Joe Brolly

[BennyHarp]

The semi finals were very good but largely because 3 of the teams didn't play a blanket defence. But Itchy is broadly correct as entertainment value is down and that's due to the defensive tactics employed by an increasing number of teams.

Again, I agree it should be trialled as should any proposal.

Putting aside the fact that Kerry played as defensively as anyone last year, are we putting forward a rule change to specifically target those teams that choose to play a defensive system? That's maybe where the accusations of elitism come from.

Baring in mind that, as you suggest, 3 of last years All Ireland semi finalists didn't play with a blanket, maybe the defensive era is over, if the best teams aren't doing it then it will soon be redundant.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Look Zulu, if the best of what you can offer is anecdotal, give it up, for that's all you're offering here, even when confronted by irrefutable statistics.

No, I wasn't thrilled with the spectacle of last year's AIF, but I'll tell you what, the first recourse would not be to change rules, on the basis of one game, or a few more.

If you're disgusted with the Ballybofey fare next weekend, suck it up, for chances are I'll be a whole lot more disgusted, but I won't be on a crusade to change the rules on a whim.

[tiempo]

Do you know what really gets my goat too but.
That Hurling is far too high scoring, sure its nothing but one score after another, far too attack minded.
I think the rules should be changed so that you can only score from inside your own 45 therefore leading to better defensive play as obviously it would be easier to put players under pressure in a confined space. It's far too easy to score.

The likes of Kilkenny hammering teams round them, what chance do others have it they are going to play that openly and score from anywhere across the half way line?

Surely a simple rule change would sort this out once and for all and create a level playing field.
I for one think that this would work tremendously well and I would back it up with evidence in lower scoring games and falling attendances because that is a sure sign that the masses are delighted with the product.

[INDIANA]

Do you know what really gets my goat too but.
That Hurling is far too high scoring, sure its nothing but one score after another, far too attack minded.
I think the rules should be changed so that you can only score from inside your own 45 therefore leading to better defensive play as obviously it would be easier to put players under pressure in a confined space. It's far too easy to score.

The likes of Kilkenny hammering teams round them, what chance do others have it they are going to play that openly and score from anywhere across the half way line?

Surely a simple rule change would sort this out once and for all and create a level playing field.
I for one think that this would work tremendously well and I would back it up with evidence in lower scoring games and falling attendances because that is a sure sign that the masses are delighted with the product.

That was the greatest hurling team in the history of the association. A poor example.

Kilkenny aren't hammering anyone anymore. Hurling is the superior sport in absolutely every aspect.

[INDIANA]

Encapsulates nothing. Put up the stats for handpasses versus kickpasses if you dare

Now, that's bizarre!

So what you're actually saying is: participation in the games counts for nothing, attendances at the games counts for nothing, but how the games adhere to my template of 'how they should be played' is the overarching factor, trumping everything else! 

Get help FFS!

You guys need help. You can't play the game properly anymore and you expect the rest of us to resort to your template just to suit your own agenda. You don't own the association and the majority want change. Either get in the boat or bail out and take the 5/6 counties with you. You won't be missed

[Zulu]

The semi finals were very good but largely because 3 of the teams didn't play a blanket defence. But Itchy is broadly correct as entertainment value is down and that's due to the defensive tactics employed by an increasing number of teams.

Again, I agree it should be trialled as should any proposal.

Putting aside the fact that Kerry played as defensively as anyone last year, are we putting forward a rule change to specifically target those teams that choose to play a defensive system? That's maybe where the accusations of elitism come from.

Baring in mind that, as you suggest, 3 of last years All Ireland semi finalists didn't play with a blanket, maybe the defensive era is over, if the best teams aren't doing it then it will soon be redundant.

Kerry didn't set up defensively in the semi final but did in the final and the Munster final before that. Nobody is being elitist this is about a trend towards overly defensive football that might need to be dealt with through rule changes. But you know that Benny.

Look Zulu, if the best of what you can offer is anecdotal, give it up, for that's all you're offering here, even when confronted by irrefutable statistics.

No, I wasn't thrilled with the spectacle of last year's AIF, but I'll tell you what, the first recourse would not be to change rules, on the basis of one game, or a few more.

If you're disgusted with the Ballybofey fare next weekend, suck it up, for chances are I'll be a whole lot more disgusted, but I won't be on a crusade to change the rules on a whim.

