Division 2 2024

[armaghniac]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

[Itchy]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

Thats not a bad idea.

[Dreadnought]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

[armaghniac]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

You'd probably have to just say that you have to beat a Div 1 or Div 2 team to avoid some kind of odd situation about teams at the bottom of Div 2.

[seafoid]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

You'd probably have to just say that you have to beat a Div 1 or Div 2 team to avoid some kind of odd situation about teams at the bottom of Div 2.

They should dump the league and play the provincial championships now and play full open draw Championship. The provincial link to Sam is way too convoluted.

[Dreadnought]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

You'd probably have to just say that you have to beat a Div 1 or Div 2 team to avoid some kind of odd situation about teams at the bottom of Div 2.

They should dump the league and play the provincial championships now and play full open draw Championship. The provincial link to Sam is way too convoluted.

I was never a fan of linking League to Championship the way they have done it as it rewards results in the wrong competition, even above the one you're currently playing in. Saying that, by unlinking provincials, they kill that too. The current system with a few tweaks would be fine.

The recommendation above to weight beating D1/D2 teams better in Championship fixes a major fault in this - as seen last year and this year when some teams might waltz to a Connacht or Munster final without playing anyone of consequence. For better or worse, the provincials are not equal, so we do need rules to ensure we have balance in qualification. Be that seeding the draws (ensuring at least one D1/D2 side is on each side of the draw, meaning to reach a final you need to be one or beat one), or the likes of above, or a combination of a few things. It's not right as it is, we all can see that.

[seafoid]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

You'd probably have to just say that you have to beat a Div 1 or Div 2 team to avoid some kind of odd situation about teams at the bottom of Div 2.

They should dump the league and play the provincial championships now and play full open draw Championship. The provincial link to Sam is way too convoluted.

I was never a fan of linking League to Championship the way they have done it as it rewards results in the wrong competition, even above the one you're currently playing in. Saying that, by unlinking provincials, they kill that too. The current system with a few tweaks would be fine.

The recommendation above to weight beating D1/D2 teams better in Championship fixes a major fault in this - as seen last year and this year when some teams might waltz to a Connacht or Munster final without playing anyone of consequence. For better or worse, the provincials are not equal, so we do need rules to ensure we have balance in qualification. Be that seeding the draws (ensuring at least one D1/D2 side is on each side of the draw, meaning to reach a final you need to be one or beat one), or the likes of above, or a combination of a few things. It's not right as it is, we all can see that.

Allowing provincial winners into the competition doesn't really change anything because the Sam Maguire  isn't based on optimal competition. It favours the stronger counties and always has.

[Dreadnought]

It should only be provincial winners making the All-Ireland if they don't qualify automatically through league position

Disagree. Why reward League form from months before against reaching a final? We still need to reward Championship and getting to a final is still something. Like my own team Cavan could beat Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry but lose to Armagh in an Ulster final and miss out on Sam due to League results from 3 months before? Beat 3 Division 1 teams in Championship but still miss out due to League? Nah...

Perhaps the rule could be modified that Provincial finalists would only get into Sam if they had beaten a team in Sam en route to that final. This would have ruled out Sligo last year, but would likely continue to ensure that the Ulster finalists would qualify as you could not reach the final without beating a team in Sam and would still reward any giant killing teams in other provinces.

That's a fair idea. I like it. Definitely a way to reward Championship results that matter, while preventing handy runs to finals and pushing others out who may deserve it more overall

You'd probably have to just say that you have to beat a Div 1 or Div 2 team to avoid some kind of odd situation about teams at the bottom of Div 2.

They should dump the league and play the provincial championships now and play full open draw Championship. The provincial link to Sam is way too convoluted.

I was never a fan of linking League to Championship the way they have done it as it rewards results in the wrong competition, even above the one you're currently playing in. Saying that, by unlinking provincials, they kill that too. The current system with a few tweaks would be fine.

The recommendation above to weight beating D1/D2 teams better in Championship fixes a major fault in this - as seen last year and this year when some teams might waltz to a Connacht or Munster final without playing anyone of consequence. For better or worse, the provincials are not equal, so we do need rules to ensure we have balance in qualification. Be that seeding the draws (ensuring at least one D1/D2 side is on each side of the draw, meaning to reach a final you need to be one or beat one), or the likes of above, or a combination of a few things. It's not right as it is, we all can see that.

Allowing provincial winners into the competition doesn't really change anything because the Sam Maguire  isn't based on optimal competition. It favours the stronger counties and always has.

It changes it if you unlink and then there's no benefit to winning it. Then the stronger counties ignore it. To keep the provincials, you still need some carrot

[Rossfan]

Obvious tweak is to only allow Provincial CHAMPIONS automatic entry to Sam (also previous year's Sam and Tailteann Champions).
Then go down the League till you get 16.


PS I'm not sure how we'd fix Seafín's problem that only strong teams win Sam.....

[seafoid]

Obvious tweak is to only allow Provincial CHAMPIONS automatic entry to Sam (also previous year's Sam and Tailteann Champions).
Then go down the League till you get 16.


