The ulster rugby trial

[Syferus]

There you go again. She got herself into "this situation". There was no "situation" until she was allegedly raped.

I would consider a 19 year old girl being drunk in a house with 4 very drunk men she doesn't know "a situation".

Earlier you said this situation fell into the 90% of cases where the perp is known to or acquainted with the victim. Now you're saying she didn't know them. Which is it?

We were talking about a study you mentioned which said that 90% of victims knew or were acquainted with their abusers and you asked if I was suggesting that people would have to stop socialising with people they know in order to prevent attacks. I said I imagined she would fall into the 90% category rather than the other 10% depending on how they defined that.

We know how well they knew each other. PJ couldn't remember her name and she couldn't remember Olding's.

Quit while you're behind.

[Milltown Row2]

There you go again. She got herself into "this situation". There was no "situation" until she was allegedly raped.

I would consider a 19 year old girl being drunk in a house with 4 very drunk men she doesn't know "a situation".

Earlier you said this situation fell into the 90% of cases where the perp is known to or acquainted with the victim. Now you're saying she didn't know them. Which is it?

We were talking about a study you mentioned which said that 90% of victims knew or were acquainted with their abusers and you asked if I was suggesting that people would have to stop socialising with people they know in order to prevent attacks. I said I imagined she would fall into the 90% category rather than the other 10% depending on how they defined that.

We know how well they knew each other. PJ couldn't remember her name and she couldn't remember Olding's.

Quit while you're behind.

Doesn't seem to stop you blabbering on

[AQMP]

Judge Smyth on the investigation by the PSNI (to the jury):

"Your function is not to sit in judgement on the competency of the police or to punish them for their perceived failures"

[screenexile]

Seems strange that they should give no weight to the fact that Olding was originally charged of vaginal raped only for that to be dropped. . . why would it need to be mentioned at all then?

[seafoid]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/a-woman-is-entitled-to-say-no-jurors-at-rugby-rape-trial-told-36744518.html

[AQMP]

Seems strange that they should give no weight to the fact that Olding was originally charged of vaginal raped only for that to be dropped. . . why would it need to be mentioned at all then?

Not sure, maybe she doesn't want the jury to infer that the complainant might have changed her story/been mistaken/forgotten etc from the fact that the charge was changed??

[gallsman]

She likely did it on the considerable chance that at least some members of the jury would have been aware of that charge and was warning them not to let that influence their thinking around the actual charge he is on trial for.

[AQMP]

Judge Smyth still to complete her direction but is expected to finish tomorrow.  Jury expected to begin deliberation at some stage tomorrow.

[Asal Mor]

A police interview where the alleged victim gives their account without probing questions from the police is hardly the best way to get at the truth in a rape case like this. An hour long interview without mention of DF or how her top came to be off just raises more questions and doubt imo. It would obviously be a traumatic experience but I'd have thought if the interview was handled delicately by female officers, they could explain to her that they have to ask a few questions about the details of what happened. It's going to be a hugely upsetting process for all concerned regardless.

That method(not asking questions of the complainant) of handling an interview is unfair to the accused and would make it more likely that a false allegation would go all the way to court.

I would have thought also that questions about the removal of her clothes and whether anyone else witnessed what happened would be among the most glaringly obvious.

I don't think the jury can discount these omissions from her police interview when assessing if there's a reasonable doubt.

[AQMP]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

[whitey]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

Her mate was barfing in the jacks before all this kicked off......how much alcohol did the unfortunate victim have on board?

[AZOffaly]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

Her mate was barfing in the jacks before all this kicked off......how much alcohol did the unfortunate victim have on board?

Are you sure about that?

[GetOverTheBar]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

Her mate was barfing in the jacks before all this kicked off......how much alcohol did the unfortunate victim have on board?

Let he without sin cast the first stone.

[whitey]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

Her mate was barfing in the jacks before all this kicked off......how much alcohol did the unfortunate victim have on board?

Let he without sin cast the first stone.

Haha....take it very handy these days myself, but if she was hammered, it could explain the inconsistencies

[Syferus]

"Judge Smyth is now going through some of the inconsistencies in the woman's account like the fact she initially told police Blane McIlroy came into the room with his trousers down. She told jurors he was 'completely naked'.

When you come to consider whether her account is true, you must avoid making the assumption that because she said something different to someone else, the evidence she gave to you is untrue.  Experience has shown that inconsistencies in accounts can arise whether a person is telling the truth or not because memory can be affected in different ways and may have a bearing on a person's ability to take it in, register it and recall it".

You might say that applies to the defendants too, but here the judge was specifically referring to the complainant.

Her mate was barfing in the jacks before all this kicked off......how much alcohol did the unfortunate victim have on board?

Let he without sin cast the first stone.

Haha....take it very handy these days myself, but if she was hammered, it could explain the inconsistencies

Or.. you know, she might have had a traumatic experience..