Mayo v Donegal - Valentines Night Massacre or the start of new love for JOM?

Started by Barney, February 05, 2009, 08:25:59 AM

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muppet

Quote from: Barney on February 11, 2009, 02:08:25 PM
Muppet I may be a doom and gloom merchant but would am prepared to open myself to positive thinking.

From what you have seen of Mayo this year and the previous two years list five positives that show we are moving forward.

Yes, the Blueprint thread may look stupid in light of getting to two Finals but we were thrashed in those and probably were not the second best team in the country. Many of the same problems remain - I'd love to have a read through that thread but can't find it.

I think that was on the old board.

Barney the only year IMHO that we got to a final that wasn't out of the blue was 1997. 89, 96, 04 & 06 were out of the blue. You are looking for signs after one game in February that we will have a good year. I just don't thinks it works like that even if you are Kerry.

As for positives it looks as if Barry Moran might get an extended run in a problem position for us and Ger Cafferkey likewise. Tom Cunniffe is maturing and Liam O'Malley has regained some form. That's not 5 but maybe later in the year a forward or two will emerge from our recent underage teams, Campbell maybe?

Mildly promising rather than anything to get excited about but I'll cast judgement later in the year, not february. 
MWWSI 2017

RedandGreenSniper

Quote from: muppet on February 11, 2009, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: Barney on February 11, 2009, 02:08:25 PM
Muppet I may be a doom and gloom merchant but would am prepared to open myself to positive thinking.

From what you have seen of Mayo this year and the previous two years list five positives that show we are moving forward.

Yes, the Blueprint thread may look stupid in light of getting to two Finals but we were thrashed in those and probably were not the second best team in the country. Many of the same problems remain - I'd love to have a read through that thread but can't find it.

I think that was on the old board.

Barney the only year IMHO that we got to a final that wasn't out of the blue was 1997. 89, 96, 04 & 06 were out of the blue. You are looking for signs after one game in February that we will have a good year. I just don't thinks it works like that even if you are Kerry.

As for positives it looks as if Barry Moran might get an extended run in a problem position for us and Ger Cafferkey likewise. Tom Cunniffe is maturing and Liam O'Malley has regained some form. That's not 5 but maybe later in the year a forward or two will emerge from our recent underage teams, Campbell maybe?

Mildly promising rather than anything to get excited about but I'll cast judgement later in the year, not february. 

I think the problem Muppet is that the Derry game can't be viewed in isolation, that its more of the same from last year. Hopefully things will pick up, I'd be patient but it is fair to say that the signs aren't good on that showing in Ballina.

On young lads coming through Campbell isn't in the squad and I don't think he's cut out for the level either. Chris Barrett will be a great player when he's back fully match fit but we've no problem with wing-backs! That's why I'd be worried he'll ask a lot of some of the minors from last year, Aidan O'Shea in particular.
Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

rosnarun

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 11, 2009, 05:22:16 PM
On young lads coming through Campbell isn't in the squad and I don't think he's cut out for the level either. Chris Barrett will be a great player when he's back fully match fit but we've no problem with wing-backs! That's why I'd be worried he'll ask a lot of some of the minors from last year, Aidan O'Shea in particular.

sad to hear campbell is out of the squad. as he was by far the best player in the u21's last year. and against kerry was probably best player on the pitch when he came on .  wonder is it a clash with jom as i believe he can be head strong/
bit much to ask too much of a shea this year . hes still in leaving cert . a few cameo appearances maybe . he looked shell shocked in ballina. but its important to keep him involved and keep him in condition as it looks like he going to have a battle with fitness. which is tough on a guy so young.
i would not be nearly as pessimistic as most on here all mayo are missing for the last while is a spark a little leadership. man for man they are a match for any in the country and since the derry debacle have held their own against who ever they met. the number of narrow defeats is a pain in the bollix. but its shows we are well at the races. .its no use slaggiing the manager at this stage  so lets just hope that spark comes from within the squad.
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

moysider

Quote from: rosnarun on February 12, 2009, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 11, 2009, 05:22:16 PM
On young lads coming through Campbell isn't in the squad and I don't think he's cut out for the level either. Chris Barrett will be a great player when he's back fully match fit but we've no problem with wing-backs! That's why I'd be worried he'll ask a lot of some of the minors from last year, Aidan O'Shea in particular.

sad to hear campbell is out of the squad. as he was by far the best player in the u21's last year. and against kerry was probably best player on the pitch when he came on .  wonder is it a clash with jom as i believe he can be head strong/
bit much to ask too much of a shea this year . hes still in leaving cert . a few cameo appearances maybe . he looked shell shocked in ballina. but its important to keep him involved and keep him in condition as it looks like he going to have a battle with fitness. which is tough on a guy so young.
i would not be nearly as pessimistic as most on here all mayo are missing for the last while is a spark a little leadership. man for man they are a match for any in the country and since the derry debacle have held their own against who ever they met. the number of narrow defeats is a pain in the bollix. but its shows we are well at the races. .its no use slaggiing the manager at this stage  so lets just hope that spark comes from within the squad.


