Search for New Mayo Manager

[larryin89]

The most encouraging aspect to all this non story shite is the huge interest Dublin supporters have in all things Mayo.

Hated, adored but never ignored.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:

Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into one.

Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that

Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up

1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up

Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated

Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.

I am not so confident.

This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.

I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.

Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?

What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?

They'll kneel when required.

And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.

So it's a money issue?

Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.

[Lar Naparka]

Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.

Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:

The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.

When the outgoing manager sticks in the oar a few weeks into the new managers season, is that part of the high performance environment?

Can't understand why either. It was obvious for sometime that the setup had gone pear-shaped but why James Horan decided to address the matter publicly is a mystery- tome at ay rate.
I mean he could have picked up the phone and rang Donie a bother.
But I took it to mean things were very much out of line with Team Mayo.
Before the usual suspects start caterwauling about Mayo's woes once more, the fact that Horan, who had managed the team for 4 very stressed out, high-performance seasons without any hint of wholesale mutiny, is hugely significant.
H&C had a large core of the players who soldiered under Horan for those four years and within a matter of months, there were ructions in the camp.
Go figure that one out.

[Lar Naparka]

Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:

Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into
one.

Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that

Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up

1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up

Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated

Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.

I am not so confident.

This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.

I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.

Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?

What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?

They'll kneel when required.

And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.

So it's a money issue?

Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.

Look sonny, when you get past puberty, you might see things in a different light.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Did James Horan say anything about the situation? He must have been disappointed with who was chosen to succeed him. The team is like a race horse that needs the right attention.

Here you are, my good man; taken from one of my recent posts:

The team made a fine start to the league that year, winning their first 4 games in style. Then there was a complete implosion when they took on Dublin in Castlebar. Here they lost by 14 points. All was definitely not well in the Mayo camp and to add to the rumours, James Horan made a plea in a newspaper column (Mayo Advertiser) to Donie Buckley to step in and bring some sort of order to proceedings in the camp.

When the outgoing manager sticks in the oar a few weeks into the new managers season, is that part of the high performance environment?

Can't understand why either. It was obvious for sometime that the setup had gone pear-shaped but why James Horan decided to address the matter publicly is a mystery- tome at ay rate.
I mean he could have picked up the phone and rang Donie a bother.
But I took it to mean things were very much out of line with Team Mayo.
Before the usual suspects start caterwauling about Mayo's woes once more, the fact that Horan, who had managed the team for 4 very stressed out, high-performance seasons without any hint of wholesale mutiny, is hugely significant.
H&C had a large core of the players who soldiered under Horan for those four years and within a matter of months, there were ructions in the camp.
Go figure that one out.

Differing management styles.

Players were loyal to Horan because he clearly indulged their egos and made them feel valued.

The other management team.

It's a bit like Revie v Clough at Leeds all those years back, the players effectively got Clough sacked because there was a personality clash and certain key players had their influence curbed. The difference was Clough was sacked by the club on the basis of results - not because the players told the club too - the results justified it.

The Mayo players need to have a long hard look at themselves, Holmes and Connelly brought a different approach on board and certain players look to have felt slighted and aggrieved at some of things that were said and the changes they brought on board. These changes and criticisms did not seem to impact on the one thing that truly matters - performances and results - this is simply indisputable. They did as good or as bad as any previous management side did with this team.

So it boils down to the reasons of the coup. It clearly wasn't football reasons, Mayo performed and looked as well prepared as any other season so I'm not buying the reasons being proffered in this regard.

It comes down to personal grievances between how some players felt they were treated by management and to me that shows that Mayo have a big problem with a few players and their meddling and undermining in team affairs. It was a catch 22 position that they were put it, the Mayo posters here seems to think it perfectly ok that they were fed to the dogs simply because they were caught between an internal squabble between the county board and a group of Mayo players. The big failing of Holmes and Connelly seemingly was to accept a job that there may not have been the most fair and transparent procedure to.

But I've asked this and still not got an answer - going in-house who were more qualified candidates?

McStay? Apparently the Mayo players had a big issue with a member of his backroom team who would be coming on board which paid to that. In any case his debut season of Championship football was embarrassing and his team look clueless and disorganised so possibly a bullet dodged.
The 2013 Minor Management team?
Rochford was not a big name by then?

So who were the Mayo posters so outraged the CB didn't appoint?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Some interesting views when H&C were appointed:

Pat Holmes has ruled himself out according to the Mayo news. hasnt the time apparently.
one horse race so, although our chairman has said it'll be the same process as the last time, which was:
subcommitee setup, was leaning towards Tommy Lyons as our chairman thought he was the man, lots of banging on tables and eventually Horan was reluctantly given the job.
Yes, indeed, it'll be John Maughan with Mickey Moran as water carrier, all our 00 nightmares rolled into
one.

