https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2021/01/15/news/10-years-on-the-jim-mcguinness-legacy-2187404/
Thoughts? (If you can't open try "incognito mode"
Great article by Cahair O'Kane
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
Great article BTW.
Looking forward to the second part.
McGuinness and Devenney were some party pairing!
IMO, his greatest gift was to Dublin, the 2014 defeat, it became ingrained in the Dublin psyche that it would never happen again for that crop of players and especially to Jim Gavin, the gung ho total football from the previous year was dispatched for a more rigid structure that laid the foundation of what history is today.
I wouldn't say it was his greatest gift but my view would be that was the best thing ever happened that Dublin team(probably moreso management team).
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 15, 2021, 02:11:55 PM
I wouldn't say it was his greatest gift but my view would be that was the best thing ever happened that Dublin team(probably moreso management team).
Agree.
Also to state, biggest failure, or travesty, not winning it in 2014. Blew it or?
I honestly thought he couldn't adapt his tactics when Kerry played what was a pretty simple game plan. (tbh it wasn't that far from what donegal tried to do to dublin in 2011). 2014 was definitely one that got away for donegal.
Influential individual in the sports history ;D
Why even ask that question. What a load of shite
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub
51mins...McLoone comes in late on Joe McMahon and strikes him on back of head with closed fist
55mins...After lengthy delay McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion
61 mins..McLoone is replaced
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
McBrearty made an immediate impact when he came on, it was a massive mistake not starting him over a complete novice like O'Connor who barely played at senior level again (admittedly after a torrid time with injuries).
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub
51mins...McLoone comes in late on Joe McMahon and strikes him on back of head with closed fist
55mins...After lengthy delay McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion
61 mins..McLoone is replaced
First, McLoone should have got the line, no question. What use would it have been to McGuinness to have Donegal down to 14 men for the last 20 minutes, and then Leo gone for the following games, possibly at that point including an Ulster Final?
And what does the quick substitution prove?
Leo wasn't a thug. He was arguably ahead of Michael Murphy the previous year as the most influential player on the U-21 that ended up losing that final against Dublin. He's been an excellent, if unsung, player for Donegal all through the decade just gone, a strong lad ideally suited to carrying the ball on the break and taking a score, including quite a few goals. He wasn't some hatchet man to be sent on by the manager when an opposition player needed "sorting out".
The lad was in tears after the game. I've always assumed he was upset at having knocked McMahon cold and, I'm sure, taking (deserved) abuse from the Tyrone players for it. That makes far more sense, that his head was gone and that's why he was taken off, than any conspiracy about being sent on to take out a player.
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
McBrearty made an immediate impact when he came on, it was a massive mistake not starting him over a complete novice like O'Connor who barely played at senior level again (admittedly after a torrid time with injuries).
He had scored a goal earlier in the Championship and was inches away from scoring another in the All-Ireland if I remember correctly. McBrearty should have started alright though.
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
I mute the tv when I see his boring ass come on .
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub
51mins...McLoone comes in late on Joe McMahon and strikes him on back of head with closed fist
55mins...After lengthy delay McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion
61 mins..McLoone is replaced
First, McLoone should have got the line, no question. What use would it have been to McGuinness to have Donegal down to 14 men for the last 20 minutes, and then Leo gone for the following games, possibly at that point including an Ulster Final?
And what does the quick substitution prove?
Leo wasn't a thug. He was arguably ahead of Michael Murphy the previous year as the most influential player on the U-21 that ended up losing that final against Dublin. He's been an excellent, if unsung, player for Donegal all through the decade just gone, a strong lad ideally suited to carrying the ball on the break and taking a score, including quite a few goals. He wasn't some hatchet man to be sent on by the manager when an opposition player needed "sorting out".
The lad was in tears after the game. I've always assumed he was upset at having knocked McMahon cold and, I'm sure, taking (deserved) abuse from the Tyrone players for it. That makes far more sense, that his head was gone and that's why he was taken off, than any conspiracy about being sent on to take out a player.
He certainly took the opportunity when it arose. Don't think he would even have needed any guidance on what to do. Hatchet man? Well let's say if there was a late hit on - he would choose it. Club or County.
Great feat to lead Donegal to that All-Ireland in 2012. Before Jim arrived Armagh knocked them out of the championship with 9 points to spare and in 2009 Antrim beat them in Ulster in Ballybofey.
Not winning the 2014 All-Ireland has to be a big regret, it was there to be won after the win against Dublin. Donegal haven't reached All Ireland semi final since.
Quote from: restorepride on January 15, 2021, 10:57:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 15, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 15, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Sent one of his own players out to injure an opponent then goes on about duty of care when his own get a bit of treatment, he fully believed his own hype there for a bit, criminal not to start Paddy McBrearty in the AIF v Kerry
I presume this is about Leo McLoone hitting Joe McMahon in 2011?
If so, where's the evidence McLoone (at the time a young lad who was distraught after the game) was sent on to do that by McGuinness?
As for McBrearty, he was doing well off the bench, including in the Ulster final and the semi against the Dubs. Maybe he should have been starting, but young O'Connor was doing well too with his running. Anyway, Paddy wasn't why we lost that final. Paul Geaney reacting quicker to a deflected point attempt, Durkan slipping on a kick-out, each resulting in a goal, was the difference in a very tight, cagey match.
49mins...Leo McLoone comes on as a sub
51mins...McLoone comes in late on Joe McMahon and strikes him on back of head with closed fist
55mins...After lengthy delay McMahon leaves the pitch with concussion
61 mins..McLoone is replaced
First, McLoone should have got the line, no question. What use would it have been to McGuinness to have Donegal down to 14 men for the last 20 minutes, and then Leo gone for the following games, possibly at that point including an Ulster Final?
And what does the quick substitution prove?
Leo wasn't a thug. He was arguably ahead of Michael Murphy the previous year as the most influential player on the U-21 that ended up losing that final against Dublin. He's been an excellent, if unsung, player for Donegal all through the decade just gone, a strong lad ideally suited to carrying the ball on the break and taking a score, including quite a few goals. He wasn't some hatchet man to be sent on by the manager when an opposition player needed "sorting out".
The lad was in tears after the game. I've always assumed he was upset at having knocked McMahon cold and, I'm sure, taking (deserved) abuse from the Tyrone players for it. That makes far more sense, that his head was gone and that's why he was taken off, than any conspiracy about being sent on to take out a player.
He certainly took the opportunity when it arose. Don't think he would even have needed any guidance on what to do. Hatchet man? Well let's say if there was a late hit on - he would choose it. Club or County.
A thread about Jimmy gets turned into yet another whataboutusTyrone, we well remember exactly how we were oppressed in some game some 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
Don't feed the persecution, it's a bottomless pit.
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Great feat to lead Donegal to that All-Ireland in 2012. Before Jim arrived Armagh knocked them out of the championship with 9 points to spare and in 2009 Antrim beat them in Ulster in Ballybofey.
Not winning the 2014 All-Ireland has to be a big regret, it was there to be won after the win against Dublin. Donegal haven't reached All Ireland semi final since.
A real pity they couldn't finish the job.
After that the shutters came down.
https://youtu.be/71ZHVmSuBJM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Is this sarcasm?
I think what McGuinness did was nothing short of remarkable. He turned a bunch of party boys into champions in the space of two years.
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Is this sarcasm?
I think what McGuinness did was nothing short of remarkable. He turned a bunch of party boys into champions in the space of two years.
And they fell off of the wagon just as quick! To be fair he inherited an old team. And the commitment he asked was not sustainable long term.
The problem for mcguinness and peoples memories is that a lot of people just remember the dirge of the Dublin game in 2011 (to be fair it must be one of the worst county games ever at that level) but some of the football Donegal played in 2012 and 2014 under him was fantastic. The speed they counter attacked at was unreal. I wasn't getting to many games round that time but saw them play I think Kerry is 2012 and the speed was unbelievable.
I honestly think he cranked up the level of professionalism (well maybe dedication) needed to get to the top level and then Dublin cranked it up even more. I believe he is part of the reason for the beast that is Dublin.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
It's less cynical now among the top teams like Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Even Donegal are nowhere near as cynical under bonner. I have a feeling Tyrone will lose a fair bit of their cynicism and gamesmanship now Harte is away. Hope so anyway.
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 04:50:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
It's less cynical now among the top teams like Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Even Donegal are nowhere near as cynical under bonner. I have a feeling Tyrone will lose a fair bit of their cynicism and gamesmanship now Harte is away. Hope so anyway.
It's asinine to say there's any top team outside of Dublin. Have the past 6 years not proven so?
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Lol... and a goalkeeper taking their frees!!! You need to try harder Angelo!
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Yet you were saying last week that young Canavan is too "slight" and doesn't have the size that you are bemoaning Derry for having now. More contradictions. And the past 10 years under harte, tyrone have done anything but be inventive and show attacking flair, and when they do dare to show it, its is trained out of them to conform to a methodical defensive snoozefest, so i don't think
you are a person who knows what they're talking about when one mentions attacking football.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 04:40:10 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Yet you were saying last week that young Canavan is too "slight" and doesn't have the size that you are bemoaning Derry for having now. More contradictions. And the past 10 years under harte, tyrone have done anything but be inventive and show attacking flair, and when they do dare to show it, its is trained out of them to conform to a methodical defensive snoozefest, so i don't think you are a person who knows what they're talking about when one mentions attacking football.
You seem to have a major issue with the truth.
I said nothing of the like, I said that we need to be careful with Canavan who is a young lad, with a slight frame just out of u20s and has lots of bulking up to do for senior football yet.
Canavan is young, small and has plenty of time on his side to develop physically. He has lots of competition this year and has already picked up a number of injuries in his young career. He has been managed very carefully so far at club and underage level so I hope we continue to do so rather than flog him like you are stating.
Thankfully we haven't had dinosaurs like you managing him yet.
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2021, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Lol... and a goalkeeper taking their frees!!! You need to try harder Angelo!
That's just a lie. We've had Harte, McShane and McCurry over our frees in the past two seasons. McKenna took a few against Donegal too.
Like a lot of other counties, goalkeepers take the long range frees. Your beloved Dublin has Cluxton on frees for a number of years.
Classis Lenny though, can't help but contradict himself in order to fuel his bitterness.
