We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)
15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)
15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
Swap John Doyle and take out McFadden, he hasn't been All Star good yet.
Midfield I would put Michael Friel (So Far).
5 & 6 I would have Bolton and Brosnan.
5.bolton
6.lacey
7.jordan
Still on the early side to be picking All Stars, as performances in games before August (even September) are rarely worth anything come selection time. Has Michael Murphy really done enough to be considered? He has scored very little from play. I would have Ryan McMenamin in the corner too and Philip Jordan at 7.
Shane McAnarney has been the best centre back in the championship and Kevin Reilly was the best full back.
Seamus Kenny should be on it too.
Jamie Clarke should be in there
Banty should be the manager.
Wexford full back the best I've seen this year and donegal nbr 5 the best wing back I've seen. Would endorse the mention of friel also
Under no circumstances should anyone look west.
What All Stars are out west so far Muppet? In fairness the games out there have been ruined by the conditions in a lot of cases, so it's hard to make a case for anybody thus far. I'm sure there'll be a few from now on.
Mick Foley is playing well at full back for Kildare. McGrillen is a dark horse in the corner too. It is too early though. It'll be the same story. 13 All Stars at least will be decided from August Bank Holiday Weekend onwards.
Canavan's punditry surely drags him into the reckoning.
Fair play to you muppet - saying out loud what we're all thinking
Last year we won Connacht & got no All-Stars this year Mayo will get about 10.
Graham Geraghty has to get one.
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)
15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
No room for Big Willie?
:(
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If we beat Tyrone or Armagh (which i don't think we will) i think one of our defenders will get All-Star.
Quote from: ross4life on July 19, 2011, 05:26:20 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If we beat Tyrone or Armagh (which i don't think we will) i think one of our defenders will get All-Star.
If ye beat Tyrone or Armagh, it's more likely that Donie Shine will get one I'd say. He'll have to be great for ye to win it I think.
Quote from: thejuice on July 19, 2011, 05:19:12 PM
Graham Geraghty has to get one.
Everytime he touched the ball this year he got a goal.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 19, 2011, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 19, 2011, 05:19:12 PM
Graham Geraghty has to get one.
Everytime he touched the ball this year he got a goal.
And gave away a free.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If Mayo or Ros need to win a Q/F to win an All-Star how come all the others don't? Does (for example) not winning a Q/F make Hennelly worse than Clucko but winning one might make him better?
Also neither county could possibily have won a qualifier yet so how can that be used against them?
TBH I'm not bothered at the 2nd (or even 3rd) class treatment metted out towards us in the west. It'll bite someone of ye in the ass yet this year. ;D
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If Mayo or Ros need to win a Q/F to win an All-Star how come all the others don't? Does (for example) not winning a Q/F make Hennelly worse than Clucko but winning one might make him better?
Also neither county could possibily have won a qualifier yet so how can that be used against them?
TBH I'm not bothered at the 2nd (or even 3rd) class treatment metted out towards us in the west. It'll bite someone of ye in the ass yet this year. ;D
Who would you propose? Hennelly?
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 19, 2011, 05:34:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If Mayo or Ros need to win a Q/F to win an All-Star how come all the others don't? Does (for example) not winning a Q/F make Hennelly worse than Clucko but winning one might make him better?
Also neither county could possibily have won a qualifier yet so how can that be used against them?
TBH I'm not bothered at the 2nd (or even 3rd) class treatment metted out towards us in the west. It'll bite someone of ye in the ass yet this year. ;D
Who would you propose? Hennelly?
Don't want to get sucked into that.
I'm more interested in examining the logic that says (for example) a Dublin goalkeeper can be considered the leading contender already (in a team that hasn't reached a final in 16 years) while no one from any county in Connacht can possibly be considered without a Q/F victory.
This is a double standard.
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:37:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 19, 2011, 05:34:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
It's only a discussion Muppet beats talking about the Kildare and Mayo hype. Mayo or Roscommon will need to win a Q/F to be considered as Connacht was poor and London were the only team to win a qualifier thus far...
If Mayo or Ros need to win a Q/F to win an All-Star how come all the others don't? Does (for example) not winning a Q/F make Hennelly worse than Clucko but winning one might make him better?
Also neither county could possibily have won a qualifier yet so how can that be used against them?
TBH I'm not bothered at the 2nd (or even 3rd) class treatment metted out towards us in the west. It'll bite someone of ye in the ass yet this year. ;D
Who would you propose? Hennelly?
Don't want to get sucked into that.
I'm more interested in examining the logic that says (for example) a Dublin goalkeeper can be considered the leading contender already (in a team that hasn't reached a final in 16 years) while no one from any county in Connacht can possibly be considered without a Q/F victory.
This is a double standard.
`
I don't think you can 'examine' one without the other. I think you're being a bit sensitive. Based on the quality (weather influenced in at least two cases) in the Connacht Championship, there isn't really anyone that's been the best in their position based on form so far, in my opinion. It's not that they haven't been thought about, it's just not featured great performances.
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Based on performances to date. If you disagree you'll have to cite examples. Unless you are saying that you cannot possibly merit an All Star ANY YEAR based on Connacht Championship. If that's what you think, then I can only say for myself that that's not true. If a Mayo Corner Forward, for e.g. had scored 1-3 against Galway from play, and 1-6 against Roscommon, and looked that good, I'd have no problem saying he's in the running at this stage.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 19, 2011, 05:49:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Based on performances to date. If you disagree you'll have to cite examples. Unless you are saying that you cannot possibly merit an All Star ANY YEAR based on Connacht Championship. If that's what you think, then I can only say for myself that that's not true. If a Mayo Corner Forward, for e.g. had scored 1-3 against Galway from play, and 1-6 against Roscommon, and looked that good, I'd have no problem saying he's in the running at this stage.
Roscommon s Seanie McDermott and Mayo s Richie Feeney were brilliant in awful conditions. tom Cunniffe marked Senan Kilbride out of it. As good as I ve seen all year in the most trying conditions imaginable at this time of year. So McDermott goes in at 2 and Richie goes in at 5. Ye can pick Kernan in the forwards where he spends most of his time anyway. He wouldn t have come out with that dog ball the last day :-*
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 19, 2011, 05:49:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Based on performances to date. If you disagree you'll have to cite examples. Unless you are saying that you cannot possibly merit an All Star ANY YEAR based on Connacht Championship. If that's what you think, then I can only say for myself that that's not true. If a Mayo Corner Forward, for e.g. had scored 1-3 against Galway from play, and 1-6 against Roscommon, and looked that good, I'd have no problem saying he's in the running at this stage.
That is the premise.
jamie clarke
Feck all stars when there's All Ireland medals to be dished out. Much more important ;)
Quote from: Jinxy on July 19, 2011, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: thejuice on July 19, 2011, 05:19:12 PM
Graham Geraghty has to get one.
Everytime he touched the ball this year he got a goal.
Cian Ward - every time he touched the ball this year he went for a goal.
Mick Foley
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
Hasnt been great at all in the championship so doesnt one i feel. And i think he is one of the most overrated footballers in country
Jamie Clarke is superb. I don't think I've seen a player with the ability to score goals like he has. If Armagh are to beat Tyrone I'd say it'll only be if he hits a few which is not outside the realms of possibility.
Quote from: Armaghgael on July 19, 2011, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
Hasnt been great at all in the championship so doesnt one i feel. And i think he is one of the most overrated footballers in country
No he's not!
Quote from: screenexile on July 20, 2011, 12:24:06 AM
Quote from: Armaghgael on July 19, 2011, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
We don't really but as we head towards August who would be in contention, my own team with not much thought gone into it....
1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
2. Shane Enright (Kerry)
3. Rory O'Carroll (Dublin)
4. Hugh McGrillen (Kildare)
5. Aaron Kernan (Armagh)
6. Aidan Flynn (Wexford)
7. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
8. John Doyle (Kildare)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow)
10. Alan Brogan (Dublin)
11. Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry)
12. Colm McFadden (Donegal)
13. Colm Cooper (Kerry)
14. Michael Murphy (Donegal)15. Kieran Donaghy (Kerry)
POTY
Alan Brogan
Hasnt been great at all in the championship so doesnt one i feel. And i think he is one of the most overrated footballers in country
No he's not!
Definitely doesn't deserve to be in the reckoning for an All Star though, based on performances so far. As mentioned, Jamie Clarke would be a cert at this stage.
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
QuoteHaving one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
It would if it was an All-Ireland final.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 20, 2011, 02:25:04 PM
QuoteHaving one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
It would if it was an All-Ireland final.
You would be POTY if it was an AIF.
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
Three games actually.
Trying to pick an All-Star team is a bit premature.
Why not pick 3 or 4 players from each county left in the championship that might be in with a chance?
I see someone has selected 4 Kerry players and 3 Dublin players on a team with a quarter final yet to play?
If they lose their quarter finals those selections will be rubbished, so whats the point?
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 20, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Trying to pick an All-Star team is a bit premature.
Why not pick 3 or 4 players from each county left in the championship that might be in with a chance?
I see someone has selected 4 Kerry players and 3 Dublin players on a team with a quarter final yet to play?
If they lose their quarter finals those selections will be rubbished, so whats the point?
Yeah, the All-Stars are picked in October. There's no point speculating on them, just wait until they're announced. Same with matches, no point speculating on how the match will go, just wait until it's over and then you'll know.
QuoteI see someone has selected 4 Kerry players and 3 Dublin players on a team with a quarter final yet to play?
Clucko and Gooch don't need to play anymore games.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 20, 2011, 02:49:11 PM
QuoteI see someone has selected 4 Kerry players and 3 Dublin players on a team with a quarter final yet to play?
Clucko and Gooch don't need to play anymore games.
What planet are you on?
He could let in 4 goals in his next game. And Gooch could break his leg.
Quote from: blanketattack on July 20, 2011, 02:47:48 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on July 20, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Trying to pick an All-Star team is a bit premature.
Why not pick 3 or 4 players from each county left in the championship that might be in with a chance?
I see someone has selected 4 Kerry players and 3 Dublin players on a team with a quarter final yet to play?
If they lose their quarter finals those selections will be rubbished, so whats the point?
Yeah, the All-Stars are picked in October. There's no point speculating on them, just wait until they're announced. Same with matches, no point speculating on how the match will go, just wait until it's over and then you'll know.
Yeah, and Dublin could win the All Ireland.
I dont mind speculation but trying to narrow it down to 15 at this stage is premature.
Doesn't matter they are both shoe-ins.
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
Three games actually.
Which game has he done poorly in?
Robert Hennelly
Seanie McDermott
Michael Moloney
Colin Forde
Richie Feeney
Tony Gaughan
David Keenan
Michael Finneran
Aidan O'Shea
Andy Moran
Cathal Cregg
Cillian O'Connor
Senan Kilbride
Alan Freeman
Donie Shine
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 20, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
Robert Hennelly
Seanie McDermott
Michael Moloney
Colin Forde
Richie Feeney
Tony Gaughan
David Keenan
Michael Finneran
Aidan O'Shea
Andy Moran
Cathal Cregg
Cillian O'Connor
Senan Kilbride
Alan Freeman
Donie Shine
Only one Kerryman? Surely not. ;)
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on July 20, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
Robert Hennelly
Seanie McDermott
Michael Moloney
Colin Forde
Richie Feeney
Tony Gaughan
David Keenan
Michael Finneran
Aidan O'Shea
Andy Moran
Cathal Cregg
Cillian O'Connor
Senan Kilbride
Alan Freeman
Donie Shine
Good but i'd go for
Geoffrey Claffey
Sean McDermott
Niall Carty
Keith Higgins
R Feeney
P Domican
T Mortimer
A O'Shea
Michael Finneran
Andy Moran
Alan Dillion
Cillian O'Connor
Senan Kilbride
Alan Freeman
Donal Shine
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 20, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
Three games actually.
