Poll

AI club final controversy

Yes - Typical Dubs up to no good as usual
30 (19.1%)
No - Typical Nordies causing mischief as usual
21 (13.4%)
Should not have to. GAA HQ should already have called a replay
106 (67.5%)

Total Members Voted: 157

Voting closed: January 26, 2023, 11:37:12 AM

Author Topic: Should An Glenn object?  (Read 14782 times)

AustinPowers

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2023, 01:17:56 PM »
Part of the problem is  that players donít remain on the sideline  until a player comes off.  A lot of the  time itís like the old days  where players ran on with a slip of paper to the ref  before a player slinks off

smort

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2023, 01:18:36 PM »
replay is the only viable option though, forfeiture is too harsh, fine is too lenient. only leaves the replay
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 01:25:17 PM by smort »

Armagh18

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2023, 01:24:23 PM »
A player would always have been in that position had no.14 not been, itís the basics of managing your line.

Of course that means one less person of the 15 not on the 14 yard line not a clear route on goal, thatís clutching especially considering the actual clear routes they had to goal but missed, but had he got a shot off on target then yes there is proper interference.

My view is Glen should put the ball back into Croke Parks court and see what happens

It's not clutching. The fact is you can't know, and one less player out the field would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But that's the point. It absolutely had some effect on the field, and that's why a replay is needed.

There are 3 outcome, KC lose the final Glen win, Replay ordered or a fine, the replay isn't just the only option
fine would have been acceptable if it was just Mannion on the pitch (probably would nevwr have been mentioned) I doubt anyone wants to see the game given to Glen. Replay is by far most likely option.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2023, 01:28:57 PM »
A player would always have been in that position had no.14 not been, itís the basics of managing your line.

Of course that means one less person of the 15 not on the 14 yard line not a clear route on goal, thatís clutching especially considering the actual clear routes they had to goal but missed, but had he got a shot off on target then yes there is proper interference.

My view is Glen should put the ball back into Croke Parks court and see what happens

It's not clutching. The fact is you can't know, and one less player out the field would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But that's the point. It absolutely had some effect on the field, and that's why a replay is needed.

There are 3 outcome, KC lose the final Glen win, Replay ordered or a fine, the replay isn't just the only option
fine would have been acceptable if it was just Mannion on the pitch (probably would nevwr have been mentioned) I doubt anyone wants to see the game given to Glen. Replay is by far most likely option.

It probably is the fair option, but would we be annoyed if KC lost the game and Glen awarded the title? As they broke the rules and Croke can make an example of them by following the rules
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

westbound

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2023, 01:31:44 PM »
A player would always have been in that position had no.14 not been, itís the basics of managing your line.

Of course that means one less person of the 15 not on the 14 yard line not a clear route on goal, thatís clutching especially considering the actual clear routes they had to goal but missed, but had he got a shot off on target then yes there is proper interference.

My view is Glen should put the ball back into Croke Parks court and see what happens


It's not clutching. The fact is you can't know, and one less player out the field would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But that's the point. It absolutely had some effect on the field, and that's why a replay is needed.

There are 3 outcome, KC lose the final Glen win, Replay ordered or a fine, the replay isn't just the only option
There are 4 options per rule 6.44
the 3 you mention plus 'forfeiture of the game without award of the game to the oppossing team'.  This one is only possible if GAA HQ step in them selves. If Glen object, then this isn't a possibility.

In my opinion, taking the game from KC and/or giving it to glen makes no sense. Also, if we believe (which I do) that this was an accidental breach of the rules by KC, then fining them (for what is ultimately an error by the officials) makes no sense.
It's a replay or nothing in my eyes.

I have to say, my initial reaction after the game was let it go, and I think if I was a player I would have to look at it and say that we had 60+mins to win the game and we weren't good enough to win without a possible last minute hail mary goal. So don't object. I'm sure there are several others in my club that would disagree.
BUT, why do we have a rule book at all if GAA HQ aren't going to implement it? HQ should be implementing this rule (and every rule).

screenexile

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2023, 01:36:10 PM »
The anticipation is killing me . . . it's like VAR on steroids!!!

