The SDLP

[Rossfan]

Hard to be Danish if you can't speak Danish.

[Milltown Row2]

Hard to be Danish if you can't speak Danish.

Same for French

[Dougal Maguire]

Tell you what! No one is a single dot more Irish than me... with or without the Irish Language act. I'm as 100%  Irish as I want to be with or without Gailige. Yes /No.

Exactly

Croppy lie down

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

Tell you what! No one is a single dot more Irish than me... with or without the Irish Language act. I'm as 100%  Irish as I want to be with or without Gailige. Yes /No.

Exactly

Croppy lie down

crystal clear on this board who are the castle catholics/west brits. without our own language we are nothing but serfs

[Rossfan]

Hard to be Danish if you can't speak Danish.

So what about, say, Austria?

Never heard of an Austrian language.
There is a Danish language and an Irish language.

[Milltown Row2]

Tell you what! No one is a single dot more Irish than me... with or without the Irish Language act. I'm as 100%  Irish as I want to be with or without Gailige. Yes /No.

Exactly

Croppy lie down

crystal clear on this board who are the castle catholics/west brits. without our own language we are nothing but serfs

Rubbish, just cause you say it doesn't make it true. What's you're criteria for this castle catholic/West Brit?

Do they have an Irish passport? Do they play GAA? Are they members of the GAA association? Will they vote in favour of a UI in a border poll/ referendum? Or is it all of the above plus a smattering of Irish learnt at school or went to the Gaeltacht?

[Rossfan]

After Slovakia became independent I heard they passed a law making it a crime to speak Hungarian/Magyar.
I expect/hope that died with EU membership!!.

[Rois]

SF have devalued the IL by "weaponising" it.
...

...I suspect that those people who genuinely love the language for its own sake, its beauty, its poetry and its rich position in the cultural history of this island etc, must despair at the way its being abused (by both sides), but fear to speak out, or get ignored when they do...

...So for all those reasons, I believe that the Irish Language should be promoted and supported in schools, arts, festivals and night classes etc, but only in the same way as any other hobby...

Interesting post EG, good to get your view. I agree with much of it, particularly the first two bits I've quoted.
On the third one, I disagree. I studied Irish (and French) to A Level years ago, and have had cause and occasion to speak both since to varying degrees, albeit much of it forgotten.
I don't think an ILA as currently being discussed should be a priority in law, but formal recognition for the legitimacy of the language is long overdue. Back in the mists of time I applied to a well-regarded London university with Irish as an A Level, but they wouldn't accept it as a qualifying grade. That would have been easily challenged if the language had had official status in law. it makes me wonder on how many other (more important) occasions has the study of this language and its literature been disrespected?

[marty34]

Sinn Fein 'weaponising' the Irish language is not the reason Unionists oppose it. It is merely a smokescreen and sounds like a more legitimate reason than the real one. They oppose it because it is Irish and they have done so for centuries, long before Sinn Fein even existed.

Well said HS - this is why they are having great difficulty signing up to a stand alone (ironically the Scots and Welsh have one) ILA.  An Ghaeilge was here long before the OO and it'll be here long after the OO has gone.

As I say, it's not about the Irish language, it's more important in terms of what it's mean - the symbolism of it.  It wouldn't bother me if there is a stand alone US act.

I find it ironic all these GAA heads saying "we don't need it", it's a hobby" and it's a dead language etc."  Who needs enemies when you have 'friends' like these.

Another post - bilingualism is good.  Most children in Europe are bilingual.  Research has proven that bilingual has enormous benefits.  Funny how any gaelscoils have come from demand from working class areas for the most part.  Probably deserves a thread on it own - the advantages of bi-lingualism.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

Never heard of an Austrian language.

Precisely the point. Many European countries have their borders built around a common or popular language but it is most certainly not a requirement.

Germans and Austrians can easily understand each other, but Austria's national identity doesn't rely on having a unique, distinct national language.

On the other hand, the majority of Swiss people are nominally regarded as speaking German as their first language - but the dialect(s) of "Swiss German" is almost incomprehensible to most other German speakers save for those living near the border with Switzerland - if German or Austrian media are using video or audio of someone speaking Swiss German, most of the time it is subtitled or dubbed. For these reasons, school children in the Swiss German language area are taught "Swiss standard German" as a separate language subject in order to be able to speak to other German speakers at large.

For the record, there is a small ethnic & linguistic German speaking minority in Denmark in the North Schleswig/South Jutland area, though most of them can also speak Danish as a second language. Conversely, there is also a Danish speaking minority in the Schleswig-Holstein state in Germany whom have access to their own schools and community associations, as well as their own political party to represent their interests.