To reaffirm my earlier point, Derry wouldn't know good attacking play if it jumped up and bit them on their arse.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 04:40:10 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Yet you were saying last week that young Canavan is too "slight" and doesn't have the size that you are bemoaning Derry for having now. More contradictions. And the past 10 years under harte, tyrone have done anything but be inventive and show attacking flair, and when they do dare to show it, its is trained out of them to conform to a methodical defensive snoozefest, so i don't think you are a person who knows what they're talking about when one mentions attacking football.
You seem to have a major issue with the truth.
I said nothing of the like, I said that we need to be careful with Canavan who is a young lad, with a slight frame just out of u20s and has lots of bulking up to do for senior football yet.
Canavan is young, small and has plenty of time on his side to develop physically. He has lots of competition this year and has already picked up a number of injuries in his young career. He has been managed very carefully so far at club and underage level so I hope we continue to do so rather than flog him like you are stating.
Thankfully we haven't had dinosaurs like you managing him yet.
Calling it the truth doesn't make it so.
You seem to have an issue with me pointing out your hypocritical remarks.
I see you ignored the second part of my post, not surprised.
On the first part, as I said you yapped about a player not having this size you are slating derry for having. By your logic, it is a stick to beat another county with, but anything goes for Tyrone, a notorious defensive team over the last 10 years, and not an inventive team with attacking flair. Your jibes don't make sense, nor do they add up as being consistent when picked apart.
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why you're attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not able to talk on that.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in a debate is to bring you down to their level.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
I will repeat again that I have made no distinction between good and top class. You seem to be the only one doing that.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
I will repeat again that I have made no distinction between good and top class. You seem to be the only one doing that.
I suspect that you realised your first comment was ridiculous and back-peddled. Thought you were made of stronger stuff than that?
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
This isn't the debate but I'll go over one more time, hopefully you'll get it into your head this time.
I explained numerous times and you went round in circles like you're doing so again. No insults there either, I don't need to resort to that. I couldn't give a flying fk about Ronan o Neill or whoever else, I took you apart in that debate about why canavan doesn't need to be minded and left you to howl at the wind, I had no call to repeat myself anymore. I won't get into that again, but because you're out of your depth you feel to need to deflect and bring up a past irrelevant debate.
On this one, I pointed out your hypocrisy of you thinking you're I n a position to talk about attacking inventive football and a derry poster isn't (you're not, you're from tyrone, where the slightest idea of off-the-cuff football is frowned upon, and methodical defensive snoozefests are encouraged) and your jibe about them only producing players with size, when in actual fact you were yapping because canavan didn't have the "size". Hypocrisy. That's all I have to say on both debates, hope that's clear enough for you. If I posted in the vaccine and coronavirus threads I'd have a field day pointing out your nonsensical hypocrisy, but the other lads save me the hassle as they do a good job of making you look like an eejit there too.
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
I will repeat again that I have made no distinction between good and top class. You seem to be the only one doing that.
I suspect that you realised your first comment was ridiculous and back-peddled. Thought you were made of stronger stuff than that?
I'll once again state that I make no distinction between those two terms, you seem to be trying to do it on my behalf but you don't speak for me.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
This isn't the debate but I'll go over one more time, hopefully you'll get it into your head this time.
I explained numerous times and you went round in circles like you're doing so again. No insults there either, I don't need to resort to that. I couldn't give a flying fk about Ronan o Neill or whoever else, I took you apart in that debate about why canavan doesn't need to be minded and left you to howl at the wind, I had no call to repeat myself anymore. I won't get into that again, but because you're out of your depth you feel to need to deflect and bring up a past irrelevant debate.
On this one, I pointed out your hypocrisy of you thinking you're I n a position to talk about attacking inventive football and a derry poster isn't (you're not, you're from tyrone, where the slightest idea of off-the-cuff football is frowned upon, and methodical defensive snoozefests are encouraged) and your jibe about them only producing players with size, when in actual fact you were yapping because canavan didn't have the "size". Hypocrisy. That's all I have to say on both debates, hope that's clear enough for you. If I posted in the vaccine and coronavirus threads I'd have a field day pointing out your nonsensical hypocrisy, but the other lads save me the hassle as they do a good job of making you look like an eejit there too.
Glad to see you don't give a flying f**k about how ridiculous your argument is. Ronan O'Neill was a star minor forward who did his cruciate at a very early age in the Tyrone set up. He is a perfect example of why we need to be careful with Canavan but in your own words "you couldn't give a flying f**k". You don't give a flying f**k of the consequences of flogging a massive talent that could be a key player for us down the years. That was around the time you ran for the hills the last time and I'm glad to have taken this opportunity to expose your risible revisionism.
I'm just making the point that Lenny wouldn't know anything about attacking football as he is from Derry, they don't produce much in an attacking sense so it take some brass neck for a Derry man to criticise two neighbouring counties who have a tradition of producing top class GAA forwards for ruining attacking football in the GAA.
Lenny's identity is to spew bile about Tyrone football at every turn that he's forgotten Derry GAA has become the laughing stock of Ulster football.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Great feat to lead Donegal to that All-Ireland in 2012. Before Jim arrived Armagh knocked them out of the championship with 9 points to spare and in 2009 Antrim beat them in Ulster in Ballybofey.
Not winning the 2014 All-Ireland has to be a big regret, it was there to be won after the win against Dublin. Donegal haven't reached All Ireland semi final since.
One thing about mcguinness he was brilliant at self promotion. He had success basically with one group of players and from that went on to have a professional career in a different sport albeit short lived. It would be interesting to see if he could take a different group of players and get success. Harte was another who got success with one group of great players but when they moved on he never really got close again. It'll be interesting to see how Harte gets on with Louth.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
This isn't the debate but I'll go over one more time, hopefully you'll get it into your head this time.
I explained numerous times and you went round in circles like you're doing so again. No insults there either, I don't need to resort to that. I couldn't give a flying fk about Ronan o Neill or whoever else, I took you apart in that debate about why canavan doesn't need to be minded and left you to howl at the wind, I had no call to repeat myself anymore. I won't get into that again, but because you're out of your depth you feel to need to deflect and bring up a past irrelevant debate.
On this one, I pointed out your hypocrisy of you thinking you're I n a position to talk about attacking inventive football and a derry poster isn't (you're not, you're from tyrone, where the slightest idea of off-the-cuff football is frowned upon, and methodical defensive snoozefests are encouraged) and your jibe about them only producing players with size, when in actual fact you were yapping because canavan didn't have the "size". Hypocrisy. That's all I have to say on both debates, hope that's clear enough for you. If I posted in the vaccine and coronavirus threads I'd have a field day pointing out your nonsensical hypocrisy, but the other lads save me the hassle as they do a good job of making you look like an eejit there too.
Glad to see you don't give a flying f**k about how ridiculous your argument is. Ronan O'Neill was a star minor forward who did his cruciate at a very early age in the Tyrone set up. He is a perfect example of why we need to be careful with Canavan but in your own words "you couldn't give a flying f**k". You don't give a flying f**k of the consequences of flogging a massive talent that could be a key player for us down the years. That was around the time you ran for the hills the last time and I'm glad to have taken this opportunity to expose your risible revisionism.
I'm just making the point that Lenny wouldn't know anything about attacking football as he is from Derry, they don't produce much in an attacking sense so it take some brass neck for a Derry man to criticise two neighbouring counties who have a tradition of producing top class GAA forwards for ruining attacking football in the GAA.
Lenny's identity is to spew bile about Tyrone football at every turn that he's forgotten Derry GAA has become the laughing stock of Ulster football.
No, I don't give a flying f**k for the random stories or history lesson you want to tell me post after post because you're like a broken record, they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I quit while I was ahead and saved you from further embarrassment, because you're doing now what you did then, you should be thanking me. It is funny that when your nonsensical hypocrisy is spelt out for you, you resort to deflection, funnily enough about a debate where your hypocrisy was outed as well.
He has a point for what it's worth, as I've spelt out for you again, a tyrone man is in no position to talk on that matter, as the tyrone players wouldn't know inventive attacking football if it hit them up the bake.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
This isn't the debate but I'll go over one more time, hopefully you'll get it into your head this time.
I explained numerous times and you went round in circles like you're doing so again. No insults there either, I don't need to resort to that. I couldn't give a flying fk about Ronan o Neill or whoever else, I took you apart in that debate about why canavan doesn't need to be minded and left you to howl at the wind, I had no call to repeat myself anymore. I won't get into that again, but because you're out of your depth you feel to need to deflect and bring up a past irrelevant debate.
On this one, I pointed out your hypocrisy of you thinking you're I n a position to talk about attacking inventive football and a derry poster isn't (you're not, you're from tyrone, where the slightest idea of off-the-cuff football is frowned upon, and methodical defensive snoozefests are encouraged) and your jibe about them only producing players with size, when in actual fact you were yapping because canavan didn't have the "size". Hypocrisy. That's all I have to say on both debates, hope that's clear enough for you. If I posted in the vaccine and coronavirus threads I'd have a field day pointing out your nonsensical hypocrisy, but the other lads save me the hassle as they do a good job of making you look like an eejit there too.
Glad to see you don't give a flying f**k about how ridiculous your argument is. Ronan O'Neill was a star minor forward who did his cruciate at a very early age in the Tyrone set up. He is a perfect example of why we need to be careful with Canavan but in your own words "you couldn't give a flying f**k". You don't give a flying f**k of the consequences of flogging a massive talent that could be a key player for us down the years. That was around the time you ran for the hills the last time and I'm glad to have taken this opportunity to expose your risible revisionism.
I'm just making the point that Lenny wouldn't know anything about attacking football as he is from Derry, they don't produce much in an attacking sense so it take some brass neck for a Derry man to criticise two neighbouring counties who have a tradition of producing top class GAA forwards for ruining attacking football in the GAA.
Lenny's identity is to spew bile about Tyrone football at every turn that he's forgotten Derry GAA has become the laughing stock of Ulster football.
No, I don't give a flying f**k for the random stories or history lesson you want to tell me post after post because you're like a broken record, they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I quit while I was ahead and saved you from further embarrassment, because you're doing now what you did then, you should be thanking me. It is funny that when your nonsensical hypocrisy is spelt out for you, you resort to deflection, funnily enough about a debate where your hypocrisy was outed as well.
He has a point for what it's worth, as I've spelt out for you again, a tyrone man is in no position to talk on that matter, as the tyrone players wouldn't know inventive attacking football if it hit them up the bake.
