FIFA eligibility- new and re-worded

[SammyG]

Christ you don't logon for a few days and the world caves in.

I love reading main street's posts, he should get himself a job as a spin doctor, the way he cuts and chops certain paragraphs to suit his argument and leaves out the bits he doesn't like/doesn't understand. FIFA have made no exceptions/special cases for the FAI and they must abide by the same rules as everybody else,

Article 15 is irrelevant. The players either have a nationality which entitles them to represent more than one FA (so article 16 applies) or they have dual UK/RoI nationality in which case the dual nationality rules apply (can't imagine there are too many of these).

It is very clear and the only people muddying the waters are trolls like MS.

[Main Street]

ain Street is right magickingdom you don't have to apologise

As for trolling then f*cking off in a huff?, playing an insane mental game, being stubbornly stupid etc

I have not posted on the equivalent thread on OWC as the majority of people there have intepreted the amendment/ or have 'creamed themselves'* in the same way as I have.  I would prefer to engage with people who don't necessarily share that view point as I find the conversation tends to be more interesting that way.

Some people clearly aren't comfortable with being confronted with a contradictory view point and soon resort to sly digs.  You can be sure that it isn't too long before they cry wolf.

That's the usual nonsense that use to be argued by that Gwelthaw troll.
Don't flatter yourself, you do not have a contradictory opinion, you have a stuck belief system.
I have no problem with different opinions.
I had a look at the thread on the OWC site and there is somebody who is painstakingly trying to explain the legislation to all the zealouts.
So you do not have to come here. Somebody called Moore twin and there was somebody else before that called after a Doctor Who episode.
There are plenty on the OWC site who have asked the exact same question that you are stuck with and have got the exact same or similar answers

I have no problem with somebody who refuses to move out of their box as long as they go away after a while.
I have a problem with somebody who wants to stay in their box and use a patently ridiculous argument to support it.

Your anology of me attempting to joing the definition of a foul throw with that of obstruction and linking it with offside is completely off the mark and misleading.

Thats how it exactly looked and that was understated.

Read the new Article 16 and in the first paragraph Article 15 is referred to - A player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality - for eg an Irish Citizen born in Northern Ireland.  ie his Irish Nationality makes him eligible for more than one Association (you can thank Dermot Ahern for that one, or so he says).

Therefore, as I see it,  Article 15 does not stand alone.

*delete as appropriate
[/quote]
Article 16 does not stand alone, it states clearly its point of reference  to the terms of  eligibility in  article 15.

on account of his nationality
It is not on account of Irish nationality that he qualifies for NI, he qualifies because he was born in NI.
Irish Nationality  does not allow a player to declare for NI.
A player can use it for ID, so what?

There is no Northern Irish -  Irish nationality   which allows a player to choose between 2 different associations

Article 16 states that  a player holding one nationality  
(use terms of article 15)
A permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country

A NI born is a British national, without having to satisfy residency in other UK countries.
One nationality  but 4 associations.
How do you decide who plays for who?
FIFA wrote it all in this article 16.
And they allow the 4 associations to determine the length of residency.

[Main Street]

Christ you don't logon for a few days and the world caves in.

I love reading main street's posts, he should get himself a job as a spin doctor, the way he cuts and chops certain paragraphs to suit his argument and leaves out the bits he doesn't like/doesn't understand. FIFA have made no exceptions/special cases for the FAI and they must abide by the same rules as everybody else,

Article 15 is irrelevant. The players either have a nationality which entitles them to represent more than one FA (so article 16 applies) or they have dual UK/RoI nationality in which case the dual nationality rules apply (can't imagine there are too many of these).

It is very clear and the only people muddying the waters are trolls like MS.

Go back to the OWC and get your FIFA statute lessons from that Moore lad.
The guy has tried hard to reason with you.

Is there really a need to spread your shite all over the world.

[SammyG]

Christ you don't logon for a few days and the world caves in.

I love reading main street's posts, he should get himself a job as a spin doctor, the way he cuts and chops certain paragraphs to suit his argument and leaves out the bits he doesn't like/doesn't understand. FIFA have made no exceptions/special cases for the FAI and they must abide by the same rules as everybody else,

Article 15 is irrelevant. The players either have a nationality which entitles them to represent more than one FA (so article 16 applies) or they have dual UK/RoI nationality in which case the dual nationality rules apply (can't imagine there are too many of these).

It is very clear and the only people muddying the waters are trolls like MS.

Go back to the OWC and get your FIFA statute lessons from that Moore lad.
The guy has tried hard to reason with you.

Is there really a need to spread your shite all over the world.

Fantastic response!! If you agree with Mooretwin, then why have you been arguing the exact opposite on this thread?

Try reading my post and you'll see that I mentioned MT's point, namely dual nationality.

[Chrisowc]

Article 16 does not stand alone, it states clearly its point of reference  to the terms of  eligibility in  article 15.

on account of his nationality
It is not on account of Irish nationality that he qualifies for NI, he qualifies because he was born in NI.
Irish Nationality  does not allow a player to declare for NI.
A player can use it for ID, so what?