Which game has he done poorly in?
Jamie Clarke is far more deserving of an All Star this year so far than Coulter, especially when you consider their scoring returns.
As already stated, all idle talk for now. All Stars are won and lost from the 1/4 final stage. Even the token allstars for Lgue winners and Provincial winners gone the way of the Dodo.
Quote from: Canalman on July 20, 2011, 04:39:20 PM
As already stated, all idle talk for now. All Stars are won and lost from the 1/4 final stage. Even the token allstars for Lgue winners and Provincial winners gone the way of the Dodo.
True. A very good final would nearly guarantee you one irrelevant of anything else beforehand.
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 20, 2011, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 20, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
Three games actually.
Which game has he done poorly in?
Jamie Clarke is far more deserving of an All Star this year so far than Coulter, especially when you consider their scoring returns.
How many goals has Clarke set up? Coulter set up two at the weekend that he could have shot at himself. Coulter does a lot more than just score points. He has scored ten points so far but has set up loads more. If your only category is simply who scores the most then you know very little about football. Coulter is a vital part of forward line that have scored 6-52 in four games. Armagh have scored 4-54. Not much difference overall. You can not compare a forward who's main job is to score to one who is there to mostly set up scores just on points scored alone.
Both players have done well this championship and have been the reason their teams have scored so much, but in no way is Clarke MORE deserving than Coulter, besides you have no basis for saying that, our games haven't been televised so you haven't even seen his performances. They are both equally important.
By teh way, yes Clarke has had three good games, not two, and one poor one (Derry)
Agree with a ot of what is said on there being no point blah de blah but we can always try to ignore the short termism of the selectors!
Surprised no-one has mentioned Ben Brosnan from Wexford so far (maybe I missed it). Really think with what he has done so far he should get one.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 20, 2011, 06:59:54 PM
Agree with a ot of what is said on there being no point blah de blah but we can always try to ignore the short termism of the selectors!
Surprised no-one has mentioned Ben Brosnan from Wexford so far (maybe I missed it). Really think with what he has done so far he should get one.
Yeah good shout on Brosnan & he should clock up good scores in the Limerick,Quarter final games to give himself as similar total to what his look alike "the Mort" got while getting All-Star.
That other person never kicked 45's or scored a point by soloing up the field from his half back line.
From a Wexford perspective if the all star nominations were being announced this week we'd be hoping for Graham Molloy (full back), Ben Brosnan (wing forward) and Ciaran Lyng (corner forward) and maybe adrian flynn (wing back). Obviously when we win the all-ireland we'd be expecting a few more ;)
Michael Murphy probably wouldnt get one if they were picked today, and as screenexile says, he certainly isnt overrated, but i think he will have a massive say in his next 1-3 games.
If Jim McGuiness settled for an Ulster, and lets Donegal have a free reign from now on (which obviously wont happen) Murphy would set Croker alight
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 20, 2011, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 20, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
We all know that until it gets to the 4th round/quarter final stage that the pundits don't even think about who deserves an all star. Even basing it on performances so far means nothing. Yeah Jamie Clarke has done well in two games but very poorly in another. Coulter destroyed Leitrim and set up two goals against Antrim but if we lose to Cork then he has no chance.
It's far too early to talk about this, there is far too much still to happen. Incidentally in my opinion there is not a single player who is no longer in the championship (i.e. county already out) that deserves an All-star this year. And that includes a consideration of what anyone might have done in the league as well as the championship so far. And as for Cian Ward He didn't play in first game against Kildare. Scored nothing from play against Galway, and only two from play against Kildare second time. Having one miraculous day does not mean you deserve an All-Star.
Three games actually.
Which game has he done poorly in?
Jamie Clarke is far more deserving of an All Star this year so far than Coulter, especially when you consider their scoring returns.
How many goals has Clarke set up? Coulter set up two at the weekend that he could have shot at himself. Coulter does a lot more than just score points. He has scored ten points so far but has set up loads more. If your only category is simply who scores the most then you know very little about football. Coulter is a vital part of forward line that have scored 6-52 in four games. Armagh have scored 4-54. Not much difference overall. You can not compare a forward who's main job is to score to one who is there to mostly set up scores just on points scored alone.
Both players have done well this championship and have been the reason their teams have scored so much, but in no way is Clarke MORE deserving than Coulter, besides you have no basis for saying that, our games haven't been televised so you haven't even seen his performances. They are both equally important.
By teh way, yes Clarke has had three good games, not two, and one poor one (Derry)
Coulters 'main job' is to score, as is Clarkes. Both players are obviously involved in the creation of scores for team-mates, but their primary job is still to score goals/points themselves.
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Well Mayo won their quarter-final against Cork on Sunday I do believe :)
Barring major meltdowns in the semi finals Mc Gee and Lacey are nailed on* along with Andy Moran. 12 positions still up for grabs.
*Using standard all star selection formula
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 02, 2011, 07:34:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
If I name a candidate it becomes merely subjective and easy to rubbish.
However, what I am looking at is the premise that no Connacht player can be considered a serious All-Star candidate unless their team win a Q/F. I believe there consensus among most observers here, and almost certainly in the media, that this would be the case.
Well Mayo won their quarter-final against Cork on Sunday I do believe :)
Andy Moran should get one now if you beat Kerry expect many more.
Who will get Gooches All-Star if his form doesn't pick up?
Quote from: Jinxy on August 02, 2011, 08:35:42 PM
Who will get Gooches All-Star if his form doesn't pick up?
If Mayo beat them, Cillian O Connor will get it, if not he'll get it anyway. (See aforementioned formula).
Cluxton, Lacey, Bolton, Cassidy, Marc O'Sé, Kavanagh,Alan Brogan,Peter Harte, Darran/Declan O'Sullivan, Jamie Clarke, Andy Moran all very much in contention, but its the remaining games, starting next Saturday that will be the real judging ground for Allstars.
If you're picking an All Star team the rule should be no players from your own county. Let other posters deem them good enough
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2011, 07:39:34 AM
If you're picking an All Star team the rule should be no players from your own county. Let other posters deem them good enough
I disagree with that. You are entitled to praise and highlight your admiration, it's up to others to choose to agree or disagree. Any All-0star selection will defo end up having Kerry players in it, so you are suggesting Kerry posters would have to select a team that they and everyone else knows is wrong. It makes no sense to deliberately exclude a stand out player just because you were born in the same county as him.
However, this year so far, I don't think there have been any obvious stand out players. By this stage last year Bernard Brogan was on fire, Johnny Doyle was knocking them over for fun, Marty Clarke was giving masterclass displays in passing, McVeigh was stopping everything coming his way, and Michael Shields was dominating every opponent that came within five yards of him. I'd say by the time of the semi-finals last year you could have named around ten of the eventual All-Stars, I'm not sure you could say the same this year.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on August 03, 2011, 03:20:08 AM
Cluxton, Lacey, Bolton, Cassidy, Marc O'Sé, Kavanagh,Alan Brogan,Peter Harte, Darran/Declan O'Sullivan, Jamie Clarke, Andy Moran all very much in contention, but its the remaining games, starting next Saturday that will be the real judging ground for Allstars.
Why Jamie Clarke?
Kerry won't win any if they lose the semi-final unless Darren O'Sullivan plays well in defeat then he'd still have a half-chance of winning one.
certainly agree with lacey and mcgee....shoe ins at the moment. Id also propose that Karl Lacey may win footballer of the year................
Conor Gormley has been outstanding this year, and big Joe McMahon has notbeen far behind him either. Jamie Clarke definitely deserves consideration.
If Dublin lose on Saturday we will get no Allstars and rightly so.
AI winners usually get 5/7, AI losers 3/4, AISF losers 1/2 each (barring a complete hammering in the AIF when a team that ran the eventual winners close in the semis can get 2/4).
All up for grabs from now on.
Mickey's decison to not talk to RTE will haunt Tyrone in this respect. I feel they will have to win the All Ireland to get any all stars now.
At this stage of the year if Tyrone did win it then Joe McMahon, Gormley and Jordan would be nialled on.
Quote from: nrico2006 on August 03, 2011, 10:38:47 AM
Conor Gormley has been outstanding this year, and big Joe McMahon has notbeen far behind him either. Jamie Clarke definitely deserves consideration.
Why? played well v down, snuffed out of it against both Derry and Tyrone and played Wicklow twice. I don't get it.
Has that beating balaxed any Throne All-Star?
Alan Brogan is nailed on. Kevin Nolan probably as well.
Imo, Paul Kerrigan is the only Cork player who could get one.
Quote from: ONeill on August 07, 2011, 11:43:55 AM
Has that beating balaxed any Throne All-Star?
Cluxton was the only man who secured an all star yesterday. Brogan should get one but won't if Dubs are turned over by Donegal. No one from Cork has a hope.
I think Paul Flynn is worth a shout for wing-forward.
I think either Joe Mc Mahon or Conor Gormley will secure one all-star for Tyrone.
Quote from: randomtask on August 07, 2011, 01:44:56 PM
I think either Joe Mc Mahon or Conor Gormley will secure one all-star for Tyrone.
Unlikely now that Tyrone will get any. McMahon has absolutely no chance. The 4 semi-finalists will 100% clean up the full back line, and will get at least 13 overall IMO, given they also won the provinces. Cork (league winners) and Kildare (unluckiest of the losing QFs) might sneak one.
QuoteThe 4 semi-finalists will 100% clean up the full back line
That's Kildare fooked so, only Foley and McGrillen would be contenders, maybe Shane Connolly and Morgan O'Flaherty at a push.
Quote from: CorkMan on August 07, 2011, 12:33:20 PM
Imo, Paul Kerrigan is the only Cork player who could get one.
He won't.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 07, 2011, 01:42:09 PM
I think Paul Flynn is worth a shout for wing-forward.
Very good shout, but maybe won't get the recognition through the media that leads to these things.
More than any other Dublin player he symbolises all that's good about them. Unbelievably fit and driven, a great player when he has the ball and just as good without it.
Quote from: passedit on August 07, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 07, 2011, 11:43:55 AM
Has that beating balaxed any Throne All-Star?
Cluxton was the only man who secured an all star yesterday. Brogan should get one but won't if Dubs are turned over by Donegal. No one from Cork has a hope.
Alan Brogan is home and hosed already. One good game and he's footballer of the year to go with it.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 07, 2011, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: passedit on August 07, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 07, 2011, 11:43:55 AM
Has that beating balaxed any Throne All-Star?
Cluxton was the only man who secured an all star yesterday. Brogan should get one but won't if Dubs are turned over by Donegal. No one from Cork has a hope.
Alan Brogan is home and hosed already. One good game and he's footballer of the year to go with it.
Have two brothers ever both won footballer of the year?
Would Lacey not be up ther for footballer of the year? Class act all year.
Quote from: on the sideline on August 07, 2011, 06:43:49 PM
Would Lacey not be up ther for footballer of the year? Class act all year.