Johnno has got no slagging. Some criticism maybe but nothing in the mainstream press, where most people get their fix from. If this ends badly for Johnno he s well insulated in the greater media. Likes of O Rourke and McGee will take a delight in presenting it as an inadequate football county letting a great manager down. 'Only his heart made him take the job in the first place' Blah, blah, blah. Mayo football will be the only loser.Some of us realised this 3 years ago. Johnno s record is beyond reproach( mostly with other counties unfortunately) and thats the way it should be too. He did nt appoint himself on this mission. He answered a call.

That the spark will come from the squad is unlikely. There may be some glowing embers there, but sparks would be pushing it a bit. Too many lads are struggling to hold down places to offer leadership or confidence going forward even though it comes natural to them - Harte and BJP. Others are either struggling with form or  have difficulty keeping their own game in shape - Dillon, 2 Morts, Andy, Ronan. Hardly a defender v Derry  is sure of his place and our most established defender wont be around until a few weeks before the championship. Our leaders of recent times have either retired, been stood down or considering their futures. I m talking about Brady, Nallen, Mac, Heaney and Aidan H.

If ever a team needed management , organisation and coaching this is it. This was a management that was put in place to ideally bring us further than a beating in an AI final. No. Sorry thats not right. They were put in place so that if we ever got to a final again we would win, or at least not be dis graced. Or maybe even better, not get near a final, unless we were good enough. That way we would nt be disgraced. Nobody would notice how bad we are. And I must say the plan is working cunningly.

Ros you of all people to throw the burden of responsibility back on the players surprises and disappoints me. This is a management that prefers an authorative approach. Yet you are hoping players( who must not be filled with the joys of spring after last 2 summers and facing a similar end-game) will assume ownership of this situation. How many of the players know if and where they ll play?

hoopster

Cud yas tell me is a guy cormac healey on the mayo panel hes an old friend i havent herd of him in years

Barney

Muppet, I'm not predicting our fate based on one February day out but rather than on 3 years of ineptitude.

As for the "positives" - I'd see the issues raised as "hopes" - none are examples of achievments, or problems solved. I wouldn't actually agree with all of them either. Barry Moran and Ger Cafferkey certainly look like they could nail down their positions. Campbell isn't on the ball, and if Liam O'Malley is the saviour of the backs then we are in real bother - he has never put in a convincing championship performance.

And everything looks rosey in Ros so we could have a tough campaign in Connacht:


AbbeySider

Quote from: rosnarun on February 12, 2009, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 11, 2009, 05:22:16 PM
On young lads coming through Campbell isn't in the squad and I don't think he's cut out for the level either. Chris Barrett will be a great player when he's back fully match fit but we've no problem with wing-backs! That's why I'd be worried he'll ask a lot of some of the minors from last year, Aidan O'Shea in particular.

sad to hear campbell is out of the squad. as he was by far the best player in the u21's last year. and against kerry was probably best player on the pitch when he came on .  wonder is it a clash with jom as i believe he can be head strong/
bit much to ask too much of a shea this year . hes still in leaving cert . a few cameo appearances maybe . he looked shell shocked in ballina. but its important to keep him involved and keep him in condition as it looks like he going to have a battle with fitness. which is tough on a guy so young.
i would not be nearly as pessimistic as most on here all mayo are missing for the last while is a spark a little leadership. man for man they are a match for any in the country and since the derry debacle have held their own against who ever they met. the number of narrow defeats is a pain in the bollix. but its shows we are well at the races. .its no use slaggiing the manager at this stage  so lets just hope that spark comes from within the squad.


Am I missing something?
I heard JOM gave Campbell his cards way before Christmas, in fact I think it was a far back as October.
He was one of the first to be called and told his services wont be required.