They're not irrelevant, they are past examples of when we didn't handle young talents properly. You can label them irrelevant because they undermine your argument, precedent is a great teacher. Thankfully as we seem to have learned our lessons and both Tyrone and Errigal have been very careful when bringing Canavan into the team. We have not flogged him, we let him finish his time out with the u20s before bringing him into the team. It's important we continue to be careful with him and Canavan will be doing very well if he can hold down a regular place this year. He still has another solid year or two of S&C work to do for me.
Ah yes, you seem to have found a nice bedfellow with Lenny. Don't tell me you're actually not a Tyrone man? ;D ;D ;D ;D
You're actually another utterly obsessed Derryman who turns up on the Tyrone forums like an unwanted voyeur. Deary me, have you lads any shame?
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
You're living in fantasy land as you ran away when you were made a fool of on this the last time but nice to see you align yourself with the likes of Lenny here.
We do need to mind going Canavan. Ronan O'Neill is a classic example of what can happen an underage star forward who is moved up to senior level goo quick and not properly handled on a physical level.
I think it was at the mention of O'Neill that you took for the gills last time around.
I think it would be wiser for not to project your own contradictions onto me.
You were the fool. I left you howling at the moon after you randomly mistaken me for another poster and I jumped all over it and caught you out. It was comedy gold. Therefore I said good luck and spared you the chance of further embarrassment as I'd already explained my points thoroughly, as you get on like a broken record and regurgitate the same thing post after post. I see that still irks at you.
But anyway back to the point. This was about your contradictory remark regarding size, that you used to beat another county with. You have now changed the subject to refer to a previous debate (because you have been caught as being a hypocrite), in which I thoroughly explained why canavan doesn't need to be minded. But you have been caught out and are back to projecting about a previous topic that has no relevance here.
You also claim to speak from some sort of pedestal of inventive attacking football, your county doesn't do that, and that it has been trained out of them as I said. You ignored this but funnily enough. So that is another moot point on your part.
Not sure what you're on about o neill, and for the record I'm not from derry, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy yet again and your arguments that don't add up.
Thoroughly explained?
Some revisionism there, what happened was you got caught talking out of your arse and ran away when I gave you countless examples of young lads who came through in Tyrone in recent years, were flogged, picked up a few bad injuries and didn't make an impact at senior county level. I have repeatedly stated that we need to be careful with Canavan, we need to patient with him and mind him. We have McCurry, Bradley, Brennan and McAliskey in the panel there this year, all much further down the road of their physical development. When you ran away the last time you did so on the provision that you don't think we need to be careful with our expectations and how we use a young player. I pointed out how on his Championship debut he had to be withdrawn after shipping a heavy knock.
You seem to be of the opinion we should not show any due care to a young talent like Canavan, we should attempt to curb expectations after one Championship experience and how we should not have to earn his sport against the likes of McCurry, McAliskey, Bradley and Brennan when those 5 players are effectively fighting it out for 2 positions.
It was at that point you ran off.
What I said on Derry is that they produce big lads with little attacking ability.
If you look at the elite level forwards about now - O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, Clifford, McManus, Murphy, McShane etc - they all have a real physical presence and real attacking ability. Derry don't produce players with attacking talent, they just produce big physical players.
Lenny wouldn't really know much about attacking football so I'm a bit puzzled that he is talking about that.
Yes, throughly explained. I explained why canavan didn't need to be minded and made a fool out of you and left you to howl at the wind after you accused me of saying something I didn't. You have no ability to debate which is why you regurgitate the same thing every post, and because you are bringing up a debate I already held you to account over. This is why your attempting to deflect from the fact that you have been found out again in this debate with more hypocrisy about your supposed jibe about size of derry and attempting to speak from a position of knowledge about attacking football, whereas in actual fact you're from Tyrone, so you're not.
And now because you know you have been found out, you're doing it all again, going round in circles and bringing up past irrelevant points to mask the fact that you're out of your depth. And I find myself here again, like trying to talk to a child. So I'll probably have to bit you adieu again, because the only way idiots survive in an debate is to bring you down to their level.
More revisionism. You explained nothing. You ran away when you were found to be talking out of your arse.
Plenty of insults there but I have relayed to you why what you are stating is absurd and just like when you ran away the last time. You can't respond.
Ronan O'Neill suffered an ACL at the age of 19 and never delivered on his potential. We should be very careful in how we handle a talent like Canavan. You have some brass neck to say I'm out of my depth when you ran for the hills last time around and still refuse to respond to the points I have outlined.
Your whole post there has absolutely nothing of subtstance, it's full of fantasy events that happened in your head. You ran away the last time after you couldn't tackle the points. Once again you have failed to tackle the points. We should be careful with Canavan, we should be very patient with him. His club have been extremely patient and careful with him so far and they should be credited with that because sometimes promising young players are flogged in the younger days. He's a 20 year old lad and we need to be mindful of that.
But I will repeat that we should be grateful that we don't have dinosaurs like you anywhere near Darragh Canavan at present.
This isn't the debate but I'll go over one more time, hopefully you'll get it into your head this time.
I explained numerous times and you went round in circles like you're doing so again. No insults there either, I don't need to resort to that. I couldn't give a flying fk about Ronan o Neill or whoever else, I took you apart in that debate about why canavan doesn't need to be minded and left you to howl at the wind, I had no call to repeat myself anymore. I won't get into that again, but because you're out of your depth you feel to need to deflect and bring up a past irrelevant debate.
On this one, I pointed out your hypocrisy of you thinking you're I n a position to talk about attacking inventive football and a derry poster isn't (you're not, you're from tyrone, where the slightest idea of off-the-cuff football is frowned upon, and methodical defensive snoozefests are encouraged) and your jibe about them only producing players with size, when in actual fact you were yapping because canavan didn't have the "size". Hypocrisy. That's all I have to say on both debates, hope that's clear enough for you. If I posted in the vaccine and coronavirus threads I'd have a field day pointing out your nonsensical hypocrisy, but the other lads save me the hassle as they do a good job of making you look like an eejit there too.
Glad to see you don't give a flying f**k about how ridiculous your argument is. Ronan O'Neill was a star minor forward who did his cruciate at a very early age in the Tyrone set up. He is a perfect example of why we need to be careful with Canavan but in your own words "you couldn't give a flying f**k". You don't give a flying f**k of the consequences of flogging a massive talent that could be a key player for us down the years. That was around the time you ran for the hills the last time and I'm glad to have taken this opportunity to expose your risible revisionism.
I'm just making the point that Lenny wouldn't know anything about attacking football as he is from Derry, they don't produce much in an attacking sense so it take some brass neck for a Derry man to criticise two neighbouring counties who have a tradition of producing top class GAA forwards for ruining attacking football in the GAA.
Lenny's identity is to spew bile about Tyrone football at every turn that he's forgotten Derry GAA has become the laughing stock of Ulster football.
No, I don't give a flying f**k for the random stories or history lesson you want to tell me post after post because you're like a broken record, they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I quit while I was ahead and saved you from further embarrassment, because you're doing now what you did then, you should be thanking me. It is funny that when your nonsensical hypocrisy is spelt out for you, you resort to deflection, funnily enough about a debate where your hypocrisy was outed as well.
He has a point for what it's worth, as I've spelt out for you again, a tyrone man is in no position to talk on that matter, as the tyrone players wouldn't know inventive attacking football if it hit them up the bake.
They're not irrelevant, they are past examples of when we didn't handle young talents properly. You can label them irrelevant because they undermine your argument, precedent is a great teacher. Thankfully as we seem to have learned our lessons and both Tyrone and Errigal have been very careful when bringing Canavan into the team. We have not flogged him, we let him finish his time out with the u20s before bringing him into the team. It's important we continue to be careful with him and Canavan will be doing very well if he can hold down a regular place this year. He still has another solid year or two of S&C work to do for me.
Ah yes, you seem to have found a nice bedfellow with Lenny. Don't tell me you're actually not a Tyrone man? ;D ;D ;D ;D
You're actually another utterly obsessed Derryman who turns up on the Tyrone forums like an unwanted voyeur. Deary me, have you lads any shame?
They don't undermine my argument. A player can get a serious injury at any time and at any age. Just because one player got an injury at a young age and didn't fulfill his potential is neither here nor there. One example doesn't mean that's the norm, so it is irrelevant. But that doesn't suit your skewed agenda does it. He doesn't need to be minded, I'm not getting into that again.
Make your mind up, am I a tyrone man or a derry man. Serious clutching at straws being done. Whether I'm a tyrone man or not, your hypocrisy still needed to be outed.
If you actually paid attention you will find that I have already said that for the record I'm not from derry, but he still had a point nonetheless.
A Derry voyeur who is more active on the Tyrone forums than his own county.
You lads are utterly obsessed.
More deflection. Just as I thought.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
We have been through it before, and I'm glad you're finally starting to take heed, slowly but surely we'll get it into that skull of yours eventually.
I have highlighted your contradictions and hypocrisy on two separate debates today and one a few weeks ago. You claimed I was another poster and were made to look like an absolute fool also, so I understand you're still a bit touchy about it but you should be thanking me for leaving you to howl at the moon and save you from further embarrassment.
Nope, just holding your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, I don't care that you don't like it.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
We have been through it before, and I'm glad you're finally starting to take heed, slowly but surely we'll get it into that skull of yours eventually.
I have highlighted your contradictions and hypocrisy on two separate debates today and one a few weeks ago. You claimed I was another poster and were made to look like an absolute fool also, so I understand you're still a bit touchy about it but you should be thanking me for leaving you to howl at the moon and save you from further embarrassment.
Nope, just holding your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, I don't care that you don't like it.
More fantasy and revisionism for you.
You ran away after be found to be talking out of your arse the first time. Then I find out you are some oddball you goes around lurking on other county forums, someone who is more interested in other counties than his own.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
We have been through it before, and I'm glad you're finally starting to take heed, slowly but surely we'll get it into that skull of yours eventually.
I have highlighted your contradictions and hypocrisy on two separate debates today and one a few weeks ago. You claimed I was another poster and were made to look like an absolute fool also, so I understand you're still a bit touchy about it but you should be thanking me for leaving you to howl at the moon and save you from further embarrassment.
Nope, just holding your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, I don't care that you don't like it.
More fantasy and revisionism for you.
You ran away after be found to be talking out of your arse the first time. Then I find out you are some oddball you goes around lurking on other county forums, someone who is more interested in other counties than his own.
Not fantasy, those are the facts of the matter.
You ran away from the debates today and started speculating about my county allegiance because your arguments didn't hold water and your hypocrisy was outed, and you didn't like it. And then resorted to deflection tactics because you were being picked apart. You're predictable as well as incapable.
