Lee Keegan has just retired so..
you answered the question now please close the thread
Apart from the obvious man, good few other Mayo greats, Andy Moran, Ciaran McDonald. Mattie Forde honourable mention. From Armagh Aaron Kernan a class player who never won one with the county either.
Frank McGuigan was some player before the accident. Tyrone captain at 19.
Keegan may be the greatest in the modern age with an honourable mention to A Kernan but will we ever really be able to answer the question? I was born in 1980 so I could only really talk about players from the 90s onwards. Actually Im gonna change my mind. Hoolly is the greatest to never win one ;)
Shorty Treanor.
Seán Marty Lockhart
Benny Coulter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YGx0ENc4ZQ
Ciarán Whelan.
Jim McKeever
TEAMS win All Irelands.
Quote from: thejuice on January 10, 2023, 02:22:38 PM
Ciarán Whelan.
Proper piss take answer. No surprise that Dublin bookended All Ireland's around his career. No mobility and even less ability.
RedHand88
The KING
Big Frank McGuigan!
Frank McGuigan hands down. Honourable mention to the great Iggy Jones.
Has to be lots of great hurlers too Ciaran Carey springs to mind
Ciaran Carey all day. Gary Kirby too.
Dermot Earley Snr
Tommy Murphy and it's not even close.
In hurling, probably Ken McGrath.
Val Daly
Quote from: Aristo 60 on January 10, 2023, 02:06:20 PM
Shorty Treanor.
Bennys goal scoring feats were unbelievable and he deserved one.
I would put Tommy McGovern ahead of Shorty
Shorty could have had two yet he fell out with management.
Mjchael Meehan
Brian Talty
Joe Rabbitte
Eugene Cloonan
Ollie Canning
Damian Hayes
Kevin O'Brien was a fantastic player for Wicklow and of course Baltinglass.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2023, 04:40:35 PM
Eugene Cloonan
I wouldn't say so. Not consistent enough.
Dan Shanahan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peAFdYkxbVo&t=851s
John Mullane
Has to be The Maestro.
Ger Loughnane
There has to be a dub or 2 in there from 83 to 95 ?
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/top-five-gaa-players-never-won-ireland-280332 (https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/top-five-gaa-players-never-won-ireland-280332)
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 10, 2023, 10:04:13 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/top-five-gaa-players-never-won-ireland-280332 (https://www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/top-five-gaa-players-never-won-ireland-280332)
Sean Marty Lockhart has to be up there. Superb defender, always marked the best forwards.
Frank McGuigan, Dermot Earley Snr,
Ciaran Whelan
Tommy Joe Gilmore
Liam O'Neill
John Tobin
Declan Browne
Oisin Mullan
Paddy Bradley
speaking of great players is there anywhere that did a greatest player from every county even if out of date.
Ruairi Canavan
Ross Munnelly
Brehany has a list.
Dermot number 1 (should be Gerry O'Malley )
Matty Ruane
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Larry Reilly has to be on the list
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
It's an National list, not a parochial Ulster list.
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
There could likely be a team of names from each of the 00's, 90's, 80's etc who should have had an AI.
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 11:47:15 AM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
It's an National list, not a parochial Ulster list.
I'd agree with that, but just trying to balance the Connacht bias in Breheny's 20.
Quote from: LC on January 11, 2023, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Ciaran Mcdonald was the Serge Blanco of Gaelic Football. He was always thinking a few steps ahead. He wouldn't be at home on Brehony list
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Breheny is taking the piss himself me thinks.
Eugene McKenna would very near the top of my list
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2023, 10:26:36 AM
Brehany has a list.
Dermot number 1 (should be Gerry O'Malley )
Gerry O'Malley fine dual player in his day.
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: LC on January 11, 2023, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Ciaran Mcdonald was the Serge Blanco of Gaelic Football. He was always thinking a few steps ahead. He wouldn't be at home on Brehony list
Retirement and highlight reels have been kind to MacDonald. He won one solitary all star despite reaching 3 finals. Alan Dillon won two for example, as did James Horan. Zero intercounty championship motm awards I've been realiably informed by a mayo stats nerd.
