is there a war coming?

[give her dixie]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

[Itchy]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

[Dougal Maguire]

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

[Itchy]

America = bad
Israel = 2x bad
Assad = naughty = not as bad as Israel
Sarin gas = naughty = not as bad as Israel
Cluster bombs (Israel) = outrageous = 50xSarin gas

Sounds like it would have been better if Hitler had succeeded.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

America = bad
Israel = 2x bad
Assad = naughty = not as bad as Israel
Sarin gas = naughty = not as bad as Israel
Cluster bombs (Israel) = outrageous = 50xSarin gas

Sounds like it would have been better if Hitler had succeeded.

Disgusting post

[Arthur_Friend]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

Fair play for highlighting the disgusting hypocrisy of America on the issue of chemical weapons. It's enough to make you sick. They don't give a flying f**k about the Syrians who were gassed, they are just wondering how they can use this situation to their advantage. Don't you get it??

[Count 10]

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

So anyone who has an opinion different from you and the other pom-pom shakers are supporting Assad
We will not go into old ground and the numbers murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan...based on LIES.
Obama is prepared to act without a UN mandate........

As a matter of fact, under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, the only way the United States would be empowered legally to act in Syria is if Syria attacked the United States and threatened its national integrity. That of course has not happened and it is not possible. Syria doesn't have the ability to project power to the American homeland.
So, anything they do without UN approval is patently illegal under international law.....but don't let that stop them

The US is the worst offender in terms of chemical weapons and weapons of mass destruction use in the history of the world.

[muppet]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

Itchy, that is just pathetic.

As far as I can see most posters here are against war and killing.

[Count 10]

Trust the Russian leader to apply common sense


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/09/20139454545354818.html
Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has warned the US against taking one-sided action in Syria, but has also said that Russia "doesn't exclude" the possibility of supporting a UN resolution authorising military strikes.

He said that such an endorsement would require "convincing" evidence that President Bashar al-Assad's government used chemical weapons against citizens.

He also said the currently available evidence does not fulfil this criteria.




In a wide-ranging interview with the Associated Press news agency and Russia's state Channel 1 television, Putin said it would be "absolutely absurd" for Assad's forces to have used chemical weapons at a time when they were in the ascendency in the conflict.

"From our viewpoint, it seems absolutely absurd that the armed forces, the regular armed forces, which are on the offensive today and in some areas have encircled the so-called rebels and are finishing them off, that in these conditions they would start using forbidden chemical weapons while realising quite well that it could serve as a pretext for applying sanctions against them, including the use of force," Putin said in the interview, released on Wednesday.

US President Barack Obama said in Stockholm on Wednesday that the international community "cannot be silent" following Syria's alleged use of chemical weapons against its own people.

"I discussed our assessment and (Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt) and I are in an agreement that in the face of such barbarism the international community cannot be silent," he said.

Figures vary regarding the alleged chemical weapons attack on August 21, with the US government saying that 1,429 people were killed by poison gas in the attack, and aid agencies putting that number at closer to 355.

Assad's government has blamed the attack on the rebels, and a UN inspection team that examined the attack sites near Damascus is awaiting lab results on soil and tissue samples.

"If there are data that the chemical weapons have been used, and used specifically by the regular army, this evidence should be submitted to the UN Security Council,'' Putin added in his interview.

"And it ought to be convincing. It shouldn't be based on some rumours and information obtained by special services through some kind of eavesdropping, some conversations and things like that."

He also cited experts who believed that the current evidence "doesn't look convincing", and raised the possibility that the armed opposition had "conducted a premeditated provocative action trying to give their sponsors a pretext for military intervention".

Putin compared the evidence presented by the US administration so far to false data used by that country to justify the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"All these arguments turned out to be untenable, but they were used to launch a military action, which many in the US called a mistake. Did we forget about that?" he said.

UN action not excluded

In the interview, Putin did not "exclude" the possibility of the use of force by foreign countries against Syria, if there was enough evidence provided to the UN and that body sanctioned such an action.

If there was clear proof of what weapons were used and who used them, Russia "will be ready to act in the most decisive and serious way," Putin said.



 
Spotlight
In-depth coverage of escalating violence across Syria


He strongly cautioned the US against launching military action without UN approval, however, saying it would represent an aggression.

