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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: GalwayBayBoy on November 17, 2007, 04:26:52 AM

Title: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 17, 2007, 04:26:52 AM
Story in the Connacht Tribune this week that Cortoon Shamrocks' Michael Martin is the All-Ireland winning Galway minor that Carlton has first option on next year. He says himself that he might go over next year for a few weeks and see how it goes.

Personally I don't think he'd be what they are looking for. He's a very tidy talented forward but quite slight. I don't really think he'd be suited to AFL especially compared to what they look for? Which is usually athletes. Martin is a pure footballer.

Only other name mentioned in the article is Laois' Zac Tuohy.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: INDIANA on November 17, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
they also require guys who can stick the ball between the posts. i don't think there has been an irish guy in that role yet- it would be the hardest position for him to learn in. But they put potential players through a battery of physical tests so they muct think he has some level of physical attribute for it.
I see the Aussies are raving about Brendan Murphy- looks like a star in the making.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on November 17, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
Mickey Harte was right - cut the links - or else make them pay the clubs.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Tyrone Dreamer on November 17, 2007, 10:37:21 AM
Would it not be easier if we stopped playing gaelic football underage all together and instead teach all the youngsters how to play aussie rules? It would save the aussies a lot of hassle in having to teach the players new skills when theyre 18 or 19. It would make the transfer to aussie rules much simpler for everyone involved.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on November 17, 2007, 11:16:51 AM
Good enough idea !
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 17, 2007, 11:43:39 AM
Mickey Harte was right - cut the links - or else make them pay the clubs.

As amateur players you can't make the AFL pay the clubs at all...

In fact the problem is that when the Compromise Series was talking place there were rules about player recruitement which don't exist now...As Paul Roos said - "If the Compromise Rules doesn't happen again then ALL THE AUSTRALIAN CLUBS WOULD BE COMING TO IRELAND LOOKING FOR TALENT....
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: INDIANA on November 17, 2007, 02:44:11 PM
wouldn't have made ablind bit of difference- if you're silly enough to believe the words of a professional organisation that has always recruited in Ireland then you're really selling yourself short in my view.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Fermanaghandsam on November 17, 2007, 04:06:15 PM
I am of a completly different opinion. The GAA will lose some of there best players, YES, but what a great oppurtity for the young fellas. They get a chance to become a professional sportsman and make a living out of playing sport. We are only talking 3 or 4 players a year max, it is not going to destroy the GAA. If a member of my club was offered a trail I would be delighted for him and wishing hm all the best, yes it would be a loss to the club on the playin side, but i think everyone would be so proud of him and he club for producing such a star.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Hardy on November 18, 2007, 12:09:29 PM
We are only talking 3 or 4 players a year max

How do you come to that conclusion? Another way to look at it is as a geometric progression. It used to be one player every few years. Then maybe one a year. Last year it was two or three. This year it seems to be about eight, so far. See the picture? And it's not just any eight players. It's the eight players the Aussies (who have full time scouts here now) consider the best eight in the country.

People rightly say it's a great opportunity for the young lads. Of course it is and I'd have jumped at the opportunity myself. But to proceed from there to argue that therefore the GAA should do nothing about it doesn't make any sense. The GAA has to look after its own interests and mission. Its purpose is not to facilitate, free gratis, professional sports careers for Irish youngsters.

Others compare the Aussie drain to the rate of player loss to soccer, rugby, drink, etc. I can't see the parallel. The lads who go to play for Drogheda or Reading or Shannon or Munster, were probably (with a few exceptions - Shane Horgan, etc.) not going to make top level GAA players anyway. The lads who decide they prefer a good social life were definitely not going to make it. The Aussies, on the other hand are cherry picking the best - our future stars - and have set up structures here to do it on a professional, organised basis.

If they continue to hoover the best talent out of the country and the numbers continue to grow geometrically like this, then by 2012 or 2015 the GAA will be the equivalent of the League of Ireland in soccer - a nursery for the AFL, developing young players for the professional league down under. But in soccer, at least the Irish clubs get paid.

I think this is a full-blown crisis for the game. And I have no idea what to do about it.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: ykickamoocow on November 18, 2007, 12:22:05 PM
I see the Aussies are raving about Brendan Murphy- looks like a star in the making.

