Brexit: Stop border controls petition

[muppet]

See my post above. I didn't read the petition, and the picture made me think he was on about Europe in general. Apologies for the confusion. And I don't think there is going to be any new border patrols between NI and ROI.

One hopes that Brexit will fail. If it does not there might not be any problems in Ireland at the border, but presumably the Brits want to change something in relation to borders, otherwise they would not have all this palaver, and that change is hardly likely to be positive, however limited it might be.

Back in the day there was little trust between the Dublin and London Governments.

The relationship is far more businesslike these days and even if there is a Brexit, I think there would be a quick deal to prevent the need for borders. Remember we are not part of Schengen so we wouldn't really need to change anything.

[OgraAnDun]

Could you imagine the British army returning to South Armagh. Sitting ducks springs to mind.

A primary reason why border patrols won't be introduced in my opinion. It would be a pretty big boost for the dissidents too as everyone along the border steadily gets more and more wound up by being searched by British soldiers every time they want to cross the border.

[snatter]

Charlie Flanagan: Brexit may mean border controls

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/05/25/news/charlie-flanagan-brexit-may-mean-border-immigration-controls-531312/

[snatter]

Daniel Mulhall, Irish Ambassador: Why I hope the UK will remain in the European Union

"The current open border between North and South in Ireland could not be guaranteed to continue unchanged in a post-Brexit scenario."

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/05/25/daniel-mulhall-irish-ambassador-why-i-hope-the-uk-will-remain-in-the-european-union/

[AZOffaly]

Why would a Brexit automatically mean border control between the UK and ROI. It isn't there at the moment, and surely any border imposed would have to be at the behest of one of the two states? Or is the assumption that if the UK leaves the EU, then it (the UK) would automatically want closed borders?

[dec]

The Common Travel Area has been in place since before the EU or EEC existed.

[muppet]

Daniel Mulhall, Irish Ambassador: Why I hope the UK will remain in the European Union

"The current open border between North and South in Ireland could not be guaranteed to continue unchanged in a post-Brexit scenario."

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/05/25/daniel-mulhall-irish-ambassador-why-i-hope-the-uk-will-remain-in-the-european-union/

That just shows exactly how cordial things are between Dublin and London. We are simply campaigning for for the stay vote.

'Could' not be guaranteed..... 'may' mean border controls....

These messages are for the UK voters. Nothing serious in them and certainly nothing for anyone here to get worried about.

[armaghniac]

A Brexit would have to mean some form of border control between Ireland and Northern Ireland, in terms of both trade and immigration.

I'm not a fan of Little Englanders, but I have nothing but contempt for Little Irelanders who attempt to reduce Ireland to the 26 counties. We are talking here about a border within Ireland.

Why would a Brexit automatically mean border control between the UK and ROI. It isn't there at the moment, and surely any border imposed would have to be at the behest of one of the two states? Or is the assumption that if the UK leaves the EU, then it (the UK) would automatically want closed borders?

it doesn't automatically mean this, but the whole project is Britain cutting itself off and this is the logical consequence of that.

[BennyCake]

Why would you trust the politicans scaremongering about a Brexit? Whatever they say, it means the opposite.

[armaghniac]

Why would you trust the politicans scaremongering about a Brexit? Whatever they say, it means the opposite.

Because I don't trust the British.

[muppet]

Why would you trust the politicans scaremongering about a Brexit? Whatever they say, it means the opposite.

The Right Honourable James Hacker - First rule in politics: never believe anything until it's officially denied.

[armaghniac]

It is easy to say the politicians are scaremongering, but the academic types are too
http://qpol.qub.ac.uk/23-june-referendum-impact-borders/

[yellowcard]

No chance there will be a Brexit and the polls indicate that support is growing all the time to remain in the EU. I predict about 65% will vote to stay. A lot of scaremongering about border patrols. Of more to note rest will be the regional splits of which areas will vote to leave/remain and in particular the SNP will hope for an emphatic stay vote to support their case for another independence referendum.

[MoChara]

No chance there will be a Brexit and the polls indicate that support is growing all the time to remain in the EU. I predict about 65% will vote to stay. A lot of scaremongering about border patrols. Of more to note rest will be the regional splits of which areas will vote to leave/remain and in particular the SNP will hope for an emphatic stay vote to support their case for another independence referendum.

I would have thought the SNP would have been hoping on the Sly that there was a Brexit, gives them a big reason to call another referendum rather than business as usual.

[muppet]

It is easy to say the politicians are scaremongering, but the academic types are too
http://qpol.qub.ac.uk/23-june-referendum-impact-borders/

"Any UK citizen crossing the border to the Republic of Ireland would be a non-EU citizen after all."

This is not correct first up. Many citizens of the UK (in Northern Ireland) are, or can easily become, Irish citizens and thus EU citizens and that won't change. Everyone on here knows that sentence is very misleading. In fact the whole dynamic of the relationship is that currently a large proportion of people in the 6 identify themselves as Irish and they are legally entitled to become citizens of Ireland. Now either way they are citizens of the EU, but post-Brexit they could still become citizens of the EU via an Irish passport. The EU will not undo this, nor will London.

"Maintaining the relaxed situation between Northern Ireland and Ireland after the UK withdraws from the EU might be just possible if the UK agrees that all EU citizens enjoy free movement rights as before, that free movement of goods is maintained, and that both countries join Schengen."

This misses the point completely that currently neither Britain or Ireland is in Schengen. There would be no need to join after a Brexit either. Joining Schengen would change the border relationship with the rest of the EU, but it would change nothing with the 26 counties. The only relevance of Schengen would be if the 26 was a member of Schengen, which it isn't.

"UK citizens living in the Republic of Ireland have equal access to health care and social services with Irish citizens, and Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland have equal access to the NHS and schools. Again, suggesting that withdrawal from the EU would not change any of these daily advantages of free movement rights is misleading."

Changing advantages does not necessarily imply their complete removal. The language here is deliberately wooly. If the political will of London & Dublin was for the status quo to remain, and unless some radical parties get into power I don't see much change there, then the status quo will remain. The EU will not get involved unless it wished to risk an Irexit, which could lead to the dominoes falling. (If was the above author that sentence might read: Suggesting that there would be no change to the glue holding the EU together is misleading.)