Asked what kind of evidence on chemical weapons use would convince Russia, Putin said "it should be a deep and specific probe containing evidence that would be obvious and prove beyond doubt who did it and what means were used".

Putin also said Russia has provided some components of the S-300 air defence missile system to Syria but that the delivery had not been completed.

He said that the process remained suspended "for now".

The interview on Tuesday night at Putin's country residence outside Moscow was the only one he granted prior to the summit of G-20 nations in St Petersburg, which opens on Thursday and will see major world powers discuss the global economy and the crisis in Syria.

US considers Syria action

Meanwhile, US national security officials will on Wednesday hold a series of public and private hearings with members of the US House of Representatives regarding the authorisation of the use of military force against Syria.

The meetings come after leaders of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee said on Tuesday that they had reached an agreement on a draft authorisation, paving the way for a vote by the committee on Wednesday.

Among other provisions, the draft, which was obtained by Al Jazeera, sets a 60-day limit on military action in Syria, with a possibility for a single 30-day extension subject to conditions.

The deal reached by Senator Robert Menendez, the Democratic chairman of the panel, and Senator Bob Corker, the top Republican, includes a provision banning any use of US armed forces on the ground.

If the document is approved by the committee on Wednesday, it will then be sent to the full Senate for a vote after members return from their August recess on September 9.

Earlier John Kerry, US secretary of state, and Chuck Hagel, the defence secretary, gave evidence to the committee, where they assured the committee that there was "zero intention" of putting troops on the ground.

The draft resolution requires Obama to consult Congress and submit to the Senate and House of Representatives foreign relations panel a strategy for negotiating a political settlement to the Syria conflict, including a review of all forms of assistance to the rebels fighting to oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Menendez said that the authorisation remained "narrow and focused" and "limited in time".

In a crucial show of support on Tuesday for Obama, John Boehner, House speaker and a Republican in Congress, said he would back Obama's motion for strikes against Assad, and called on his party colleagues to do the same.

His Republican colleague, House majority leader Eric Cantor, also supported Obama's call.


 

 


Source:

Al Jazeera and agencies

[Count 10]

Striking Syria: Illegal, immoral, and dangerous



Whatever Congress may decide, a US military strike against Syria would be a reckless and counterproductive move.

Phyllis Bennis is a Fellow of the Institute for Policy Studies and of the Transnational Institute in Amsterdam.

Obama said he will ask the US Congress to authorise military action against Syria [AFP]


If I were very optimistic, I'd say that President Obama is hoping that Congress will follow the example of the British parliament, and vote against his proposed military strike on Syria. It would let him off the hook - he could avoid an illegal, dangerous, immoral military assault and say it's Congress' fault.

But unfortunately, I don't think that much optimism is warranted. Obama's speech - not least his dismissal of any time pressure, announcing that his commanders have reassured him that their preparations to fire on command are not time-bound - gives opponents of greater US intervention in Syria a week or more to mobilise, to build opposition in Congress and in the public, and to continue fighting against this new danger. As the president accurately described it, "some things are more important than partisan politics". For war opponents in Congress, especially President Obama's progressive supporters, keeping that in mind is going to be difficult but crucial.

Obama said he will "seek Congressional authorisation" for a military strike on Syria. He said he believes US policy is "stronger" if the president and Congress are united, but made clear his belief that he "has the authority to strike without" congressional support. That's the bottom line. The first question shouted by the press as he left the White House rose garden was "will you still attack if Congress votes no?" He didn't answer.

There is little question that the Obama administration was blindsided by the British parliament's vote against the prime minister's proposal to endorse war. They were prepared to go to war without United Nations authorisation, but were counting on the UK as the core partner in a new iteration of a Bush-style "coalition of the willing." Then NATO made clear it would not participate, and the Arab League refused to endorse a military strike. France may stay in Obama's corner, but that won't be enough.