Putting him in the "greatest to never win" conversation alongside Keegan or Higgins does an injustice to those two. Never mind Dermot Earley snr or Declan Browne
Quote from: Manning18 on January 11, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: LC on January 11, 2023, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Ciaran Mcdonald was the Serge Blanco of Gaelic Football. He was always thinking a few steps ahead. He wouldn't be at home on Brehony list
Retirement and highlight reels have been kind to MacDonald. He won one solitary all star despite reaching 3 finals. Alan Dillon won two for example, as did James Horan. Zero intercounty championship motm awards I've been realiably informed by a mayo stats nerd.
Putting him in the "greatest to never win" conversation alongside Keegan or Higgins does an injustice to those two. Never mind Dermot Earley snr or Declan Browne
He was a joy to watch. The Ronaldinho of GAA.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on January 11, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: LC on January 11, 2023, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Ciaran Mcdonald was the Serge Blanco of Gaelic Football. He was always thinking a few steps ahead. He wouldn't be at home on Brehony list
Retirement and highlight reels have been kind to MacDonald. He won one solitary all star despite reaching 3 finals. Alan Dillon won two for example, as did James Horan. Zero intercounty championship motm awards I've been realiably informed by a mayo stats nerd.
Putting him in the "greatest to never win" conversation alongside Keegan or Higgins does an injustice to those two. Never mind Dermot Earley snr or Declan Browne
He was a joy to watch. The Ronaldinho of GAA.
You can be superbly skillful and a joy to watch and not be overall that effective. Your own Jamie Clarke has done things with a ball ive never seen anybody else do but you wouldn't in your right mind have him down as a better player than Stevey mcdonald or McConville.
Dillon was more effective for Mayo. Keegan was 3 times more effective than both. I don't think you can include any of them in the conversation with Keegan for this specific title
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 11, 2023, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on January 11, 2023, 05:10:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 11, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: LC on January 11, 2023, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Surely Ciaran MacDonald should be on this list.
Ciaran Mcdonald was the Serge Blanco of Gaelic Football. He was always thinking a few steps ahead. He wouldn't be at home on Brehony list
Retirement and highlight reels have been kind to MacDonald. He won one solitary all star despite reaching 3 finals. Alan Dillon won two for example, as did James Horan. Zero intercounty championship motm awards I've been realiably informed by a mayo stats nerd.
Putting him in the "greatest to never win" conversation alongside Keegan or Higgins does an injustice to those two. Never mind Dermot Earley snr or Declan Browne
He was a joy to watch. The Ronaldinho of GAA.
Maverick footballer, his passing range and accuracy to pin point a pass on the outside of his boot was as good as I've seen from any player over the last few decades.
Greatest not to is strange. Losing usually means not good enough. It also means not doing the iterations. Losing teams tend to break up faster
Most players good enough win the All Ireland. You need to get to a certain level to do so. Usually teams with the right level win eventually. Meath as a traditional winner wouldn't have anyone of note for the last decade. They will when they have their next good team.
The 2 teams that reached the level over several seasons while not winning anything were Mayo and Waterford. Sometimes teams who meet all the criteria but come up.against exceptional teams racking up titles.
And then there are the exceptional players on mediocre teams. The pool of glorious losers is small.
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
This list is confined to the past 50 years I think. From a Galway POV, no TJ Gilmore, Val Daly or Michael Meehan to say the least. Ciaran MacDonald too. Dessie Dolan shouldn't be near that list, plenty of better others that were also unsuccessful.
To be honest Enda Muldoon and Paddy Bradley are better than a few On that list
John Galvin was a very good player
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:43:31 PM
To be honest Enda Muldoon and Paddy Bradley are better than a few On that list
Absolutely
Andy Moran and Conor McManus too
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
Ain't got the forwards, hence why they didn't win a couple in the first place
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
They got beaten by a poor Galway side in Connacht that year, needed a dodgy penalty to get over Fermanagh in the qualifiers and then got the handiest available quarter and semi draw. I think some misconstrue some Dublin underperformance at times with opposition greatness. That 2016 drawn game was the worst Dublin performance of that 8 year stretch, including 2014.