I can see you're still hurting about me making a dick out of you the first time. It's ok Angela.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:37:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
I will repeat again that I have made no distinction between good and top class. You seem to be the only one doing that.
I suspect that you realised your first comment was ridiculous and back-peddled. Thought you were made of stronger stuff than that?
I'll once again state that I make no distinction between those two terms, you seem to be trying to do it on my behalf but you don't speak for me.
Speak for you?! Jaysus, no, never! Where did that come from? Anyhow you have clarified that, for you, there is no distinction. A good player = a top class player, in your world. Thanks for that.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
We have been through it before, and I'm glad you're finally starting to take heed, slowly but surely we'll get it into that skull of yours eventually.
I have highlighted your contradictions and hypocrisy on two separate debates today and one a few weeks ago. You claimed I was another poster and were made to look like an absolute fool also, so I understand you're still a bit touchy about it but you should be thanking me for leaving you to howl at the moon and save you from further embarrassment.
Nope, just holding your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, I don't care that you don't like it.
More fantasy and revisionism for you.
You ran away after be found to be talking out of your arse the first time. Then I find out you are some oddball you goes around lurking on other county forums, someone who is more interested in other counties than his own.
Not fantasy, those are the facts of the matter.
You ran away from the debates today and started speculating about my county allegiance because your arguments didn't hold water and your hypocrisy was outed, and you didn't like it. And then resorted to deflection tactics because you were being picked apart. You're predictable as well as incapable.
I can see you're still hurting about me making a dick out of you the first time. It's ok Angela.
All you have repeated in this thread is fantasy. I have actually spoken logically, with examples of precedent (O'Neill), references to how Canavan has been handled to date with Errigal and Tyrone and how he has been dealt with carefully and must continue to be so.
In contrast you have spoken in vague and fantasist terms about things that never happened. You're all bluster but it's ok we know you are mortified about being exposed as a voyeur of other counties while too embarrassed to disclose your own.
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:37:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 01:10:41 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 17, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
You now have replaced 'good forwards' with 'top class forwards' - which is it?
Well?
You're the one making the distinction.
No - you wrote it, you replaced it and therefore made the distinction.
I will repeat again that I have made no distinction between good and top class. You seem to be the only one doing that.
I suspect that you realised your first comment was ridiculous and back-peddled. Thought you were made of stronger stuff than that?
I'll once again state that I make no distinction between those two terms, you seem to be trying to do it on my behalf but you don't speak for me.
Speak for you?! Jaysus, no, never! Where did that come from? Anyhow you have clarified that, for you, there is no distinction. A good player = a top class player, in your world. Thanks for that.
No bother.
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:52:32 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 17, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
More deflection. Just as I thought.
It's actually true. What sort of oddball go around posting in other county forums?
Derry voyeurs, utterly obsessed by everything and anything to do with Tyrone.
Yourself, Lenny and Screen need to get some collective therapy sessions to remove your voyeuristic tendencies.
It actually isn't, and you know it.
For the third time now, what part of "I'm not a derry man" is difficult to understand. This whole charade is another form of deflection after being picked apart yet again. Truth hurts I suppose.
If you're not a Derryman then why are you voyeuring around the Tyrone forums? Don't you have a county to follow yourself?
The "I'm not a Derryman" excuse doesn't really wash with me.
More deflection. I note you have now stopped talking about the previous canavan debate and the current debate of this morning, and you've now resorted to speculating about my county allegiance because I agreed with something you didn't like. It just gets better and the hole you're digging for yourself just gets deeper. I'll take another W on this one again thanks ;D while you howl into the wind again frantically wondering what county I'm from. Too easy.
And fwiw, i post on the tyrone forums to hold your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, and you clearly don't like it.
We've been true this before. Nothng I have said is contradictory, you ran away the last time you were made a fool out of. You seem to post on forums of other counties because you seem to be more obsessed with the fortunes of other counties than your own. It's a very weird type of obsession and I can see you're more than a little embarrassed about it.
We have been through it before, and I'm glad you're finally starting to take heed, slowly but surely we'll get it into that skull of yours eventually.
I have highlighted your contradictions and hypocrisy on two separate debates today and one a few weeks ago. You claimed I was another poster and were made to look like an absolute fool also, so I understand you're still a bit touchy about it but you should be thanking me for leaving you to howl at the moon and save you from further embarrassment.
Nope, just holding your nonsensical hypocrisy to account, I don't care that you don't like it.
More fantasy and revisionism for you.
You ran away after be found to be talking out of your arse the first time. Then I find out you are some oddball you goes around lurking on other county forums, someone who is more interested in other counties than his own.
Not fantasy, those are the facts of the matter.
You ran away from the debates today and started speculating about my county allegiance because your arguments didn't hold water and your hypocrisy was outed, and you didn't like it. And then resorted to deflection tactics because you were being picked apart. You're predictable as well as incapable.
I can see you're still hurting about me making a dick out of you the first time. It's ok Angela.
All you have repeated in this thread is fantasy. I have actually spoken logically, with examples of precedent (O'Neill), references to how Canavan has been handled to date with Errigal and Tyrone and how he has been dealt with carefully and must continue to be so.
In contrast you have spoken in vague and fantasist terms about things that never happened. You're all bluster but it's ok we know you are mortified about being exposed as a voyeur of other counties while too embarrassed to disclose your own.
No fantasy, not my fault you don't like the truth.
You haven't spoken logically, you've spoken with hypocrisy.
I've already said one example is irrelevant and isn't the norm, but you continue to spew it to suit your own agenda, and how he doesn't need to be minded.
Vague haha I can't be any clearer, I'm purposefully writing in short sentences now hoping that it will get into your thick skull, and also because I've already explained myself ten times.
The only embarrassment here is yours. You've been outed and made fool out of.
My county is neither here nor there, you don't like it because you've been held to account.
Doses
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2021, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 16, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Yes, the game is so much more exciting now. Never been in a more healthy state.
Lenny is from Derry, they produce big agricultural footballers there so I'm not sure on why Lenny thinks he should be a spokesperson for what good attacking football should be. Derry have produced two good forwards in the past 30+ years and one of them was a Tyrone man.
Is that 35 years or less than that?
I'm just using 30+ years as a general term. Their AI winning team did not have any top class forwards. Some outstanding defenders and the best midfielder in the game at the time but a really ordinary forward line. Paddy Bradley and Muldoon were the only top level forwards Derry have produced in that time so I don't think Lenny is a person who knows what he is talking about when he mentions attacking football.
Derry have always been a team with a focus on size and defence unlike their neighbours Tyrone who have always produced players with attacking flair and inventive play.
Lol... and a goalkeeper taking their frees!!! You need to try harder Angelo!
That's just a lie. We've had Harte, McShane and McCurry over our frees in the past two seasons. McKenna took a few against Donegal too.
Like a lot of other counties, goalkeepers take the long range frees. Your beloved Dublin has Cluxton on frees for a number of years.
Classis Lenny though, can't help but contradict himself in order to fuel his bitterness.
To reaffirm my earlier point, Derry wouldn't know good attacking play if it jumped up and bit them on their arse.
You've had more than that I'm pretty sure Brennan and Ronan O'Neill have hit frees as well recently... for a team that has so much attacking prowess you would think they could settle on one decent player to kick the ball over the bar for them!
If Tyrone had a Cillian O'Connor in the team they might be a threat!
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Is this sarcasm?
I think what McGuinness did was nothing short of remarkable. He turned a bunch of party boys into champions in the space of two years.
I'm from Tyrone, have to agree. Like Paddy Heaney said in the documentary Jimmys Winning Matches, to paraphrase it was the most remarkable turn around he's seen in sports.
Donegal were a mess before, I think with the Kevin Cassidy Laochra Gael show recently it brought it back up again but what McGuinness did (with damn good players....) was absolutely unbelievable.
Someone pointed out McGuiness is a master of self promotion, that is also true. It's always the players take the pitch...
I think McGuinness changed the game for the good - Of course the tactics thing, look, you have to cut your cloth accordingly. I accept some cant' stand it, I suppose being from the North, McGuinness didn't do anything Harte or Kernan didn't do. Tactics evolve...but they are basically someone else's ideas with your own twist.
But what he did was give even the smallest clubs belief, if they got this system right....they could do great things. And we've seen examples over the past ten years or so, club teams buying into this way of playing and giving it a hell of a year. Isn't that what the GAA is about?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 18, 2021, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Is this sarcasm?
I think what McGuinness did was nothing short of remarkable. He turned a bunch of party boys into champions in the space of two years.
I'm from Tyrone, have to agree. Like Paddy Heaney said in the documentary Jimmys Winning Matches, to paraphrase it was the most remarkable turn around he's seen in sports.
Donegal were a mess before, I think with the Kevin Cassidy Laochra Gael show recently it brought it back up again but what McGuinness did (with damn good players....) was absolutely unbelievable.
Someone pointed out McGuiness is a master of self promotion, that is also true. It's always the players take the pitch...
I think McGuinness changed the game for the good - Of course the tactics thing, look, you have to cut your cloth accordingly. I accept some cant' stand it, I suppose being from the North, McGuinness didn't do anything Harte or Kernan didn't do. Tactics evolve...but they are basically someone else's ideas with your own twist.
But what he did was give even the smallest clubs belief, if they got this system right....they could do great things. And we've seen examples over the past ten years or so, club teams buying into this way of playing and giving it a hell of a year. Isn't that what the GAA is about?
All very fair points. I'll admit he has to be admired and respected for his achievements. The biggest problem is that the defensive tactics which he and harte successfully introduced have been copied far and wide and it's created some extremely dull football. If one team is naive and attacking and the other is counter attacking it can still be a cracking game. If both teams are defensive then it's a borefest. We're seeing a lot of that now even at all club levels.
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Quote from: lenny on January 18, 2021, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 18, 2021, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 16, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Jim and Harte will be remembered in 10/15 years time as the men who nearly destroyed football with their defensive crap. It's taken a great, skilful, resilient Dublin side to restore our faith in the beautiful game. Hopefully Kerry will return to their more attacking flair game and will provide with another great rivalry. I do think Tyrone will be a lot more attacking without Harte and they have some very good forwards also.
Is this sarcasm?
I think what McGuinness did was nothing short of remarkable. He turned a bunch of party boys into champions in the space of two years.