I think its between himself, Darren O Sullivan, Andy Moran and Brogan so far.
Don't think Andy Moran will be in the race. Declan O'Sullivan must be in with a shout too, but since I fancy Dublin to win the All Ireland then I suspect Alan will take the title.
Dec OSullivan, Lacey, Moran, and Alan Brogan front runners for Player of the Year
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on August 07, 2011, 07:03:07 PM
Dec OSullivan, Lacey, Moran, and Alan Brogan front runners for Player of the Year
That'd be my pick as it stands alright.
Quote from: on the sideline on August 07, 2011, 06:43:49 PM
Would Lacey not be up ther for footballer of the year? Class act all year.
Lacey is available at odds of 12/1 fo player of the year last time i checked worth a punt
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 07, 2011, 02:18:34 PM
QuoteThe 4 semi-finalists will 100% clean up the full back line
That's Kildare fooked so, only Foley and McGrillen would be contenders, maybe Shane Connolly and Morgan O'Flaherty at a push.
Emmett Bolton will surely get a mention after the scoring burst against Meath?
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 07, 2011, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 07, 2011, 02:18:34 PM
QuoteThe 4 semi-finalists will 100% clean up the full back line
That's Kildare fooked so, only Foley and McGrillen would be contenders, maybe Shane Connolly and Morgan O'Flaherty at a push.
Emmett Bolton will surely get a mention after the scoring burst against Meath?
He didnt get a sniff until kenny went off though...........................
I think Declan O'Sullivan at 9/2 to be footballer of the year is a great bet. In my view he'll win it if Kerry win the All Ireland. And Kerry are 4/5 to win the All Ireland. Only for Darran O'Sullivans goals keeping him in contention, Declan would already be much shorter.
Footballer of the year will definitely come from the winning team, like most years. Last year was a bit of a freak with Bernard playing so well and carrying the Dubs (only 1 All Star) and Cork having lots of very good players but not clear standout.
did stevie mc not get POTY in 2003 even though armagh didnt win the AI?
For me anyway, only 4/5 certainties as Allstars. 1 each from the semifinalists....... O'Sullivan (either one), Lacy, Moran and Alan Brogan.
From a strictly Dublin perspective Cluxton, O'Carroll, Nolan, McCarthy, Flynn, B Brogan and Connolly all set up nicely . Lose the AISF and none of them imo will get one, with exception of O'Carroll as he was unlucky last year and might get one this year as a "consolation".
Think all other 3 counties have 6/7 lads in contention also.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 07, 2011, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 07, 2011, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: passedit on August 07, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 07, 2011, 11:43:55 AM
Has that beating balaxed any Throne All-Star?
Cluxton was the only man who secured an all star yesterday. Brogan should get one but won't if Dubs are turned over by Donegal. No one from Cork has a hope.
Alan Brogan is home and hosed already. One good game and he's footballer of the year to go with it.
Have two brothers ever both won footballer of the year?
Marc and Tomás O Sé? Darragh should have won it in 06 but the media gave it to Donaghy for a couple of catches.
Quote from: Canalman on August 08, 2011, 12:45:32 PM
For me anyway, only 4/5 certainties as Allstars. 1 each from the semifinalists....... O'Sullivan (either one), Lacy, Moran and Alan Brogan.
Think all other 3 counties have 6/7 lads in contention also.
Would agree with thie names mentioned above.
System is flawed as journalists have short attention span which means SFS and Final carry a disproportionate weight and form over the year can be ignored for 1 or 2 good performances at latter stages. Canavan in 2005, Kennelly in 2009 being examples.
On the button Croí
Some team if they all lined up togetehr
Year Player County
2010 Bernard Brogan Dublin[1]
2009 Paul Galvin Kerry
2008 Sean Cavanagh Tyrone
2007 Marc O Se Kerry
2006 Kieran Donaghy Kerry
2005 Stephen O'Neill Tyrone
2004 Tomás Ó Sé Kerry
2003 Stephen McDonnell Armagh
2002 Kieran McGeeney Armagh
2001 Pádraic Joyce Galway
2000 Seamus Moynihan Kerry
1999 Trevor Giles Meath
1998 Michael Donnellan Galway
1997 Maurice Fitzgerald Kerry
1996 Trevor Giles Meath
1995 Peter Canavan Tyrone
Quote from: Orangemac on August 08, 2011, 12:49:35 PM
System is flawed as journalists have short attention span which means SFS and Final carry a disproportionate weight and form over the year can be ignored for 1 or 2 good performances at latter stages. Canavan in 2005, Kennelly in 2009 being examples.
Would disagree entirely there. Does Benson or Lyng deserve an allstar? They were on fire against the weaker teams Wexford played.
I'd say 2 out of 3 good performances from any of the 4 semi finalists is worth more, tougher opposition, more pressure. It fact I'd go so far as to say if Connolly was to score 5/6 points in the next two games give him player of the year, same for Moran or o'shea from mayo.
Personally I think Lacey has been the standout footballer this year but unless they win the AI he won't get it
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: Orangemac on August 08, 2011, 12:49:35 PM
System is flawed as journalists have short attention span which means SFS and Final carry a disproportionate weight and form over the year can be ignored for 1 or 2 good performances at latter stages. Canavan in 2005, Kennelly in 2009 being examples.
Would disagree entirely there. Does Benson or Lyng deserve an allstar? They were on fire against the weaker teams Wexford played.
I'd say 2 out of 3 good performances from any of the 4 semi finalists is worth more, tougher opposition, more pressure. It fact I'd go so far as to say if Connolly was to score 5/6 points in the next two games give him player of the year, same for Moran or o'shea from mayo.
Personally I think Lacey has been the standout footballer this year but unless they win the AI he won't get it
Brosnan I take it u mean, Benson was the man who had his whistle stolen. Wexford won't get any even though they should have beaten Dublin in the Leinster Final, the loss to Limerick sorted that.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 08, 2011, 02:13:59 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: Orangemac on August 08, 2011, 12:49:35 PM
System is flawed as journalists have short attention span which means SFS and Final carry a disproportionate weight and form over the year can be ignored for 1 or 2 good performances at latter stages. Canavan in 2005, Kennelly in 2009 being examples.
Would disagree entirely there. Does Benson or Lyng deserve an allstar? They were on fire against the weaker teams Wexford played.
I'd say 2 out of 3 good performances from any of the 4 semi finalists is worth more, tougher opposition, more pressure. It fact I'd go so far as to say if Connolly was to score 5/6 points in the next two games give him player of the year, same for Moran or o'shea from mayo.
Personally I think Lacey has been the standout footballer this year but unless they win the AI he won't get it
Brosnan I take it u mean, Benson was the man who had his whistle stolen. Wexford won't get any even though they should have beaten Dublin in the Leinster Final, the loss to Limerick sorted that.
(http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photos/bensonlogo.jpg)
You're right Croi. Benson was a fine actor but wouldn't be a great fella for kicking scores on a wet night in Croker.
Wrong Benson, this fella wouldn't be much use either though...
(http://sharetv.org/images/guide/200788.jpg) (http://www.tnenterprises.com/media/t_130563750787_WY0B0231.jpg)
The Tyrone-Dublin game has added a rake of Dubs to the All-Star radar - Flynn, Cahill, Connolly, Brennan, Bastick and O'Sullivan. This is on top of A Brogan and K Nolan who had already proven themselves prior to Saturday and Cluxton and B Brogan who have an heir of perpetual class about them and players could still come from nowhere with a good semi-final and final. If Dublin win the All-Ireland they'll probably get 12 All-Stars! :P
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:39:20 PM
The Tyrone-Dublin game has added a rake of Dubs to the All-Star radar
It may have added them to the radar in the first week of August but as we've seen with each passing week, things change drastically with each game.
If we review this after Donegal/Dublin and Mayo/Kerry things could be very different.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
What if this happens?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGh4Qoxc_qw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
When you're the best keeper in Ireland that is what usually happens.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
Quite an achievement for a man who was never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: Orangemac on August 08, 2011, 12:49:35 PM
System is flawed as journalists have short attention span which means SFS and Final carry a disproportionate weight and form over the year can be ignored for 1 or 2 good performances at latter stages. Canavan in 2005, Kennelly in 2009 being examples.
Would disagree entirely there. Does Benson or Lyng deserve an allstar? They were on fire against the weaker teams Wexford played.
I'd say 2 out of 3 good performances from any of the 4 semi finalists is worth more, tougher opposition, more pressure. It fact I'd go so far as to say if Connolly was to score 5/6 points in the next two games give him player of the year, same for Moran or o'shea from mayo.
Personally I think Lacey has been the standout footballer this year but unless they win the AI he won't get it
Probably not. He's far and away our best defender and, if there's a better man-marker in the game, I haven't seen him. He's playing centre back this year and thus he will presumably mark Alan Brogan the next day (unless he's pulled back to the corner for the other Brogan). I'd say whoever comes out on top between him and Brogan will be certainly shortlisted for the award.
If we were to win the AI could we potentially have a clean sweep for the kingdom with the Brogans and O'Sheas thrown in for good measure ;)
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 08, 2011, 05:02:09 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
When you're the best keeper in Ireland that is what usually happens.
Depends who you play for Indiana. However he was more like a quarterback than a keeper the other night. One of the main reasons Dublin won so comfortably. The speed and accuracy of his kickouts was outstanding.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 08, 2011, 05:02:09 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
When you're the best keeper in Ireland that is what usually happens.
correct..has taken goalkeeping to a new level with his skill levels. Best Ive seen
Deserves it for this alone
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00874/punch_i_874746t.jpg)
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Quote from: passedit on August 09, 2011, 12:01:16 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 08, 2011, 05:02:09 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
When you're the best keeper in Ireland that is what usually happens.
Depends who you play for Indiana. However he was more like a quarterback than a keeper the other night. One of the main reasons Dublin won so comfortably. The speed and accuracy of his kickouts was outstanding.
Well he was like an American Footballer when he took Offaly's Cathal Daly clean out of it on front of the Hill a few years back.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Cluxton easily better than the three of them, Murphy in particular was never up to much. However as only one of the above is still playing county football has Cluxton leapt into that top 3 now?
Cluxton has been the best keeper in the country for years.
He's got fewer handy all stars than the Gooch that's for sure.
Cluxton is the best keeper I've seen. The only keeper in recent memory with a similar ability to pick passes and kickouts was Ronan Gallagher of Fermanagh, but Cluxton is a major step-up in all other aspects of the game.
I do like Donegal's current netminder. He's a throwback to the days when goalkeepers were reliable big lumps of men who could kick a ball really far. After a match I could imagine him immediately bypassing the changing room to sink a couple of pints of stout, washed down with a few cigs.
Give me a Cluxton ahead of him any day though. I'd prefer to play with 15 footballers rather than 14 and a keeper.
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 09, 2011, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Cluxton easily better than the three of them, Murphy in particular was never up to much. However as only one of the above is still playing county football has Cluxton leapt into that top 3 now?
I shouldn't have said never, very lazy on my part, I should have said often not in the top 3. I would still have rated those 3 ahead of Cluxton. I am not sure would he get the same accolade if he were Westmeath or Sligo's keeper.
