China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.

I don't think that's a valid comparison to Covid.

We had excess deaths of 50k in the winter flu season of 17/18.

The reason it's not a valid comparison is that we don't carry out mass testing for flu and we don't classify deaths from flu in the same manner as we do with deaths from Covid. Positive test for Covid = Covid death regardless of whether it was the reason the person died or not. If we did those flu deaths would probably rise in multiples.

That's a very important distinction. Excess deaths is probably the fairest measure so I'm intrigued as to wath the death figures will be like between Dec-Mar 17/18 and Dec-Mar 20/21.

Fair enough. I do. We've discussed the excess deaths thing previously so again, I'll not go down that route. Same for the classification of deaths.

You don't want to go down this road so I'll leave at this.

How can it be a valid comparison when in the O6 for example we have conducted over 1m Covid tests when we don't test for flu.

How can it be a valid comparison where we automatically add a death in as a result of Covid merely because a positive case of Covid was present at the time of death. We record Covid deaths in arbitrary fashion, regardless of whether it was the cause of death or not, once it is present it is attributed as such. This is acknowledged as such.

[Angelo]

Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

[Milltown Row2]

Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension? 

[Taylor]

Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension? 

Have you no work to be getting on with Millhouse?

His mind wont be changed - best to let him hammer away until there is no one else left to argue with

[Milltown Row2]

Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension? 

Have you no work to be getting on with Millhouse?

His mind wont be changed - best to let him hammer away until there is no one else left to argue with

Very little in fairness, this lockdown, unlike the last one is hitting our sector harder than before.

Sooner we are back up and running the better.

[APM]

Hope your father pulls through Sid. I can't begin to imagine dealing with that in these circumstances. 

I find it more than a bit disturbing that the Covid deniers cannot set aside their issues with the Covid response and empathise for those suffering with Covid and their families who really do not want to hear that it is no different to the flu, to claim that the hospitals are really empty and that the vaccine will do more harm than good.

I suspect that mental illness is a feature among some of the Covid deniers and the anti-vax lot, ranging from depression and anxiety to narcissism.  I'm not taring all with one brush, but the level of aggression, anger, lack of empathy and obsession that you see from these people would make you wonder. 

[BennyCake]

Best wishes to your father Sid. Hope he makes it through this.

[Substandard]

Best of luck to your Dad, Sid.  Hope things will go well.

[Franko]

Best wishes to your Father Sid.

[Angelo]

Hope your father pulls through Sid. I can't begin to imagine dealing with that in these circumstances. 

I find it more than a bit disturbing that the Covid deniers cannot set aside their issues with the Covid response and empathise for those suffering with Covid and their families who really do not want to hear that it is no different to the flu, to claim that the hospitals are really empty and that the vaccine will do more harm than good.

I suspect that mental illness is a feature among some of the Covid deniers and the anti-vax lot, ranging from depression and anxiety to narcissism.  I'm not taring all with one brush, but the level of aggression, anger, lack of empathy and obsession that you see from these people would make you wonder.

I'm not a Covid denier. It's real.

Maybe it's you that's a flu denier though as you seem to be justifying record deaths in January 2018. Should we have locked down then?

[South Laois man]

I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

[JoG2]

Looking for some help here... Would anyone know what the excess deaths were for the 17/18 season? Thanks in advance

[Angelo]

I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

[trueblue1234]

I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.

[Angelo]

I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.

They should be able to debate that but they can't. Ask yourself why it was ok for record death totals in Jan 2018 with minimal coverage.

I have substantiated my post with figures and facts.

Record death totals in Jan 2018 and nobody batted any eyelid. I haven't had one poster who has been able to tackle that one yet, it's easier for them to throw outrageous slurs and insults rather than frame an effective argument.