I'm from Tyrone, have to agree. Like Paddy Heaney said in the documentary Jimmys Winning Matches, to paraphrase it was the most remarkable turn around he's seen in sports.
Donegal were a mess before, I think with the Kevin Cassidy Laochra Gael show recently it brought it back up again but what McGuinness did (with damn good players....) was absolutely unbelievable.
Someone pointed out McGuiness is a master of self promotion, that is also true. It's always the players take the pitch...
I think McGuinness changed the game for the good - Of course the tactics thing, look, you have to cut your cloth accordingly. I accept some cant' stand it, I suppose being from the North, McGuinness didn't do anything Harte or Kernan didn't do. Tactics evolve...but they are basically someone else's ideas with your own twist.
But what he did was give even the smallest clubs belief, if they got this system right....they could do great things. And we've seen examples over the past ten years or so, club teams buying into this way of playing and giving it a hell of a year. Isn't that what the GAA is about?
All very fair points. I'll admit he has to be admired and respected for his achievements. The biggest problem is that the defensive tactics which he and harte successfully introduced have been copied far and wide and it's created some extremely dull football. If one team is naive and attacking and the other is counter attacking it can still be a cracking game. If both teams are defensive then it's a borefest. We're seeing a lot of that now even at all club levels.
It's not McGuinness fault that other counties and clubs have tried to ape his tactics unsuccessfully. Every team should cut their cloth accordingly and Jim McGuinness should not be held responsible for what other counties do.
Quote from: shawshank on January 18, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.
Quote from: lenny on January 18, 2021, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: shawshank on January 18, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.
Not sure what club you are from Lenny. But I'm assuming its Magherafelt by the talk of negative tactics and Final loss?
I mean look Magherafelt are a big club, they probably could go another way if they wanted - I played against that team about 2 or 3 years ago in a friendly, they have damn good players. I was more thinking the smaller clubs, with the smaller picks when I meant about giving them a blue print for success and giving them a way to compete.
I don't agree with this type of tactic being brought into youth games, maybe naive of me, but at that age - send them out to win, sure. But if they lose, it's not the be all and end all. The key is to keep them happy and into the game. Come minor and up, it's a bit more serious, tactics are part of the learning process when you get to the proper age. I've seen a few u14 and u16 games myself over the past years....two and three sweepers. Absolutely brutal.
I agree with Angelo, it's not his fault if lazy managers basically try and clone his tactics poorly and send men out to basically get behind the ball when we don't have it. Any eejit can make a living off clubs doing that (many do!). It's more the complete turn around in those players that McGuinness lit the fire under to get them to buy completely into what they were going to be about. It was an outstanding feat.
Quote from: lenny on January 18, 2021, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: shawshank on January 18, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.
That's got nothing to do with Jim McGuinness though. He did things his way, was very successful at it and brought Donegal to levels nobody thought ever possible just a few years prior. I thought McConville put it fairly well about how Donegal would have been viewed within Ulster prior to McGuinness taking over.
The issue for you seems to be your club appointing some poor Jim McGuinness tribute act. That's not Jim McGuinness fault, he was an innovative manager who cut his cloth accordingly. I was surprised there wasn't a heave against Bonner in Donegal to look at trying to get McGuinness back. Murphy might not have that much longer at the top so I think McGuinness might fancy another go in the next few years. I'd be very interested to see how he'd go about things this time, I have a feeling we'd see something different again from him.
I think Jim Mc Guinness forced a lot of teams - county and club - to give a much higher consideration of tactics in Gaelic football.
It was probably going that way anyway but he gave it a huge push on.
Even Dublin will often have 15 in their own half at various times in any game.
How other teams choose to employ the tactics is down to each individual team and manager - but I think there is too much focus on Mc Guinness tactics for men behind the ball rather than the other part which was attacking at speed and attacking in pods.
His articles in the Irish Times about tactics are very interesting.
Eghttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-1.4439920
"The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them."
Mc Guinness brought the cult of full time manager to the fore too! This Was his main job alongside couple of other staff like maxi Curran who was employed by county board at time but was basically full time senior . This helped fast track the team and provide a professional service . Can't be forgotten about either as I'm sure John joe before him had his own job to do
Just goes to show the vaule of fine margins and a little luck going your way
Tyrone kicked themselves out of it in the first half of that 2011 Clones match, lost Joe McMahon to a very dubious piece of 'tackling' , Kevin Hughes was lost to a red card and a mistake cost them a goal....
I think this gave the players enough belife to stick wiht McGuinness and his methods which them led to...2014, where:
Dublin could and should have had Donegal dead and buried in the first 15-20 minutes , with the amount of chances they had ...but wayward finishing and some uncharacteristic Dublin mistakes let Donegal back into it
Now every successful County can prob point back to a few turning points, or a few breaks of the ball thier way that helped them gain confidence etc .....and fair play to DnG and Jim for capitalising on them
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2021, 05:13:00 PM
His articles in the Irish Times about tactics are very interesting.
Eghttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-1.4439920
"The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them."
Very true, Dublin are an extremely dull and boring team to watch which makes all the fanfare about the way they play the game ridiculous. I said it months back, when was the last time you saw a Dublin player take on a high risk shot? It doesn't happen, it's all about recycling the ball until you have a high percentage chance. They are so far ahead of the rest athletically and physically that they will wear teams down physically.
Quote from: the goal was on on January 18, 2021, 07:48:10 PM
Mc Guinness brought the cult of full time manager to the fore too! This Was his main job alongside couple of other staff like maxi Curran who was employed by county board at time but was basically full time senior . This helped fast track the team and provide a professional service . Can't be forgotten about either as I'm sure John joe before him had his own job to do
Plenty of GAA managers have done or did similar. Lot's of retired teachers and publicans and that have been over county teams in the past.
Quote from: MC on January 18, 2021, 01:13:51 PM
I think Jim Mc Guinness forced a lot of teams - county and club - to give a much higher consideration of tactics in Gaelic football.
It was probably going that way anyway but he gave it a huge push on.
Even Dublin will often have 15 in their own half at various times in any game.
How other teams choose to employ the tactics is down to each individual team and manager - but I think there is too much focus on Mc Guinness tactics for men behind the ball rather than the other part which was attacking at speed and attacking in pods.
Dublin (and other top counties) were doing this before Jim McGuinness beat them.
Agree completely on second point. 'Men behind the ball' tends to be lazy analysis from people who haven't been involved in the game for a while in my experience. That alone is a small and relatively simple part of a gameplan that any number of club managers have been employing for years.
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 18, 2021, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: shawshank on January 18, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.
That's got nothing to do with Jim McGuinness though. He did things his way, was very successful at it and brought Donegal to levels nobody thought ever possible just a few years prior. I thought McConville put it fairly well about how Donegal would have been viewed within Ulster prior to McGuinness taking over.
The issue for you seems to be your club appointing some poor Jim McGuinness tribute act. That's not Jim McGuinness fault, he was an innovative manager who cut his cloth accordingly. I was surprised there wasn't a heave against Bonner in Donegal to look at trying to get McGuinness back. Murphy might not have that much longer at the top so I think McGuinness might fancy another go in the next few years. I'd be very interested to see how he'd go about things this time, I have a feeling we'd see something different again from him.
Hadn't really thought about that. Would Jim want to come back though, with a bit less top-class material to work with, especially as Murphy is now into his thirties?
There's no Karl Laceys or Frank McGlynns or Kevin Cassidys or Neil Gallaghers or peak McGees in the Donegal squad.
It would be interesting to see how he would shape things though.
And I agree, Bonner probably has got off lightly, living off the two Ulsters despite the subsequent failures, but then the Ulster final shock did come amidst all the COVID stuff. Everything kind of moved on very quickly, especially with a relatively small off-season. He'll be under pressure this year though, which will not be easy with Tyrone on the way back and Cavan going for a repeat.
Quote from: J70 on January 19, 2021, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 18, 2021, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: shawshank on January 18, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.
However agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.
Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.
That's got nothing to do with Jim McGuinness though. He did things his way, was very successful at it and brought Donegal to levels nobody thought ever possible just a few years prior. I thought McConville put it fairly well about how Donegal would have been viewed within Ulster prior to McGuinness taking over.
The issue for you seems to be your club appointing some poor Jim McGuinness tribute act. That's not Jim McGuinness fault, he was an innovative manager who cut his cloth accordingly. I was surprised there wasn't a heave against Bonner in Donegal to look at trying to get McGuinness back. Murphy might not have that much longer at the top so I think McGuinness might fancy another go in the next few years. I'd be very interested to see how he'd go about things this time, I have a feeling we'd see something different again from him.
There's no Karl Laceys or Frank McGlynns or Kevin Cassidys or Neil Gallaghers or peak McGees in the Donegal squad.
There is still Murphy there.
There's Ryan McHugh, Ban Gallagher, MacNiallais back, McBrearty, H McFadden all in their prime (question marks over McBrearty now granted) - good young talent like J Brennan, Mogan, O'Donnell, J McGee Langan, Gallen etc.
They have loads of potential there. Only really McGee, McGrath (who is probably not a starter anymore) and Murphy are the wrong side of 30.
I also think the curent Donegal side has much more in depth too than what McGuinness had where it was the likes of Walsh and Brick Molloy who he had to call from the bench whereas now they have a good core of 22/23 really good intercounty players.
Donegal are a comfortable top 5 side in the country right now. I'd be very interested to see what he could bring to this group of players.
I don't think Jimmy stuck at it long enough to leave a defining legacy. Definitely he had an immediate and outstanding influence on Donegal, but imo would have had to stay on and adjust his Donegal to meet the challenge of teams that had successfully adjusted to his game plan. Despite their travails, Donegal had the ingredients of a very good team when he took over.
As it stands now he's a one trick pony who has settled for a life being a hurler on the ditch. Legacy should be a rare tribute such as a manager like Mickey Harte who earned merit by travelling the hardest of roads and never giving up, leaving an outstanding inspirational contribution to GAA, culminating in the miracle in 2008, turning dull Tyrone water into vintage wine.
I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 07:29:02 AM
I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)
Exactly, McGuinness was very clear when he wanted the Donegal job it was an Olympic cycle. That's why they didn't want anything to do with him at the start they didn't understand what the hell he was on about!
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 07:29:02 AM
I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)
Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 07:29:02 AM
I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)
Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.
Yeh I reckon he'll find a way to go even more defensive, 16 men behind the ball, get the ref involved some way
Quote from: tiempo on January 20, 2021, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 07:29:02 AM
I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)
Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.