2013 version of Mayo was by far their best imo. That was the one year they absolutely swatted everyone else aside in the way Dublin did year in year out
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 09:46:44 PM
John Galvin was a very good player
Beast of a man. Bettered dara O'Se several times. His predecessor quane, maybe overlapped a bit, was that kind of level too.
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2023, 01:21:05 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Breheny is taking the piss himself me thinks.
some of them never got near a provincial medal never mind an all Ireland
I rather do greatest player by county, it show who in fans opinion were their greatest player to come out of, some of the weaker counties.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2023, 10:30:08 PM
Ain't got the forwards, hence why they didn't win a couple in the first place
The habit of conceding sloppy goals in each final was as unhelpful.
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2023, 01:21:05 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
Breheny is taking the piss himself me thinks.
The difference with Keegan's is that, year in and year out for a decade he put it up to (and in most cases prevailed) against the best players on the best team the game has ever seen
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
Lol. I stand corrected and cannot issue a reply
Tommy Conroy
In honesty in relation to Keegan I have him on my greatest team of all time along with Moyihan and McCarthy in the half back line. He just edges out Martin O'Connell in the past year or 2, who I had as my No. 7. I know Keegan played alot, at 5, but Mccarthy got that position nailed (In front of 2 O'Se's).
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 10:28:24 AM
Tommy Conroy
Has an all star and and all ireland with Dublin in 83. 😉
Quote from: Silver hill on January 12, 2023, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2023, 10:28:24 AM
Tommy Conroy
Has an all star and and all ireland with Dublin in 83. 😉
There you are. I was gonna get caught out at some point.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
Quote from: seafoid on January 10, 2023, 12:33:31 PM
Lee Keegan has just retired so..
I think Keegan is a great shout for the best player never to win an All Ireland. He would be on my all time fifteen.
These threads always invite different suggestions, so for me, others to consider would include Paddy Moriarty, Anthony McGurk and Nudie Hughes - players who won All Stars as defenders and attackers. Also mention Frank McGuigan and the great Cork full back of the seventies, Kevin Kehilly.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 12, 2023, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 12, 2023, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards
Moran, Cillian O'Connor, McDonald and Tommy Conroy? Maybe send Mattie Forde as well to be safe.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
Not even remotely close on paper for me.
Quote from: mouview on January 11, 2023, 09:31:51 PM
Quote from: Estimator on January 11, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Breheny's List:
1. Dermot Early
2. Lee Keegan
3. Mickey Kearins
4. Nudie Hughes
5. Glenn Ryan
6. Kevin O'Brien
7. Eugene McKenna
8. Declan Browne
9. Joe Kernan
10. Mattie Forde
11. John Galvin
12. Paddy Moriarty
13. Peter McGinnity
14. Tony McManus
15. Dessie Dolan
16. Harry Keegan
17. Liam McHale
18. Keith Higgins
19. Noel Roche
20. Paul Barden
Though I'd have the likes of Benny Coulter, Barry Owens, Paddy Bradley, Enda Muldoon, Sean Lockhart before a good few men on that list.
This list is confined to the past 50 years I think. From a Galway POV, no TJ Gilmore, Val Daly or Michael Meehan to say the least. Ciaran MacDonald too. Dessie Dolan shouldn't be near that list, plenty of better others that were also unsuccessful.
He only included players from a particular list of counties that never won Sam in the modern era (unless after the player in question retired eg Armagh.) No Meath, Cork, Down, Dub, Kerry, Galway, Offaly, Derry or Tyrone. It's like a beal bocht list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Zh0CE-lzA
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 12, 2023, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards
Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.
2021 - 2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 - 2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13
Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 12, 2023, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards
Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.
2021 - 2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 - 2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13
Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?
Jesus that 2016 defeat must be fairly sickening. Far better team that day only for the own goals.
If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 12, 2023, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2023, 12:08:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 11, 2023, 10:08:58 PM
To be honest I reckon Mayo of 2016, no AI winners among them, would take the best of the rest in a match.
In a semi final, sure. Not in a final though.
If they called it a League final where they played the Best of the Rest.......they'd have a tiny bit better of a chance of winning!
Some groups are destined never to win, no matter how good they are.