Sure he couldnt possibly take offence from that

Why do you say that though? I know little about the man personally, but his record is good.
4 U-21 Connacht Titles
1 U-21 All Ireland Title
1 Senior NFL Title
1 Senior Club Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners up

1 think K Mac is:
1 Senior Club All Ireland (plus 1 Senior Club Connacht Title)
1 U-21 Connacht Title, All Ireland Runners Up

Based on CVs Holmes appears the more impressive, but its immaterial now, just wondering why he is not rated

Solely to do with his spell in charge of the seniors unfortunately. That period covered three Connacht championships with no silverware, a first round exit to Sligo in the 2000 Connacht C'ship (no qualifiers then) and a first round qualifier exit to Westmeath in 01 (I think). His best C'ship record was 02 when they got to the all Ireland quarter final v Cork and lost, to my memory the most boring game of football I'd ever watched. While he won the league in 01, that league campaign was tainted due to Tyrone having to withdraw due to the foot and mouth crisis when they were strong favourites to win the league. Unfortunately for Pat, he took the job having little management experience and throughout that period, other than the league, achieved very little despite having, on paper anyway a pretty good squad (Burke, Cahill, the 2 Connellys, Nallen, Ruane, Brady, Colm Mc, Ciaran Mc, the 2 Mortimers etc). That run is probably why not too many people want to see him back, despite what he's achieved since.

I am not so confident.

This is a desperately safe selection for the CB. We need something extra/special/different/inspired <delete as appropriate> to get over the line from where James and his team have got us to. Even treading water will be an achievement.

I just don't see where we get the last few inches that we need in this appointment.

Pat had a go before and even seemed to rule himself out. He has done well recently with the Mitchels but he had his shot. If Noel needed Pat on board to add gravitas to his application, then we are in bother. If Noel is the difference I mentioned above, then why not appoint him in his own right, as we did James Horan?

What will Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly bring to the table that McStay couldn't?

They'll kneel when required.

And so it came to pass....
Where were they when the CB went on a cost-cutting spree, attempting to pare back every concession that Horan prised out of them?
You just can't kiss your brother's arse and expect your team to do the same to you.

So it's a money issue?

Aren't the Mayo CB in big debt, surely it's a reasonable expectation that they look to curb back spending.

Look sonny, when you get past puberty, you might see things in a different light.

Ironic comment given you are the one with the doe-eyed defence of the O'Sheas.

[maigheo]

Can this thread be closed.Bomber is going to continue his ramblings until some Mayo poster agrees with him which is not going to happen.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Can this thread be closed.Bomber is going to continue raising objective questions until some Mayo poster is willing to have an open mind and look at the information available from both sides.

That's more accurate.

[criostlinn]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

[Il Bomber Destro]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

I'm the pragmatist here.

It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.

The reason we couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.

[seafoid]

Bomber is like a dog and subjects such as Mayo and rugby are like table legs.

[criostlinn]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

I'm the pragmatist here.

It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.

The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.

Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough

[Syferus]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

I'm the pragmatist here.

It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.

The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.

Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough

Free State media. Actually take the first two words out of that and you have Mayo's excuse for this year.

[Il Bomber Destro]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

I'm the pragmatist here.

It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.

The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.

Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough

We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.

A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.

[From the Bunker]

As I said he doesn't get it.

Any one have any idea why Tyrone cannot beat this bunch of Mayo players. Looking at some of the nonsense on hear it should have only been a matter of turning up. Surely they didn't bottle it

I'm the pragmatist here.

It has nothing to do with "me not getting it" and everything to do with that line you are using being a fallacy for those who do not want to engage in introspection and objective thinking.

The reason couldn't beat Mayo last year was because they weren't good enough, that's the be all and end all really as far as that goes - the players take that on the chin - they didn't throw their management team under the bus as a result.

Jesus christ man obviously they weren't good enough. But why. Why were Tyrone not good enough

We didn't take our chances, I thought there were instances when we were bullied by a more physical side. We made poor decisions in the final third. I think management deserved some criticism regarding persisting with having players hitting frees from outside their range and starting McShane who is still a little raw.

A bit like Kerry last year, we had the chances, our gameplan worked in effect but the players didn't profit on them and as such, introspection from the players is where the solution lies, if we're back again next year repeating the same mistakes then it's a massive worry. This Mayo team is on their 7th campaign this coming season as opposed to the the 3rd for Tyrone. Time is running out for Mayo.

Remember Mayo Playing Tyrone in 2013 in a semi final!  That's year 5 by my reckoning this coming season. So your progress has been slow, if there has been progress? You still rely on a lot of Sean Cavanagh for inspiration and time is running on for him also.