How many bad mistakes has Cluxton made over the years? I can only think of one off the top my head, against Armagh (I think) in 2003. Compare him to our lad, Durkan, who has improved mightily, but still commits the odd costly error such as the one that led to Kildare's injury time equalizer and another bad kickout that gifted them a point the last day.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 09, 2011, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Cluxton easily better than the three of them, Murphy in particular was never up to much. However as only one of the above is still playing county football has Cluxton leapt into that top 3 now?
I shouldn't have said never, very lazy on my part, I should have said often not in the top 3. I would still have rated those 3 ahead of Cluxton. I am not sure would he get the same accolade if he were Westmeath or Sligo's keeper.
You dont have a chip on one shoulder in relation to Dublin- you've got two!!
Quote from: INDIANA on August 09, 2011, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 09, 2011, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Cluxton easily better than the three of them, Murphy in particular was never up to much. However as only one of the above is still playing county football has Cluxton leapt into that top 3 now?
I shouldn't have said never, very lazy on my part, I should have said often not in the top 3. I would still have rated those 3 ahead of Cluxton. I am not sure would he get the same accolade if he were Westmeath or Sligo's keeper.
You dont have a chip on one shoulder in relation to Dublin- you've got two!!
All I know is, I was roaring them on against Tyrone.
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 09, 2011, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 08, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Sure Cluxton is guaranteed an allstar every year isn't he?
He was only 99% guaranteed an All-Star in previous years. Now that he's taking frees and 45s it's up to 100%.
Brains trust out in force today.
No All Star for Cluxton in 2008, 2009 and 2010.
As for the clown who said Cluxton was "never a top 3 goalkeeper in the country". Once again making himself a laughing stock with his utter lack of intelligence/knowledge.
Diarmuid Murphy
Pascal McConnell
David Clarke
Cluxton easily better than the three of them, Murphy in particular was never up to much. However as only one of the above is still playing county football has Cluxton leapt into that top 3 now?
Murphy was better in the air and a better shot stopper, plus he has 4 All-Ireland medals.
My original point was more that before a ball is kicked in the championship there's calls for Cluxton to get an all star, even though for most years, IMO, he's come up second best to another keeper, eg McVeigh last year. Being consistently the best goalie over a decade does not entitle you to an all star, it's lazy
Quote from: blanketattack on August 09, 2011, 02:17:51 PM
Murphy was better in the air and a better shot stopper, plus he has 4 All-Ireland medals.
[/quote]
I never rated Murphy, he wasn't much of a shot stopper imo and I can't recall much about his aerial prowess. Having 4 all ireland medals means that he played in damned good team, next you'll be telling me that Charlie Nelligan was the finest keeper ever.
I'd agree that Cluxton has got handy all stars simply because he plays for Dublin (and not necessarily based on his performances that year) but that doesn't mean he's not been the best keeper for the past 10 years.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 09, 2011, 02:39:20 PM
My original point was more that before a ball is kicked in the championship there's calls for Cluxton to get an all star, even though for most years, IMO, he's come up second best to another keeper, eg McVeigh last year. Being consistently the best goalie over a decade does not entitle you to an all star, it's lazy
Its certainly lazy analyisis to use McVeigh being better than Cluxton last year as your example of Cluxton getting easy All Stars. McVeigh got the feckin All Star.
Cluxton has received 3 All Stars in his 10 years of intercounty action. Hardly equates to an entitlement to an annual All Star as some are suggesting.
It was example, another one would have been Connaughton in '08, he was outstanding.
The laziness I refered to was before the quarter finals each year being told Cluxton deserved the all star.
Certainly this year Paul durcan is as strong a contender as Cluxton, other than the 45's has he had any saves to make?
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 09, 2011, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 09, 2011, 02:17:51 PM
Murphy was better in the air and a better shot stopper, plus he has 4 All-Ireland medals.
I never rated Murphy, he wasn't much of a shot stopper imo and I can't recall much about his aerial prowess. Having 4 all ireland medals means that he played in damned good team, next you'll be telling me that Charlie Nelligan was the finest keeper ever.
I'd agree that Cluxton has got handy all stars simply because he plays for Dublin (and not necessarily based on his performances that year) but that doesn't mean he's not been the best keeper for the past 10 years.
Murphy was one of the best goalkeepers I've ever seen under the high ball and has proven himself an excellent shotstopper as well. His best years were in '05 when he kept a clean sheet in a record 5 consecutive games and in '09 were he produced numerous great saves in particular the penalty save v Sligo and one v B Brogan in the 1/4 final.
He had an important part to play in winning those 4 All-Ireland medals so they can't be dismissed so easily. Winning an All-Ireland medal is a positive sign for a player and not just a sign that they played on a good team. Murphy has proven himself to be a big game player well able to handle the pressure of an All-Ireland final on 6 occasions. The only finals Cluxton is used to are Leinster finals and one league final.
Murphy also has an unblemished disciplinary record unlike Cluxton and as for Cluxton's great kick-passing, I remember Kerry v Dublin in '07 Cluxton kickpassing straight to a Kerry player resulting in a crucial point for Kerry late in the game.
Quote from: blanketattack on August 09, 2011, 04:00:16 PMMurphy was one of the best goalkeepers I've ever seen under the high ball and has proven himself an excellent shotstopper as well. His best years were in '05 when he kept a clean sheet in a record 5 consecutive games and in '09 were he produced numerous great saves in particular the penalty save v Sligo and one v B Brogan in the 1/4 final.
I remember the saves in '09, Brogan was wrong to go for goal and Murphy made an expected stop. As for the penalty, every keeper saves one now and again. In saying that I can't remember him making any specific mistakes, although I always had the impression that he did make a few, did get away with a few?
Anyway, I'll give him solid, but he was never in the top 4/5 in the country imo.
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.
I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !
All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 09, 2011, 03:54:57 PM
It was example, another one would have been Connaughton in '08, he was outstanding.
The laziness I refered to was before the quarter finals each year being told Cluxton deserved the all star.
Certainly this year Paul durcan is as strong a contender as Cluxton, other than the 45's has he had any saves to make?
Cluxton is an integral part of Dublins gameplan.
They would be significantly weakened if he had to be replaced.
Could you say the same about Donegal and Durcan?
Cluxton is in a different league altogether to him.
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0
That stat is completely irrelevant actually.
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.
I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !
All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.
Masterson loses points for bawling like a child.
Quote from: blanketattack on August 09, 2011, 05:09:45 PM
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0
Thats a bit unfair BA, while I don't rate Cluxton as the best goalkeeper around, he certainly is a very good keeper. You can't just rate a player on All-Ireland medals.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 09, 2011, 01:52:14 PM
Cluxton is the best keeper I've seen. The only keeper in recent memory with a similar ability to pick passes and kickouts was Ronan Gallagher of Fermanagh, but Cluxton is a major step-up in all other aspects of the game.
I do like Donegal's current netminder. He's a throwback to the days when goalkeepers were reliable big lumps of men who could kick a ball really far. After a match I could imagine him immediately bypassing the changing room to sink a couple of pints of stout, washed down with a few cigs.
Give me a Cluxton ahead of him any day though. I'd prefer to play with 15 footballers rather than 14 and a keeper.
Papa plays full forward for his club, scoring 1-03 in a recent game IIRC. Plenty of football in all our boys ;)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 09, 2011, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on August 09, 2011, 05:09:45 PM
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
The only stats that really count, All-Ireland medals:
Murphy 4
Cluxton 0
Thats a bit unfair BA, while I don't rate Cluxton as the best goalkeeper around, he certainly is a very good keeper. You can't just rate a player on All-Ireland medals.
I do rate him, I just think he's hyped up too much because of his kickouts. Kickouts don't matter too much if you're leaving in 5 goals against the likes of Meath. The media love him and I think he got an undeserved All-Star in '02 because of this. Declan O'Keeffe had a terrific year, saving 2 penalties and about 10 point blank saves in the c'ship plus great kickouts as well but it was given to the media darling Cluxton instead.
Also I don't know if Cluxton has the bottle, when in possession of the ball in '07 against Kerry 30 yards out, he panicked and kicked the ball to a Kerry player which ended up with a Kerry point and stopped Dublin's momentum.
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.
I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !
All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.
If shot stopping is only of 10% importance in a goalie's job, I reckon he shouldn't be spending 100% of his time on the goal line. I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're right there's a case to be made for making much better use of our goalkeepers as general purpose defenders ranging all through the defensive area, sweeping, double-teaming the target man, acting as defensive midfielder or whatever. It'd be interesting to see it tried and see if the positive benefits (if any) outweighed the (10%?) increase in the risk of conceding goals.
There was very little Cluxton could do about any of those goals in the Meath game.
He basically had no full back line in front of him.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 09, 2011, 12:28:08 PM
Deserves it for this alone
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00874/punch_i_874746t.jpg)
Brilliant!
Quote from: Hardy on August 09, 2011, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.
I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !
All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.
If shot stopping is only of 10% importance in a goalie's job, I reckon he shouldn't be spending 100% of his time on the goal line. I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're right there's a case to be made for making much better use of our goalkeepers as general purpose defenders ranging all through the defensive area, sweeping, double-teaming the target man, acting as defensive midfielder or whatever. It'd be interesting to see it tried and see if the positive benefits (if any) outweighed the (10%?) increase in the risk of conceding goals.
How many times can you recall thinking to yourself after a goal was scored 'if the keeper had better reflexes he would have saved that' ..... or if he was more agile or whatever ? Very seldom for me anyway which is part of the rationale behind the low weighting i have given.
I disagree with only spending 10% of his time on the goal line cos of a 10% weighting .... if that was the case then you wouldn't have managers from the opposition giving out about the 5 balls they landed in the keepers hands - more celebrating the 5 goals ! .....i.e.: keepers don't spend such a relatively high percentage of their time in and around the goals to dive full length to pluck the ball out of the top corner - that's very much the exception.
However, i would agree with your logic of the need for a keeper in the modern game to act as a sweeper - anywhere within a 50m radius of the goals. And while not going as far as double teaming on the danger forward, that he could if required stand one side of say the full forward if it was say Donaghy with the full back the other side and depending on the direction/type of the ball that comes in then either the fullback or keeper play it with the other one dropping back into goals.
blast05, it's an interesting suggestion for Donaghy, but I wouldn't encourage any keeper to follow it. The thing about Star is that if all he has to do is get a fist on a ball, then he's going to outjump anybody and everybody, including every keeper in the land. It's when he has to catch the ball to continue the attack that it gives full-backs half a chance. If a goal is left unminded, then any ball dropping within 20 yards of it lends itself to a fist. He's not going to direct too many of them into the net, but it only takes one for the tactic never to be tried again!
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2011, 11:34:44 AM
blast05, it's an interesting suggestion for Donaghy, but I wouldn't encourage any keeper to follow it. The thing about Star is that if all he has to do is get a fist on a ball, then he's going to outjump anybody and everybody, including every keeper in the land. It's when he has to catch the ball to continue the attack that it gives full-backs half a chance. If a goal is left unminded, then any ball dropping within 20 yards of it lends itself to a fist. He's not going to direct too many of them into the net, but it only takes one for the tactic never to be tried again!
Ah now i was hardly suggesting that the keeper stand there and watch as Donaghy gets a flick on the ball on the 14 yards line and the ball rolls into the goals.
