The Many Faces of US Politics...

[whitey]

I think in the long run Obama will be remembered as a poor president, i.e. in the worst half if you were to rank them. Probably end up in the Carter/ Truman/ Hoover ranks. That's not to say he is a bad person, just a bad president. Carter was/is a wonderful person but he was a terribly ineffectual president.

I don't think he was bad. Middle of the pack I'd think. He inherited a historically monstrous financial mess. As always, subsequent decades mould thinking as the implications of policies and events from an administration can be better appreciated.

Truman is generally considered a top ten president BTW. Which is amazing considering he went from relative obscurity to leading the Allies to victory in WW2 in no time. International views of Truman will always be tainted by the atomic bombings, but that hasn't really been a controversial subject within the US.

Hoover and Carter well down almost all lists.

In my lifetime I would have to say

Clinton
Regan
Obama
Trump
Carter
George W Bush

(George H was really an extension of Regan so I don't even rank him)

(Jury is out on Joe. Personally I like him, but he's not calling the shots)

[J70]

I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

[Gmac]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

[J70]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?

[Gmac]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?

think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

[Piskin]

I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Carter- Weak,
Reagan- Strong, lifted America out of the doom & gloom of the previous 20years of Vietnam,Watergate & Carters weakness. Faced up to Russia.
Bush 1- Awful on the economy, head of a cartel that made money on wars.
Clinton- Able politician, got lucky with the timing of the Dot Com Era, able deal maker, tough on crime. Then screwed up the Economy till this day by his signing away the Glas-Steagal Act.
Bush 2- Scumg. Stupid . hand picked by his fathers cartel for President while it was Cheney who ran the show. Made money on 9-11, Wars.
Obama- Not Bush 2.  Bailed out banks and rich people while the ordinary american people were thrown out of their homes and bought up by corporate cartels to drive rents up to the max. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yeman, Ukraine, that caused the flooding of Europe with refugee's.
Trump- Booming Economy by signing the Jobs Act in 2017, tough on illegal immigration, did away with the federal tax mandate from the ObamaCare scam. Kept inflation in check, started no wars, tough on China & Russia. Was right about Fauci's handling of Covid 19 and the political ploys behind it.
Biden- A handpicked vegetable by Silicon Valley. Weak. Exit from Alfghanistan badly done, weak with Putin, Inflation through the roof, weak with Ukraine. Not mentally fit to string a coherant sentence together. Has dirty hands in the Ukraine. more to come

[Piskin]

Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

Whose sock puppet is this?

Bit otp...it's just a dicussion on a topic at the end of the day.

[J70]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?

think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?

[Gmac]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?

think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?

suppress the vote ? If your dumb enough to fall for that then voting is the least of your worries
You hate any conservative and want them silenced as indicated by the way you attacked a new poster earlier

[J70]

NYC locking people up for memes now  wow , if you get mugged or robbed tough but memes that go against the Democrat Party well good bye

First, it wasn't NY, it was the feds.

Second, he wasn't convicted for going against the Dems, he was convicted for spreading misinformation to get gullible people to vote by text I.e. waste their vote.

But sure that GOP vote misdirection tactic is as old as the hills, so you're just fine with it.

Only thing that annoys you is when conservative and far right thugs are held to account.

a jury in New York found him guilty  , a jury of his peers ? no a bunch of progressive loons that's the new playbook try these cases in Uber liberal cities where they hand pick jurors who will convict every time .Btw have you seen the foreperson of the Trump Atlanta grand jury ? let's just say she fits the bill.

Its a shame yer man's lawyers didn't have a say in jury selection. Oh.. wait!

And if you don't want to be tried by a selection of jurors from a liberal city, then maybe don't target people in a liberal city.

Do you get upset when conservatives go judge shopping?

Any issue with so many conservative challenges to federal laws ending up in front of a certain couple of judges down in Texas for example?

think about what you are ok with , the federal government prosecuting a man for memes about texting to vote also think about this guy probably with little or no resources up against the feds , that's what liberals want ? that's what you want in every state or just certain people with certain viewpoints  ?

Why don't you be honest for once in your life?

He was spreading false information to mislead people into thinking they'd cast valid votes when they hadn't i.e. he was trying to suppress the vote of political opponents. Nothing to do with political leaning per se.

Do you think that's ok?

Are you ok with historical efforts like posting notices in black neighborhoods telling people poll locations or dates had changed?

You think that should be allowed?

suppress the vote ? If your dumb enough to fall for that then voting is the least of your worries
You hate any conservative and want them silenced as indicated by the way you attacked a new poster earlier

So you are ok with the practice then. Yet you'd be on here frothing at the mouth if it was some Dems targeting old white people down in Florida.

Spare me the lecture about "hate".

You're the one who digs up this thread every week to post the latest, irrational, half baked ravings you hear on the internet or talk radio and just brazenly ignores when someone points out that it's bleeding obvious nonsense.

[J70]

Trump's time in office was a time of peace & prosperity, just like Clintons term was. Both questionable characters but able Presidents, only fault with Trump was that he was naive in dealing with seasoned political piranha's. The so called good characters like Kennedy & Obama were warmongers.

Whose sock puppet is this?

Bit otp...it's just a dicussion on a topic at the end of the day.

Fair enough.

[Blowitupref]

I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Without doubt. Donald Trump's legacy of profound corruption and egregious conflicts of interest, the repercussions of which will echo for years after he is gone.

Historians recently ranked every president. Trump was ranked lower than William Henry Harrison, who was only president for 31 days, and John Tyler, the only former president buried in a coffin draped with the Confederate flag. Only Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan was ranked lower.

[Piskin]

I'd be similar, although I'd probably put Reagan at the top for overall impact, even if I disagreed with a lot of what he believed in. What I'd give for GOP along his lines today! Don't think any of them would push into historical top ten, except maybe Reagan.

Reagan - disagreed with much of his agenda, but its hard to argue he against his Soviet policy, even if the singular credit he gets from the right is way overblown,
Clinton - probably aligns most with my personal leanings. Centrist. And played a blinder on the north. Sc**bag personally.
Obama - inherited a disaster. Did a decent enough job overall in the face of irrational opposition.
Bush 1 - Reagan's third term. Did sign important environmental legislation into law.
Carter - uninspiring, not up to the challenges he faced on a host of issues.
Bush 2 - disastrous foreign policy in response to 9/11. Blew a big chance to lead with Katrina. Don't blame him for the financial collapse - way bigger than his administration.
Trump -  one of the most damaging presidencies in history, even if the road had been ploughed for him by the GOP for decades. Bottom five historically.

Without doubt. Donald Trump's legacy of profound corruption and egregious conflicts of interest, the repercussions of which will echo for years after he is gone.

Historians recently ranked every president. Trump was ranked lower than William Henry Harrison, who was only president for 31 days, and John Tyler, the only former president buried in a coffin draped with the Confederate flag. Only Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan was ranked lower.

Lower than G W Bush???

[Jell 0 Biafra]

I'm with you on that last point, Pishkin.  GWB was the worst president in my lifetime.  Started two unnecessary wars that the world is still paying for, and presided over the economic crash.

Say what you want about DT, he wasn't worse than that.

[mrdeeds]

Carter weak, uninspiring etc said above. Was he not too honest, too nice? Look what he's done in recent years in comparison to every ex president. Wouldn't negotiate with Iran etc.. secretly and called weak. A super human.