And Congress was getting restive, with more than 200 members signing one or another letter demanding that the White House consult with them. Too many pesky journalists were reprinting Obama's own words from 2007, when then-candidate Obama told the Boston Globe that "the President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorise a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

All of that led to the drive towards war slowing a bit. But it didn't stop. And that's a problem. Because whatever Congress may decide, a US military strike against Syria will still be illegal, immoral and dangerous, even reckless in the region and around the world. Congress needs to say no.
Illegal

However frustrated US presidents may be with the UN Security Council's occasional refusal to give in to their pressure, the law is clear. The United Nations Charter, the fundamental core of international law, may be vague about a lot of things. But it is unequivocal about when military force is legal, and when it isn't. Only two things make an act of war legal: immediate self-defense, which clearly is not the case for the US The horrific reality of chemical weapons devastated Syrian, not American lives. This is not self-defense. The other is if the Security Council, acting under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, authorises the use of force in response to a threat to international peace and security. That's the authorisation President Obama knows he cannot get - certainly Russia and China would veto, but right now a British veto would certainly be a possibility if Cameron wanted to respond to his public. And it's not at all clear a US resolution to use force would even get the nine necessary votes of the 15 Council members. The US is thoroughly isolated internationally.

The problem for President Obama is he still is determined to use military force, despite the requirements of international law. He says he doesn't need that authority - that maybe he'll use the 1999 Kosovo precedent to "go around" the Security Council. The problem, of course, is that the 1999 US-NATO assault on Serbia and Kosovo was illegal - faced with a sure Russian veto, Bill Clinton simply announced he would not ask for Council permission. Instead, he would get permission from the NATO high command. But aside from the hammer-and-nail problem (if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail; if you're NATO military leaders looking for re-legitimation, everything looks like it needs a military solution), nothing in international law allows NATO to substitute for the Security Council. The Charter was specifically designed to make it difficult to get authorisation for military force - its whole raison d'etre is to stand against the scourge of war. So any new decision to go to use military force without Council authority means that use of force is illegal.

Right now, in Syria, that means that members of Congress have the chance to prevent another illegal US war. If Congress should approve it, likely for political or partisan reasons that have nothing to do with Syria, their vote would mean direct complicity in an illegal and immoral war.

Immoral


Pentagon officials have confirmed what logic tells us all: every use of military force threatens civilian lives. More than 100,000 Syrians have been killed in this civil war so far, and hundreds more were killed in what appears to be (remember, we still don't know for sure) a chemical strike last week - US cruise missile strikes won't bring any of them back, and more important, won't protect any Syrian civilians from further threat. To the contrary, low-ranking conscript troops and civilians are almost certain to be injured or killed. Reports out of Syria indicate military offices and more being moved into populated areas - that shouldn't come as a surprise given the nature of the Syrian regime. But the knowledge makes those contemplating military force even more culpable.

Dangerous

A US military strike on Syria will increase levels of violence and instability inside the country, in the region, and around the world. Inside Syria, aside from immediate casualties and damage to the already shattered country, reports are already coming in of thousands of Syrian refugees returning from Lebanon to "stand with their government" when the country is under attack. It could lead to greater support to the brutal regime in Damascus. In Kosovo, more Kosovars were forcibly expelled from their homes by the Serbian regime after the NATO bombing began than had happened before it started; Syrian civilians could face similar retaliation from the government.

A US strike will do nothing to strengthen the secular armed opposition, still largely based in Turkey and Jordan, let alone the heroic but weakened original non-violent democratic opposition forces who have consistently opposed militarization of their struggle and outside military intervention. Those who gain will be the most extreme Islamist forces within the opposition, particularly those such as the Jubhat al-Nusra which are closest to al-Qaeda. They have long seen the US presence in the region as a key recruitment tool and a great local target.

There is also the danger of escalation between the US and Russia, already at odds in one of the five wars currently underway in Syria. So far that has been limited to a war of words between Washington and Moscow, but with the G-20 meeting scheduled for next week in St Petersburg, President Putin may feel compelled to push back more directly, perhaps with new economic or other measures.

Crucially, a military strike without United Nations authorisation undermines the urgent need for serious, tough diplomacy to end the Syrian war. The US just cancelled a meeting with Russia to talk about negotiations; a couple of months ago, Russia cancelled one. They both must be pushed to meet urgently to arrange and implement an immediate ceasefire and an arms embargo on all sides in Syria.

And finally, what happens the day after? If Syria retaliates against a US missile strike - with an attack on a US warship, or a US base in a neighbouring country, or on US troops in the region, or against Israel ... do we really think the US will simply stand back and say "no, this was just a one-time surgical strike, we won't respond"? What happens when that inevitable response pushes the US closer towards direct full-scale involvement in the Syrian civil war?

The word to Congress now must be - you got the vote. That's important, because now you can use that vote to say NO to military action.