That's a daft post FoSB, what irrefutable evidence have you posted and what are you trying to prove, you didn't answer that? I've shown attendances are down compared to hurling for the first time ever and also that attendances prove nothing about the opinion people have about football.

This isn't about one or two games but the clear trend for teams to primarily defend by getting everybody back and what that will mean for the game. As I've said numerous times I'm not advocating for rule changes yet but I certainly haven't my head in the sand as you appear to have.

It is an issue for a sport if two of the best teams in the country play each other with tactics that make it unwatchable for a neutral. I hope it's a good game and a good championship but if the best teams are going to get 15 behind the ball then I think we are right to be concerned.

[LeoMc]

It would seem Joe is absolving at least 2 Tyrone All Ireland teams of playing defensive football as it only started from 2006 onwards.

Another crucial point is that there is nothing artificial about the solution. We know it can work, since it is what we did until less than a decade ago.

[ONeill]

So are we killing quick-thinking? No more quick kick outs? Teams can kick a ball dead knowing it'll take a while to get areas cleared for the kick out? Keepers purposely kicking it out to penalise those who haven't had time to retreat?

[lynchbhoy]

Bit of a mad argument/debate lads!
It's all personal opinion about what you like to watch.
Scores are up but more teams play in a defensive way!

Sadly only Derry seem incapable presently of springboarding from this into attack!

Out of the past decade, in my opinion all the all Ireland winners ( plus frequent losers mayo) played with defensive setup except for cork who seem to be either traditionalist or naive!

Current Dublin and Kerry sides are as defensive as anyone with masses of men behind the ball - but they know how to counterattack and score. I'd hope Derry are paying attention!

[tiempo]

Tall midfielders would not necessarily be a protected species under the new proposal by Joe unless a rule regarding the size of a midfielder was brought in.

Would a smart manager not put an exceptionally quick player on a giant oaf and therefore be guaranteed to win all their own kickouts by virtue of running into space to collect the ball between the two 45s?

All you would need is x1 speedy player and x1 goalkeeper prepared to kick cynically to that players advantage.

On the flipside if you could cynically train this performing monkey/speed demon/lapdog to break a ball off the big lad then the team with said big lad would not necessarily win all their kickouts.

[Zulu]

Bit of a mad argument/debate lads!
It's all personal opinion about what you like to watch.
Scores are up but more teams play in a defensive way!

Sadly only Derry seem incapable presently of springboarding from this into attack!

Out of the past decade, in my opinion all the all Ireland winners ( plus frequent losers mayo) played with defensive setup except for cork who seem to be either traditionalist or naive!

Current Dublin and Kerry sides are as defensive as anyone with masses of men behind the ball - but they know how to counterattack and score. I'd hope Derry are paying attention!

But that's not the debating point. Teams have always played with a defensive strategy, even if that was simply mark your man. The issue is more and more teams are getting 13, 14 and even 15 players behind the ball and what that means for the game as a spectacle and for the development/skills of the sport. Nobody wants defending removed from the game but many of us don't want to see 15 players behind the ball and what that means for the game in terms of excitement and skills.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Encapsulates nothing. Put up the stats for handpasses versus kickpasses if you dare

Now, that's bizarre!

So what you're actually saying is: participation in the games counts for nothing, attendances at the games counts for nothing, but how the games adhere to my template of 'how they should be played' is the overarching factor, trumping everything else! 

Get help FFS!

You guys need help. You can't play the game properly anymore and you expect the rest of us to resort to your template just to suit your own agenda. You don't own the association and the majority want change. Either get in the boat or bail out and take the 5/6 counties with you. You won't be missed

Play the game "properly"? Gas, so, as was apparent after your hissy-fit about the U21 final, you want to exclude winners too in your elitist crusade, or is it just the like of the current (generally) losing Tyrone Senior side? We don't expect anyone or team to resort to any template, we're only seeking to win (rather unsuccessfully of late), but sure your lot (and the rest) are big and ugly enough to formulate your own approach without care or consideration for anyone else?

Look Zulu, if the best of what you can offer is anecdotal, give it up, for that's all you're offering here, even when confronted by irrefutable statistics.

No, I wasn't thrilled with the spectacle of last year's AIF, but I'll tell you what, the first recourse would not be to change rules, on the basis of one game, or a few more.

If you're disgusted with the Ballybofey fare next weekend, suck it up, for chances are I'll be a whole lot more disgusted, but I won't be on a crusade to change the rules on a whim.