Just what the lad needed to hear heading into a new college year.  ::)
I dont think JOM looked kindly on the rumours and alleged frolics while he was in college in Galway.

Another sign of poor man management ?

Farrandeelin

More than likely Abbeysider. Not going to reopen Mc case again, but a manager must be able to manage squads in a collective approach as well as the different players individually. Maybe JOM is lacking the ability to man-manage. I rated Campbell highly as a youngster. Has anybody heard if Heaney will be back?
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

rosnarun

only reason im putting the burden of responsibility back on the players is thats where it must lie.
Fact is JOM is mayo manager for the year and its pointless slagging him off for everything so we must look for solutions elsewhere . our only hope is some of the younger team grow into a role of re  leadership as it is not going to come from outside the players . not from the CB not from the manager of his hench men.
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

Rossfan

Slagging aside there seems to be an air of negativity in Mayo these days.
Is it a case of a lot of people expecting O'M to arrive and suddenly trophies would start pouring in but now that it hasnt happened it doom and gloom?
As for things being rosey in Ros..well we've got back a bit of  our old spirit and pride in the jersey  plus a bit of organisation but we're not in Division 3 for nothing .
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

rosnarun

thats a fair point a lot of mayo folk would be happier if the team was down in div 3 beating the like of tipp and longford every week or even god help them at the moment offaly
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

moysider

Quote from: rosnarun on February 12, 2009, 05:51:04 PM
only reason im putting the burden of responsibility back on the players is thats where it must lie.
Fact is JOM is mayo manager for the year and its pointless slagging him off for everything so we must look for solutions elsewhere . our only hope is some of the younger team grow into a role of re  leadership as it is not going to come from outside the players . not from the CB not from the manager of his hench men.

If that s the case Ros ( and I agree it may well be then we re well and truly bunched)  Many of these lads have enough on their plates with their own game never mind inspiring others. Where s the leadership going to come from? There s no way that these players are going to assume ownership of this set - up. Part of the formula that made Johnno a successful manager is his attention to detail and his control of minutae. His would not be a regime that would encourage players to take ownership of their destiny. He s always liked to run a steady camp with no surprises. The ' march to the hill' would never have happened on his brief. There s a lot to be said for his ways as well. When a team is going well it s great, everybody retains their focus. Significantly he has done his best work taking teams with leaders in place. The Mayo U21 winners was full of leaders. Leitrim had the Quinns and Darcy and others to lead on the pitch. Galway had the DePaors, Walsh, Fahy, Mannion and a battalion of younger guns confident of their ability and destiny. We re not in that ball park.

 The Campbell thing is another troubling issue. It s depressing that we ve apparently lost one of the best underage players I ve seen in this county in last several years. I would put him in the A group with Parsons, Hanley and O Shea. I still believe last years U21 situation could have been handled differently. I dont know anything about the relationship between this player and the senior management so it would be unfair to criticise management for Campbell being no longer around. However I will say this. The easy option is to get shut of players with 'issues'. Michael Conroy and Campbell are 2 of the best forwards we ve produced last 10 years. Both 'has- beens' in early 20s. We re not the only county that have some of our better players that are no Mary Poppins. There are multiple AI winners in Ty. and Ky. that needed a considered approach. And of course I remember Brogan 20 yrs ago being dealth with in a similar way - dismissed( not suggesting that the lads I mentioned earlier have the same issue that Padraig had). Brogan was cut loose at a time when he needed Mayo football and Mayo football needed him. If, if, if Brogan was right in 88 and 89 and Ger Geraghty was still in the country we could have done something special. But I m still bitter about those 2 lads. One would have stayed if someone got him a decent job. The other lad needed support and nurturing but it was more expedient not to have him around.

RedandGreenSniper

Mayo for Sam! Just don't ask me for a year

INDIANA

Whats your opinion on ronaldson lads. Saw him for UCD yesterday. Very impressive. I know its winter football but even still he knows where the posts are.

the Deel Rover

Quote from: INDIANA on February 13, 2009, 09:42:42 AM
Whats your opinion on ronaldson lads. Saw him for UCD yesterday. Very impressive. I know its winter football but even still he knows where the posts are.

He is not really getting much of a chance with mayo Indiana came on against Derry with about 5 minutes left . As you said he knows where the posts are and he is a very usefull forward especially at club level i don't know has he the strength to be a top intercounty forward . I don't think he has started too many games for Mayo so in fairness he hasn't got much of a chance.
Crossmolina Deel Rovers
All Ireland Club Champions 2001