Brexit: Stop border controls petition

[armaghniac]

It is important for people to get out and vote though. The EU one of these things that if you didn't have it you'd have to invent it and because it has been taken over to some extent by bureaucrats and ahole politicians doesn't change that. It is also an opportunity to vote against some unpleasant people, notably the Jim Allisters of this world.

Edit: I see Hugh Orde in the paper and on the radio basically saying that Villiers is telling porkies that there won't be any border controls. He was rather restrained in this comments, when of course any attempt at border controls would mean that likes of PSNI concept going down the drain.

[Canalman]

Cannot see a Brexit either. A very straightforward win to stay I think. English very conservative by nature. North and midlands to vote very heavily to stay.

Big winner will be Corbyn and to a  much lesser degree Cameron (insofar as he will have seen off one rival but will have seen the Tories split again ................ not really his fault but the can couldn't have been kicked down the street any further).

[LeoMc]

See my post above. I didn't read the petition, and the picture made me think he was on about Europe in general. Apologies for the confusion. And I don't think there is going to be any new border patrols between NI and ROI.

One hopes that Brexit will fail. If it does not there might not be any problems in Ireland at the border, but presumably the Brits want to change something in relation to borders, otherwise they would not have all this palaver, and that change is hardly likely to be positive, however limited it might be.

Back in the day there was little trust between the Dublin and London Governments.

The relationship is far more businesslike these days and even if there is a Brexit, I think there would be a quick deal to prevent the need for borders. Remember we are not part of Schengen so we wouldn't really need to change anything.

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. Any EU citizen could still enter the Republic - the only difference in being outside Schengen is that they have to show their passport on the way in. That being the case, any EU citizen can then travel on to NI and then cross to GB. If there's no border control. So either there's a border between NI and RoI, or the border is between NI and GB, and London doesn't worry about EU immigration to NI. Or am I missing something?

People already have to show their passport coming into GB or Ireland.
Free movement is not about getting in or out of a Country it is being able to move there and work there legally.

[ludermor]

Cannot see a Brexit either. A very straightforward win to stay I think. English very conservative by nature. North and midlands to vote very heavily to stay.

Big winner will be Corbyn and to a  much lesser degree Cameron (insofar as he will have seen off one rival but will have seen the Tories split again ................ not really his fault but the can couldn't have been kicked down the street any further).

I wouldn't be so sure. i work in London and the majority of English people i have spoken to would vote to leave. There are huge areas of old conservative England who want nothing to do with Europe as well as the large number of Military Towns. UKIP had a massive number of individual votes in the last election which did not translate to seats but they are far more popular than the press would have you believe.
Against all this there are a huge amount of europeans living and working in London and the vast majority of those i have spoken to would vote to stay.

[maddog]

Cannot see a Brexit either. A very straightforward win to stay I think. English very conservative by nature. North and midlands to vote very heavily to stay.

Big winner will be Corbyn and to a  much lesser degree Cameron (insofar as he will have seen off one rival but will have seen the Tories split again ................ not really his fault but the can couldn't have been kicked down the street any further).

I wouldn't be so sure. i work in London and the majority of English people i have spoken to would vote to leave. There are huge areas of old conservative England who want nothing to do with Europe as well as the large number of Military Towns. UKIP had a massive number of individual votes in the last election which did not translate to seats but they are far more popular than the press would have you believe.
Against all this there are a huge amount of europeans living and working in London and the vast majority of those i have spoken to would vote to stay.

Up here in sunny Brum the feeling i get is don't rock the boat or you will end up in the cut. Most of the lads i work with are for staying but overall there is a feeling of frustration that both camps aren't putting across a coherent argument as to whether stay or go. My own feeling is stay. Not so sure it would result in any seismic change either way.

[armaghniac]

Against all this there are a huge amount of europeans living and working in London and the vast majority of those i have spoken to would vote to stay.

Unless these have taken out British citizenship, they won't have a vote, so their opinion is immaterial.

[muppet]

Cannot see a Brexit either. A very straightforward win to stay I think. English very conservative by nature. North and midlands to vote very heavily to stay.

Big winner will be Corbyn and to a  much lesser degree Cameron (insofar as he will have seen off one rival but will have seen the Tories split again ................ not really his fault but the can couldn't have been kicked down the street any further).

I wouldn't be so sure. i work in London and the majority of English people i have spoken to would vote to leave. There are huge areas of old conservative England who want nothing to do with Europe as well as the large number of Military Towns. UKIP had a massive number of individual votes in the last election which did not translate to seats but they are far more popular than the press would have you believe.
Against all this there are a huge amount of europeans living and working in London and the vast majority of those i have spoken to would vote to stay.

Up here in sunny Brum the feeling i get is don't rock the boat or you will end up in the cut. Most of the lads i work with are for staying but overall there is a feeling of frustration that both camps aren't putting across a coherent argument as to whether stay or go. My own feeling is stay. Not so sure it would result in any seismic change either way.

You are playing a blinder. 