There is no Northern Irish -  Irish nationality   which allows a player to choose between 2 different associations

Article 16 states that  a player holding one nationality  
(use terms of article 15)
A permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country

A NI born is a British national, without having to satisfy residency in other UK countries.
One nationality  but 4 associations.
How do you decide who plays for who?
FIFA wrote it all in this article 16.
And they allow the 4 associations to determine the length of residency.

Irish nationality encompasses 2 footballing associations as does, for example, Danish nationality.

That is not to say that all Danish or Irish nationals are entitled to represent more than one association.

A NI born is a British national by birth - and an Irish national because he chooses.

His British nationality entitles him to represent 4 associations while his Irish nationality entitles him to represent 2.  By choosing to state that he is an Irish national does not suddenly make him eligible for only one association.

Similarly, someone born in the Faroe Islands has Danish nationality and under article 15 is entitled to represent Denmark.  Article 16 states that he, along with his Northern Irish counterpart, and there is such a thing as Northern Irish when it comes to FIFA & Football, must meet other criteria should they wish to represent another association. ie Denmark & Rep of Ireland.

[Donagh]

Chris I don't think that's true. You cannot represent NI by virtue of having an Irish passport. As I remember around the time of the passport fiasco UFEA accepted that it could be used for ID but that the IFA would provide documentation to prove the player was eligible to play for NI. Oh and the GFA and Bunreacht na hÉireann entitles us to Irish nationality as a "birthright" not as a choice i.e. I don't have to choose not to be British because I'm Irish as of (birth)right.

[Main Street]

Irish nationality encompasses 2 footballing associations as does, for example, Danish nationality.

That is not to say that all Danish or Irish nationals are entitled to represent more than one association.

A NI born is a British national by birth - and an Irish national because he chooses.

His British nationality entitles him to represent 4 associations while his Irish nationality entitles him to represent 2.  By choosing to state that he is an Irish national does not suddenly make him eligible for only one association.

Similarly, someone born in the Faroe Islands has Danish nationality and under article 15 is entitled to represent Denmark.  Article 16 states that he, along with his Northern Irish counterpart, and there is such a thing as Northern Irish when it comes to FIFA & Football, must meet other criteria should they wish to represent another association. ie Denmark & Rep of Ireland.

A Nothern Ireland  footballer
You have Two nationalities by birth, like it or not.
One nationality,  the UK one  allows you to play for NI
The Irish nationality allows you to  play for the Republic.


His Irish nationality entitles him to jack shit in Northern Ireland.
He can play for NI because he is an UK national.
He is a UK national by birth.
He can use his Irish passport for ID purposes.
Does nobody know the constitutional status of NI ?

The player can choose two associations because he has 2 nationalities not because he has one nationality.

[SammyG]

A Nothern Ireland  footballer
You have Two nationalities by birth, like it or not.
One nationality,  the UK one  allows you to play for NI
The Irish nationality allows you to  play for the Republic.


His Irish nationality entitles him to jack shit in Northern Ireland.
He can play for NI because he is an UK national.
He is a UK national by birth.
He can use his Irish passport for ID purposes.
Does nobody know the constitutional status of NI ?

The player can choose two associations because he has 2 nationalities not because he has one nationality.

Do you need a hand moving those goalposts?

You've just spent 4 pages claiming that Article 15 applies (when it clearly doesn't) and have now decided that actually dual nationality applies!!! Make yer mind up FFS.

p.s. As I've stated numerous times IMO dual nationality doesn't apply as the players have either British or RoI citizenship, not both.

[Main Street]

Do you need a hand moving those goalposts?

You've just spent 4 pages claiming that Article 15 applies (when it clearly doesn't) and have now decided that actually dual nationality applies!!! Make yer mind up FFS.

p.s. As I've stated numerous times IMO dual nationality doesn't apply as the players have either British or RoI citizenship, not both.

Since when do two nationalities become  the one nationality of article 16 ?
The person hasn't been born who could discuss this topic with you.
A most unique example of a mind locked shut.
Go back to your owc cave and get some lessons from that Moore lad

[SammyG]

Do you need a hand moving those goalposts?

You've just spent 4 pages claiming that Article 15 applies (when it clearly doesn't) and have now decided that actually dual nationality applies!!! Make yer mind up FFS.

p.s. As I've stated numerous times IMO dual nationality doesn't apply as the players have either British or RoI citizenship, not both.

The person hasn't been born who could discuss this topic with you.
A most unique example of a mind locked shut.
Go back to your owc cave and get some lessons from that Moore lad

Again a fantastic response. Nothing locked about my mind , thanks all the same for your concern.

[GalwayBayBoy]

A Nothern Ireland  footballer
You have Two nationalities by birth, like it or not.
One nationality,  the UK one  allows you to play for NI
The Irish nationality allows you to  play for the Republic.


His Irish nationality entitles him to jack shit in Northern Ireland.
He can play for NI because he is an UK national.
He is a UK national by birth.
He can use his Irish passport for ID purposes.
Does nobody know the constitutional status of NI ?

