FIFA eligibility- new and re-worded

[Main Street]

Interestingly, I believe there are moves afoot to attempt to entice Dublin born Owen Garvan of Ipswich into the IFA fold.

i wonder how would that work out?
He is part of the Con Martin football dynasty.
His uncle is Mick Martin who is Liam Brady's long time buddy and Mick is also employed as a scout by the FAI.
Don Givens recommended him as the outstanding u21 to be part of Traps first senior squad.

Owen is a made man

[Main Street]

If they have an Irish passport does this mean they have 'acquired' a new nationality through their passport?

It is not acquiring a new nationality according to FIFA
NI born are entitled to it from birth with out having to fulfill any residence  demands etc
It is an automatic right.
FIFA recognize this as satisfying their criteria for Article 15.
That is what matters.

[magickingdom]

IMO, if they have an Irish passport, they are eligible to play for both IFA / FAI. Without an Irish passport IFA only.

They can decide if they are Irish or british.

spot on.

IMO, if they have an Irish passport, they are eligible to play for both IFA / FAI. Without an Irish passport IFA only.

They can decide if they are Irish or british.

If they have an Irish passport does this mean they have 'acquired' a new nationality through their passport?

no, in ni there is joint citizenship, people have a choice of citizenship. a concept that unionists dont seem able to grasp is that there are irish nationals now living in two different jurisdictions. if you start from there things get easier

[stiffler]

Interestingly, I believe there are moves afoot to attempt to entice Dublin born Owen Garvan of Ipswich into the IFA fold.

i wonder how would that work out?
He is part of the Con Martin football dynasty.
His uncle is Mick Martin who is Liam Brady's long time buddy and Mick is also employed as a scout by the FAI.
Don Givens recommended him as the outstanding u21 to be part of Traps first senior squad.

Owen is a made man

Must of been that spide Jim Magilton at Ipswich trying to entice him to OWC. No chance mucker

[magickingdom]

and from art 15

"Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent
on residence in a certain country is eligible to play
for the representative teams of the Association of that country."

wonder what fifa were thinking when they put that in?! couldnt be clearer

[Chrisowc]

I would say no. It's an entitlement, rather than something that has been acquired.

The question then follows does Article 15 stand alone?

This paragraph would suggest not -

Accordingly, art. 15 in the chapter "Eligibility to play for representative teams" of
the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes should be amended
and new art. 16 to 18 should be included.

[magickingdom]

I would say no. It's an entitlement, rather than something that has been acquired.

The question then follows does Article 15 stand alone?

This paragraph would suggest not -

Accordingly, art. 15 in the chapter "Eligibility to play for representative teams" of
the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes should be amended
and new art. 16 to 18 should be included.

are you sammy in disguise? whats your point??

[Main Street]

His point is clear now,  he is trolling
Nobody could be that dumb, could they?

Here is the text in full and obviously included means included in the statutes.


Explanation:
The objective is the complete integration of the various circulars and provisions
within the regulations into the FIFA Statutes without altering the current legal
situation (cf. Annexe 2 of the Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players,
circular no. 901 dated 19 March 2004 and circular no. 1093 dated 21 June
2007). Under the proposal approved by the Executive Committee, all relevant
provisions have been summarised and added to the Regulations Governing the
Application of the Statutes.
Accordingly, art. 15 in the chapter "Eligibility to play for representative teams" of
the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes should be amended
and new art. 16 to 18 should be included.

[Chrisowc]

I asked a question, a genuine one I thought.

Now I am being accused of being a wind up merchant/troller - we'll leave it at that.

[magickingdom]

I asked a question, a genuine one I thought.

Now I am being accused of being a wind up merchant/troller - we'll leave it at that.

i dont think your a wind up merchant chris (but i do think sammy is!) so i apologise.

[Main Street]

You don't have to apologise, I said he must be trolling that nobody could be that stupid and then he fécks off in a huff.

It's the same discussion with the same stuck minds.
Even if this was all discussed before, the same posters come on with simple enough questions, then it progresses a bit, then they sidetrack. Similar to discussing religion with religious zealouts, it is as if they have a belief system which interferes with understanding.

The simple interpretation is
'accordingly article 15  is amended and the the other 3 new articles are added to the chapter'.

It defies a minimum standard of common sense needed to discuss such things as eligibility criteria.  The poster is doing the equivalent of trying to join the definition of obstruction with the definition of a foul throw, because both are in the same area of the rule book.
Just so he can disagree with your definition of offside.
What constitution or set of rules would operate in such an anarchic way?