Yeh I reckon he'll find a way to go even more defensive, 16 men behind the ball, get the ref involved some way
That's the type of lazy analysis aimed at McGuinness which is completely unfair
As it stands now Jimmy is a one trick pony, if he returns to the game to do something more then that status can change. He hasn't put in the shift I think he could have led that Donegal squad to another 2 or 3 AI finals.
Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 11:14:10 AM
As it stands now Jimmy is a one trick pony, if he returns to the game to do something more then that status can change. He hasn't put in the shift I think he could have led that Donegal squad to another 2 or 3 AI finals.
There was a short window with that Donegal team though. I think a lot of those lads were done after 2014. Big players for Donegal like McFadden, Lacey, Kavanagh, Toye, E McGee, Gallagher were all the wrong side of 30 and Donegal under McGuinness had very, very little in terms of quality in depth. McGuinness got that job too late really. If he had taken that Donegal team on 3 or 4 years earlier then they certainly had 2 or 3 All Irelands in them.
Rory Gallagher really got handed a poisoned chalice when he took on that job, the transition phase where all those men were coming to their natural conclusion and youngsters who needed a few more years to show their worth.
Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 11:14:10 AM
As it stands now Jimmy is a one trick pony, if he returns to the game to do something more then that status can change. He hasn't put in the shift I think he could have led that Donegal squad to another 2 or 3 AI finals.
He certainly is a one-trick pony. Still ... an AI championship is a pretty impressive one trick to have.
Unless he gets back into management, he will be defined as the manager who introduced the ultra defensive counter attacking tactics that plagues our game today.
Essentially, he set out to win an All Ireland, achieved that and turned a mediocre team into consistent contenders for the past decade, so I would say his legacy outreaches his tenure as manager.
But again, it would be interesting to see if he can repeat his turnaround with Donegal elsewhere. In a sense similar to Harte now at Louth, it will be interesting to see how a top manager works out on a different playing field, different backing, different players etc.
There were some great footballers in that team too though. I wouldn't say they were a mediocre - they were an underachieving one. Arguably they did overachieve winning the AI but they should have had two and tbh I thought McGuinness failed on his tactics that day.
Murphy and Lacey would grace any team and there were some other great footballers in there too.
He's some one trick pony alright.
1 Donegal SFC
1 u21 Ulster championship
1 u21 All Ireland final
3 USFC
1 All Ireland
1 All Ireland final
It was a good trick but he didn't stick it out with Donegal and he could have achieved much with that exceptional bunch of players he helped to mould. There is no way he stands alongside managers like Harte or Boylan, at least not yet
I don't think anyone would seriously argue that one with you Main Street.
But I would ask, would Donegal of 2012 give it to any of Harte or Boylans teams at a similar peak? That's a different one.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
I don't think anyone would seriously argue that one with you Main Street.
But I would ask, would Donegal of 2012 give it to any of Harte or Boylans teams at a similar peak? That's a different one.
Hard to know. Jim's training qas very intense so how many more years could he have kept it going?
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Was Lacey's injury not a hamstring that he was carrying anyway?
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Doyle didnt score in game. Was taken off and came back in extra time. McGuinness spoke in the media prior saying Donegal players were been targeted 🤣🤣🤣
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2021, 08:52:13 PM
Was Lacey's injury not a hamstring that he was carrying anyway?
No lacey was taken out. Changed the game
I am not sure you are correct there. He had a knee injury from what I can find on google.I don't recall him being taken out and don't remember any outcry about it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
I am not sure you are correct there. He had a knee injury from what I can find on google.I don't recall him being taken out and don't remember any outcry about it.
Lacey was taken out in the first half.
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
I am not sure you are correct there. He had a knee injury from what I can find on google.I don't recall him being taken out and don't remember any outcry about it.
Lacey was taken out in the first half.
Was in second half just after half time
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Doyle didnt score in game. Was taken off and came back in extra time. McGuinness spoke in the media prior saying Donegal players were been targeted 🤣🤣🤣
The collision between Hegarty and Doyle happened three seconds into the game. Doyle played the entire normal time and was reintroduced in extra time. He took two frees within three minutes of the collision.
"Taken out of the game" me arse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0)
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 10, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
I am not sure you are correct there. He had a knee injury from what I can find on google.I don't recall him being taken out and don't remember any outcry about it.
Lacey was taken out in the first half.
Was in second half just after half time
Possibly I vaguely recall that came but Lacey being deliberately taken out was something I remember from it as it swung the game. Lacey is probably the best defender of the past 20 years for me and his influence on that Donegal team was enormous.
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Doyle didnt score in game. Was taken off and came back in extra time. McGuinness spoke in the media prior saying Donegal players were been targeted 🤣🤣🤣
The collision between Hegarty and Doyle happened three seconds into the game. Doyle played the entire normal time and was reintroduced in extra time. He took two frees within three minutes of the collision.
"Taken out of the game" me arse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0)
Kicked both wide too which he kick in his sleep. Eoghan Flaherty took over the frees. Doyle got dead leg.
Quote from: reillycavan on February 11, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Doyle didnt score in game. Was taken off and came back in extra time. McGuinness spoke in the media prior saying Donegal players were been targeted 🤣🤣🤣
The collision between Hegarty and Doyle happened three seconds into the game. Doyle played the entire normal time and was reintroduced in extra time. He took two frees within three minutes of the collision.
"Taken out of the game" me arse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0)
Kicked both wide too which he kick in his sleep. Eoghan Flaherty took over the frees. Doyle got dead leg.
All right, I'm convinced.
Precision-targeting of thigh muscles by McGuinness using deep-cover players who've never been booked in their lives.
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 04:13:02 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 11, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 11, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 10, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on February 10, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on January 15, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
If I remember correctly Joe McMahon was having a great game that day. Think he was marking Murphy. His loss was the losing of that game for tyrone. Everything Jimmy did seemed to come off in those days
John Doyle v Kildare 2011 and Bryan Sheehan v Kerry 2012 were taken out of game. Both prominent freetaker though the Dubs taking out Karl Lacey was game changer in 2011.
That's strange given that Johnny Doyle was booked late in extra time that day for grabbing Ryan Bradley by the ankles to stop a Donegal break.
Also strange that, if I remember correctly, the man who had collided with Doyle early in the game was Michael Hegarty, about as far from a dirty player as I've ever seen play.
Doyle didnt score in game. Was taken off and came back in extra time. McGuinness spoke in the media prior saying Donegal players were been targeted 🤣🤣🤣
The collision between Hegarty and Doyle happened three seconds into the game. Doyle played the entire normal time and was reintroduced in extra time. He took two frees within three minutes of the collision.
"Taken out of the game" me arse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlABqUppF0)
Kicked both wide too which he kick in his sleep. Eoghan Flaherty took over the frees. Doyle got dead leg.
All right, I'm convinced.
Precision-targeting of thigh muscles by McGuinness using deep-cover players who've never been booked in their lives.
;D ;D ;D Brilliant
Charlotte Independence was a major disaster for McGuinness. 1 win 6 draws and 7 losses in 14 matches.
In the next 20 matches Charlotte finished with 6 wins 3 draws and 7 losses.
You'd have to imagine that stint shattered his confidence and destroyed his Association football CV.
Is Jim still living in the States?
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
Trying is the first step to failure. You don't try you don't fail. And you have to admire McGunness he has always tried. Always took on a new challenge. Had success, had failure. Not easy to do as you are heading toward your 50's and have a wife and young family. Try it some time.
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
Probably waiting on Ollie Horgan to retire from Finn Harps job. Was one dimensional with his tactics. Out thought by worse Kerry manager Eamon Fitzmaurice in 2014.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 27, 2021, 12:54:46 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
Trying is the first step to failure. You don't try you don't fail. And you have to admire McGunness he has always tried. Always took on a new challenge. Had success, had failure. Not easy to do as you are heading toward your 50's and have a wife and young family. Try it some time.
I do admire him for giving it a go. But he's ruined his legacy a little by doing that. Great life experiences all the same. Not too many can say they've managed in Ireland, Scotland, China and USA. I hope he comes back to GAA and sticks to what he knows and what he is good at.
Jim has a good few bob from his travels large family can see him back in Gaa management in the future.
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
He struck when the iron was hot, made some money, had some life experiences (possibly denied by his GAA playing days?).
I think you'll see him back soon, when Dublin show signs of slowing down he'll be cute enough to put his name forward.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
He struck when the iron was hot, made some money, had some life experiences (possibly denied by his GAA playing days?).
I think you'll see him back soon, when Dublin show signs of slowing down he'll be cute enough to put his name forward.
Mcguinness record since Donegals win has very much Shown he was right person right place right time . He spotted that an all Ireland could be won by destroying the game and he go his Win but that a one off trick and people were on to him straight away and the shameful 2013 exit is proof of that
Quote from: rosnarun on March 01, 2021, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
He struck when the iron was hot, made some money, had some life experiences (possibly denied by his GAA playing days?).
I think you'll see him back soon, when Dublin show signs of slowing down he'll be cute enough to put his name forward.
Mcguinness record since Donegals win has very much Shown he was right person right place right time . He spotted that an all Ireland could be won by destroying the game and he go his Win but that a one off trick and people were on to him straight away and the shameful 2013 exit is proof of that
2013 wasn't a failure of Donegal's tactics, it was a failure of motivation, the Donegal players were punch drunk
In 2014 they beat Dublin
McGuinness hasn't managed since
What McGuinness had apart from tactical know how is a messianic quality that made players believe, what Klopp has had over the last few years
Only the very best have that combination
Actually Donegal's decline in 2013 and Liverpool's decline now bear distinct similarities
Harte had that in 2003 but it waned over the years
Mick O'Dwyer had the messianic quality in spades but less of the tactical know as the years went by
If McGuinness came back to Gaelic football he might not have that same messianic quality
Jim has a large bank balance from his brief soccer travels.
Quote from: skeog on March 01, 2021, 06:40:56 PM
Jim has a large bank balance from his brief soccer travels.
You think?
China would be the big one.The Irish American who owned Charlotte has deep pockets so a substantial payoff would have happened.
Quote from: skeog on March 01, 2021, 06:40:56 PM
Jim has a large bank balance from his brief soccer travels.
But is he happy ;)
Jim is a very complex person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3-5YC_oHjE
McGuinness is holding out for another soccer job as he stated in a recent radio interview. He'll be lucky to get another role in soccer, even in League of Ireland or up north. I think most wouldn't touch him as he'll be seen as high risk.
