Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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belfastsaff

plain and simply I cant see the reasons why lenny has been given another year?

bannside

If anyone had asked me 2 years ago that after two years of failure to get out of division 4, that I'd support a third year for the same manager (no matter who he was) I'd have said not a chance. But sometimes there's a need to step back and take a wider view of things and not jump to irrational decisions. Or as Hardstation rightly says, why advocate change just for changes sake.

I base my support for another term on two main factors. One, we were very unlucky against Derry where we had a good point disallowed, and robbed blind in Carrick On Shannon by a carnapicious wee Sligo ref who played to the large home support. I say robbed blind because in 40 years I never saw decisions like B Judge (some name) made that day. We were highly competitive in both games and lost both by one point. In effect our league as good as over, and we had a horrific championship draw with Tyrone to contend with.

At this stage Lenny is ten times wider about the players he can depend on, the new type of players that would come in and either make a difference or strengthen proper competition for match selection. He will know what needs freshened up and what the priorities are to eke out 10% or 20% improvement across the board that should give us a real chance of finally getting out of division four. If that means tweaking his ground rules to facilitate one or two additions during the campaign, then maybe that needs to be taken into consideration.

If we are still having this same discussion in 10 months, then I'd find it much harder to support a fourth term, but I hope and expect Lenny gets ratified for another year and be confident that being the case, there will be a noticeable improvement on the first two.








Gold

I just think an outside manager with charisma like Baker might bring all together and get a bit of a buzz again behind the county team

How people wanted Baker out after our achievements was beyond me. Granted we had some cracking players with drive and bite at that stage, our half back line in particular had pace and drive, something that has been sorely lacking before and since

To be honest it is totally flat at the moment and whether that has anything to do with the management I don't know.

Agree there is no point to change for change shake but if anyone worthwhile wants to breath life and charisma into us I'd be all for it now, not next year
"Cheeky Charlie McKenna..."

Spike

Quote from: bannside on August 28, 2019, 10:10:53 AM
If anyone had asked me 2 years ago that after two years of failure to get out of division 4, that I'd support a third year for the same manager (no matter who he was) I'd have said not a chance. But sometimes there's a need to step back and take a wider view of things and not jump to irrational decisions. Or as Hardstation rightly says, why advocate change just for changes sake.

I base my support for another term on two main factors. One, we were very unlucky against Derry where we had a good point disallowed, and robbed blind in Carrick On Shannon by a carnapicious wee Sligo ref who played to the large home support. I say robbed blind because in 40 years I never saw decisions like B Judge (some name) made that day. We were highly competitive in both games and lost both by one point. In effect our league as good as over, and we had a horrific championship draw with Tyrone to contend with.

At this stage Lenny is ten times wider about the players he can depend on, the new type of players that would come in and either make a difference or strengthen proper competition for match selection. He will know what needs freshened up and what the priorities are to eke out 10% or 20% improvement across the board that should give us a real chance of finally getting out of division four. If that means tweaking his ground rules to facilitate one or two additions during the campaign, then maybe that needs to be taken into consideration.

If we are still having this same discussion in 10 months, then I'd find it much harder to support a fourth term, but I hope and expect Lenny gets ratified for another year and be confident that being the case, there will be a noticeable improvement on the first two.

BS, our squad is the only one in Ireland that is getting physically smaller in size and body shape. Never mind the tactics, that is unforgivable.  Lenny was a poor choice to start with, he extinguished our last hope of getting the stayaways to come back with his banality and in two years has actually regressed us as a footballing force (which was quite the achievement given how how poor the previous regime had left us) .......why oh why would we give him a another term.  You're basing it on coming within a point of derry in a league game as a reason to keep him on??! Holy Christ. 

There has not been one positive that Lenny has brought to Antrim, not one. Jobs for the boys if he gets another year. 

Gold is right in that the whole thing is flat, we need new blood - but a considered choice and not another bargain bucket.

paddyjohn

So we get rid of LH and start the cycle again? Or do we give him one more chance?