Its an insane mental game designed imo to entwine a discussion into knots,  not for gaining knowledge about something he knows nothing about.
Thats trolling or just stubborn stupidity, its the same thing.

[Chrisowc]

Main Street is right magickingdom you don't have to apologise

As for trolling then f*cking off in a huff?, playing an insane mental game, being stubbornly stupid etc

I have not posted on the equivalent thread on OWC as the majority of people there have intepreted the amendment/ or have 'creamed themselves'* in the same way as I have.  I would prefer to engage with people who don't necessarily share that view point as I find the conversation tends to be more interesting that way. 

Some people clearly aren't comfortable with being confronted with a contradictory view point and soon resort to sly digs.  You can be sure that it isn't too long before they cry wolf.

Your anology of me attempting to joing the definition of a foul throw with that of obstruction and linking it with offside is completely off the mark and misleading.

I'll try again.

Read the new Article 16 and in the first paragraph Article 15 is referred to - A player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality - for eg an Irish Citizen born in Northern Ireland.  ie his Irish Nationality makes him eligible for more than one Association (you can thank Dermot Ahern for that one, or so he says).

Therefore, as I see it,  Article 15 does not stand alone.

*delete as appropriate

[saffron sam2]

Read the new Article 16 and in the first paragraph Article 15 is referred to - A player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality - for eg an Irish Citizen born in Northern Ireland.  ie his Irish Nationality makes him eligible for more than one Association (you can thank Dermot Ahern for that one, or so he says).

Therefore, as I see it,  Article 15 does not stand alone.

I don't think this applies. For it to apply, article 16 should say "A player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationalities".

None of the articles 15 - 18 specifically apply to the Irish situation, i.e. whereby a player can have more than one "nationality".

All Irish passport holders are eligible to play for the FAI under article 15.

Article 16 refers to a particular nationality, e.g. British, that will allows you to represent more than one association. Maik Taylor would be a good example here.

For acquiring a new nationality, this would mean someone who has already played for an IFA team, who wants to switch to the FAI or vice versa.

Of course, I'm not a legal expert and could be totally wrong.

I also think it will only affect a very small minority of 'conscientious objectors' with most footballers choosing the option that furthers their own careers.

I believe Chris to be genuine in his questions and to be neither trolling nor stupid.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

It is obvious that the "clarification" by FIFA has not clarified anything judging by the circular arguments here and on OWC.  The proof of the pudding will be when some chappie from the six counties declares for (or in OWC-speak: is poached by in a sectarian manner) the FAI.  Of course the IFA will throw a huff, presumably formally and FIFA will have to adjudicate.  I'm certain the will rule in favour of the FAI because though I see the way OWC want to interpret the rules.  My reason for believing this precedent.  FIFA seem to accept that the political situation in Northern Ireland means that there are people who genuninely believe themselves "Irish" (in the nationalist sense) and that the states involve recognise this. 

Therefore, comparisons to Qatar, Spain/Portugal etc.. are irrelevant.  In fact their use in the context of this is arrogant and dismissive of sincerely held beliefs of a significant percentage of the population of Northern Ireland. 

A long way to go here yet but expect the status quo to remain.

/Jim.

[saffron sam2]

It would appear that it is not just the owcers who are of the same opinion as Chris.

This letter appeared in today's irish News.

The Belfast-based Irish Football Association's 'success' in overturning FIFA's original determination as regards Irish-born soccer players having the right to play for the Irish international team of their choice (which was an entirely fair and reasonable determination
which – unlike this latest revision – protected individual choice) and thus compelling players born in the six counties to play for the IFA team, is profoundly disturbing.

Here is an organisation (the IFA) that cannot even properly administer a small part-time domestic league nor exercise even basic financial control, wielding enormous influence in the corridors of power on a global scale and the question has to be asked as to how they can do this?

This matter has ramifications which extend beyond exclusively sporting issues, and raises questions as to the fundamental integrity of the Good Friday Agreement itself, and by inference the negotiating skills of our political representatives.

It is now incumbent on the SDLP, Sinn Fein to take the lead on this issue and in conjunction with the Football Association of Ireland in Dublin and the 26-county government, robustly challenge this ruling immediately in a co-ordinated manner and thus resolve the anomaly of Irish-born players from the six counties being forced against their wishes, to represent a team that plays under a foreign flag with a foreign national anthem, unambiguously and permanently..

Tony Fearon

Poyntzpass, Co Armagh