PS I'm not sure how we'd fix Seafín's problem that only strong teams win Sam.....

When is the last time a BMW county south of  Donegal won Sam ?  Offaly was the last beag bideach county to win Sam and that was over 40 years ago. The GAA isn''t interested in competition like other sports are- 6N, US football, even the EPL. Fans don't seem bothered either. In February everyone thinks it could happen this year.

Dublin and Kerry win over 50% of titles.

It is difficult to free football fans from the chains they revere.

[Dreadnought]

Obvious tweak is to only allow Provincial CHAMPIONS automatic entry to Sam (also previous year's Sam and Tailteann Champions).
Then go down the League till you get 16.


PS I'm not sure how we'd fix Seafín's problem that only strong teams win Sam.....

Haven't we already established that you'd be rewarding League results from many months before, but not actual Championship held right there and then? I don't get this logic of League being so important as to let it lead a Championship more than the actual Championship currently being played

[Rossfan]

Kerry, Donegal and Mayowestros with their economies, logistics, distances and other disadvantages shouldn't be top football Counties while Kildare and Meath should be.

What do you propose?
Handicap system? Big Counties start games on a minus score, small ones on a plus score?
Set up area teams based on 100k populations? What about the Hurley Counties then?


PS Dreadnought,  the problem is two of the Provincials are non events.

[Dreadnought]

Obvious tweak is to only allow Provincial CHAMPIONS automatic entry to Sam (also previous year's Sam and Tailteann Champions).
Then go down the League till you get 16.


PS I'm not sure how we'd fix Seafín's problem that only strong teams win Sam.....

When is the last time a BMW county south of  Donegal won Sam ?  Offaly was the last beag bideach county to win Sam and that was over 40 years ago. The GAA isn''t interested in competition like other sports are- 6N, US football, even the EPL. Fans don't seem bothered either. In February everyone thinks it could happen this year.

Dublin and Kerry win over 50% of titles.

It is difficult to free football fans from the chains they revere.

I agree. There needs to be more done. For all the talk of split Championship being great, it actually widens the divide. Lower teams won't get better by only playing each other. gaps widen this way. I believe this started happening when we went the 4 division model in 2008, as it allows the better teams to stay up top, play each other all the time, and then pull the ladder up. it's very hard for teams to break into that and stay there. I think the old A and B model works best. Split Div1 and 2 over 1A and 1B, and same for next down. Promote 4 teams up and down and give actual opportunities for mixing each year. Rework Championship after provincials to include all, and then split it some way halfway through on results so top go to Sam, rest to Tailteann and run them off. We will never progress the game properly with this current model of top teams playing themselves only apart from the rare provincial match

[Dreadnought]

Kerry, Donegal and Mayowestros with their economies, logistics, distances and other disadvantages shouldn't be top football Counties while Kildare and Meath should be.

What do you propose?
Handicap system? Big Counties start games on a minus score, small ones on a plus score?
Set up area teams based on 100k populations? What about the Hurley Counties then?


PS Dreadnought,  the problem is two of the Provincials are non events.

Yes but by same means 2 of them are (and 1 has potential for getting back on track if Leinster teams get their act together). You can seed from them so they still have worth

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Obvious tweak is to only allow Provincial CHAMPIONS automatic entry to Sam (also previous year's Sam and Tailteann Champions).
Then go down the League till you get 16.


PS I'm not sure how we'd fix Seafín's problem that only strong teams win Sam.....

When is the last time a BMW county south of  Donegal won Sam ?  Offaly was the last beag bideach county to win Sam and that was over 40 years ago. The GAA isn''t interested in competition like other sports are- 6N, US football, even the EPL. Fans don't seem bothered either. In February everyone thinks it could happen this year.

Dublin and Kerry win over 50% of titles.

It is difficult to free football fans from the chains they revere.

I agree. There needs to be more done. For all the talk of split Championship being great, it actually widens the divide. Lower teams won't get better by only playing each other. gaps widen this way. I believe this started happening when we went the 4 division model in 2008, as it allows the better teams to stay up top, play each other all the time, and then pull the ladder up. it's very hard for teams to break into that and stay there. I think the old A and B model works best. Split Div1 and 2 over 1A and 1B, and same for next down. Promote 4 teams up and down and give actual opportunities for mixing each year. Rework Championship after provincials to include all, and then split it some way halfway through on results so top go to Sam, rest to Tailteann and run them off. We will never progress the game properly with this current model of top teams playing themselves only apart from the rare provincial match

The way the leagues are now is a brilliant system.

If we went back to the the 1A and 1B formats interest levels would greatly reduce. Sure why not just throw everyone into division 1 and call them 1A B C & D.

Derry have shown what can be done with the correct structures in place going from Division 4 to division 1. Louth something similar even Limerick spent a a year in division 2.

Unfortunately there will always be some predominately hurling counties languishing in division 4 but a lot of counties have spent a period in the top 2 divisions since the system has been brought in.