What should the US do?


First thing, stop this false dichotomy of it's either military force or nothing. The use of chemical weapons is a war crime, it is indeed what Secretary Kerry called a "moral obscenity". Whoever used such a weapon should be held accountable. So what do we do about it?
•First, do no harm. Don't kill more people in the name of enforcing an international norm.
•Recognise that international law requires international enforcement; no one country, not even the most powerful, has the right to act as unilateral cop. Move to support international jurisdiction and enforcement, including calling for a second UN investigation to follow-up the current weapons inspection team, this one to determine who was responsible for the attack.
•Recommend that whoever is found responsible be brought to justice in The Hague at the International Criminal Court, understanding that timing of such indictments might require adjustment to take into account ceasefire negotiations in Syria.
•President Obama can distinguish himself powerfully from his unilateralist predecessor by announcing an immediate campaign not only to get the Senate to ratify the International Criminal Court, but to strengthen the Court and provide it with serious global enforcement capacity.
•Move urgently towards a ceasefire and arms embargo in Syria. Russia must stop, and must push Iran to stop arming and funding the Syrian regime. The US must stop, and must push Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan and others to stop arming and funding the opposition, including the extremist elements. That won't be easy - for Washington it may require telling the Saudis and Qataris that if they don't stop, we will cancel all existing weapons contracts with those countries. (As my colleague David Wildman has said, why don't we demand that the Pentagon deal with arms producers the way the Department of Agriculture deals with farmers - pay them not to produce weapons? And then the money can be used to retool their factories to produce solar panels instead of Tomahawk missiles, and the workers stay on the job....)
•Stand against further escalation of the Syrian civil war by voting no on any authorisation for US military strikes.

Phyllis Bennis is a fellow of the Institute for Policy Studies. Her books include Challenging Empire: How People, Governments and the UN Defy US Power, on the legacy of the February 15 protests.




The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

[Itchy]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

Itchy, that is just pathetic.

As far as I can see most posters here are against war and killing.

Really? Seems it depends who is getting killed. I'll ask Dixie and his buddies a few straight questions for hopefully some straight  answers...

- Why is it relevant what a country did in the past when they are trying to make decisions in the now.
- Name a country that has the power to make a intervention of any sort in Syria that has not itself at some time committed a war crime.

- How should the international community act on Syria in the short term (I.e now) to stop people being gassed to death or should they not act at all.
- Do you think the UN has any teeth to act on anything given that a number if countries have a Veto.
- Has the UN not failed Palestinians too.
- Would you support a unilateral intervention on behalf of Palestine by a western power.
- How many people should be gassed to death before the West takes action.

Simple questions. It would be nice if whataboutery, Israel or posting of 500 word articles could be avoided.

[seafoid]

Fair play to the protester who interrupted John Kerry tonight shouting "You were in Vietnam and you know we used Chemical Weapons". Sometimes the truth is hard to take.........

Fair play for what? What's that got to do with anything. Have you and these other cheer leaders for murderous dictators anything sensible to say at all.

Itchy, that is just pathetic.

As far as I can see most posters here are against war and killing.

Really? Seems it depends who is getting killed. I'll ask Dixie and his buddies a few straight questions for hopefully some straight  answers...

- Why is it relevant what a country did in the past when they are trying to make decisions in the now.
- Name a country that has the power to make a intervention of any sort in Syria that has not itself at some time committed a war crime.

- How should the international community act on Syria in the short term (I.e now) to stop people being gassed to death or should they not act at all.
- Do you think the UN has any teeth to act on anything given that a number if countries have a Veto.
- Has the UN not failed Palestinians too.
- Would you support a unilateral intervention on behalf of Palestine by a western power.
- How many people should be gassed to death before the West takes action.

Simple questions. It would be nice if whataboutery, Israel or posting of 500 word articles could be avoided.

Itchy

Please firstly outline the conditions which the US would need to fulfill for a legal war against Syria.

[Itchy]

Can you not just answer a bloody question. I think you haven't a clue seafood nor a moral bone in your body. Answer the questions and prove me wrong.

[theskull1]

sure why dont you show us the way Itchy....i.e. answer a question yourself

[Itchy]

I rest my case. It is easy to piss and moan about everything but it seems the "experts" have no ideas, no proposals, nothing to say and are just a bunch of empty vessels with expertise in copy & paste only.