Armagh18

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2023, 01:40:31 PM »
A player would always have been in that position had no.14 not been, itís the basics of managing your line.

Of course that means one less person of the 15 not on the 14 yard line not a clear route on goal, thatís clutching especially considering the actual clear routes they had to goal but missed, but had he got a shot off on target then yes there is proper interference.

My view is Glen should put the ball back into Croke Parks court and see what happens

It's not clutching. The fact is you can't know, and one less player out the field would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But that's the point. It absolutely had some effect on the field, and that's why a replay is needed.

There are 3 outcome, KC lose the final Glen win, Replay ordered or a fine, the replay isn't just the only option
fine would have been acceptable if it was just Mannion on the pitch (probably would nevwr have been mentioned) I doubt anyone wants to see the game given to Glen. Replay is by far most likely option.

It probably is the fair option, but would we be annoyed if KC lost the game and Glen awarded the title? As they broke the rules and Croke can make an example of them by following the rules
Highly doubt there is anyone who would want the game awarded to Glen, not even themselves

seafoid

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2023, 01:43:43 PM »
If it were up to me Iíd consider three things

(1) Was it intentional-ie pulled a fast one hoping no one would notice

(2) Did it make a material difference in the final sequence of play

(3) Did the officials have the ability at the time to intervene but didnít

If the answer to any or all questions  is yes-I would be asking for a replay
1. Impossible to answer but irrelevant, that's why rules are the rules.
2. Indirectly, absolutely but again irrelevant. Rules are the rules and 45 had to be retaken.
3. Yes

The commotion at the end probably worked at like this...

4th official "Ref I've two subs to come on the next break in play" Ref "grand get them off and and on quickly as time is up" 4th official " ones not fully off the pitch yet" ref looks across and see's Manion at the sideline and says "aye I see him there at the side, it's on the blow" 4th Official "think there is another one still to come off" Ref "I'm blowing up anyways, all good"

The ref to be fair would not have noticed that 16 men were actually still involved in the game for that final play, the 4th official probably thought the player went off behind the goals as the sub ran on.

Was the rules broken? Yes, was it on purpose 95% sure it wasn't.  Are Glen wrong to appeal? No. And the main question did it actually change the result, did it have any bearing on the game? No

Fine clubs, and move on
You can't say it had no effect because there is no counterfactual and because it was a one score game. 
And 16 is against the rules.

If Ballyhale had done it there would have been no case because it was a 3 score game.
Lookit

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2023, 01:50:18 PM »
If it were up to me Iíd consider three things

(1) Was it intentional-ie pulled a fast one hoping no one would notice

(2) Did it make a material difference in the final sequence of play

(3) Did the officials have the ability at the time to intervene but didnít

If the answer to any or all questions  is yes-I would be asking for a replay
1. Impossible to answer but irrelevant, that's why rules are the rules.
2. Indirectly, absolutely but again irrelevant. Rules are the rules and 45 had to be retaken.
3. Yes

The commotion at the end probably worked at like this...

4th official "Ref I've two subs to come on the next break in play" Ref "grand get them off and and on quickly as time is up" 4th official " ones not fully off the pitch yet" ref looks across and see's Manion at the sideline and says "aye I see him there at the side, it's on the blow" 4th Official "think there is another one still to come off" Ref "I'm blowing up anyways, all good"

The ref to be fair would not have noticed that 16 men were actually still involved in the game for that final play, the 4th official probably thought the player went off behind the goals as the sub ran on.

Was the rules broken? Yes, was it on purpose 95% sure it wasn't.  Are Glen wrong to appeal? No. And the main question did it actually change the result, did it have any bearing on the game? No

Fine clubs, and move on
You're being very kind to the ref and officials here. If the Glen management are not telling porkies the officials were notified of the error at the time.

We cannot know if the rule was broken on purpose. If it was, then forfeiture of the game would be the appropriate penalty reading between the lines in rule book.

