Should An Glenn object?

[Itchy]

I am surprised as this game will not be re-played.

The decision to replay means that the match has not been won . So there must be no winner.
If KC refuse to play the rematch presumably they would forfeit it.

I think that's the likely outcome. What a mess.

[seafoid]

Crazy, Glen have a right to appeal and no one can take that off them. But personally, I wouldn't want to replay the whole game for 25 seconds of a mistake, that in all probability wouldn't have costed the match. If KC refuse to play and Glen have a walk over that will be the biggest a balls up to the season ever

Really?

Yeah really, the odds are massively stacked against a team looking a last minute goal. My own team gave one up few years ago, heartbreaking as it is it just doesn't happen that often, in all my days playing and ref'ing its rare, we all have memories where it has happened but its not as common.

But look Glen are right to appeal, its in the rules that extra players on the pitch that shouldn't have been there has the option of fine forfeit and replay, personally I wouldn't go looking a replay, old school and all that.

At no point do I think KC cheated in this, this was a mistake by the officials for not ensuring both players left the field like they normally do, no one was instructed to stay on the pitch.

Even if there was no last minute effect, the probability of a last minute goal would not be zero. Last minute goals are tail risk. Here is an example from another sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5VZc28Lis4&t=180s

The key point imo is that the match was not decided because of the tail risk. Even if it was for 30 seconds. And Glen couldn't be expected to take their beating if they hadn't been beaten. That's why there has to be a replay. 

Cheating would have to be investigated. I have no idea whether KC cheated or not.  Nobody does.

But you are confident that the result would have changed had the extra player for that amount of time prevented Glen from winning?

I've said already the balls up needed to be looked at and hopefully the main conclusions will be, subs through the middle of the pitch (says in in rules anyway, unless injured, player can leave at nearest point) subs off first before putting subs on.

Adding 20 seconds for each sub, 10 subs overall would put on just over 3 minutes as a bare minimum (should all subs be in the second half) on top of the injury time

Say the chance of a goal in the last minute is 1 in 5. With 15 vs 15 they would have had a 1/5 chance of scoring a goal and winning.
With 15 v 16 they had no chance.

You think the chances went from 20% to 0.0% ?

Why don't we say it was something more like from 4% to 2%.
In other words, Kilmacud's probability of winning the game increased from 96% to 98%. Not a major difference.
They deserved to win and would've won regardless of the mistaken 16th man.

Steps!

1/5 is 20%
KC would have been 80%. It has to add to 100%.
If Wattys go ro 2 % then  KC go to 98 %

The extra man removed the tail risk. But lost them the match.

[Franko]

Crazy, Glen have a right to appeal and no one can take that off them. But personally, I wouldn't want to replay the whole game for 25 seconds of a mistake, that in all probability wouldn't have costed the match. If KC refuse to play and Glen have a walk over that will be the biggest a balls up to the season ever

Really?

Yeah really, the odds are massively stacked against a team looking a last minute goal. My own team gave one up few years ago, heartbreaking as it is it just doesn't happen that often, in all my days playing and ref'ing its rare, we all have memories where it has happened but its not as common.

But look Glen are right to appeal, its in the rules that extra players on the pitch that shouldn't have been there has the option of fine forfeit and replay, personally I wouldn't go looking a replay, old school and all that.

At no point do I think KC cheated in this, this was a mistake by the officials for not ensuring both players left the field like they normally do, no one was instructed to stay on the pitch.

Even if there was no last minute effect, the probability of a last minute goal would not be zero. Last minute goals are tail risk. Here is an example from another sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5VZc28Lis4&t=180s

The key point imo is that the match was not decided because of the tail risk. Even if it was for 30 seconds. And Glen couldn't be expected to take their beating if they hadn't been beaten. That's why there has to be a replay. 

Cheating would have to be investigated. I have no idea whether KC cheated or not.  Nobody does.

But you are confident that the result would have changed had the extra player for that amount of time prevented Glen from winning?

I've said already the balls up needed to be looked at and hopefully the main conclusions will be, subs through the middle of the pitch (says in in rules anyway, unless injured, player can leave at nearest point) subs off first before putting subs on.

Adding 20 seconds for each sub, 10 subs overall would put on just over 3 minutes as a bare minimum (should all subs be in the second half) on top of the injury time

Say the chance of a goal in the last minute is 1 in 5. With 15 vs 15 they would have had a 1/5 chance of scoring a goal and winning.
With 15 v 16 they had no chance.

One thing that i'm sick of reading in relation to this is peoples little scenarios  about how the game might have ended if it had of been 15 vs 15 at the end.

Have a laugh every time I see one of these

It's one thing saying it - but the most bewildering thing is that people actually sit and take time to type this nonsense out

[Ulster Frank]

When is the  rematch meant to happen?

Croke Park 11th February.  Throw in 5 pm

[tbrick18]

Crazy, Glen have a right to appeal and no one can take that off them. But personally, I wouldn't want to replay the whole game for 25 seconds of a mistake, that in all probability wouldn't have costed the match. If KC refuse to play and Glen have a walk over that will be the biggest a balls up to the season ever

Really?