What i was suggesting as a possibility worth considering was that during open play, that the keeper play to one side of the full forward and the full back to the other. Depending on the ball that is played in either the keeper or the full back contest the ball against the full forward. If is straight into the full forward along the ground or chest high then the faster of the keeper or full back play it, if its to the left then which ever of the 2 of them was playing on the left, same to the right and if its a perfect high ball down the centre then which ever of them is better in the air. At all times, the player who is not contesting the ball with the full forward quickly drops back to the goal area .... and if he has to act as goalkeeper until the next break in play or whenever then so be it.
And if we see more keepers playing as 'sweepers' and if some time were to be inventive enough to have rotating keepers similar to example above, then would it not be time for the keeper to have the same colour jersey as everyone else ? The only thing a keeper can do that outfield players can not do (that i can think of) is pick the ball of the ground in the small box (and jersey identification helps here i guess for a referee) .... and if they get rid of the square ball rule then no need ?
The only other rule specific to the keeper (that I can think of) is that you can't charge him in the small square. I have no idea what the logic behind that is and don't see why it shouldn't be scrapped too.
Quote from: blast05 on August 10, 2011, 02:30:39 PM
At all times, the player who is not contesting the ball with the full forward quickly drops back to the goal area .... and if he has to act as goalkeeper until the next break in play or whenever then so be it.
So on occasion a full-forward will be getting marked by a goalie and a back will be in goals? I'd love that if I was a forward - it'd be fairly easy to beat a back who's not used to tackling and score a goal past a goalie not used to diving.
By the way, the goalie would also need to wear a jersey so he can be identified as the player that can't be shoulder-charged.
Quote from: blanketattack on August 10, 2011, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: blast05 on August 10, 2011, 02:30:39 PM
At all times, the player who is not contesting the ball with the full forward quickly drops back to the goal area .... and if he has to act as goalkeeper until the next break in play or whenever then so be it.
So on occasion a full-forward will be getting marked by a goalie and a back will be in goals? I'd love that if I was a forward - it'd be fairly easy to beat a back who's not used to tackling and score a goal past a goalie not used to diving.
By the way, the goalie would also need to wear a jersey so he can be identified as the player that can't be shoulder-charged.
I think you are missing the spirit of what i am suggesting. You would have 7 defenders - all of them skilled at tackling, comfortable on the ball (although i'm not so sure too many teams can tick the box of saying they have 6 defenders that can do this never mind 7!) and 1 of them with an additional skill set being able to pop a kick out 50 yards from a 2 step run-up to whoever is in most space or is running on to the ball (or alternatively just wallop it down the middle ::) )
By the way, what is a tackle ?!
Karl lacey is now available at 14/1 for player of the year think il put something on him at that price he has been the best defender in the country this year
Quote from: donegal lad on August 11, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
Karl lacey is now available at 14/1 for player of the year think il put something on him at that price he has been the best defender in the country this year
well it's better value than backing donegal for the all ireland as he could still win even if they lose in the final - they have to beat the dubs though as it's practically unprecedented for a player to win who only made the semi-final ;)
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 11, 2011, 12:02:49 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on August 11, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
Karl lacey is now available at 14/1 for player of the year think il put something on him at that price he has been the best defender in the country this year
well it's better value than backing donegal for the all ireland as he could still win even if they lose in the final - they have to beat the dubs though as it's practically unprecedented for a player to win who only made the semi-final ;)
Sure did brogan not win it last year?
Quote from: orchard 8195 on August 11, 2011, 12:08:54 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 11, 2011, 12:02:49 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on August 11, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
Karl lacey is now available at 14/1 for player of the year think il put something on him at that price he has been the best defender in the country this year
well it's better value than backing donegal for the all ireland as he could still win even if they lose in the final - they have to beat the dubs though as it's practically unprecedented for a player to win who only made the semi-final ;)
Sure did brogan not win it last year?
Aye, but the dubs won the all ireland last year didn't they (or at least played in the real final)? Maybe last year was more about the esteem in which Cork have been held by most pundits and fans.
Quote from: blast05 on August 09, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
In terms of the importance of the various parts of a keepers game to the overall makeup of a keeper, i would rate:
40% on kickouts.
20% for communicator, organiser, leader, motivator etc to the backs.
15% for playing as a sweeper.
15% for ability to deal with a high ball.
10% on shot-stopper
Cluxton is by a country mile the best on the kickouts. The amount of keepers that just bang it down the middle is shocking .... and even when they do direct it involves a huge change in their run up - so much so that any outfielder play would be able to read it and cover 40 yards to where they expect the kickout will land (think the Cork keeper here or McConnell). As an aisde .... how long before we see a keeper confident enough to kick it out with either foot .... the tee has been used for a good few years now and i would have expected this to have happened before now.
Masterson is the best as a sweeper (sure enough he plays his club football in midfield.
For communicator, organiser, motivator etc i think Gary Connaughton would be best.
High ball ...... again Gary Connaughton but i can recall a mistake or 2 cos of being over-ambitious. Robert Hennelly may prove to be good on this on in time.
Shot stopper.... leave that to others to debate. I don't think its that important, moreso given that i think there isn't a whole lot between most top keepers on this one anyway. Some keepers are forced into action on this one more than others and thus get a reputation as good shot stoppers.
I don't particularly rate McConnell (completely 1-dimensional on kickouts) nor did i ever think much of Murphy (average keeper on a great team - had an opportunity to make 2 or 3 saves in high profile games throughout his career and is remembered cos of it) while David Clarkes kick outs were and are atrocious for this level .... yes, he can kick them long but just pray there isn't a wind. If he had been playing in the Connacht final, some of his kickouts into the wind would have been liable to end up as 'own points' !
All in ...... Cluxton or Masterson for me.
Christ above.. So 55% of a goalkeepers game is on Kickouts and playing as a sweeper. Answer me this have you ever actually played in goals? The goalkeepers primary job is to try keep a big fat 0 on the left handside of the score board. To do this you need to be excellent under a high ball (25%), A good organiser and good communicator(20%) and a good shot stopper (25%). Distribution (including kickouts) 25%. The final 5% is ability to handle pressure. Playing as a sweeper has fck all got to do with being a top class goalie. Masterson might like to come out othe field and show off but at the end of the day if he could have caught a high ball in the Leinster final Wexford could have been Leinster champions. best goalkeeper is Cluxton although no one could complain if Durkan got it because he hasnt conceded a goal yet. Honourable mention to the laois goalie Culleton i think who was unreal verses Dublin
Andy Moran
Marc O Se ;D
Andy Moran a dead cert for Mayo. No one else from Mayo this year after today.
As for Kerry alot are just plodding along and AIF will decide the fates of 5/6 of them. Cooper and O'Sullivan (Dec ) both certainties, with Darran O'Sullivan probably there.
Moran deffo for Mayo..........Mortimer may get a mention
Certs for kerry gooch, dec osullivan, maybe sheehan.....................
Andy Moran should defo be in with a shout. Would love to see Trevor Mort get one. Don't know if he will after today though! Cillian O'Connor might have a chance for young player of the year!
With us gone I think we've a air chance at three with andy Moran guaranteed and possibly Donie vaughan and cillian o'connor possibles
Andy Moran deserves one.
Cillian O'Connor has a chance at Young Player of the Year.
T Mort has a shot - mainly based on a lack of outstanding wing backs and the bit of sentimentality that sometimes comes into play. If he does get one it would mean all three Morts would have an All-Star.
After that I don't think any other Mayo player played consistently enough to get one (bar Kevin McLoughlin possibly)
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 22, 2011, 05:13:42 PM
With us gone I think we've a air chance at three with andy Moran guaranteed and possibly Donie vaughan and cillian o'connor possibles
Just the one I think going on what recent losing AISFs got. Dublin and Kildare only got the one each last year despite losiing by a point each.
Mayo might end up with none - could you imagine the rancour?! The way I'd see it is that the two Mayo guys who deserve to be in contention are Andy Moran and Donie Vaughan. Moran has been Mayo's best player in two games - Galway and Cork, and was very good yesterday and also in London. Vaughan was very good v Galway and Man of the Match yesterday for Mayo - on Declan O'Sullivan. He might be in with as good a shout as Moran because there might be more room in the half-back line than the full-forward line. Andy might be considered at 12 too but his best work has been inside.
Trevor Mort might be in with a shout as might Keith Higgins but mainly because they have a relatively good profile and were solid in most of what they did. None of them excelled though.
I think the spilt this yr could be different as all 4 semi finalists won their province.
Also don't think there are 15 lads who have been consistently good, nearly all players in contention have had off days, with the exception of Lacey and a few more.
Is it not still split into backs and forwards rather than positions?
I would think that Andy Moran is Mayo's best bet with Cillian in with a great chance of getting the Young Player award.
Moran was excellent in all of Mayo's games this season and yesterday he was the only one who had the beating of his marker from start to finish. For consistency alone, he deserves the nod.
I really can't see any other who is in contention.
I thought Alan Dillon was in with a fighting chance until yesterday but I can't see him getting one now.
Kerry,Dublin,Donegal will get most of the All-Stars Andy Moran should get one while O'Connor,Donal Vaughan,Trevor Mortimer etc will get nominated.
I think it is now split by the lines but used to be by into just backs, midfielders, forwards, goalies. I could be wrong on this.
I agree on Cillian O'Connor being in with a shout for Young Player. Who are the other contenders?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 22, 2011, 07:28:50 PM
I would think that Andy Moran is Mayo's best bet with Cillian in with a great chance of getting the Young Player award.
Moran was excellent in all of Mayo's games this season and yesterday he was the only one who had the beating of his marker from start to finish. For consistency alone, he deserves the nod.
I really can't see any other who is in contention.
I thought Alan Dillon was in with a fighting chance until yesterday but I can't see him getting one now.
Really? apart from the London game Alan Dillon IMO was disappointing, compared to 2006 when he was one of Mayo's best forwards.
If Dublin make the All Ireland final Rory O'Carroll will probably get the young player of the year.
Think Andy Moran is ye're only shot to be honest. The two finalists will dominate the selection as they usually do. Will only leave a couple of vacant spaces for others.
I can't see anyone from outside the semis making it
I also think Keith Higgins and Donal Vaughan have been very good for us this year especially Donal considering he had to have an operation this year and then recover for the championship so quick.
Quote from: Canalman on August 22, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 22, 2011, 05:13:42 PM
With us gone I think we've a air chance at three with andy Moran guaranteed and possibly Donie vaughan and cillian o'connor possibles
Just the one I think going on what recent losing AISFs got. Dublin and Kildare only got the one each last year despite losiing by a point each.
Kildare got two - Doyle & Kelly.
Difficult to see anyone from outside the semi-finalsts getting one this year. Wasn't Jordan the only one last year?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2011, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: Canalman on August 22, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on August 22, 2011, 05:13:42 PM
With us gone I think we've a air chance at three with andy Moran guaranteed and possibly Donie vaughan and cillian o'connor possibles
Just the one I think going on what recent losing AISFs got. Dublin and Kildare only got the one each last year despite losiing by a point each.
Kildare got two - Doyle & Kelly.
Difficult to see anyone from outside the semi-finalsts getting one this year. Wasn't Jordan the only one last year?
charlie harrison from sligo got one last year
Can't find the player of the year thread.
Bernard Brogan is surely in the running for back to back player of the year awards, not at the heights of last year in terms of scoring but more of a team player and has been consistently good in every game this year. Alan is being talked about as favourite, he was ok today but poor enough v Donegal in the SF.