The weight of sealing the deal gets bigger with every disappointment.
It has to happen if they get say 3 decent forwards
Scorelines in finals Mayo was involved in the last decade.
2021 - 2-14 to 0-15
2020 - 2-14 to 0-15
2017 - 1-17 to 1-16
2016 - 1-15 to 1-14
2016 - 2-9 to 0-15
2013 - 2-12 to 1-14
2012 - 2-11 to 0-13
Lack of scoring or conceding too many goals the main issue?
Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.
The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.
Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 03:43:07 PM
If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.
Or Murphy. He's a Mayo man anyway isn't he
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 03:43:07 PM
If Mayo had Conor McManus for any one of those cliffhangers they would have won.
Or Murphy. He's a Mayo man anyway isn't he
They had Cillian O'Connor who's finished championship top scorer on a few occasions. Andy Moran who wasn't too shabby either. Including footballer of the year one season.
Quote from: Manning18 on January 13, 2023, 03:46:44 PM
Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.
The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.
Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once
Mayo more than played their role in the higher winning scoring totals
Look at the average conceded for winners in finals over the last decade. Mayos habit of conceding goals many of them sloppy has been a big issue that was never sorted out.
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 03:59:47 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on January 13, 2023, 03:46:44 PM
Bit of an oxymoron there though? The last 10 AI winners have scored 20,20,20,21,23,20,18,12,15,18,17.
The two outliers there are a monsoon (2015) and the most defensive AI of all time (2014). Take those out and the average winning score is 19.66 points.
Mayo have reached that total 0 times in 7 finals. They only got over 17 once
Mayo more than played their role in the higher winning scoring totals
Look at the average conceded for winners in finals over the last decade. Mayos habit of conceding goals many of them sloppy has been a big issue that was never sorted out.
I don't think there was a choice tbh. What made Mayo good, and also why their matches were usually entertaining, was because they needed to go man to man and make the game chaotic. Partly because they had very good man to man markers but mainly because their forwards were bang average. If mayo played the cagey game of 4 forwards up and sweepers etc, the results would be, and indeed were, shambolic. The 3 consecutive defeats to Galway in Connacht were evidence of that because Kevin Walsh realised that if you clogged the game up effectively, ultimately he trusted that he had the few forwards who could score while being overmanned and without space and Mayo didn't. And that's even with Mayo having a far better overall team at the time
Mayo needed all 6 forwards in attack, and more importantly, good runners from defence, to create scores. That's always going to lead to counter attack or high ball goal opportunities for the opposition. Thats the trade off they needed to make and accepted.
Dublin, to their credit but also perhaps stupidity, decided to play Mayo man to man in all those games. It suited Mayo perfectly and it made the games entertaining, and ultimately Dublin trusted that they'd get enough goal chances that way to win, which they did just about. You are also dancing with fire playing that was against Dublin though, which we ultiamtely saw in both the 2015 replay and 2019 when they tore mayo apart and put 3 past them
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
no but would they ever have been in a better position?
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
no but would they ever have been in a better position?
So in reality Mayo were not good enough. They needed a huge slice of luck. As you said Mayo's best chance of winning an AI against Dublin was being a man up.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
no but would they ever have been in a better position?
So in reality Mayo were not good enough. They needed a huge slice of luck. As you said Mayo's best chance of winning an AI against Dublin was being a man up.
ah ok chief
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
no but would they ever have been in a better position?
So in reality Mayo were not good enough. They needed a huge slice of luck. As you said Mayo's best chance of winning an AI against Dublin was being a man up.
Not fair to say they weren't good enough. Was nothing between those teams. Dubs got their luck with the 2 own goals/Mayo shooting themselves in the foot with red cards, handy scores missed etc etc.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
n
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
Kerry won 5 handy all Irelands by beating Mayo and Cork between 1997 and 2009 .
The 2 teams didn't turn up in most of those matches. It's about psychology. This is what Cyril Farrell was on about.
There is no way that Mayo were not good enough for all of the finals they lost.
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 09:35:09 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
n
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
Kerry won 5 handy all Irelands by beating Mayo and Cork between 1997 and 2009 .