Yeah really, the odds are massively stacked against a team looking a last minute goal. My own team gave one up few years ago, heartbreaking as it is it just doesn't happen that often, in all my days playing and ref'ing its rare, we all have memories where it has happened but its not as common.

But look Glen are right to appeal, its in the rules that extra players on the pitch that shouldn't have been there has the option of fine forfeit and replay, personally I wouldn't go looking a replay, old school and all that.

At no point do I think KC cheated in this, this was a mistake by the officials for not ensuring both players left the field like they normally do, no one was instructed to stay on the pitch.

Even if there was no last minute effect, the probability of a last minute goal would not be zero. Last minute goals are tail risk. Here is an example from another sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5VZc28Lis4&t=180s

The key point imo is that the match was not decided because of the tail risk. Even if it was for 30 seconds. And Glen couldn't be expected to take their beating if they hadn't been beaten. That's why there has to be a replay. 

Cheating would have to be investigated. I have no idea whether KC cheated or not.  Nobody does.

But you are confident that the result would have changed had the extra player for that amount of time prevented Glen from winning?

I've said already the balls up needed to be looked at and hopefully the main conclusions will be, subs through the middle of the pitch (says in in rules anyway, unless injured, player can leave at nearest point) subs off first before putting subs on.

Adding 20 seconds for each sub, 10 subs overall would put on just over 3 minutes as a bare minimum (should all subs be in the second half) on top of the injury time

Say the chance of a goal in the last minute is 1 in 5. With 15 vs 15 they would have had a 1/5 chance of scoring a goal and winning.
With 15 v 16 they had no chance.

One thing that i'm sick of reading in relation to this is peoples little scenarios  about how the game might have ended if it had of been 15 vs 15 at the end.

Have a laugh every time I see one of these

It's one thing saying it - but the most bewildering thing is that people actually sit and take time to type this nonsense out

Yep.
Everyone seems to miss that the scenario is completely irrelevant.
The rules apply for the whole of a game, not most of it.
If a rule was broken the appropriate action has to be taken or else the rules become a joke and no-one follows any of them.
No whether or not the GAA cover themselves in glory when it comes to enforcing their own rules is entirely another question, but for the purposes of this game a rule was broken and action had to be take in accordance with the rules as they are written. It's that simple.

[seafoid]

At least the GAA did the decent thing in the end. they defended their own rules.  But forcing Wattys to object before launching the investigation was not right.

[Ulster Frank]

When is Bradley getting married? McFaul could be available for replay?

[Hound]

The rules apply for the whole of a game, not most of it.
If a rule was broken the appropriate action has to be taken or else the rules become a joke and no-one follows any of them.
No whether or not the GAA cover themselves in glory when it comes to enforcing their own rules is entirely another question, but for the purposes of this game a rule was broken and action had to be take in accordance with the rules as they are written. It's that simple.

Of course the rules should apply for the 6 seconds that Crokes had an extra player.

But Crokes followed the rules to a tee. They did exactly what you are supposed to do when making a sub. However, there was no opportunity for the player to go off. He's standing on the goalline focused on the opponent about to hit the 45 and the ref allows the 45 to be taken before anyone can get word to him. The officials are notified of their error, Mullin is notified and immediately vacates as soon as he's told. Then the officials refuse to allow the 45 to be re-taken and the ref includes absolutely no mention of this fiasco in his report.

But the GAA don't want to throw their ref under the bus, no matter how a big a c**k up he made. And they don't want to go through the hoopla of giving the decision that goes against the social media mobs. So they've made the populist decision.

They've taken the easy way out, knowing full well Crokes will win the appeal, but they've done all they could, so the lawyers and judges can get the blame now when the appeals process is finished and it's confirmed that Crokes won the All Ireland by 2 points and that the ref's (multiple) mistakes, while unfortunate, do not warrant punishment for Kilmacud. 

[JoG2]

The rules apply for the whole of a game, not most of it.
If a rule was broken the appropriate action has to be taken or else the rules become a joke and no-one follows any of them.
No whether or not the GAA cover themselves in glory when it comes to enforcing their own rules is entirely another question, but for the purposes of this game a rule was broken and action had to be take in accordance with the rules as they are written. It's that simple.

Of course the rules should apply for the 6 seconds that Crokes had an extra player.

But Crokes followed the rules to a tee. They did exactly what you are supposed to do when making a sub. However, there was no opportunity for the player to go off. He's standing on the goalline focused on the opponent about to hit the 45 and the ref allows the 45 to be taken before anyone can get word to him. The officials are notified of their error, Mullin is notified and immediately vacates as soon as he's told. Then the officials refuse to allow the 45 to be re-taken and the ref includes absolutely no mention of this fiasco in his report.

But the GAA don't want to throw their ref under the bus, no matter how a big a c**k up he made. And they don't want to go through the hoopla of giving the decision that goes against the social media mobs. So they've made the populist decision.

They've taken the easy way out, knowing full well Crokes will win the appeal, but they've done all they could, so the lawyers and judges can get the blame now when the appeals process is finished and it's confirmed that Crokes won the All Ireland by 2 points and that the ref's (multiple) mistakes, while unfortunate, do not warrant punishment for Kilmacud.