Fair play to him I say given his colorful journey. He'll need to be getting back in to something fairly lively as he's been out a long time now.
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Yeah I don't know why anyone would expect him to get a loi job. He should go back to doing what he knows and manage a Gaa team.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 06:23:39 PM
Yeah I don't know why anyone would expect him to get a loi job. He should go back to doing what he knows and manage a Gaa team.
Would take him in the morning!!
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 03, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Stephen Glass that played with Newcastle Utd?
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 05:05:46 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 01, 2021, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
He struck when the iron was hot, made some money, had some life experiences (possibly denied by his GAA playing days?).
I think you'll see him back soon, when Dublin show signs of slowing down he'll be cute enough to put his name forward.
Mcguinness record since Donegals win has very much Shown he was right person right place right time . He spotted that an all Ireland could be won by destroying the game and he go his Win but that a one off trick and people were on to him straight away and the shameful 2013 exit is proof of that
2013 wasn't a failure of Donegal's tactics, it was a failure of motivation, the Donegal players were punch drunk
In 2014 they beat Dublin
McGuinness hasn't managed since
What McGuinness had apart from tactical know how is a messianic quality that made players believe, what Klopp has had over the last few years
Only the very best have that combination
Actually Donegal's decline in 2013 and Liverpool's decline now bear distinct similarities
Harte had that in 2003 but it waned over the years
Mick O'Dwyer had the messianic quality in spades but less of the tactical know as the years went by
If McGuinness came back to Gaelic football he might not have that same messianic quality
Was Rory Gallagher still a selector in 2013?
Quote from: macker15 on March 03, 2021, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 05:05:46 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 01, 2021, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 27, 2021, 10:38:10 AM
What's Jim at now? On reflection he totally lost the run of himself. Did well to get that role with Celtic but then wanted to get more into a coaching role for ground ball. Some ego on him to think he could go in at professional level soccer coaching having never played himself. He'd have been safer taking on a county role or sticking with the line of work he was employed for at Celtic.
He struck when the iron was hot, made some money, had some life experiences (possibly denied by his GAA playing days?).
I think you'll see him back soon, when Dublin show signs of slowing down he'll be cute enough to put his name forward.
Mcguinness record since Donegals win has very much Shown he was right person right place right time . He spotted that an all Ireland could be won by destroying the game and he go his Win but that a one off trick and people were on to him straight away and the shameful 2013 exit is proof of that
2013 wasn't a failure of Donegal's tactics, it was a failure of motivation, the Donegal players were punch drunk
In 2014 they beat Dublin
McGuinness hasn't managed since
What McGuinness had apart from tactical know how is a messianic quality that made players believe, what Klopp has had over the last few years
Only the very best have that combination
Actually Donegal's decline in 2013 and Liverpool's decline now bear distinct similarities
Harte had that in 2003 but it waned over the years
Mick O'Dwyer had the messianic quality in spades but less of the tactical know as the years went by
If McGuinness came back to Gaelic football he might not have that same messianic quality
Was Rory Gallagher still a selector in 2013?
He was, not in 2014 though
Came back as manager in 2015
McGuinness was the brains of the operation
Gallagher hasn't got much more than his Uber defensive strategy going for him. People might think that of mcguinness but they'd be wrong.
(That being said I still think their failure against Kerry in 2014? was mainly tactical)
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 09:59:37 PM
Gallagher hasn't got much more than his Uber defensive strategy going for him. People might think that of mcguinness but they'd be wrong.
(That being said I still think their failure against Kerry in 2014? was mainly tactical)
Their tactics hardly worked as they would have liked but it's hard to legislate for a goalkeeper tapping the ball straight to an unmarked full forward
As well as an opportunist goal in the first minute enabled by lax defending
Kerry were the first team to play Donegal at their own game
They got lucky in a terrible final
I personally think Kerry were the weakest of the four semi-finalists in 2014 but things fell beautifully for them
Donegal didn't know what to do though. They were, at that time , a much better team. Yes there was a lucky goal but Kerry shouldn't even have been close enough that it mattered.
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 03, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Take into account the publicity factor, football is full of these oddball appointments.
I can see a LOI club take a gamble on McGuiness, if that's what he's up for why not? Really - what is there to lose? At the minute there is no crowds anyway so defensive football isn't a problem. Alternatively, the hype that would surround him taking over a soccer team in Ireland would possibly sway a chairman of a club in not exactly great financial shape when crowds are allowed back in.
It would be a gamble obviously, but it wouldn't be the oddest thing to ever happen in football either.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 03, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Take into account the publicity factor, football is full of these oddball appointments.
I can see a LOI club take a gamble on McGuiness, if that's what he's up for why not? Really - what is there to lose? At the minute there is no crowds anyway so defensive football isn't a problem. Alternatively, the hype that would surround him taking over a soccer team in Ireland would possibly sway a chairman of a club in not exactly great financial shape when crowds are allowed back in.
It would be a gamble obviously, but it wouldn't be the oddest thing to ever happen in football either.
He would be nuts to go for the LoI when there are loads of other leagues rated higher by UEFA with none of the hassle
https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021
Of course, I see him going to league of Ireland to eek out a handy few quid. There is more structure to it than GAA and probably less headache.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 03, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Take into account the publicity factor, football is full of these oddball appointments.
I can see a LOI club take a gamble on McGuiness, if that's what he's up for why not? Really - what is there to lose? At the minute there is no crowds anyway so defensive football isn't a problem. Alternatively, the hype that would surround him taking over a soccer team in Ireland would possibly sway a chairman of a club in not exactly great financial shape when crowds are allowed back in.
It would be a gamble obviously, but it wouldn't be the oddest thing to ever happen in football either.
You are grossly overestimating McGuinness's profile in Irish soccer. He's a nobody to the average fan. A bogball manager that won something a decade ago in a sport they don't care about.
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 04, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 03, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 03, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Listened to his interview with Joe Molloy and it sounds like something really wasn't right out in Carolina and that he has some kind of NDA to make sure he keeps his money.
He'll be able to defend himself for that and put his best foot forward in whatever interview he goes for I would think LoI or Irish League or something like that could work out for him.
That is par for the course in any professional sport when you get the road.
I reckon McGuiness would get a LOI job no bother if he wanted it, but there is still a few more branches to grab on the professional circuit before he goes to LOI surely - that's one that will always be there for him now, someone, somewhere will always take a gamble.
Really? He's had one managerial job that lasted 15 games at a small club in a pretty low paid, semi-professional league that is, at very best, of a similar standard to the LOI.
And he made a complete balls of it.
Why would that experience land him a LOI job 'no bother'?
Just for additional reference, a larger team in the same division as Charlotte is managed by a Scottish fella called Stephen Glass. His previous job to that appointment was as an assistant coach in the LOI.
And that's before you even get into the suspicion and general enmity felt by many LOI types towards bogballers.
Take into account the publicity factor, football is full of these oddball appointments.
I can see a LOI club take a gamble on McGuiness, if that's what he's up for why not? Really - what is there to lose? At the minute there is no crowds anyway so defensive football isn't a problem. Alternatively, the hype that would surround him taking over a soccer team in Ireland would possibly sway a chairman of a club in not exactly great financial shape when crowds are allowed back in.
It would be a gamble obviously, but it wouldn't be the oddest thing to ever happen in football either.
You are grossly overestimating McGuinness's profile in Irish soccer. He's a nobody to the average fan. A bogball manager that won something a decade ago in a sport they don't care about.
All twenty of them outside of Dublin!
He'd be well enough known around the Northwest should something come up in Derry/Finn Harps or Sligo. He wouldn't get any of the bigger clubs.
According to Off the ball Jimmy is working as a consultant one day a week for Down.
Noted for the predictions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ai7_MdbcZA&t=3720s
Apparently he's not with Down!
Is McGuiness going to try something completely different. A full court press with Upto 12 players pushing up at times. Be get to see something new
Quote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 10:14:53 PMIs McGuiness going to try something completely different. A full court press with Upto 12 players pushing up at times. Be get to see something new
Is this new?
Quote from: Derryman forever on December 22, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 10:14:53 PMIs McGuiness going to try something completely different. A full court press with Upto 12 players pushing up at times. Be get to see something new
Is this new?
It will be if the way they are supposedly intending to use it
Quote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 11:04:33 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 22, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 10:14:53 PMIs McGuiness going to try something completely different. A full court press with Upto 12 players pushing up at times. Be get to see something new
Is this new?
It will be if the way they are supposedly intending to use it
Cant really see how it will be innovative. But we will see.
Mc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
Quote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 11:04:33 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 22, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: redzone on December 22, 2023, 10:14:53 PMIs McGuiness going to try something completely different. A full court press with Upto 12 players pushing up at times. Be get to see something new
Is this new?
It will be if the way they are supposedly intending to use it
Are we getting leaks? No wonder he's looking to build this big fence
Quote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
New style will be all defence and all attack. That's the new thing.
Defend with numbers, like basketball, then all out attack with pace, like basketball. Everybody attacking giving more options.
More players will run beyond the ball carrier.
As the song goes..... ''Don't go back, you should never go back''
I suppose he needs the money - the soccerball venture did not work out. Sports coaching is his job and what puts meals on the table.
Great to see McGuinness back. Ulster Championship will be exciting. I've spoken with a couple of DL men close enough to the camp, the squad is going all out. Many have cancelled pre planned holidays (before Jim's appointment) to be at all the sessions.
G, he come to nough.The players ain't there, He gonna try something Derry are already doing,
The level of commitment demanded by McGuinness is unsustainable longer term. He rules in a military manner which means that unless success is obtained instantly players will begin to question the level to which they are putting their lives on hold. It worked the last time because he won 2 Ulster titles and an AI title in his first 2 seasons. He is now 10 years older with not an awful lot achieved since then and I think he will need something similar to convince the players of his methods.
He had top quality players last time also, who knew they were close and that regime was what was needed to get over the line.
I don't believe the players are there this time around and surely he put doubt in the panels heads on their own abilities asking Murphy to come out of retirement.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on December 24, 2023, 10:02:32 AMHe had top quality players last time also, who knew they were close and that regime was what was needed to get over the line.
I don't believe the players are there this time around and surely he put doubt in the panels heads on their own abilities asking Murphy to come out of retirement.