And how can you possibly say it had no bearing on result. 45 should have been retaken. Glen had just created a goal chance. KC literally lost last years final with last kick of game. There was a minute to go when the original 45 was awarded.

Franko

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2023, 01:57:29 PM »
If it were up to me Iíd consider three things

(1) Was it intentional-ie pulled a fast one hoping no one would notice

(2) Did it make a material difference in the final sequence of play

(3) Did the officials have the ability at the time to intervene but didnít

If the answer to any or all questions  is yes-I would be asking for a replay
1. Impossible to answer but irrelevant, that's why rules are the rules.
2. Indirectly, absolutely but again irrelevant. Rules are the rules and 45 had to be retaken.
3. Yes

The commotion at the end probably worked at like this...

4th official "Ref I've two subs to come on the next break in play" Ref "grand get them off and and on quickly as time is up" 4th official " ones not fully off the pitch yet" ref looks across and see's Manion at the sideline and says "aye I see him there at the side, it's on the blow" 4th Official "think there is another one still to come off" Ref "I'm blowing up anyways, all good"

The ref to be fair would not have noticed that 16 men were actually still involved in the game for that final play, the 4th official probably thought the player went off behind the goals as the sub ran on.

Was the rules broken? Yes, was it on purpose 95% sure it wasn't.  Are Glen wrong to appeal? No. And the main question did it actually change the result, did it have any bearing on the game? No

Fine clubs, and move on

Horse shit.  Totally wrong.

Of course it had a bearing on the game.

How much of a bearing - well none of us can or will ever know.

BennyHarp

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2023, 02:04:57 PM »
In my view, Kilmacud were shithousing by putting on 3 subs to cause as much delay as possible in the 62nd minute. It backfired as the officials messed up by not ensuring the lads went off the pitch in the confusion surrounding so many subs in such a short space of time. Glenn are the only innocent party and shouldn't be put in the position whereby the weight of the decision is placed on them and will face the accusations of being sore losers if they appeal. I think they definitely must appeal and make the GAA officials take responsibility for their own mistakes and own lack of leadership in the aftermath.
That was never a square ball!!

seafoid

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2023, 02:15:46 PM »
An Ghleann should definitely object to the spelling

An Glenn is different
https://youtu.be/qZ9qZCrlZ_w
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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2023, 02:18:51 PM »
In my view, Kilmacud were shithousing by putting on 3 subs to cause as much delay as possible in the 62nd minute. It backfired as the officials messed up by not ensuring the lads went off the pitch in the confusion surrounding so many subs in such a short space of time. Glenn are the only innocent party and shouldn't be put in the position whereby the weight of the decision is placed on them and will face the accusations of being sore losers if they appeal. I think they definitely must appeal and make the GAA officials take responsibility for their own mistakes and own lack of leadership in the aftermath.
I feel a bit sorry for KC tbh. They're entitled to make subs. It's one they desperately wanted after last year. I'm sure they'd much rather have defended that 45 again than go through all this sour taste and possible replay. But Glen were wronged, there's no question. Rule book gives 3 penalties. Forfeiture, replay or fine. Forfeiture would be way too harsh. Fine maybe too lenient. Replay, again a real pain and harsh on Crokes but ticks a lot of boxes.

seafoid

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM »
In my view, Kilmacud were shithousing by putting on 3 subs to cause as much delay as possible in the 62nd minute. It backfired as the officials messed up by not ensuring the lads went off the pitch in the confusion surrounding so many subs in such a short space of time. Glenn are the only innocent party and shouldn't be put in the position whereby the weight of the decision is placed on them and will face the accusations of being sore losers if they appeal. I think they definitely must appeal and make the GAA officials take responsibility for their own mistakes and own lack of leadership in the aftermath.
It was definite shithousery. I imagine they were paranoid about a late goal from a high, lobbing ball.
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imtommygunn

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Re: Should An Glenn object?
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2023, 02:31:55 PM »
Yeah I agree. KC get a lot of flak because of Walsh but the two things should not be confused. It's not really their fault this either. Yes they were f**king round with subs to kill time but who doesn't do that at that critical stage of games.