Quote from: Orangemac on September 18, 2011, 10:52:54 PM
Can't find the player of the year thread.
Bernard Brogan is surely in the running for back to back player of the year awards, not at the heights of last year in terms of scoring but more of a team player and has been consistently good in every game this year. Alan is being talked about as favourite, he was ok today but poor enough v Donegal in the SF.
Did he not get the Man of the match after that game?
Karl Lacey would be my pick.
Quote from: ross4life on September 18, 2011, 10:56:37 PM
Karl Lacey would be my pick.
He'd be mine - played at the top of his game during every game this year- never had an off day.
Drove Donegal to the semi and but for injury could have made the final.
Sunday game panel went mostly for Alan Brogan player of the year & Cillian O'Connor young player.
Player of the year is just media nonsense and it's always given to a member of the champion team.
Darren O'Sullivan for me.
What was the sunday game team oof the year?
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 19, 2011, 08:11:34 AM
What was the sunday game team oof the year?
Sunday game Team of the Year
1. S.Cluxton (Dublin)
2. M. Ó Sé (Kerry)
3. N. McGee (Donegal)
4. R. O'Carroll (Dublin)
5. K. Cassidy (Donegal)
6. K. Lacey (Donegal)
7. K. Nolan (Dublin)
8. B. Sheehan (Kerry)
9. J. Doyle (Kildare)
10. Darren O'Sullivan (Kerry)
11. A. Brogan (Dublin)
12. P. Flynn (Dublin)
13. C. Cooper (Kerry)
14. A. Moran (Mayo)
15. B. Brogan (Dublin
There is no way Bernard Brogan should get Player of the Year. I think it should be one of the easiest decisions in a while this year with Karl Lacey being outstanding.
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 19, 2011, 08:35:42 AM
There is no way Bernard Brogan should get Player of the Year. I think it should be one of the easiest decisions in a while this year with Karl Lacey being outstanding.
Even Seanie Fitzpatrick could keep it tight in a 13 man defense.
It was the year of defending - it will be a cop out if a defender doesn't get it.
Nominations for Player of the Year IMO should be:
Bryan Sheehan- thrown into a new position and as the year wore on he dominated games. The games best free taker. He was my MOTM yesterday.
Darren O Sullivan- tore defences apart all year with his direct running often leading to goals. Took the responsibility off Gooch alot as Kerrys go to player this year.
Stephen Cluxton- has developed his game even further this year with his kick outs being of massive importance for Dublin. Anybody in doubt of his influence should watch the Tyrone game again where he consistently found runners perfectly with his quick kick outs. Then yesterday to top it all.
Alan Brogan- another who has developed his game further this year. Popped up with massive scores all year but it was his work rate and dropping deep to close out games that I feel he really deserves mention for.
Karl Lacey- performed whatever role he was asked to with class and conviction. Whether it was marking the oppositions best forward or playing centre half and driving at the opposition. His hunger for the ball and his constant running is immense. May have beaten Dublin had he stayed on the field.
I'd nominate:
Alan Brogan - I hope he gets it;
Colm McFadden - given the job of 6 men and did well at times;
Ben Brosnan - if one wanted a wildcard this would be my nomination;
Johnny Doyle - provided some of the best moments of the year before running out of steam a bit;
It's a straight shoot-out between Lacey and A Brogan.
Alas while Lacey was the most influential player in the championship and his substitution in the AI SF was I consider the seminal moment in this years championship romance and the Dublin media will dictate that A Brogan will collect the award.
alan brogan will get it with all the hype that surrounds dublin
I think that Cluxton really deserves to be player of the year. There has been no outstanding player this year like there was with Brogan last year. But Cluxton has been superb all season. I can not believe any keeper has contributed more to his county winning an All-Ireland final. A man who's job is essentially to stop shots has been instrumental in distribution, leadership and most importantly stepping up in the last minute to take all the pressure of 16 years of hurt on his shoulders.
If Cluxton is not player of the season then a goalkeeper can never be player of the season. I simply do not believe that an all-star is enough reward for his contribution.
He could run for president?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2011, 01:16:10 PM
He could run for president?
It could be between the shot stopper and the sharpshooter!
Am I the only one who thought Cluxton had a stinker of a final? Three kick outs in a row were straight to Kerry and even 2 v 1 where the Kerry lads didn't even have to catch. For me he was single handedly giving Kerry the match in the second half. Fair play to him for the free but if that's ur criteria it should be McMenamin, effectively won the semi & the final.
For me Cluxton played himself out of an all-star and Kealy played himself into it.
Cue the slating for daring to suggest St. Stephen had a bad game!
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 20, 2011, 06:22:46 PM
Am I the only one who thought Cluxton had a stinker of a final? Three kick outs in a row were straight to Kerry and even 2 v 1 where the Kerry lads didn't even have to catch. For me he was single handedly giving Kerry the match in the second half. Fair play to him for the free but if that's ur criteria it should be McMenamin, effectively won the semi & the final.
For me Cluxton played himself out of an all-star and Kealy played himself into it.
Cue the slating for daring to suggest St. Stephen had a bad game!
A friend of mine who was sitting in the lower canal in the 2nd half, said he was shrugging his shoulders and throwing his hands up in the air a few times after kickouts that went astray.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 20, 2011, 06:22:46 PM
Am I the only one who thought Cluxton had a stinker of a final? Three kick outs in a row were straight to Kerry and even 2 v 1 where the Kerry lads didn't even have to catch. For me he was single handedly giving Kerry the match in the second half. Fair play to him for the free but if that's ur criteria it should be McMenamin, effectively won the semi & the final.
For me Cluxton played himself out of an all-star and Kealy played himself into it.
Cue the slating for daring to suggest St. Stephen had a bad game!
Agree with this Mayo4Sam. Fair play to him for sticking over that free but he is getting undue credit for a reasonably simple score (albeit there was serious pressure). If Brogan or Sheehan had scored it there wouldn't be the same fuss.
When it came down to his day job he had no saves of note to make in either final or semi final. In fact if Dublin had not got that goal any rational analysis would pinpoint Dubln losing 4/5 kick outs in a row midway through the 2nd half as the losing of the game.
Opel GAA/GPA All Star Nominations Breakdown:
Dublin 12
Kerry 9
Donegal 7
Mayo 5
Kildare 5
Cork 3
Tyrone 2
Wexford 1
Derry 1
Quote from: Tubberman on October 04, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
Opel GAA/GPA All Star Nominations Breakdown:
Dublin 12
Kerry 9
Donegal 7
Mayo 5
Kildare 5
Cork 3
Tyrone 2
Wexford 1
Derry 1
7 Donegal men, surely not for their puke football style of play? :P
Michael Murphy nominated as a defender ffs! *
* may in fact be as far from the truth as he was from the opposition goals
And now the full list:
Goalkeepers: Brendan Kealy (Kerry), Stephen Cluxton (Dublin), Paul Durkan (Donegal).
Full Backs: Michael Foley (Kildare), Neil McGee (Donegal), Frank McGlynn (Donegal), Marc Ó Sé (Kerry), Rory O'Carroll (Dublin), Tom O'Sullivan (Kerry), Joe McMahon (Tyrone), Hugh McGrillen (Kildare), Cian O'Sullivan (Dublin).
Half backs: Karl Lacey (Donegal), Donal Vaughan (Mayo), Trevor Mortimer (Mayo), Kevin Nolan (Dublin), Kevin Cassidy (Donegal), Emmet Bolton (Kildare), Tomás Ó Sé (Kerry), Killian Young (Kerry), Ger Brennan (Dublin).
Midfielders: Bryan Sheehan (Kerry), Michael Darragh Macauley (Dublin), Alan O'Connor (Cork), Seán Cavanagh (Tyrone), John Doyle (Kildare), Denis Bastick (Dublin).
Half Forwards: Ben Brosnan (Wexford), Alan Brogan (Dublin), Darran O'Sullivan (Kerry), Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry), Paul Flynn (Dublin), Alan Dillon (Mayo), Kevin McManamon (Dublin), Paddy Kelly (Cork), Eamonn Callaghan (Kildare).
Full forwards: Donnacha O'Connor (Cork), Michael Murphy (Donegal), Bernard Brogan (Dublin), Colm Cooper (Kerry), Andy Moran (Mayo), Colm McFadden (Donegal), Eoin Bradley (Derry), Diarmuid Connolly (Dublin), Cillian O'Connor (Mayo).
Cluxton
McGlynn, O'Se, McGrillen
Cassidy, Lacey, Young
Sheehan, Doyle
Brogan, Darran O'Sullivan, Brosnan
Cooper, Moran, Brogan
If it were me I would have McManamon in the HF line but I doubt they would give one to someone who was a sub for a long part of the season. He did have a lot of impact though.
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2011, 02:05:13 PM
Michael Murphy nominated as a defender ffs! *
* may in fact be as far from the truth as he was from the opposition goals
He actually played full forward in most of the games (can't remember the Antrim one). People really are getting carried away with the Dublin game.
At the Cork game I was laughing at a couple of Cork lads who kept shouted 'skin him, skin him' at Paul Kerrigan every time he got the ball and couldn't figure out 'why de feck isn't he skinning him?'. Darran O'Sullivan (first couple of minutes accepted) is another whose skinning ability was severely restricted.
But no Keith Higgins.
I thought Dublin's #5 was their best half back this year and he's the only one of them not to get a nomination.
I guess a lot of the nominations are to be expected. Not sure about Joe McMahon or maybe Killian Young mind.
How did Dillon get nominated?
One of Mayo's most talented footballers but I thought he had a very average year. I would have Kevin McLoughlin in ahead of him from Mayo alone.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 04, 2011, 03:20:36 PM
I thought Dublin's #5 was their best half back this year and he's the only one of them not to get a nomination.
I guess a lot of the nominations are to be expected. Not sure about Joe McMahon or maybe Killian Young mind.
joe mcmahon gave probably the best fullback display of the year against armagh.
not in running for an actuall allstar but definatly worthy of nomination
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2011, 02:30:19 PM
Cluxton
McGlynn, O'Se, McGrillen
Cassidy, Lacey, Young
Sheehan, Doyle
Brogan, Darran O'Sullivan, Brosnan
Cooper, Moran, Brogan
If it were me I would have McManamon in the HF line but I doubt they would give one to someone who was a sub for a long part of the season. He did have a lot of impact though.
5 Kerryman and only 3 for the gym monkeys? Do you actually believe that team will be picked ot are you just trying to get Indiana going again?
Is it just me who thinks it's not the highest quality of All Star nominees this year? It wasn't the best championship, but these nominees kind of highlight the lack of individual prowess around this summer. I can't think of anyone bar Lacey, Cluxton and Cooper who are genuine All Stars for consistently high performance and/or turning in a huge display in a huge game.
If Bryan Sheehan is in the top 20 midfielders in the country then my name is MikeySheehy2. He had a good year, but not that good.
5 Mayo,Kildare players? they should have gave them three each & spread the other nominations out.
Anyways i'll be surprised if Kerry get more than 3 All-stars this year (D O'Sullivan,Sheehan,Cooper) Dublin i think will get 6/7, 2/3 for Donegal & one each for Kildare,Wexford & Mayo.
Thought Keith Higgins should have got a nomination in the full back line. I think the reason he didn't was because of his behaviour in the Galway and Kerry game.
Don't think Alan Dillon was great this year. I think Kevin Mcloughlin should have been nominated instead.