Do we hijack the Johnny McBride ticket from Derry? Do we go back to John McKeever and offer him the job or do we go back to West Belfast and get somebody from there?

bannside

#16850
Spike I share your hurt, but trying to be rational about the matter, I base my support on deserving a draw at least against Derry and Leitrim (the two teams who went up) and also an exceptionally good performance against Louth who were level at top of division three. But yes...2019 was overall disappointing for various reasons. The loss of four big players from the year before didnt help, all players I'd have expected to start and make a difference.

The stay away supporters wont appreciate how Paddy Mc Aleer was progressing, or 2018 POY Peter Healey, or Conor Murray who is one of the best in the county atm. Kristian Healey and Mark Sweeney (Dublin club player of the year with St Judes) were missing for personal reasons, and all 5 above have the physique and technical ability to be in or around our first 15. Marty Johnston was out hurt too for a long time. So if you can work with that, this is largely what I'm basing my support for Lenny for another term. Regarding physique, the POY last year was the diminutive Patrick Mc Cormack.

Lenny does need to look at things now with the benefit of two years at the helm, and should be shrewd enough to know that it needs some tweaks to inject fresh impetus and reinvigorate both the squad and the supporters. As Gold rightly states, the scene has gone a bit flat in recent years, and the missing supporters are waiting on something exciting to draw them back again.

Spike

#16851
BS, I  need your positivity - you should bottle it and sell it.

Paddy McCormaick is a nice footballer, but has limits (needs a few years). 

Connor murray is a good footballer but you need a workhorse with him as conor doesn't like the tracking back.  Mark sweeney is def county grade. marty is a squad man, and to be frank, you must be watching a different kristian than i am. 

Lenny started stale and has continued thus. Sadly, if you watch cargin or at galls when at full strength, the best players on the pitch are from those 2 clubs (aging as they are) and lenny seemingly cant get players (even the ones who are not well into their thirties) from those clubs to play.  Big problem.

whatwillbwillb

#16852
Looking at players looking at managers debating who's up to the grade who isn't! We had two great Minor/U20 squads that proved they have the ability to play football if kept together and worked with in a strategic manner for the next 3 years and then resign ourselves to fact that we may progress out of Div4 then which would be realistic and possibly compete. These kids have been virtually ignored or lost interest as they are being looked after through their clubs or universities where the penny has dropped. 

Ask yourselves this, would you write a cheque to Antrim? If so would you have the confidence that it would be invested wisely? Then you ask yourself the question, is the brains there within the present executive that exists?

I would say no,  as its been a musical chair exercise for years and if that doesn't change and we don't purge the present committees and senior executive then we will continue to have "no pot to piss in" and invest strategically for the young talent that eventually walk away due to the lack of leadership and intelligence!

We need to get people involved that have nothing to prove to anyone, possibly retired from professional life and used to doing deals and don't need the cash as part of their everyday week to week budgets! A total clean house from the top and build slowly but intelligently with proper investment that is totally transparent to all the clubs and maybe then we will get the buy in from all!

bannside

"Looking at players looking at managers debating who's up to the grade who isnt".

Youve lost me. Has somebody done something wrong?? Is this something we shouldn't do?

To me the county panel should consist of the best players in the county, at that particular time, whether they are aged 18 or 34. There are indeed some excellent footballers in or around the 20 year old age group....let them shine in the next few weeks with their clubs and I am quite confident their talent will be noted!

You suggest getting rid of whole county board, get whole new group of experienced professionals in. "Its been a musical chair exercise for years"......then you go on to advocate moving those same chairs again!!!

Gaelfast....which extends into other areas of the county too, is a major part of the strategic plan, but one that requires both buy in and patience.. And yes, Croke Park did write the cheque because they did see a calibre of executive they could do business with.

Of course not everything's rosy in the garden, but there is a lot of good work going on if you actually choose to want to see it.

whatwillbwillb

#16854
 To me the county panel should consist of the best players in the county, at that particular time, whether they are aged 18 or 34. There are indeed some excellent footballers in or around the 20 year old age group....let them shine in the next few weeks with their clubs and I am quite confident their talent will be noted! [/

I haven't seen this happening and they've been shinning for a while?

You suggest getting rid of whole county board, get whole new group of experienced professionals in. "Its been a musical chair exercise for years"......then you go on to advocate moving those same chairs again!!!

