Are we mad?

[Rossfan]

I've referred the Jinxy and Zulu proposals to a Committee (of which I'm the sole member) and this is their version of the new All Ireland based on an April -June League.
Top of D1 are League Champions, cupeens for top of Divisions 2, 3 and 4.
16 teams qualify for an All Ireland Championship -
Top 2 in D4
Top 3 in D3
Top 4 in D2
Top 7 in D1.
You could seed the top 4 in Round 1, D3 and 4 teams to be guaranteed home advantage if drawn against a higher team.
No first round games to be played in Croke Park.  If Dublin get a home draw and Parnell is too small move to some other County's ground.
You can still keep the Provincials of course.

[Lar Naparka]

Nah,, don't see this working.
What I'd like to see happening and what I expect to see aren't always the same and this issue is an example of what I mean. The cut and thrust of the championship will never be replaced by meaningless matches in remote places when one or both teams know they ain't going to advance from their division or whatever the hell you'd call it.
If two teams meet with one team assured of topping the division and the other certain of finishing bottom of the heap or near it, what interest would any sane person have in the outcome?
Mayo vs Galway, Kerry vs Dublin or Meath/Tyrone vs the whole of civilisation are games to set the pulse racing, whereas two bottom of the division sides would be lucky to get two small  boys and a dog to turn up.
Forget it folks, Tyrone will play civilised football long before Gaeldom will drop the championship format.

[Jinxy]

Nah,, don't see this working.
What I'd like to see happening and what I expect to see aren't always the same and this issue is an example of what I mean. The cut and thrust of the championship will never be replaced by meaningless matches in remote places when one or both teams know they ain't going to advance from their division or whatever the hell you'd call it.
If two teams meet with one team assured of topping the division and the other certain of finishing bottom of the heap or near it, what interest would any sane person have in the outcome?
Mayo vs Galway, Kerry vs Dublin or Meath/Tyrone vs the whole of civilisation are games to set the pulse racing, whereas two bottom of the division sides would be lucky to get two small  boys and a dog to turn up.
Forget it folks, Tyrone will play civilised football long before Gaeldom will drop the championship format.

What about when one or both teams know they ain't going to win a provincial championship?
Again, I think you're discounting the motivational effect of potential relegation.

[Zulu]

I've referred the Jinxy and Zulu proposals to a Committee (of which I'm the sole member) and this is their version of the new All Ireland based on an April -June League.
Top of D1 are League Champions, cupeens for top of Divisions 2, 3 and 4.
16 teams qualify for an All Ireland Championship -
Top 2 in D4
Top 3 in D3
Top 4 in D2
Top 7 in D1.
You could seed the top 4 in Round 1, D3 and 4 teams to be guaranteed home advantage if drawn against a higher team.
No first round games to be played in Croke Park.  If Dublin get a home draw and Parnell is too small move to some other County's ground.
You can still keep the Provincials of course.

My preference would be that all teams compete in the All Ireland. 1 v 32 etc. 16 teams qualify 1 v 16 (if all games in the previous round went with top seeds).

That format or some version of it would be vastly superior to what we have. Lar says Galway v Mayo sets the pulse racing well it doesn't really in the Connacht championship as the loser is out but if you had the system I'm suggesting if Mayo met Galway this year it would only be in a straight championship knockout in Galway or Mayo. Even next year they'll play each other in the league but if they met again it would be at All Ireland quarter final stage or better.

Galway winning Connacht but feeling the year was a disappointment after being beaten by Tipp and seeing Mayo prove they are actually the better team proves the provincials are not what they were.

[Rossfan]

Ok Zulu, the Comm a tee has a compromise for you -
Top 4 in D1, Top 2 in D2 and winners of D3 and D4 qualify for Round 2.
Bottom 2 in each Division are eliminated and the remaining 16 play a Round 1.

[Jinxy]

Progression should be based on merit.
Why should the winners of division 3 & 4 go through while loads of teams in higher divisions bow out?

[Rossfan]

Because it seems we can't be excluding the small teams?

[Syferus]

Because it seems we can't be excluding the small teams?

We're all small teams compared to Dublin.

I'd like to hear Zulu's plan to curtail Dublin's advantages over every other team.

[Lar Naparka]

Nah,, don't see this working.
What I'd like to see happening and what I expect to see aren't always the same and this issue is an example of what I mean. The cut and thrust of the championship will never be replaced by meaningless matches in remote places when one or both teams know they ain't going to advance from their division or whatever the hell you'd call it.
If two teams meet with one team assured of topping the division and the other certain of finishing bottom of the heap or near it, what interest would any sane person have in the outcome?
Mayo vs Galway, Kerry vs Dublin or Meath/Tyrone vs the whole of civilisation are games to set the pulse racing, whereas two bottom of the division sides would be lucky to get two small  boys and a dog to turn up.
Forget it folks, Tyrone will play civilised football long before Gaeldom will drop the championship format.