Reckon we (Dublin) will get 4/5. Dubs who imo (very biased) should get one
Cluxton
O'Carroll (v unlucky in 2010)
Nolan
McAuley (v unlucky in 2010)
Flynn
Brogans x2.
Hurlers should get 3 .......... Maguire, Rushe and hopefully Kelly (although I think his mistake in AISF will cost him). Paul Ryan maybe.
Donncha O'Connor should be on it also.
How is Cullen not nominated while Dillion and Kelly are?
Quote from: Zulu on October 04, 2011, 05:32:16 PM
How is Cullen not nominated while Dillion and Kelly are?
He has been excellent all year - how he has been excluded (leaving aside players from other counties) I don't know.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2011, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Zulu on October 04, 2011, 05:32:16 PM
How is Cullen not nominated while Dillion and Kelly are?
He has been excellent all year - how he has been excluded (leaving aside players from other counties) I don't know.
is 12 not enough
Quote from: thewobbler on October 04, 2011, 05:08:11 PM
Is it just me who thinks it's not the highest quality of All Star nominees this year? It wasn't the best championship, but these nominees kind of highlight the lack of individual prowess around this summer. I can't think of anyone bar Lacey, Cluxton and Cooper who are genuine All Stars for consistently high performance and/or turning in a huge display in a huge game.
If Bryan Sheehan is in the top 20 midfielders in the country then my name is MikeySheehy2. He had a good year, but not that good.
Its just you
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 04, 2011, 06:44:09 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2011, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Zulu on October 04, 2011, 05:32:16 PM
How is Cullen not nominated while Dillion and Kelly are?
He has been excellent all year - how he has been excluded (leaving aside players from other counties) I don't know.
is 12 not enough
If 12 is the max number of nominations Dublin are getting then he should be one of the 12.
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2011, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 04, 2011, 06:44:09 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 04, 2011, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: Zulu on October 04, 2011, 05:32:16 PM
How is Cullen not nominated while Dillion and Kelly are?
He has been excellent all year - how he has been excluded (leaving aside players from other counties) I don't know.
is 12 not enough
If 12 is the max number of nominations Dublin are getting then he should be one of the 12.
I see your point Heffo,but you know yourself if you asked 50 people for AS noms you'd a very varied list
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 04, 2011, 03:52:53 PM
How did Dillon get nominated?
One of Mayo's most talented footballers but I thought he had a very average year. I would have Kevin McLoughlin in ahead of him from Mayo alone.
I wouldn t worry about it. It s a mess.
Quote from: ross4life on October 04, 2011, 05:12:07 PM
5 Mayo,Kildare players? they should have gave them three each & spread the other nominations out.
Anyways i'll be surprised if Kerry get more than 3 All-stars this year (D O'Sullivan,Sheehan,Cooper) Dublin i think will get 6/7, 2/3 for Donegal & one each for Kildare,Wexford & Mayo.
Why lump Mayo and Kildare together? Mayo deserved at least 5 but I don t believe the right ones got nominated. Saying that, the All Stars doesn t have much appeal for me.
Donegal get 7. Fair enough. I ve no problem with Donegal, unlike a lot of others. So why was so many people moaning about them? The way they play is ridiculed yet the players that execute it are lauded? The fourth estate need to make up their minds.
I suspect that this years AI semi between Mayo and Kerry will be the last of an 'open' type of championship match we will see when the games hit Summer. If Mayo had left their sweeper intact and had another couple years on the road they could have kept the losing margin to 5-6 points. Which should have been the margin in the final really when you think about it.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 04, 2011, 05:08:11 PM
Is it just me who thinks it's not the highest quality of All Star nominees this year? It wasn't the best championship, but these nominees kind of highlight the lack of individual prowess around this summer. I can't think of anyone bar Lacey, Cluxton and Cooper who are genuine All Stars for consistently high performance and/or turning in a huge display in a huge game.
If Bryan Sheehan is in the top 20 midfielders in the country then my name is MikeySheehy2. He had a good year, but not that good.
Midfield selections look particularly poor this year including 2 forwards and a defender who were shipped into midfield. Days of high fielding of kick outs seem to be over.
On the subject of Michael Murphy when you see the performance he gave last weekend for Glenswilly surely Jim McGuinness can find someone to do the spadework out the field easier than he can find another forward of Murphy's quality.
Quote from: Orangemac on October 04, 2011, 10:53:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 04, 2011, 05:08:11 PM
Is it just me who thinks it's not the highest quality of All Star nominees this year? It wasn't the best championship, but these nominees kind of highlight the lack of individual prowess around this summer. I can't think of anyone bar Lacey, Cluxton and Cooper who are genuine All Stars for consistently high performance and/or turning in a huge display in a huge game.
If Bryan Sheehan is in the top 20 midfielders in the country then my name is MikeySheehy2. He had a good year, but not that good.
Midfield selections look particularly poor this year including 2 forwards and a defender who were shipped into midfield. Days of high fielding of kick outs seem to be over.
On the subject of Michael Murphy when you see the performance he gave last weekend for Glenswilly surely Jim McGuinness can find someone to do the spadework out the field easier than he can find another forward of Murphy's quality.
I doubt it.
Jack O Connor wanted at least 2 Kieran Donaghy s this year. This was a manager spoiled in the past with likes of Darragh, McCarty, Kennelly, Walsh, Griffin and Moynihan, but in spite of Kerry s reputation there are as limited as many when it comes to top quality at the business end of the year. Kerry know quality is best and Brosnan was a great call at 6. The hit that emptied him out with about 8 min to go ( it was a borderline hit imo) probably won Dublin the AI. O Connor made the mistake of putting Donaghy in ff when he was playing to great effect in midfield. He fell between 2 stools. Don t think for a minute that McGuinness would have used Murphy the way he did if he could have afforded to leave him inside. In any county there is a limited no. who can play at the level required when it gets serious.
Bryan Cullen not being nominated is wrong, end of. Alan Dillon contributed nowhere near as much. He's a fine player, Dillon, but he had an indifferent year. If there's a fifth Mayo man to go for, it'd be Higgins for me but, as pointed out, his behaviour in the Kerry and Galway games probably didn't help him.
Nominations can always be full of strange calls and you'd hope that the final selection will be closer to the reality of the season just gone. I would love to know who sits on the All-Star selection committee and do they each make a point of watching every single game of consequence either in the flesh or on TV? I know that might sound aspirational but if Paddy Kelly is being nominated after being cleaned in the All-Ireland quarter-final, is it just because of a good game v Kerry or have the selectors tracked him for every game?
Teams like Kildare and Donegal are being assisted by playing in more games that are high profile and likely to be attended by more judges. I doubt there were too many judges at the Connacht final who could see how well Mayo defended in awful conditions.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on October 05, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Bryan Cullen not being nominated is wrong, end of. Alan Dillon contributed nowhere near as much. He's a fine player, Dillon, but he had an indifferent year. If there's a fifth Mayo man to go for, it'd be Higgins for me but, as pointed out, his behaviour in the Kerry and Galway games probably didn't help him.
Nominations can always be full of strange calls and you'd hope that the final selection will be closer to the reality of the season just gone. I would love to know who sits on the All-Star selection committee and do they each make a point of watching every single game of consequence either in the flesh or on TV? I know that might sound aspirational but if Paddy Kelly is being nominated after being cleaned in the All-Ireland quarter-final, is it just because of a good game v Kerry or have the selectors tracked him for every game?
Teams like Kildare and Donegal are being assisted by playing in more games that are high profile and likely to be attended by more judges. I doubt there were too many judges at the Connacht final who could see how well Mayo defended in awful conditions.
Good points, a radical shake-up needs to happen. Players can have 1 or 2 brilliant games yet their team could be put out early, should they be punished as a result? You mentioned Kelly, the same could be applied to McMahon who had a brilliant game against Armagh and had Murphy in his back pocket against Donegal yet wasn't brilliant against Dublin.
Well done to all nominee's
Quote from: moysider on October 04, 2011, 10:29:02 PM
Quote from: ross4life on October 04, 2011, 05:12:07 PM
5 Mayo,Kildare players? they should have gave them three each & spread the other nominations out.
Anyways i'll be surprised if Kerry get more than 3 All-stars this year (D O'Sullivan,Sheehan,Cooper) Dublin i think will get 6/7, 2/3 for Donegal & one each for Kildare,Wexford & Mayo.
Why lump Mayo and Kildare together? Mayo deserved at least 5 but I don t believe the right ones got nominated. Saying that, the All Stars doesn t have much appeal for me.
That's your point of view but IMO only three players from Mayo stood out this year (Vaughan,O'Connor & Moran) others like McLoughlin,Hennelly,Mortimer,Dillion etc were good in parts but didn't deserve All-star nominations e.g team effort instead of individual brilliance & i'm sure the hardcore Kildare fans were surprised with the 5 nominations.
Tweet from @DubMatchTracker:
Congrats on our All-Stars @alanbrogan13 @bernardbrogan @Flinto23 MDMA, @KevinNolan7 and Stephen Cluxton
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 21, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
Tweet from @DubMatchTracker:
Congrats on our All-Stars @alanbrogan13 @bernardbrogan @Flinto23 MDMA, @KevinNolan7 and Stephen Cluxton
Thats true - O'Carroll missed out.
Quote from: heffo on October 21, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 21, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
Tweet from @DubMatchTracker:
Congrats on our All-Stars @alanbrogan13 @bernardbrogan @Flinto23 MDMA, @KevinNolan7 and Stephen Cluxton
Thats true - O'Carroll missed out.
What's the rest of the line up heffo?
Quote from: heffo on October 21, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 21, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
Tweet from @DubMatchTracker:
Congrats on our All-Stars @alanbrogan13 @bernardbrogan @Flinto23 MDMA, @KevinNolan7 and Stephen Cluxton
Thats true - O'Carroll missed out.
MDMA - should have got it last year certainly not this year
When O'Carroll doesn't get announced tonight expect a couple thousand cans of dutchie to be fecked at TV screens all across Dublin especially if Mick Foley gets the nod....
Whats the verdict on the team? Foley, MDMA,Gooch possibly debatable?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 21, 2011, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: heffo on October 21, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 21, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
Tweet from @DubMatchTracker:
Congrats on our All-Stars @alanbrogan13 @bernardbrogan @Flinto23 MDMA, @KevinNolan7 and Stephen Cluxton
Thats true - O'Carroll missed out.
MDMA - should have got it last year certainly not this year
When O'Carroll doesn't get announced tonight expect a couple thousand cans of dutchie to be fecked at TV screens all across Dublin especially if Mick Foley gets the nod....
There is a definite trend in All-star selections that means you are likely to get it a year late rather than when you made the big set-up.
Would have picked O'Carroll,Doyle,Brosnan instead of Foley,MDMA,Flynn anyway well done to the Andy Moran on his All-star the town of Ballaghaderreen will be delighted.
Dear lord the All Stars are a joke!!
If this is what they are going to do each year they should do away with them!!!
Ross4life I am delighted Balla is happy for Andy. I was just as happy for Geesalas Pat Lindsey and Castlebars Dermot Early when they won All Stars with Roscommon in the 1980s.
Any chance of someone posting the final selection?