[Maguire01]

Cannot see a Brexit either. A very straightforward win to stay I think. English very conservative by nature. North and midlands to vote very heavily to stay.

Big winner will be Corbyn and to a  much lesser degree Cameron (insofar as he will have seen off one rival but will have seen the Tories split again ................ not really his fault but the can couldn't have been kicked down the street any further).

I wouldn't be so sure. i work in London and the majority of English people i have spoken to would vote to leave. There are huge areas of old conservative England who want nothing to do with Europe as well as the large number of Military Towns. UKIP had a massive number of individual votes in the last election which did not translate to seats but they are far more popular than the press would have you believe.
Against all this there are a huge amount of europeans living and working in London and the vast majority of those i have spoken to would vote to stay.

UKIP got 12.6% of the vote last year. They also had no shortage of press coverage.

[muppet]

The Referendum is do or die for the UKIP surely?

If the vote is overwhelmingly 'stay' what is the point of their existence then?'

[Maguire01]

See my post above. I didn't read the petition, and the picture made me think he was on about Europe in general. Apologies for the confusion. And I don't think there is going to be any new border patrols between NI and ROI.

One hopes that Brexit will fail. If it does not there might not be any problems in Ireland at the border, but presumably the Brits want to change something in relation to borders, otherwise they would not have all this palaver, and that change is hardly likely to be positive, however limited it might be.

Back in the day there was little trust between the Dublin and London Governments.

The relationship is far more businesslike these days and even if there is a Brexit, I think there would be a quick deal to prevent the need for borders. Remember we are not part of Schengen so we wouldn't really need to change anything.

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. Any EU citizen could still enter the Republic - the only difference in being outside Schengen is that they have to show their passport on the way in. That being the case, any EU citizen can then travel on to NI and then cross to GB. If there's no border control. So either there's a border between NI and RoI, or the border is between NI and GB, and London doesn't worry about EU immigration to NI. Or am I missing something?

People already have to show their passport coming into GB or Ireland.
Free movement is not about getting in or out of a Country it is being able to move there and work there legally.

That makes sense. References to Shengen are irrelevant too.

[dec]

I am speculating that Britain and Ireland will simply agree a similar process whereby people arriving in Dublin or London for example will be approved as qualifying for entry into both countries without the need for a further border or security check. Of course I could be wrong but considering the cost and the risk of trouble, I think both countries would quickly do a deal.

This is already in place and predates the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

[seafoid]

The Referendum is do or die for the UKIP surely?

If the vote is overwhelmingly 'stay' what is the point of their existence then?'

the vote is toxic for the Tories. Split down the middle.

[armaghniac]

I am speculating that Britain and Ireland will simply agree a similar process whereby people arriving in Dublin or London for example will be approved as qualifying for entry into both countries without the need for a further border or security check. Of course I could be wrong but considering the cost and the risk of trouble, I think both countries would quickly do a deal.

This is already in place and predates the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

That is the second time someone has posted the Wikipedia article on the Common Travel area, which rather trivialises the whole thing. The issue is not that the UK will stop Irish people going there, or even require documents of them. The issue is whether the wish of the UK to stop people passing through Ireland leads to additional checkpoints somewhere. The alternatives are at the border, which isn't really a runner or a Stranraer, which will piss off the unionists, but is more likely.

And that is aside from the disruption possible from some sort of customs bollix.

[muppet]

I am speculating that Britain and Ireland will simply agree a similar process whereby people arriving in Dublin or London for example will be approved as qualifying for entry into both countries without the need for a further border or security check. Of course I could be wrong but considering the cost and the risk of trouble, I think both countries would quickly do a deal.

This is already in place and predates the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

That is the second time someone has posted the Wikipedia article on the Common Travel area, which rather trivialises the whole thing. The issue is not that the UK will stop Irish people going there, or even require documents of them. The issue is whether the wish of the UK to stop people passing through Ireland leads to additional checkpoints somewhere. The alternatives are at the border, which isn't really a runner or a Stranraer, which will piss off the unionists, but is more likely.

And that is aside from the disruption possible from some sort of customs bollix.

Is that on the ballot paper?

[armaghniac]

I am speculating that Britain and Ireland will simply agree a similar process whereby people arriving in Dublin or London for example will be approved as qualifying for entry into both countries without the need for a further border or security check. Of course I could be wrong but considering the cost and the risk of trouble, I think both countries would quickly do a deal.

This is already in place and predates the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

That is the second time someone has posted the Wikipedia article on the Common Travel area, which rather trivialises the whole thing. The issue is not that the UK will stop Irish people going there, or even require documents of them. The issue is whether the wish of the UK to stop people passing through Ireland leads to additional checkpoints somewhere. The alternatives are at the border, which isn't really a runner or a Stranraer, which will piss off the unionists, but is more likely.

And that is aside from the disruption possible from some sort of customs bollix.

Is that on the ballot paper?

Don't go all Fearon, you know very well what is on the ballot paper.

As immigration is one concern of those promoting leave, and slogans such as regaining control of borders abound, then actions in this regard after a Brexit would seem a strong possibility.