I would say the same quality isn't in the country either. Could they produce similar standards to Derry? I would say they could
He is a great motivator
"That's the homes and the people they are waiting for a team "
https://youtu.be/s6J76lX9CZk&t=515s
"Then I realise that we are a good team like"
https://youtu.be/s6J76lX9CZk&t=2103s
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on December 24, 2023, 10:02:32 AMHe had top quality players last time also, who knew they were close and that regime was what was needed to get over the line.
I don't believe the players are there this time around and surely he put doubt in the panels heads on their own abilities asking Murphy to come out of retirement.
How many was marked down as top quality in 2010 before he started the last time?
Getting the best out of all players having them fit, conditioned and focused to challenge the best was his trait the last time and will be looking to repeat that again this time.
Mcfadden, lacy, murphy, kavanagh, cassidy. Not sure how well the mcgees were known prior to donegal taking off to be fair but you can't argue these werent top players prior to them getting success.
It's well known they had that bad culture that he rightly corrected, got them well conditioned and setup a system that naturalised better teams.
The culture may not need corrected this time, all teams are expected to operate at a high standard of fitness and there is little separating them in that regard, so in my view it wil boil down to the quality of players at his disposal.
I'm stumped to think how he could setup the team to play any different than most county teams are playing also, so I don't think he will get an edge on teams there like he did last time
McGuinness had a plan, a direction, a belief. He created a aura. He was lucky to get an AI in before Dublin became consistent, Mayo did them a favour beating Dublin in the semi in 2012. And to meeting Mayo in the final was always going to be a help getting over the hurdle of winning a Final.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 25, 2023, 01:53:12 AMMcGuinness had a plan, a direction, a belief. He created a aura. He was lucky to get an AI in before Dublin became consistent, Mayo did them a favour beating Dublin in the semi in 2012. And to meeting Mayo in the final was always going to be a help getting over the hurdle of winning a Final.
Donegal beat Dublin two years later by a bit to spare so I think they would have beaten them in the 2012 final had they reached it instead of Mayo.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on December 24, 2023, 09:14:37 PMMcfadden, lacy, murphy, kavanagh, cassidy. Not sure how well the mcgees were known prior to donegal taking off to be fair but you can't argue these werent top players prior to them getting success.
It's well known they had that bad culture that he rightly corrected, got them well conditioned and setup a system that naturalised better teams.
The culture may not need corrected this time, all teams are expected to operate at a high standard of fitness and there is little separating them in that regard, so in my view it wil boil down to the quality of players at his disposal.
I'm stumped to think how he could setup the team to play any different than most county teams are playing also, so I don't think he will get an edge on teams there like he did last time
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on December 24, 2023, 09:14:37 PMMcfadden, lacy, murphy, kavanagh, cassidy. Not sure how well the mcgees were known prior to donegal taking off to be fair but you can't argue these werent top players prior to them getting success.
It's well known they had that bad culture that he rightly corrected, got them well conditioned and setup a system that naturalised better teams.
The culture may not need corrected this time, all teams are expected to operate at a high standard of fitness and there is little separating them in that regard, so in my view it wil boil down to the quality of players at his disposal.
I'm stumped to think how he could setup the team to play any different than most county teams are playing also, so I don't think he will get an edge on teams there like he did last time
Cassidy and Lacey had both won Allstars earlier and would have been on the radar of GAA fans nationally but that would have been it. In 2011 both Cassidy and Lacey won l stars under McGuinness. He upped performance levels from everyone. And then he dropped Cassidy.
Quote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
Quote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV
Quote from: redzone on December 27, 2023, 07:21:04 AMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV
If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 27, 2023, 08:51:51 AMQuote from: redzone on December 27, 2023, 07:21:04 AMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV
If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.
That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?
The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.
On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).
Quote from: J70 on December 27, 2023, 03:24:15 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on December 27, 2023, 08:51:51 AMQuote from: redzone on December 27, 2023, 07:21:04 AMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV
If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.
That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?
The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.
On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).
2012 there was a goal line clearance to stop tyrone winning match, 2015 last tryone attack hit the crossbar stopping tyrone winning.
They met 4 times i think bwtween 2011 and 2015, 2 goal line clearances and a clear sending off which wasnt given. Like i said there wasnt much between those teams at that time.
Mickey seemed to be fixated on beating jim for some reason and overall tyrone suffered due to mickeys introduction of a very defensive system which never played to tyrones strength.
Looking forward to see how the derry and donegal games will go over the next few years
Quote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
Well that's fair enough but I don't think you can really credibly suggest a game was "men against boys" when there was nothing in it until the final seconds. I'm not convinced the physical difference was as great as you suggest either. Certainly McGuinness had taken Donegal's fitness and strength levels up several notches and Tyrone by that point were a (great) team in decline, but if the physical gap was as vast as men and against boys then Tyrone wouldn't have got close. In reality they probably should have had the game won before the late Donegal goal.
Tyrone08 is bang on about McGuinness getting in Mickey's head during that era though. His latter years with Tyrone were spoiled by trying to copy the super defensive model and even make it more defensive, while failing to find the balance with attack against better opponents. It was never anywhere near as effective as the best McGuinness Donegal teams (and perhaps not as effective even as Gallagher's Derry in recent times). That and the fact he hasn't won a big game in Croke Park since 2008 make him an intriguing choice for a Derry team still seeking that ideal balance and how to win the big games. I digress, but it's certainly going to be interesting.
I have a prediction. The football in Ulster will be so putrid this year coming with Harte, McGuinness and Laverty in charge of teams, that there will be a massive pressure to introduce new rules to reverse the way football is going.
And what might those new rules be?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 28, 2023, 10:09:52 AMAnd what might those new rules be?
Who knows? All I'm saying is there will be big pressure to do something.
Saying that it's surely time for teams to better utilise the opportunity that the mark rule gives. I'm amazed teams don't work shorter marks when faced with a mass defence.
Quote from: Itchy on December 28, 2023, 10:18:25 AMQuote from: Rossfan on December 28, 2023, 10:09:52 AMAnd what might those new rules be?
Who knows? All I'm saying is there will be big pressure to do something.
Saying that it's surely time for teams to better utilise the opportunity that the mark rule gives. I'm amazed teams don't work shorter marks when faced with a mass defence.
Most try and use it abit do they not? Problem is that defending teams will be smart enough to stop the better free takers from winning a mark and most players aren't comfortable kicking from distance.
And if Refs enforce the 15 second rule (for a change) most will fail to score as they won't have time to
Hop the ball 3 or 4 times stealing a metre each time
Settle themselves
Run in another 5 metres
Then tap an easy chance over
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 27, 2023, 04:14:34 PMQuote from: J70 on December 27, 2023, 03:24:15 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on December 27, 2023, 08:51:51 AMQuote from: redzone on December 27, 2023, 07:21:04 AMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 26, 2023, 02:03:49 PMQuote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on December 26, 2023, 12:27:00 PMQuote from: Derryman forever on December 23, 2023, 09:54:30 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 23, 2023, 09:18:24 AMQuote from: the goal was on on December 22, 2023, 11:31:03 PMMc Guinness was with down most of last year. Didn't see nothing new or innovative there!
according to Conor Laverty he took part in a training session in January and wasn't part of the Down management.
Going by reports of Donegal'S recent challenge they played with big intensity and numbers back giving the opposition little time or room on the ball and attacked with pace on the counter.
innovative that style isn't but will take serious strength and conditioning to keep it going into July. They should have a strong league campaign this spring after a very poor one this year.
It was the intensity of his 2011 and 12 team that, for me was the outstanding characteristic.
I watched them play Tyrone at clones in the semi of 2011 , and I left that game thinking they could not be beat.
The whole team were really bulked up and the ferocity of their tackling was phenomenal.
The sound of many of the collisions was sickening.
Against Tyrone and Derry that year it was like boys against nen.
But i think that eventually went against them as they seem to become slower.
Boys against men where the men needed an injury time goal to win?!
I think you missed the point i was hoping to make.
IE. Their physical superiority not their footballing.
It was a great rivalry that time. Don't think anyone in Tyrone will agree with you on the men v boys but isn't amazing how much a factor hunger is in players. Gormley,Hughes, Mulligan,Jordan,Ricey were well through the mill at that stage. They were definitely great times.
https://youtu.be/KquVMI2b1tY?si=CBMbrBFAGpacWMCV
If you look back at those tyrone/donegal matches they were always cagey affairs. Luck played a part too as there should have been a few sending offs which never happened. Joe mcmahon getting punched in the back of the head and going off with a concussion while the donegal player got a yellow springs to mind.
That was one incident, and Leo was lucky not to get the line for sure, what other ones were there?
The key for me in the McGuinness-Harte rivalry was that Donegal would repeatedly shut down the Tyrone attack for half hours at a time, whereas at the other end we always had enough to see us through.
On the overall discussion, as someone mentioned earlier, a big part of what made McGuinness successful was getting consistency out of the likes of McFadden, Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher and so on. The talent had always been there, but you could never depend on it. McFadden would shoot the lights out from all angles in one game, and then disappear completely for the next three or four. That changed in 2011-13 (he lost his form completely during 2014, which was partly why we didn't scrape that second AI).
2012 there was a goal line clearance to stop tyrone winning match, 2015 last tryone attack hit the crossbar stopping tyrone winning.
They met 4 times i think bwtween 2011 and 2015, 2 goal line clearances and a clear sending off which wasnt given. Like i said there wasnt much between those teams at that time.
Mickey seemed to be fixated on beating jim for some reason and overall tyrone suffered due to mickeys introduction of a very defensive system which never played to tyrones strength.
Looking forward to see how the derry and donegal games will go over the next few years
2015 McGuinness was gone, although in fairness Gallagher didn't change a whole lot, which meant he failed to adapt to other teams adapting to us. Don't remember the crossbar or much about the match except that I recall it being a dour affair, as per usual!
The 2012 Penrose shot was a 10/1 effort. He hit it well and Durcan did well to get the foot to it as it came through a crowd of players from the 14 yard line, but that's not a shot you'd normally expect to score. I'd compare it to us hitting a bouncing ball against the post in the last minute of the 2014 AI final - we came close to salvaging a draw, but you still felt over the game that Kerry were just that wee bit better on the day.
On the other hand, sometimes those low percentage efforts go your way - in 2016 Tyrone won the UF with three unbelievable, spectacular long range scores in injury time after another grindfest (probably the most boring of all our meetings I'd say).
So maybe your point stands!
Maybe McGuinness will bring Murphy to Tír na nÓg instead of doing anything tactical.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 28, 2023, 10:09:52 AMAnd what might those new rules be?
Give them hurling sticks?