Seconds or minutes, they shouldn't have had 16 active players on the pitch

Mullin was literally 2 metres from being off the pitch!!

[Franko]

The rules apply for the whole of a game, not most of it.
If a rule was broken the appropriate action has to be taken or else the rules become a joke and no-one follows any of them.
No whether or not the GAA cover themselves in glory when it comes to enforcing their own rules is entirely another question, but for the purposes of this game a rule was broken and action had to be take in accordance with the rules as they are written. It's that simple.

Of course the rules should apply for the 6 seconds that Crokes had an extra player.

But Crokes followed the rules to a tee. They did exactly what you are supposed to do when making a sub. However, there was no opportunity for the player to go off. He's standing on the goalline focused on the opponent about to hit the 45 and the ref allows the 45 to be taken before anyone can get word to him. The officials are notified of their error, Mullin is notified and immediately vacates as soon as he's told. Then the officials refuse to allow the 45 to be re-taken and the ref includes absolutely no mention of this fiasco in his report.

But the GAA don't want to throw their ref under the bus, no matter how a big a c**k up he made. And they don't want to go through the hoopla of giving the decision that goes against the social media mobs. So they've made the populist decision.

They've taken the easy way out, knowing full well Crokes will win the appeal, but they've done all they could, so the lawyers and judges can get the blame now when the appeals process is finished and it's confirmed that Crokes won the All Ireland by 2 points and that the ref's (multiple) mistakes, while unfortunate, do not warrant punishment for Kilmacud.

Absolutely, except for the bit where you take the player off 

[Ulster Frank]

The rules apply for the whole of a game, not most of it.
If a rule was broken the appropriate action has to be taken or else the rules become a joke and no-one follows any of them.
No whether or not the GAA cover themselves in glory when it comes to enforcing their own rules is entirely another question, but for the purposes of this game a rule was broken and action had to be take in accordance with the rules as they are written. It's that simple.

Of course the rules should apply for the 6 seconds that Crokes had an extra player.

But Crokes followed the rules to a tee. They did exactly what you are supposed to do when making a sub. However, there was no opportunity for the player to go off. He's standing on the goalline focused on the opponent about to hit the 45 and the ref allows the 45 to be taken before anyone can get word to him. The officials are notified of their error, Mullin is notified and immediately vacates as soon as he's told. Then the officials refuse to allow the 45 to be re-taken and the ref includes absolutely no mention of this fiasco in his report.

But the GAA don't want to throw their ref under the bus, no matter how a big a c**k up he made. And they don't want to go through the hoopla of giving the decision that goes against the social media mobs. So they've made the populist decision.

They've taken the easy way out, knowing full well Crokes will win the appeal, but they've done all they could, so the lawyers and judges can get the blame now when the appeals process is finished and it's confirmed that Crokes won the All Ireland by 2 points and that the ref's (multiple) mistakes, while unfortunate, do not warrant punishment for Kilmacud.

Knowning the GAA they will give the referee O'Mahony the replay? 🙄

[Hound]

Seconds or minutes, they shouldn't have had 16 active players on the pitch

Mullin was literally 2 metres from being off the pitch!!

Absolutely, except for the bit where you take the player off 

Amazing insights lads.
How exactly were Crokes supposed to get word to Mullin?

Crokes management are at the half way line. They fully expect the sub to tell Mullin, but the ref allows the quick 45 to proceed before he gets there.

There's not a single player on either side looking to see what's happening on the sideline, including Mullin. They are all 100% concentrating on the Glen man lining up the 45 and thinking about how to create or stop a scoring chance. 

The ref is obliged to stop play until the process is complete. He failed to do that. He failed to rectify it. He failed to mention it in his report. The DRA will lay all the blame on him,  and deservedly so.

[RandyDupree]

Kilmacud probably can't believe their luck that the majority of the public seem to think it was an accident to leave the extra body on the goal line

[seafoid]

Seconds or minutes, they shouldn't have had 16 active players on the pitch

Mullin was literally 2 metres from being off the pitch!!

Absolutely, except for the bit where you take the player off 

Amazing insights lads.
How exactly were Crokes supposed to get word to Mullin?

Crokes management are at the half way line. They fully expect the sub to tell Mullin, but the ref allows the quick 45 to proceed before he gets there.

There's not a single player on either side looking to see what's happening on the sideline, including Mullin. They are all 100% concentrating on the Glen man lining up the 45 and thinking about how to create or stop a scoring chance. 

The ref is obliged to stop play until the process is complete. He failed to do that. He failed to rectify it. He failed to mention it in his report. The DRA will lay all the blame on him,  and deservedly so.

How did Mullin know to go to the goal line? There was no guidance from management and he is a full forward  . Would it be ancestral memory that led him there for 6 seconds ?

[yellowcard]

Those who questioned why Glass and Doherty went straight into Derry training are left with egg on their faces now. Their players are still in full season mode while Kilmacud players are taking foreign holidays. If this gets fixed in the next few weeks Glen will have a great chance to avenge the first defeat.