The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[Hardy]

People's rights are contradictory.How can anyone who is a Christian be reasonably expected to provide goods or services facilitating gay marriage when it is a total anathema to them and their beliefs?

Once again, with feeling:

Because, leaving aside the civil law and the illegality of discrimination, according to the Christ whose  teachings you pretend to follow, you must. You are not required, in fact you are not permitted by the tenets of your professed faith to put yourself up as some sort of gatekeeper for Jesus, that Jesus himself would despise, by making any judgement on the actions of others. You must concern yourself only with your own actions and whether they are in accordance with the faith you profess, the fundamental principle of which is to be fair, reasonable and generous and assume the best not the worst of others.

How can you not understand this? I am not a believer in the supernatural but I can see this is a fine set of principles by which to live. And the polar opposite of the mean, squinting-window, selfish, small, stupid, fearful and spiteful mode of existence you profess here.

[armaghniac]

The mob are quick to turn on their own, if they are off message
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31896339

[T Fearon]

Hardy those tenets don't extend to facilitating sin or promoting the defiance of God's Law.You simply cannot believe homosexuality to be wrong while simultaneously icing a design on a gay wedding cake celebrating such a union,and worse still,accept payment.That's simply hypocrisy.By not facilitating the request the business owner is not passing any judgement on anyone.He or she is simply trying to live in accordance with their.own beliefs.

[gallsman]

The mob are quick to turn on their own, if they are off message
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31896339

What mob would that be? You realise that just because two people might be gay, they are allowed have differences of opinion?

You'd hardly much it if people decided you weren't allowed to have a difference of opinion with Tony because you're both from Armagh, would you?

[Hardy]

Hardy those tenets don't extend to facilitating sin or promoting the defiance of God's Law.You simply cannot believe homosexuality to be wrong while simultaneously icing a design on a gay wedding cake celebrating such a union,and worse still,accept payment.That's simply hypocrisy.By not facilitating the request the business owner is not passing any judgement on anyone.He or she is simply trying to live in accordance with their.own beliefs.

Nonsense. You are passing judgement on the the actions of others. You can't do that and claim to be a Christian. There's no grey area here. Show up at your pearly gates with that on your rap sheet and it's the cinder pit for you.

[T Fearon]

That is nonsense.As a Christian your mission is to witness and be an example to.others.It is not in any way an act of judgement to politely refuse to be involved in the sins of others,or if you like aiding and abetting sin.

[Hardy]

But by judging that what others are doing is sinful, you are sinning yourself - committing the biggest (some say the only) sin that Christ despises. "Judge not and you shall not be judged". "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Tony, you're pegging rocks with abandon at people who want a room for the night. Do you even have a place in your stable?

Even if it was true that the pair at your reception desk were sinners, even if they were the lowest of the low, you have a specific statement as to how your treatment of them will be judged when you ring the bell at Peter's gate: "Since you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me."

You say you want to set an example. There are two kinds of example. You know the sentence for someone who sets the example of specifically disobeying Christ's instructions. "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

But even a miserable sinner like you can repent and be saved, Tony. Take the weary travellers into the bosom of your B&B. Open the residents' bar. Offer them a hot water bottle. Bring them breakfast in bed. And don't backslide or allow your mind to dwell for a moment on what they might be doing in their room or you're back to square one and looking at eternity on the roasting spit.

[magpie seanie]

That is nonsense.As a Christian your mission is to witness and be an example to.others.It is not in any way an act of judgement to politely refuse to be involved in the sins of others,or if you like aiding and abetting sin.

Tony - read the bit in bold again. You ARE judging that someone else's actions are sinful. It's not up to you to judge. you might think you've a fair idea what is or isn't a sin but it's up to God to decide/judge. Live and let live. All you can do is mind what you do yourself and as you say, set (what you think is) good example. discriminating against people you think might be sinning is dodgy ground at best.

[johnneycool]

But by judging that what others are doing is sinful, you are sinning yourself - committing the biggest (some say the only) sin that Christ despises. "Judge not and you shall not be judged". "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Tony, you're pegging rocks with abandon at people who want a room for the night. Do you even have a place in your stable?

Even if it was true that the pair at your reception desk were sinners, even if they were the lowest of the low, you have a specific statement as to how your treatment of them will be judged when you ring the bell at Peter's gate: "Since you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me."

You say you want to set an example. There are two kinds of example. You know the sentence for someone who sets the example of specifically disobeying Christ's instructions. "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

But even a miserable sinner like you can repent and be saved, Tony. Take the weary travellers into the bosom of your B&B. Open the residents' bar. Offer them a hot water bottle. Bring them breakfast in bed. And don't backslide or allow your mind to dwell for a moment on what they might be doing in their room or you're back to square one and looking at eternity on the roasting spit.

I've said it before, most of these Christian types wouldn't even have given the carpenter Joseph and his heavily pregnant 'betrothed' virgin Mary the stable, let alone a bed for the night...

Hypocrites.

[muppet]

That is nonsense.As a Christian your mission is to witness and be an example to.others.It is not in any way an act of judgement to politely refuse to be involved in the sins of others,or if you like aiding and abetting sin.

Yet you are a huge fan of Sean Brady, the man who silenced one of the only people willing to speak out against Brendan Smyth.

[magpie seanie]

Didn't Jesus hang around with sinners and even worse - tax collectors.

I think it's pretty clear that it's not up to us to decide who is "good" or "bad". Jesus didn't do it when he was here and isn't that the template we're supposed to aspire to?

A lot of people go to Mass every week and never listen.

[armaghniac]

The mob are quick to turn on their own, if they are off message
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31896339

What mob would that be? You realise that just because two people might be gay, they are allowed have differences of opinion?

You'd hardly much it if people decided you weren't allowed to have a difference of opinion with Tony because you're both from Armagh, would you?

Calling on people to boycott a business because someone expresses an opinion isn't very respectful of the alternate point of view. This is not unusual, people are often characterised as anti Gay if they express any opinion vaguely supportive of the continuation of marriage in its current form, you only have to look at this thread to see that.

In the Irish contect Keith Mills has been talking a lot of sense, but has been abused for saying so and not allowed make his point in Gay forums. A lot of people do not think he is entitled to his opinion.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/why-ill-be-voting-no-to-samesex-marriage-even-though-im-gay-30953906.html

[muppet]

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

There were plenty of women who supported the status quo above too.

[armaghniac]

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

Another attempt to make a connection with worthy issues in the past with which the present one has nothing much in common.

There were plenty of women who supported the status quo  too.

I blame Francis Rossi.

[muppet]

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/57301/ten-things-an-irish-woman-could-not-do-in-1970-and-be-prepared-to-cringe

Another attempt to make a connection with worthy issues in the past with which the present one has nothing much in common.

There were plenty of women who supported the status quo  too.

I blame Francis Rossi.

Yes, you are right. We should never look at history for guidance.