That's a daft post FoSB, what irrefutable evidence have you posted and what are you trying to prove, you didn't answer that? I've shown attendances are down compared to hurling for the first time ever and also that attendances prove nothing about the opinion people have about football.

This isn't about one or two games but the clear trend for teams to primarily defend by getting everybody back and what that will mean for the game. As I've said numerous times I'm not advocating for rule changes yet but I certainly haven't my head in the sand as you appear to have.

It is an issue for a sport if two of the best teams in the country play each other with tactics that make it unwatchable for a neutral. I hope it's a good game and a good championship but if the best teams are going to get 15 behind the ball then I think we are right to be concerned.

Well, the only logical avenue is to change the rules, if teams are, within the current rules, being too negative for your (or Brolly's) preferences. Ludicrous to suggest that a team manager will not explore all options to maximise the chances of success in any game, unless you'd be in favour of Gaelic Football managers being the first in history to exclude defensive options. Football attendances are not collapsing, and haven't been in recent years, though yes, they will fluctuate.

If you think that Brolly's suggestion is a 'simple' change to the rules, I fear you'll have a whole new set of conundrums to deal with. Things are rarely straightforward, especially where rule changes are concerned, and I wouldn't be optimistic -- Brolly was talking about a single club game that finished with a soccer scoreline, and if that were a regular and recurrent scenario then something would have to be done. But it's not, so I would be inclined to still the siren voices.

[themac_23]

The game isn't great to watch at all at the minute. The most disappointing thing i have seen was last season i went and watched a club game between 2 teams who were at opposite ends of the table and really there was only ever going to be one winner. The better team with better players pulled 2 players into defence they had no reason to do this but played the whole game like that, they won the game by 4 points, now you may say what is wrong with that they won the game? This team had the players on the pitch to win that game by well over 10 points comfortably but played a defensive system, seemed more concerned with not conceding than racking up a big score. i came away from that game completely disheartened with the game i love, i haven't been to a county football game in a few years and have no desire to change that, but i have no problem jumping in the car and driving 2-3 hours to watch a SHC game, this from a man whos background is in football, what does that say about the state of the game? don't know if brolly's suggestion is the answer but something needs to happen.

[rrhf]

Many of the criticisms of the game are valid, but they are not new.  From 87/88/90/92/93/94/95/97/99 all Ireland finals were putrid so for those who think that Spillane and Brolly are to ne taken seriously I refer you to any of these matches.  The worst game in living history was the Donegal May semi final in 92.  If we really want to admit it the reason why we dont like Gaelic football is because the physicality has been eroded. The reason why handpasses have spawned is because theres no allowed physical way of stopping the runner.  The black card was introduced and one of its side effects has been the  ability to handpass without fear of being stopped.  30 years ago we removed the handpassed goal because it couldnt be predicted and stopped.  30 years on Joe et all forgot about this and supported the introduction of a rule that rewards and protects the running game.  Then they complain. 
As far as the term  Clonoe Conundrum is concerned JB is on the wind up again and again and everyone takes his bit of craic too seriously.  The problem here is Joe wants to influence referees and rule makers alike.I belive that his anti Tyrone stance albeit tinged this time around is as much to do with him being prepared to do RTEs dirty work for them as they don't particularly enjoy the snub we are giving them..  Joe  would certainly enjoy that.. 

[imtommygunn]

Many of the criticisms of the game are valid, but they are not new.  From 87/88/90/92/93/94/95/97/99 all Ireland finals were putrid so for those who think that Spillane and Brolly are to ne taken seriously I refer you to any of these matches.  The worst game in living history was the Donegal May semi final in 92.  If we really want to admit it the reason why we dont like Gaelic football is because the physicality has been eroded. The reason why handpasses have spawned is because theres no allowed physical way of stopping the runner.  The black card was introduced and one of its side effects has been the  ability to handpass without fear of being stopped.  30 years ago we removed the handpassed goal because it couldnt be predicted and stopped.  30 years on Joe et all forgot about this and supported the introduction of a rule that rewards and protects the running game.  Then they complain. 
As far as the term  Clonoe Conundrum is concerned JB is on the wind up again and again and everyone takes his bit of craic too seriously.

The worst game in living history was donegal-dublin aisf 2011. I don't think a game has ever came close to that level of direness...