What about when one or both teams know they ain't going to win a provincial championship?
Again, I think you're discounting the motivational effect of potential relegation.

Two points here, Jinxy; teams begin each year with varying degrees of enthusiasm and your plan just will not get off the ground.
Some (many?) know that a first round opener followed by a probable defeat by a team they are either going to be banjaxed by or a team of no-hopers like themselves won't upset them overmuch- that's been the way, c'est la vie and all that.
But upsets can happen and minnows can dare to hope. Leitrim folks are still talking about '94 and their Connacht title and will continue to do so until they win their next. For some, there is always a chance that they stuff their neighbours and get some bragging rights to shorten the winter for them. Aye, there's alway a glimmer of hope with the championships and supporters can dare to hope as long as their hopes are modest. If they don't go far, it's over for another year- back to the club scene and life goes on as usual. A minnow can expect a minimum of two games  and for some like Sligo and Fermanagh in recent years and Tipp last year, they can build up a head of steam that may lead on to greater things in the future.
No hope of that with the league. Say team A lost their first two or three matches by telephone numbers and definitely would be better employed for the rest of the summer cutting turf or planting spuds or whatever. If that was the championship, they are gone and have nothing to hang about for.
Now in a league, a team may have, say, eight games to play and will have to play meaningless (for them) games whether they like it or not.
The second problem is the intransigent nature of the hierarchy who look on change and initiative in much the same way that a baby looks at bath water.
Problem is more acute in hurling.
Tipp and Cork will not give not give up their derbys and neither will Kilkenny and Wexford not on this life or any other.
LIke I said, what I'd like to see ain't going to be what what I'm gonna see.

[Jinxy]

How many teams had nothing to play for on the final day of the league?

[Dinny Breen]

How many teams had nothing to play for on the final day of the league?

Kildare, oh wait....

[Jinxy]

Nothing to play for but pride.

[Ball Hopper]

I've referred the Jinxy and Zulu proposals to a Committee (of which I'm the sole member) and this is their version of the new All Ireland based on an April -June League.
Top of D1 are League Champions, cupeens for top of Divisions 2, 3 and 4.
16 teams qualify for an All Ireland Championship -
Top 2 in D4
Top 3 in D3
Top 4 in D2
Top 7 in D1.
You could seed the top 4 in Round 1, D3 and 4 teams to be guaranteed home advantage if drawn against a higher team.
No first round games to be played in Croke Park.  If Dublin get a home draw and Parnell is too small move to some other County's ground.
You can still keep the Provincials of course.

My preference would be that all teams compete in the All Ireland. 1 v 32 etc. 16 teams qualify 1 v 16 (if all games in the previous round went with top seeds).

That format or some version of it would be vastly superior to what we have. Lar says Galway v Mayo sets the pulse racing well it doesn't really in the Connacht championship as the loser is out but if you had the system I'm suggesting if Mayo met Galway this year it would only be in a straight championship knockout in Galway or Mayo. Even next year they'll play each other in the league but if they met again it would be at All Ireland quarter final stage or better.

Galway winning Connacht but feeling the year was a disappointment after being beaten by Tipp and seeing Mayo prove they are actually the better team proves the provincials are not what they were.

Would you be open to the following:

Round 1:  Div 3 v Div 4 open draw, most games will be held by end of June
Round 2:  Div 2 v 8 winners from Round 1 open draw, play as soon as possible, but before mid-July

Round 3:  Div 1 v 8 winners from Round 2...provincial winners(s), if not already qualified, to be added here via a play-in game versus lowest standing seed(s).  To be played by end of July.  Round 3 will be seeded based on league position.  Provincial winners get home venue.

Revert to Quarter finals, semi finals and final for the last 8, seeding based on league position.  All games at Croke Park.

General rules:

Rounds 1 and 2 will run in the middle of provincial championships - minimum 7 days between games though.
No replays, in fact no extra time either - play on until winning score achieved.  That might be a minute over allotted time, or 5 mins.

[Rossfan]

I'll put it to the Comm a tee
Do Divs 2 and 3 include the newly relegated teams? 

[Ball Hopper]

I'll put it to the Comm a tee
Do Divs 2 and 3 include the newly relegated teams?

Yes...league positions are adjusted at end of league season...meaning Roscommon are now No. 2 in Div 2.