Brawl Before Cork Clare Game

[dubinhell]

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Isn't that exactly what the Aussies did in the Compromise Rules and look at the whinging we did...
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While what happened in Semple was not acceptable, it was nowhere near as bad as the Aussies. They specifically called out a player (Geraghty) spoke about how he should watch himself all week and then Graham gets driven into the ground by the head and knocked unconciouss for several minutes....that was the most sickienng thing i've ever seen in Croke Park and i'm no fan of Meath 

Suspend the hurlers involved as per letter of the law and enforce the pre-game procedures as per letter of the law. it's very simple really.

[Hardy]

Bottlethrower, with the greatest of respect (and that's not meant to be a cliché in this case), I think your attitude to this is from the last century and this is what we have to change. I know you're not alone  – I can imagine the same point of view being articulated by ould lads in flat caps in pubs and clubhouses the length and breadth of Ireland. It's when generally progressive type like yourself display this blind spot to any suggestion that some of the old ways have to change that I despair for the future. You say it's unfair to pick on Cork and Clare to send out a message. I disagree. That's exactly how you send out a message. There's no point in talking, promising or threatening. You do it. It should have been done long ago. If it's not done now, when will this stuff be eradicated?

It's not acceptable for the GAA to take the attitude "of course others will get involved". That's called brawling. Thuggery is another name for it. Other sports (even the semi-savage Aussie Rules) have seen enough of the light to ban mass brawls and specifically sanction not the instigators, but the joiners-in. They realise that they don't exist outside of society and that they depend on society for their supply of players, supporters and members. And society has changed and no longer smiles indulgently on thuggish mass brawls.

The idea that people/teams should get a warning that the rules will now, for a change, be enforced is more farce. And, like it or not, the media are there and watching and influencing. If they don't influence us to clean up our act., they'll influence those who make the choices about the influences they want to subject their kids to.

Excuse the rant. I know you're a true hurling man. I just feel strongly that the future of both games is jeopardised by any hint of indulgence towards this type of carry-on.

[Model Hammer]

If these 8 players are suspended, it is an absolute discgrace, and will be nothing more than the GAA pandering to the media outcry over something that doesn't concern them.

Its time for the GAA to be strong and to see reason. 1 ban max per team. Preferably none at all and a ban would be enough in my book.

If its a case of sending out a message, it would be unfair to pick on Cork and Clare, at least without a warning.

Again I think you're missing the point. It's not just a media outcry, and as for the outcriers, it does concern "them". It concerns me. I want to be able to sit my young f'la down in front of a top class GAA match on telly - or better still, from the stands - without subjecting him to that kind of shite. God knows he'll see plenty of it at club level, as we all did.

How can you say it doesn't concern "them"? Who are you speaking for? It's more circle-the-wagons bollocks.

(I presume you meant "a fine" where you typed "... a ban would be enough ...".)

[agorm]

First of all - well done to the authorities for dealing with this. I am surprised and disappointed that many of the hurling pundits are somehow trying to justify this being brushed under the carpet. Perhaps they have become immune to much worse happening. While this was not the worst violence ever perpretated on a hurling field it was high profile and for that reason the no tolerance message must be sent out to all levels of the association. I am sure that most of us that follow hurling at a club level for a few years have witnesed blatant thuggery that may have generated no ban or an insuffucient one. This is an opportunity for the GAA to send out a message and set a precedent.

While I can see the point I do not agree with using the fact that the referee had already issued yellows to be a justification not to implement suspensions in the Laois Offaly game. If the actions warranted suspensions then the suspensions should be imposed. It could be due to all the legal stuff associated with GAA suspensions in recent years. Just because a referee does not see an incident properly or chickens out of a decision should not allow players to get away with this behaviour.

Parents of young children are watching this and they are the ones that generally dictate the sports that a kid plays - I know of situations in which parents make choices other than hurling for their kids because of this random violence.