And what about those Indo-European languages that don't lend themselves to a (mostly) monolingual nation, and by & large whose groups of speakers have little or no nationalist movement? The Romansh speakers in Switzerland, Ladin speakers in Italy, Frisians in both the Netherlands & Germany, various dialects of Sami speakers in northern Scandinavia, Galician speakers in Spain, numerous local languages in Russia (Tatar, Bashir etc.) and so on? Then also flip it around with say the significant amount of Hungarian speakers in Slovakia, Serbia & Romania, the German/Alsatian speakers of Alsace/Elass in France, Swedish speakers in Finland, German speakers outside of the main German language area in central & eastern Europe inc. Poland, Romania, Italy, Russia, among others due to historic migration patterns and borders drawn after the endings of battles or wars. None of these linguistic and/or ethnic minorities in another country are generally regarded as fifth columnists because the speak the language of a neighbouring or nearby country, the same way not all monolingustic anglophones in Scotland are freverent supporters of the UK.

TL;DR version - a language can be a backbone to a nation or country, but it is most certainly not a prerequisite - other cultural principles can apply.

So as it stands, the one-upmanship of "No True Irishman" comes up again - funny how the majority of such claim to be inclusive yet give their definition of Irishness based on exclusiveness (which of course never excludes them). Can't have it both ways.

That's irrelevant to the situation in Ireland though because the people you have mentioned that speak the minority language (Or variants of the dominant one) are still going to be able to speak the dominant language of the country they're in because it's spoken by everyone, unlike Irish here.

[Milltown Row2]

Sinn Fein 'weaponising' the Irish language is not the reason Unionists oppose it. It is merely a smokescreen and sounds like a more legitimate reason than the real one. They oppose it because it is Irish and they have done so for centuries, long before Sinn Fein even existed.

Well said HS - this is why they are having great difficulty signing up to a stand alone (ironically the Scots and Welsh have one) ILA.  An Ghaeilge was here long before the OO and it'll be here long after the OO has gone.

As I say, it's not about the Irish language, it's more important in terms of what it's mean - the symbolism of it.  It wouldn't bother me if there is a stand alone US act.

I find it ironic all these GAA heads saying "we don't need it", it's a hobby" and it's a dead language etc."  Who needs enemies when you have 'friends' like these.

Another post - bilingualism is good.  Most children in Europe are bilingual.  Research has proven that bilingual has enormous benefits.  Funny how any gaelscoils have come from demand from working class areas for the most part.  Probably deserves a thread on it own - the advantages of bi-lingualism.

I don't think you'll find an Irish man against an Irish language act, how we are going about it currently (over a 1000 days of no assembly) could have been done better. Arguing with Irishmen over who's more Irish is bizarre.

It's a pathetic show from politicians here, dig your heels in stuff

[bannside]

Exactly. No Irishman would have anything other than a positive outlook towards an act that allows Irish to be used whenever, wherever. My point is that I will still feel every bit as Irish as I already do whether it is implemented now or in five years. That's my point....Hardstation wasnt a mile away either lol.

[smelmoth]

Ongoing debate about whether the Irish language has been weaponised. What is completely clear is that the ILA has been weaponised.

We are in "Brexit means Brexit" and "Get Brexit Done" territory here. People are are for against a label rather than something of substance i.e. the content behind the label.

I know there was a supposed leak of a draft ILA but the act is certainly not finalised.

Is impossible to have an opinion on the ILA until we see it.

Personally I think we should be trying to put an ILA in place but that ILA has to pass a test of reasonableness. I would propose the following test.

A filling station in Larne offers fuel and groceries to the local community. Today anyone going in trying to order for example £30 of unleaded petrol and a cake iced with a message in favour of equal marriage and trying to conduct the transaction in Irish is likely to be faced with blank faces. Any ILA is unlikely to change this. Any ILA that attempts to change this is not one I could support.

Anybody with a full command of English but insisted on attempting to conduct the transaction in Irish with the non Irish speaking till operator deserves neither sympathy nor legal support.

The more interesting aspect is where someone wants to buy a TV licence. The required documentation is provided by the post office. The post office is provided by the same filling station and the member of staff is the same one providing the iced cake and fuel at the other till. Bilingual documentation seems fair enough. Bilingual signage is a grey area. There are a lot of signs and a lot of small print. How much of this is to be bilingual and how quickly is it to be replaced and at what cost to competing priorities? An ILA will have to address this.

But then there is the verbal interaction with the counter staff. What requirement will be placed on the service station in order to allow them to provide a needed public service?

[Rossfan]

As recently as 2009 the Slovaks weren't being nice to their Hungarians.

https://www.cleveland.com/world/2009/09/new_language_ban_in_slovakia_f.html

[seafoid]

Sinn Fein 'weaponising' the Irish language is not the reason Unionists oppose it. It is merely a smokescreen and sounds like a more legitimate reason than the real one. They oppose it because it is Irish and they have done so for centuries, long before Sinn Fein even existed.

Bourdieu defined doxa as a realm of unquestioned orthodoxy in which things cannot be thought or said.
In the DUP the doxa is that NI is British and that anything Irish is the enemy.
This is very worn and tattered at this stage.