The 2 teams didn't turn up in most of those matches. It's about psychology. This is what Cyril Farrell was on about.
There is no way that Mayo were not good enough for all of the finals they lost.
The 04 and 06 Mayo teams were probably miles away from that Kerry team tbf. Psychology probably came into it in 2012 against Donegal and in a couple of the tight finals win the Dubs.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 02:46:21 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 13, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 13, 2023, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2023, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 13, 2023, 04:34:43 PM
Bit of myth that Mayo went man to man to be honest but they certainly had good man markers especially the recently retired Lee Keegan. Both got numbers back when they needed to and attacked with pace in those Dublin and Mayo finals however the amount of switching off with the concession of careless goals will make Mayo look back in anger as much as anything IMO.
Cyril Farrell on getting the Galway hurlers over the line and how Mayo footballer are so similar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYSAsPqg1A&t=3112s
I'd liken Mayo's plight to Waterford. Waterford had their golden generation of players the same time as one of the best (if not the best)Kilkenny teams.
The problem predates Horan. The 04/06 sequence was another example
From the 70s to the early 90s Connacht teams could not beat Leinster or Munster teams at AISF stage. until Mayo beat Kerry in 1996.
It was the same in club football. Could not win an all Ireland. Clann na nGael lost 5. This was ended when Corofin won in 98, opening the floodgates.
The Galway hurlers ended the hurling hoodoo in 1980.
Kiltormer broke the club hurling duck in 1992. Afterwards Galway teams won another 12.
Mayo is the last great unfinished job.
The 04/06 Mayo teams were not in any way good enough to win an All Ireland. Tyrone and Kerry were a good bit ahead in that era!
2017 was mayos to win , after the Keegan goal they got a free in front of the posts and the dubs were getting a man sent off unfortunately Vaughn got a rush of blood and it all blew up , hard to win after that with the same players.
So basically that Mayo team needed to be a man up in order to beat Dublin?
no but would they ever have been in a better position?
So in reality Mayo were not good enough. They needed a huge slice of luck. As you said Mayo's best chance of winning an AI against Dublin was being a man up.
Not fair to say they weren't good enough. Was nothing between those teams. Dubs got their luck with the 2 own goals/Mayo shooting themselves in the foot with red cards, handy scores missed etc etc.
Between 2013 and 2020 Mayo met Dublin 8 times in the Championship their record was 0-2-6.
Between 2013 and 2020 Mayo met Dublin 8 times in the League their record was 0-1-7
So the record in League and Championship from 2013 to 2020 is 0-3-13.
There is a Myth here that these games were a rivalry, they were a procession of Dublin winning.
Yeah the Dubs cruised home in all of those games Mayo shouldnt have bothered showing up...
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:40:54 AM
Yeah the Dubs cruised home in all of those games Mayo shouldnt have bothered showing up...
In fairness they did their best against a Superior team with one of the strongest benches in the history of Gaelic football who got to play all their finals (and semi-finals) at home. Sometimes you are just not the good enough at the era you emerge into.
Maybe Mayo weren't good enough in 04/06 and came up against the greatest ever in 2013-20 but does Mayo not have any agency ?
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 02:11:04 PM
Maybe Mayo weren't good enough in 04/06 and came up against the greatest ever in 2013-20 but does Mayo not have any agency ?
Mayo 2013-17 pulled out all the stops. They put less value in the connacht championship to peak for September. They played in 2nd gear through countless Leagues campaigns, just doing enough for Div 1 survival. Dublin just burned them off in the end. No wins in the League or Championship from 2013 to 2020 had to have had an affect as time went on!
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 02:11:04 PM
Maybe Mayo weren't good enough in 04/06 and came up against the greatest ever in 2013-20 but does Mayo not have any agency ?
They weren't good enough in 2004/06. 2013-20 included championship exits to Kerry, Kildare and Dublin wasn't overly great in the 2013,2016,2017 finals. Games there to be won by Mayo however found different ways to lose them and that will hurt the most as the years past by and another good player such as Lee Keegan retires.
Mayo were good enough to a extent. They had 13 players capable of winning an all Ireland, they lacked a few to give extra support to Moran, O'Connor up front. If one of Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, etc had been playing for Mayo they won a couple of those all-Irelands.