Hitting an opponent with the hurley is more common in club hurling than county and I must say I have watched games in which this has been going and I have asked myself am I doing my son a disservice by cajoling and encouraging him continually to play and practice hurling. As a game played properly it is definitely the best.

[bottlethrower7]

Bottlethrower, with the greatest of respect (and that's not meant to be a cliché in this case), I think your attitude to this is from the last century and this is what we have to change. I know you're not alone  – I can imagine the same point of view being articulated by ould lads in flat caps in pubs and clubhouses the length and breadth of Ireland. It's when generally progressive type like yourself display this blind spot to any suggestion that some of the old ways have to change that I despair for the future. You say it's unfair to pick on Cork and Clare to send out a message. I disagree. That's exactly how you send out a message. There's no point in talking, promising or threatening. You do it. It should have been done long ago. If it's not done now, when will this stuff be eradicated?

I'm not suggesting for a second that it should go unpunished. I'm saying its way too excessive a punishment. When is the last time we've ever seen 8 player recieve a ban from a single game? I'd say its unprecedented, including those crazy club and schools games up North when supporters and players became involved in mass brawls. This whole episode reminds me too much of that Carlow-Laois (I think it was) game a few years ago where directives were issued to referees by the central council to have an almost zero tolerance attitude to petty fouls. As a result 7 players saw red over nothing incidents. The GAA hung out those 2 teams and that particular referee by subsequently denying they every issued any kind of directive. If they wanted to set an example, they should have at least warned the teams of it. The same in this case.

Yes Model Hammer, a fine is exactly what I meant. From TV pictures, Lohan and O'Sullivan or Cusack should miss the next game. Both sides get a fine. Book closed.

If they do dole out the supensions they are proposing, I for one would fully back both sides in any action they took to defend their players.

Lets not cloud the issue. No one is condoning the behaviour. What is being criticised is the excessive punishment, which is as a result of the media outcry, which, they can report away on, but have no business sticking their noses in in terms of suggesting bans, etc.

[Hardy]

I take your point BT and maybe I hair-triggered on your earlier post. But my point is that we need to eradicate this stuff now – all types of brawling, before, during and after matches. Handing out a few paltry fines now and congratulating ourselves on dealing with it won't do a damn thing about the problem. We need to come down hard and show that it's not acceptable. If a few lads miss a few games by being in the wrong place at the wrong time when we finally decided to get serious, then that's tough, but a reasonable price to pay if it gets the message out. How can they complain if the receive the penalty laid down in the rules?

You're right about previous cack-handed attempts to get tough that ended up with a few referees being hung out to dry and no effect on the problem. If we're to hand out tough sentences this time, it will only make sense if the tough line is followed consistently from here on. It might take a few Diarmuid O'Sullivans to miss a few Munster Finals, but it wouldn't take too long to work if players knew the (consistent) consequences of this carry-on. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the GAA who has reached breaking point with the nonsense that sees the same penalty (a yellow card being fluttered) for incidents ranging from no incident at all, through genuine attempts to play the ball that result in accidental collisions, to Saturday-night-outside-the-takeaway behaviour.

[AZOffaly]

Further to that Hardy, is it fair that two sets of players should behave in a very similar manner, on the same day, yet receive vastly different punishments simply because a referee happened to be on the pitch at the time in one of the incidents?

Obviously I hate to see any Offaly lad getting suspended, but the scenes in Tullamore were not far removed from those in Thurles. But because the ref gave 2 yellow cards in Tullamore, the players of Offaly and Laois are immune.

I think that's unfair, and much as I hate appeals and further appeals, I think that's against the spirit of the law as well. Cork and Clare are in danger of being victimised because they were on the telly live on a Sunday afternoon.

That's not right either.

(By the way, I am in full agreement that the sentences should be meaningful, but in both cases).

