw it.

I'm quite content that Darragh is an all time great. But it's a bit odd that that you use different agenda to assess him and Cooper.

I'm not using a different agenda, Darragh O'Se, unlike Cooper, turned up for the big games.

So those "team of the noughties" finals weren't big games?

I don't know Darragh O Se from Adam, but it comes across quite clearly from his media work that he'd happily have traded any two of his Celtic Crosses for a single AI victory against Tyrone.

And him, being a midfielder before the days of "possession restarts" was actually someone who could genuinely influence every single match he played in. Corner forwards don't have that luxury. If their midfield was cleaned out it didn't matter what they did.

Ffs stop digging this hole.

[ashman]

A cheap shot from brolly who I generally like .  He is a man of many contradictions .  He generally talks about the GAA losing its values etc and then calls players chokers etc .