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 03:43:20 PM
Mayo were good enough to a extent. They had 13 players capable of winnjbg a all Ireland, they lacked a few to give extra support to Moran, O'Connor up front. If one of Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, etc had been playing for Mayo they won a couple of those all-Irelands.
They were good enough to
stay with Dublin, something other teams of that era struggled with. When the game was there to be closed out, Dublin had the bench to do it. At no stage in the 2013-20 did Mayo hold a decent lead going into the last 5 minutes of the game where Dublin had to chase the game.
The one game I thought they were hard done by was a game where it was near over, draw I think at the time, where Small committed a fairly obvious free, in scoring distance, and the ref ignored it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 05:08:07 PM
The one game I thought they were hard done by was a game where it was near over, draw I think at the time, where Small committed a fairly obvious free, in scoring distance, and the ref ignored it.
Sadly too many refs got free holidays off the back of Dublin wins.
2014 was a very hard to loss to take, I imagine.
Quote from: OrchardOrange on January 14, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 05:08:07 PM
The one game I thought they were hard done by was a game where it was near over, draw I think at the time, where Small committed a fairly obvious free, in scoring distance, and the ref ignored it.
Sadly too many refs got free holidays off the back of Dublin wins.
Can you name them and where they went to?
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 18, 2023, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: OrchardOrange on January 14, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 05:08:07 PM
The one game I thought they were hard done by was a game where it was near over, draw I think at the time, where Small committed a fairly obvious free, in scoring distance, and the ref ignored it.
Sadly too many refs got free holidays off the back of Dublin wins.
Can you name them and where they went to?
:D
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
I thought the 2015 semi-final was indicative of that Mayo team.
They did brilliantly to come from 7 points down to draw level with Dublin, then Diarmuid Connolly got a red card and Alan Brogan got injured so it was 15 v 13 with a few minutes left. Instead of using their 2 extra men to go hell-bent on getting the winning scores, they held back, content that they had come from 7 points down to draw level. They had too much respect for Dublin, why would any team be happy to take a draw against a team down two players?
It was the same in many other games, where in the 4th quarter they often did well to come back into games or draw level, but never having that edge to really go for it once level late in the game.
The exception being the 2021 semi-final, but then fading badly in the final where the real difference between the team for most of the game was the taking of goal chances, but then Mayo deflated in the final stretch.
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
They have 3 all Irelands, all won before Tyrone won anything I think
If Tyrone could drop the mantle of perennial chokers so can Mayo.
Quote from: blanketattack on January 18, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
I thought the 2015 semi-final was indicative of that Mayo team.
They did brilliantly to come from 7 points down to draw level with Dublin, then Diarmuid Connolly got a red card and Alan Brogan got injured so it was 15 v 13 with a few minutes left. Instead of using their 2 extra men to go hell-bent on getting the winning scores, they held back, content that they had come from 7 points down to draw level. They had too much respect for Dublin, why would any team be happy to take a draw against a team down two players?
It was the same in many other games, where in the 4th quarter they often did well to come back into games or draw level, but never having that edge to really go for it once level late in the game.
The exception being the 2021 semi-final, but then fading badly in the final where the real difference between the team for most of the game was the taking of goal chances, but then Mayo deflated in the final stretch.
You do know that the ball was in play for
ABOUT 30 SECONDS after Connolly and Brogan incidents before the referee blew the final whistle?
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2023, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
They have 3 all Irelands, all won before Tyrone won anything I think
If Tyrone could drop the mantle of perennial chokers so can Mayo.
Black n White All Irelands.
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2023, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2023, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
They have 3 all Irelands, all won before Tyrone won anything I think
If Tyrone could drop the mantle of perennial chokers so can Mayo.
Black n White All Irelands.
With no backdoor safety net
Quote from: JoG2 on January 19, 2023, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2023, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2023, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
They have 3 all Irelands, all won before Tyrone won anything I think
If Tyrone could drop the mantle of perennial chokers so can Mayo.
Black n White All Irelands.
With no backdoor safety net
Suits the weaker teams straight knock outs. Mayo probably wouldn't have any AI if there was a back door.