The player can choose two associations because he has 2 nationalities not because he has one nationality.

Do you need a hand moving those goalposts?

You've just spent 4 pages claiming that Article 15 applies (when it clearly doesn't) and have now decided that actually dual nationality applies!!! Make yer mind up FFS.

p.s. As I've stated numerous times IMO dual nationality doesn't apply as the players have either British or RoI citizenship, not both.

Surely if you're born in NI you are entitled to both from birth?

Granted many won't exercise their right to Irish citizenship but those that do are still UK citizens. They don't stop being UK citizens just because they claim their Irish citizenship entitlements.

[SammyG]

A Nothern Ireland  footballer
You have Two nationalities by birth, like it or not.
One nationality,  the UK one  allows you to play for NI
The Irish nationality allows you to  play for the Republic.


His Irish nationality entitles him to jack shit in Northern Ireland.
He can play for NI because he is an UK national.
He is a UK national by birth.
He can use his Irish passport for ID purposes.
Does nobody know the constitutional status of NI ?

The player can choose two associations because he has 2 nationalities not because he has one nationality.

Do you need a hand moving those goalposts?

You've just spent 4 pages claiming that Article 15 applies (when it clearly doesn't) and have now decided that actually dual nationality applies!!! Make yer mind up FFS.

p.s. As I've stated numerous times IMO dual nationality doesn't apply as the players have either British or RoI citizenship, not both.

Surely if you're born in NI you are entitled to both from birth?

Granted many won't exercise their right to Irish citizenship but does that do are still UK citizens. They don't stop being UK citizens just because they claim their Irish citizenship entitlements.

That's the million dollar question. I believe that we have an entitlement to British or RoI citizenship or both, others believe that you automatically have dual citizenship and have no choice in the matter. Depending on which of those is correct, different FIFA regs apply.

The one thing that is 100% clear is that Main Street was talking bollix, as the article he quoted doesn't apply to either case.

[Solomon Kane]

It would appear that it is not just the owcers who are of the same opinion as Chris.

This letter appeared in today's irish News.

The Belfast-based Irish Football Association's 'success' in overturning FIFA's original determination as regards Irish-born soccer players having the right to play for the Irish international team of their choice (which was an entirely fair and reasonable determination
which – unlike this latest revision – protected individual choice) and thus compelling players born in the six counties to play for the IFA team, is profoundly disturbing.

Here is an organisation (the IFA) that cannot even properly administer a small part-time domestic league nor exercise even basic financial control, wielding enormous influence in the corridors of power on a global scale and the question has to be asked as to how they can do this?

This matter has ramifications which extend beyond exclusively sporting issues, and raises questions as to the fundamental integrity of the Good Friday Agreement itself, and by inference the negotiating skills of our political representatives.

It is now incumbent on the SDLP, Sinn Fein to take the lead on this issue and in conjunction with the Football Association of Ireland in Dublin and the 26-county government, robustly challenge this ruling immediately in a co-ordinated manner and thus resolve the anomaly of Irish-born players from the six counties being forced against their wishes, to represent a team that plays under a foreign flag with a foreign national anthem, unambiguously and permanently..

Tony Fearon

Poyntzpass, Co Armagh

I have yet to hear of any footballer from the "six counties" (whatever the fcuk that is) or anywhere else "being forced against their wishes" to play football for any international team.  I have been to a lot of Northern Ireland matches at home and away and all the players seem to really enjoy themselves most of the time. No-one seems to be there against their will. The usual ill-informed bile I'm afraid.

[Donagh]

Surely if you're born in NI you are entitled to both from birth?

Granted many won't exercise their right to Irish citizenship but does that do are still UK citizens. They don't stop being UK citizens just because they claim their Irish citizenship entitlements.

If born in the north you are entitled to one of the following:

1. Irish nationality
2. British nationality
3. Irish and British nationality (note there is no northern Irish nationality)

If you fall under option 1 then you are a "person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence" and "eligible to play for the representative teams of" the FAI. You are not eligible to represent two association and fall under Article 15. 

If you fall under option 2 or 3 then you are subject to the other articles. 

[SammyG]

Surely if you're born in NI you are entitled to both from birth?

Granted many won't exercise their right to Irish citizenship but does that do are still UK citizens. They don't stop being UK citizens just because they claim their Irish citizenship entitlements.

If born in the north you are entitled to one of the following:

1. Irish nationality
2. British nationality
3. Irish and British nationality (note there is no northern Irish nationality)

That is my understanding but some people are arguing that we all get option 3 and don't have a choice in the matter.

If you fall under option 1 then you are a "person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence" and "eligible to play for the representative teams of" the FAI. You are not eligible to represent two association and fall under Article 15. 

Incorrect you are elligible for either the IFA or FAI and therefore article 16 comes into play. Article 15 is for a case were a Polish couple living in Dublin have a son, he would have Polish citizenship by birth but not RoI citizenship.

If you fall under option 2 or 3 then you are subject to the other articles. 

Correct