[Hardy]

I agree it's unfair, AZ, just like it's unfair to book a player who has been fouled by having his arm held and dragged down on top of another player. But if we wait for perfection in the rules, we'll never solve the problem and I would be against chickening out of using the full extent of the rules against the Thurles lads because it would be unfair. Every Sunday, players receive a bizarre range of penalties from referees, with violent offences overlooked and trivial ones severely punished. If the rules are unfair (and they will never be perfectly fair) then we should change the rules, rather than do nothing or apply only the minimum sentence in each case. If the Thurles lads are suspended, at least it will have been in accordance with the rules and they will have less to complain about, having been involved in a brawl, that many lads who have been suspended for nothing.

The Laois/Offaly players were not dealt with properly, as striking with the hurley is supposed to be a red card offence, but unfortunately, at present there's no provision for the referee's refusal to apply the rules to be overruled subsequently. So they're not great rules, but let's change the rules and introduce the third-man-in rule to deal with mass brawling and allow for refereeing penalties to be increased by a commission of some sort where appropriate. And, in a sport where the participants are carrying potentially lethal objects, there should be no room for interpretation when it comes to using the hurley, butt, boss or shaft. The slightest intentional touch with the hurl must carry the most severe of penalties, no exceptions.

[AZOffaly]

I agree Hardy, but I think this idea that the referee's report is final, even if he has patently done the wrong thing, is crazy. If I headbutt a lad, and the referee sees me and books me, rather than sending me off, then that is a disgrace. It would then be compounded if another lad headbutted someone, wasn't seen by the ref but was caught on camera, and git a suspension for 3 months.

You could certainly see how the second lad would have a case for claiming unfair treatment.

[INDIANA]

in fairness hardy if the ref sent off 8 players before the ball was thrown in -he'd be declared an idiot. but he'd have been correct to do so in the laois/offaly game and the cork v clare game. the refs can't win and the laughable thing about it is that the laois/offaly players are immune because the ref gave too 2 yellow cards(thanks fergal logan and the DRA).
i'm more of  a hurling man than football- but i think striking with the hurl is far too acceptable these days. the pathetic attempts of donal o grady saying -well they didn't get hit in the head - he should be fecked off the sunday game panel for that. i'm glad they were suspended nd it was highlighted-because then maybe the likes of joe canning might get justice when somebody stamps on their head in a match.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Lads, having a go at Fergal Logan is not the point here at all – he's a legal man, that's what he does, and that's what he'll do when asked, i.e., interpret the rules and regulations that other bodies have put together. It's not his fault that the GAA law is an ass at times, and perhaps he's ultimately doing the organisation a favour by showing up the inherent flaws, contradictions, and deficiencies.

And no, he's nothing to me, and the same would be true of any professional who's been hired here – they're just doing their job, and to focus on him or his like is a distraction.

[SuperMac]

Just a bit of handbagging, I was at some real brawling on Saturday, Cage Rage at the Point, what a night's scrapping, the real deal 

[Gabriel_Hurl]

The Cork and Clare county boards are set to strongly defend their players who are believed to face one-month suspensions following the pre-match fracas ahead of last Sunday's Munster Championship hurling clash.

While the GAA did not officially name the players, the four from Cork are believed to be goalkeeper Donal Óg Cusack and defenders John Gardiner, Seán Óg Ó hAilpín and Diarmuid O'Sullivan with Clare's Colin Lynch, Alan Markham, Andrew Quinn and Barry Nugent also facing bans.

They all have three days to either accept the suspensions or seek a hearing which could result in the bans being reduced, increased or left the same.

After that there could be a further appeal to the Disputes Resolution Authority, which is the last step before you get into legal action and is aimed at keeping these matters out of court.

Neither county board is offering further comment at this stage.

[orangeman]

Look - it was only an auld bit of handbags - nobody injured - and everybody was entertained and really that's why we go to matches - to be entertained - how many were at Limerick to see Cork and Tipperary ?? nobody - get the picture ?

[turk]

Folks

50 minutes into the Dublin v Meath game on Sunday there was a schemozzle. Lads dunting and pushing and shoving and knocking each other.

I take it these guys should be banned aswell. Let's get the message out, it's not acceptable. There was kids watching on tv and the crowd.

Deafening silence on this one