I havent advocated moving any chairs Ive suggested getting rid of all the dead wood that's been involved for years in those chairs and achieved nought but take up a different role because of mate rates! Attract people that have achieved success in their lives that have genuinely walked away in their droves to other sports.

Gaelfast....which extends into other areas of the county too, is a major part of the strategic plan, but one that requires both buy in and patience.. And yes, Croke Park did write the cheque because they did see a calibre of executive they could do business with.


To my knowledge and I stand to be corrected haven't engaged with UU or Queens where that talent is in abundance as part of their strategic plan.... We expect Croke to write a cheque, talking about the corporate approach to save us going back cap in hand to sponsor's and virtually pleading with them to stay at reduced rates! We are not an attractive prospect plain and simple.

Of course not everything's rosy in the garden, but there is a lot of good work going on if you actually choose to want to see it.

We agree on something its not... work with everyday bannside and yes some fantastic work at grass root club level but not at high level imo.




Caesar

Whatwillbewillb, who are the young players who "have been shining for a while" that you feel have been over-looked by Lenny and the county set up?

bannside

The senior management team will know every player that has featured for the under 20s of the last few years, and the few years before that. They have scouts at many games, and will have at upcoming championship matches over the coming weeks and months. Hopefully the players you feel are worthy of inclusion on senior panel do enough to catch the eye. If not feel free to pm the names of those you feel are not getting due consideration. But theres a good chance they are already on Lennys radar if they're up to the required standard.

Putting their names out here is not a good idea. Every Tom Dick and Harry will have an opinion and youd be surprised how negative people can be. Better for them to do their talking on the pitch. We dont have hundreds of class acts so they have a bit of class, that should stand out.

You mention Higher Level. Are these guys you talk of playing Sigerson? Because that's the minimum standard I would suggest!  I'm not debating here with you by the way. We are all looking for the Antrim to fulfil their potential.

whatwillbwillb

#16857
Respectfully bannside, I feel your still missing my point.

You mention Higher Level. Are these guys you talk of playing Sigerson? Because that's the minimum standard I would suggest!  I'm not debating here with you by the way. We are all looking for the Antrim to fulfil their potential.

Your still at 10 so to speak Im at 3 in relation to this talent, it needs to be assembled separately and then worked with and investment put in  to eventually become our senior panel. We need to accept the fact that Div4 is a reality for the next few years which is realistic and build with a specific focus, most of these young guns will I'm sure play Sigerson for their universities as well as lads that aren't at uni.

Lots of genuine lads on here talking about Cargin Galls etc and the older lads that can still do a job, where's the vision? BTW I know Lennie and most of the senior management of both codes a long time, this is not a criticism around those lads in any way.  I squarely leave the blame of where we are today as previously said with the decision makers around all the committee's for years (same faces different roles) in the county for lack of vision, couldn't do it then cant do it now! 

Corporately why would you work your backside off  encourage substantial investment/sponsorship  into the County when I know probably like you that this would be squandered or disappear on "self help" scenarios and never reach the likes of Lennie or other committed lads managing teams within the County levels looking with some intelligence to the future without the financial and full support of the county. 

Who made the decision allegedly and ridiculous if this did happen, to pay all the players before last season started a set one off figure to cover expenses for the year? Which btw I believe  goes against all GPA rules ? This would be an example of what I'm talking about if this actually did happen, and I accept that this may just be a scurrilous rumour, clubs need to be included it needs to be open a fully transparent.   

Caesar

Players from the previous years championship panel receive a bit of a grant (which is paid by the GPA not the county) that they are given at the start of the following season. Perhaps this is what you mean as there were definitely no expenses paid in advance.

All players need to submit monthly expense claims (mileage + £20 per week food allowance) which need to be signed off by management and the county treasurer before payment each month.

whatwillbwillb

Thanks for that Caesar I am aware of the procedure but that wasn't what I was saying, no arguement with what GPA do annually it's the last paragraph I have issue with as allegedly some players have indicated that's not what has transpired, one lad supposedly took his and spun off to America. Agreed that's what should have occurred as indicated in your response. Open and transparent .