Quote from: trailer on January 10, 2023, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 10, 2023, 02:22:38 PM
Ciarán Whelan.
Proper piss take answer. No surprise that Dublin bookended All Ireland's around his career. No mobility and even less ability.
whelan definitely not one of the best ever, but wasn't a bad player either, that goal against Armagh in 2002 was everything you'd want from a midfielder. He's is however the most boring pundit going.
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2023, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 19, 2023, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2023, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2023, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 04:04:57 PM
"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell.
What is the truth about Mayo ?
They'll never win it. They're a loser county, with a loser mentality. They grow up watching losers, playing with losers and they become losers. A county that has supposedly produced some of the greatest players ever* and they never won it. They have been to alter umpteen times and ended up bottling it. That is the cold hard facts Mayo unfortunately. I wish them well.
*Citation needed
They have 3 all Irelands, all won before Tyrone won anything I think
If Tyrone could drop the mantle of perennial chokers so can Mayo.
Black n White All Irelands.
With no backdoor safety net
Suits the weaker teams straight knock outs. Mayo probably wouldn't have any AI if there was a back door.
Neither system really suits weak teams. The third system is money which worked very well for Dublin.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 18, 2023, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on January 18, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
I thought the 2015 semi-final was indicative of that Mayo team.
They did brilliantly to come from 7 points down to draw level with Dublin, then Diarmuid Connolly got a red card and Alan Brogan got injured so it was 15 v 13 with a few minutes left. Instead of using their 2 extra men to go hell-bent on getting the winning scores, they held back, content that they had come from 7 points down to draw level. They had too much respect for Dublin, why would any team be happy to take a draw against a team down two players?
It was the same in many other games, where in the 4th quarter they often did well to come back into games or draw level, but never having that edge to really go for it once level late in the game.
The exception being the 2021 semi-final, but then fading badly in the final where the real difference between the team for most of the game was the taking of goal chances, but then Mayo deflated in the final stretch.
You do know that the ball was in play for ABOUT 30 SECONDS after Connolly and Brogan incidents before the referee blew the final whistle?
Regardless of the time, there were 2 passages of play during 15 v 13 that stood out
- when Mayo had possession they barely committed anyone forward, while if they had gone all-out for a score, their 2 man advantage should have made it easy enough to eke out a decent scoring chance
- then when Dublin had possession, Dublin passed it around at the back to see out the draw when Mayo should have pressed them and 2 extra players would have given them a good chance of a turnover, but instead were happy with a draw.
Contrast that with Kerry v Dublin last year, 15v15, with 20 seconds left and Dublin in the ascendancy, with momentum and pressing hard on the Kerry kick-out, Kerry stayed with 6 at the back, avoiding the temptation of an extra body back to help win their own kick-out, then after winning the kick-out, the 6 forwards, 2 midfielders and 2 or 3 backs pushed forward in search of a winning score instead of being happy to see out time and take it to extra time.
P.S. It was similarly frustrating to see Kerry do the same v Dublin in 2019 with an extra man, although that was more when 1 point up rather than when level. 4 or 5 of Kerry backs just stood around doing nothing instead of swarming up the field to help keep possession and see out time or get the insurance point.
Quote from: blanketattack on January 19, 2023, 03:17:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 18, 2023, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on January 18, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
I thought the 2015 semi-final was indicative of that Mayo team.
They did brilliantly to come from 7 points down to draw level with Dublin, then Diarmuid Connolly got a red card and Alan Brogan got injured so it was 15 v 13 with a few minutes left. Instead of using their 2 extra men to go hell-bent on getting the winning scores, they held back, content that they had come from 7 points down to draw level. They had too much respect for Dublin, why would any team be happy to take a draw against a team down two players?
It was the same in many other games, where in the 4th quarter they often did well to come back into games or draw level, but never having that edge to really go for it once level late in the game.
The exception being the 2021 semi-final, but then fading badly in the final where the real difference between the team for most of the game was the taking of goal chances, but then Mayo deflated in the final stretch.
You do know that the ball was in play for ABOUT 30 SECONDS after Connolly and Brogan incidents before the referee blew the final whistle?