2011 GAA/GPA Football All Stars
Goalkeeper:
Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
Full backs:
Marc O'Sé (Kerry), Neill McGee (Donegal), Michael Foley (Kildare)
Half backs:
Kevin Cassidy (Donegal), Karl Lacey (Donegal), Kevin Nolan (Dublin)
Midfield:
Bryan Sheehy (Kerry), Michael Darragh Macauley (Dublin)
Half forwards:
Darran O'Sullivan (Kerry), Alan Brogan (Dublin), Paul Flynn (Dublin)
Full forwards:
Colm Cooper (Kerry), Andy Moran (Mayo), Bernard Brogan (Dublin)
I think Down would stand a very good chance of beating that team. Cork, Kerry or Dublin would eat them up.
Worst all star selection ever IMHO.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2011, 10:49:45 PM
I think Down would stand a very good chance of beating that team. Cork, Kerry or Dublin would eat them up.
Worst all star selection ever IMHO.
[/b]
Seriously ?
Why so ?. Is it cos of all the Dubs ?. ;)
Quote from: orangeman on October 21, 2011, 10:07:04 PM
2011 GAA/GPA Football All Stars
Goalkeeper:
Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
Full backs:
Marc O'Sé (Kerry), Neill McGee (Donegal), Michael Foley (Kildare)
Half backs:
Kevin Cassidy (Donegal), Karl Lacey (Donegal), Kevin Nolan (Dublin)
Midfield:
Bryan Sheehy (Kerry), Michael Darragh Macauley (Dublin)
Half forwards:
Darran O'Sullivan (Kerry), Alan Brogan (Dublin), Paul Flynn (Dublin)
Full forwards:
Colm Cooper (Kerry), Andy Moran (Mayo), Bernard Brogan (Dublin)
If he is the premier midfielder in the country then the GAA is in a bad way.
Quote from: trileacman on October 21, 2011, 11:15:48 PM
Quote from: orangeman on October 21, 2011, 10:07:04 PM
2011 GAA/GPA Football All Stars
Goalkeeper:
Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)
Full backs:
Marc O'Sé (Kerry), Neill McGee (Donegal), Michael Foley (Kildare)
Half backs:
Kevin Cassidy (Donegal), Karl Lacey (Donegal), Kevin Nolan (Dublin)
Midfield:
Bryan Sheehy (Kerry), Michael Darragh Macauley (Dublin)
Half forwards:
Darran O'Sullivan (Kerry), Alan Brogan (Dublin), Paul Flynn (Dublin)
Full forwards:
Colm Cooper (Kerry), Andy Moran (Mayo), Bernard Brogan (Dublin)
If he is the premier midfielder in the country then the GAA is in a bad way.
His brother posts on here, say nothing
Johnny Doyle who is one of the country's finest footballers was nominated as a midfielder as well. Neither Johnny or Bryan Sheehan would have been recognised as midfielders but they clearly had very good seasons.
Sheehan especially fielded some great ball.
Is it a sign of the changing world in the GAA ?.
There would appear to be a couple of simpletons on this forum. Screenexile and the Down poster above certainly amongst them!!
Have to say, it's a very good AllStar team. Not many selections I could disagree with: possibly would have had Rory O'Carroll in instead of Marc O'Se and Emmett Bolton for Kevin Nolan but you'll always get close calls like that!
Very good AllStar team......and a reflection of the best players in 2011. Well done to all the receiptants and to the people who picked the team.
Well done the Kerry lads and nice recognition for Shane Nolan. Bryan Sheehan has to now up the ante , David Moran will be back next year and competition will be good.other than that I thought Killian Young was unlucky and its always good to see one hit wonders like cork getting nothing.
Well done to the three Donegal lads. Very well deserved! ;D
Karl Lacey is the first Donegal player to receive three All Stars. Kevin Cassidy is only the third to get a second award, after Lacey himself and Martin McHugh (like McHugh, his second came nine years after his first!).
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2011, 10:49:45 PM
I think Down would stand a very good chance of beating that team. Cork, Kerry or Dublin would eat them up.
Worst all star selection ever IMHO.
On that basis it brings home how shite down are really
Wobbler, are u mad? Down beat a team that has cooper and the 2 brogans up front? down would be cut through every time! and yes, so would armagh, so there's your reply hammered.
It always strikes me how much attention is given to the all-star event, it's such rubbish. Even when armagh were at the business end of things in finals and semi finals, i never took much notice. The media sometimes talk about maybe a certain player from a smaller county getting an award to represent that county's run that year, what bulllshit! a man should get it if he has been outstanding and that's it. I know some people have complained about player's like joe mcmahan etc not getting one, but i think it really needs to generally come from players having big games in the quarter final, semi final, and final. If your team doesn't get there then tough luck. Was it galvin or keenan got one last year? they were exceptions.
And just cause a team wins the all ireland, doesnt mean they have to get 6-8 all stars, they already have the main award that matters. Had kerry hung on for another 5 mins, there would be arguments for more kerry men, fine margins. The 3 donegal lads deserve their awards big time, brilliant players.
Quote from: ross4life on October 21, 2011, 07:49:40 PM
well done to the Andy Moran on his All-star the town of Ballaghaderreen will be delighted.
Spot on R4L. Congrats to Andy, well deserved All-Star award & a very popular winner with all in Ballagh.
Congrats to Andy and a special mention to the YPOTY (although I hope he has a quiet one today).
In winning it Cillian joins some serious forwards such as Stephen O'Neill, Ronan Clarke and Michael Donnellan. Hopefully he goes on to emulate them.
Well done to Andy and Cillian! They both had great seasons and I'm delighted they got some kind of compensation for the hard work they put in all year. Also congratulations to all the other Mayo nominees.
My main issue with this year's All Stars is that only 4 of them- Cluxton, Lacey, B Brogan and Cooper - are stonewallers as among the best XV in the country, and even at that, the latter two had average rather than explosive years. They're all very good players, but I'd have always hoped that All Star awards were for better players again.
Marc O Se is a fine player who had a decent year, nothing more, and got this award more for being an O Se than for his performances.
Niall McGee is again a fine player (they all are) but he'd the luxury of 6 half backs playing in front of him all year. It would take a monumental fcuk up of a full back not to look good in those circumstances.
Foley was the wrong Kildare man, and even at that, along with Mac Lochlainn, O Se and McGee, was a long way behind Eoin Cadogan as the best man marker in the country in 2011.
Cassidy scored a wonder point vs Kildare but on my humble opinion had one of his weaker seasons on. Donegal shirt. He was good, but this was an All Star for services rendered rather than 2011 performances.
Lacey, outstanding and more than deserved.
Nolan, no real complaints about this one either. If he has another top year in 2012 he could move into the exalted company.
McAuley did nothing of note in 2011 apart from get back into the Dublin team.
Sheehan is a disgraceful decision. Kicking 60m frees is about as relevant to midfield play as how far you can throw an onion. Kerry got universally cleaned out at midfield this year any time Galvin wasn't on the field, and Sheehan was the main reason why.
Darran O Sullivan surprised me this year. I really didn't think he had it in him to contribute in every game. So no real complaints here. Much like Nolan, I hope he does it again next year and makes a fool of me. I just can't see it in this one's case though.
In a team lacking stars, Alan Brogan took on the Jason Sherlock role for Dublin this year. The media needed a poster boy and this was the closest thy could find. He did little wrong, and he popped up with some big scores, but this is not player of the year material in my book. I don't even know if he was All Star material.
Flynn. Originally i thought that this was a political decision to keep Dublin's numbers up. But why him? I don't even remember him featuring this year. If Flynn is an All Star and Cullen isn't even a nominee, then I truly must know nothing about football. (someone should put that line in bold in a reply).
Moran is an interesting one. A formerly useful player who had an outstanding year, in some ways it's hard to argue with his inclusion. Yet it still smells of sentiment rather than than recognition.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 23, 2011, 08:53:44 PM
Foley was the wrong Kildare man, and even at that, along with Mac Lochlainn, O Se and McGee, was a long way behind Eoin Cadogan as the best man marker in the country in 2011.
Mick Foley was Kildare's best player this year by a country mile. Aindriú MacLochlainn? You cannot be serious.
Brogan and Cooper may have been slightly more average by their standards than usual however Brogan (Bernard) stood up when it counted and had a vital impact against Donegal and Kerry. Objective average is very different from subjective and the all stars should be objective...
Alan Brogan was a no brainer. I wouldn't entirely agree with Paul Flynn but he was outstanding against Tyrone.
Cassidy had his best year in a long time and Magee was excellent and should not be punished for larger numbers out the field. Still the best full back of the year.
I was very glad to see Moran get one.
I think the team isn't bad - this year there were a lot of debates in key positions especially midfield. Midfield was extremely hard to pick.
Shocked that Brogan got player of the year. The standard seems to have slipped over the past few years regarding POTY, or maybe its just a case that football is changing and there doesnt seem to be as many individuals shining as there was in previous years.
Thought O'Carroll was a banker............. especially as he was very unlucky imo not to get one last year. Has yet to win an allstar and I hope this is rectified next year.
Apart from that not a bad selection with as usual lads unlucky to not get one.
Anyone who thinks Alan Brogan isnt all-star material based on performances this year knows f*** all about Gaelic Football in my view.
Foley was by far and way Kildare's best defender this year. Foley doesnt need a blanket defence in front of him to mark a player. A rare species in the modern game.
I thought Foley was absolutely outstanding this year.
Wobbler, normally I put heed on things you say, but this
QuoteSheehan is a disgraceful decision. Kicking 60m frees is about as relevant to midfield play as how far you can throw an onion. Kerry got universally cleaned out at midfield this year any time Galvin wasn't on the field, and Sheehan was the main reason why.
Is off base. I was far from convinced by Sheehan as a midfielder at the start of the year, but I felt he did very well in that role. It was a far from stellar year for midfielders, and Sheehan was excellent against Cork, very good against Mayo and was one of Kerry's better players against Dublin. I think you are being overly harsh there.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 28, 2011, 03:58:14 PM
Wobbler, normally I put heed on things you say, but this
QuoteSheehan is a disgraceful decision. Kicking 60m frees is about as relevant to midfield play as how far you can throw an onion. Kerry got universally cleaned out at midfield this year any time Galvin wasn't on the field, and Sheehan was the main reason why.
Is off base. I was far from convinced by Sheehan as a midfielder at the start of the year, but I felt he did very well in that role. It was a far from stellar year for midfielders, and Sheehan was excellent against Cork, very good against Mayo and was one of Kerry's better players against Dublin. I think you are being overly harsh there.
I thought Sheehan was consistent all year.
Quote from: heffo on October 28, 2011, 04:24:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 28, 2011, 03:58:14 PM
Wobbler, normally I put heed on things you say, but this
QuoteSheehan is a disgraceful decision. Kicking 60m frees is about as relevant to midfield play as how far you can throw an onion. Kerry got universally cleaned out at midfield this year any time Galvin wasn't on the field, and Sheehan was the main reason why.
Is off base. I was far from convinced by Sheehan as a midfielder at the start of the year, but I felt he did very well in that role. It was a far from stellar year for midfielders, and Sheehan was excellent against Cork, very good against Mayo and was one of Kerry's better players against Dublin. I think you are being overly harsh there.
I thought Sheehan was consistent all year.
Kilkenny footballers are consistent too. ;D
I know I'm abit late but only new on here... well done to the three donegal lads :D Doing us proud up here once again ..... ;) thought murphy was unlucky .. and lacey was unluckey ot to be nominated for poty