Regardless of the time, there were 2 passages of play during 15 v 13 that stood out
- when Mayo had possession they barely committed anyone forward, while if they had gone all-out for a score, their 2 man advantage should have made it easy enough to eke out a decent scoring chance
- then when Dublin had possession, Dublin passed it around at the back to see out the draw when Mayo should have pressed them and 2 extra players would have given them a good chance of a turnover, but instead were happy with a draw.
Contrast that with Kerry v Dublin last year, 15v15, with 20 seconds left and Dublin in the ascendancy, with momentum and pressing hard on the Kerry kick-out, Kerry stayed with 6 at the back, avoiding the temptation of an extra body back to help win their own kick-out, then after winning the kick-out, the 6 forwards, 2 midfielders and 2 or 3 backs pushed forward in search of a winning score instead of being happy to see out time and take it to extra time.
P.S. It was similarly frustrating to see Kerry do the same v Dublin in 2019 with an extra man, although that was more when 1 point up rather than when level. 4 or 5 of Kerry backs just stood around doing nothing instead of swarming up the field to help keep possession and see out time or get the insurance point.
Ah for god sake ......... 30 Seconds........They were playing Gaelic football not basketball!
74:34 Mayo Keeper takes Kickout
74:54 Dublin win a free
(20 seconds of play with a man up from Connolly sending off.)
74:54 stoppage for Brogan Injury.
75:35 Dublin take free backward to retain possession.
75:46 final whistle.
(11 seconds of play with Dublin holding possession.)
31 seconds in all.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 19, 2023, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on January 19, 2023, 03:17:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 18, 2023, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on January 18, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
I thought the 2015 semi-final was indicative of that Mayo team.
They did brilliantly to come from 7 points down to draw level with Dublin, then Diarmuid Connolly got a red card and Alan Brogan got injured so it was 15 v 13 with a few minutes left. Instead of using their 2 extra men to go hell-bent on getting the winning scores, they held back, content that they had come from 7 points down to draw level. They had too much respect for Dublin, why would any team be happy to take a draw against a team down two players?
It was the same in many other games, where in the 4th quarter they often did well to come back into games or draw level, but never having that edge to really go for it once level late in the game.
The exception being the 2021 semi-final, but then fading badly in the final where the real difference between the team for most of the game was the taking of goal chances, but then Mayo deflated in the final stretch.
You do know that the ball was in play for ABOUT 30 SECONDS after Connolly and Brogan incidents before the referee blew the final whistle?
Regardless of the time, there were 2 passages of play during 15 v 13 that stood out
- when Mayo had possession they barely committed anyone forward, while if they had gone all-out for a score, their 2 man advantage should have made it easy enough to eke out a decent scoring chance
- then when Dublin had possession, Dublin passed it around at the back to see out the draw when Mayo should have pressed them and 2 extra players would have given them a good chance of a turnover, but instead were happy with a draw.
Contrast that with Kerry v Dublin last year, 15v15, with 20 seconds left and Dublin in the ascendancy, with momentum and pressing hard on the Kerry kick-out, Kerry stayed with 6 at the back, avoiding the temptation of an extra body back to help win their own kick-out, then after winning the kick-out, the 6 forwards, 2 midfielders and 2 or 3 backs pushed forward in search of a winning score instead of being happy to see out time and take it to extra time.
P.S. It was similarly frustrating to see Kerry do the same v Dublin in 2019 with an extra man, although that was more when 1 point up rather than when level. 4 or 5 of Kerry backs just stood around doing nothing instead of swarming up the field to help keep possession and see out time or get the insurance point.
Ah for god sake ......... 30 Seconds........They were playing Gaelic football not basketball!
74:34 Mayo Keeper takes Kickout
74:54 Dublin win a free
(20 seconds of play with a man up from Connolly sending off.)
74:54 stoppage for Brogan Injury.
75:35 Dublin take free backward to retain possession.
75:46 final whistle.
(11 seconds of play with Dublin holding possession.)
31 seconds in all.
You should join CSI Castlebar.
Kerry had less playing time v Dublin with it 15v15 and still went gung-hu for a winning score, Mayo should have done likewise.