Actually it was Tadhg Kennelly who compared Brendon Murphy to the best midfielder in the AFL. I have very high hopes for Murphy as he looks like a really talented player and could be a real asset for the Sydney Swans. If Murphy can turn out to be as half as good as Kennelly i will be a very happy man as Kennelly really is a excellent player who provides much needed run from the halfback line. Watching the Swans play when Kennelly is injured is painful at best. He is top 5 talent wise in the Swans team and i would say top 3 in terms of importance. I am not looking forward to 2010 when he goes back to Ireland.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 01:06:06 PM
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I think this is a full-blown crisis for the game. And I have no idea what to do about it.

That's the fundamental point though, we can't do anything about it. At best the GAA can look for compensation for the players club and county. I think one of the posters here alluded to this already making the comparison with Liverpool paying clubs like Cherry Orchard money for players. I'm not sure I'd be as fearful for the future as you Hardy, some of the players going over are bound not to make it and they are not necessarily taking the best Gaelic Footballers but the lads most suited to their game. Now I know the games are similar but the Gooch for example wouldn't have made it over there yet he's a star here. Likewise none of the Galway or Derry lads have been asked over (that I know of anyway) and no Kerry lads seem to be going either and those lads are by and large the most natural footballers we have. How neither of Sean Walsh's lads has been asked for trials is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: inisceithleann on November 18, 2007, 01:15:19 PM
The recruitment drive by the AFL is concerning, but at the moment it's not a serious issue IMO. In most urban clubs in Ireland, many players after Minor concentrate solely on Soccer or Rugby and the numbers the GAA lose through this are far greater than the few that will try their luck at Aussie Rules. The GAA needs to sort out holding on to players in Ireland before they criticise the Australians for doing what is no more than English Soccer clubs have been doing for years.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 01:58:37 PM
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In most urban clubs in Ireland, many players after Minor concentrate solely on Soccer or Rugby and the numbers the GAA lose through this are far greater than the few that will try their luck at Aussie Rules. The GAA needs to sort out holding on to players in Ireland before they criticise the Australians for doing what is no more than English Soccer clubs have been doing for years.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, many club players and quite a few inter county players play soccer or rugby through the winter. It's not like we are losing those players, there's obviously a few but it goes the other way too with many lads choosing to concentrate primarily on GAA as they get older.
                     The difference is that the Aussie rules clubs are taking our players for free after the GAA has invested a lot of time, money and effort developing the very skills that make them such obvious candidates for Aussie rules. They can adapt so quickly to AR because they already have many of the basic skills of the game courtesy of the GAA. That is not true of soccer or rugby at a professional level, while at a local amateur level it is simply a matter of choice which code a fella plays.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: inisceithleann on November 18, 2007, 02:01:48 PM
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In most urban clubs in Ireland, many players after Minor concentrate solely on Soccer or Rugby and the numbers the GAA lose through this are far greater than the few that will try their luck at Aussie Rules. The GAA needs to sort out holding on to players in Ireland before they criticise the Australians for doing what is no more than English Soccer clubs have been doing for years.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, many club players and quite a few inter county players play soccer or rugby through the winter. It's not like we are losing those players, there's obviously a few but it goes the other way too with many lads choosing to concentrate primarily on GAA as they get older.
                     The difference is that the Aussie rules clubs are taking our players for free after the GAA has invested a lot of time, money and effort developing the very skills that make them such obvious candidates for Aussie rules. They can adapt so quickly to AR because they already have many of the basic skills of the game courtesy of the GAA. That is not true of soccer or rugby at a professional level, while at a local amateur level it is simply a matter of choice which code a fella plays.


Thats fair enough darbyo, I suppose I'm talking from my own club at home's experience as we used to lose loads of fellas at 18/19. There definitely needs to compensation introduced and in fairness I think most AFL clubs will co-operate as the recruitment drive is only going to increase in future years.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 18, 2007, 02:44:14 PM
How can clubs claim compensation in any shape or form??? Amateur players who are playing for their love of the game remember and you want to penalise them by saying AFL clubs have to pay for them???
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 03:28:27 PM
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How can clubs claim compensation in any shape or form??? Amateur players who are playing for their love of the game remember and you want to penalise them by saying AFL clubs have to pay for them???

How is it penalising the players? I think someone else on here made the point that professional soccer clubs will give amateur clubs a small fee and then a more substantial amount in the event the player they sign goes on to play a certain number of senior games. I'm not sure if this is true but I think it is, irrespective, I think the GAA could work out a deal with the AFL where any player who actually signs a 2 year contract has his club and county compensated to the tune of lets say €20000 each, rising to 50K each should he play 25 senior games, or some variation of that.
    That kind of money would be pittance to any AFL club but a substantial pay off to any GAA club. I accept that this couldn't legally be forced on the AFL clubs but I'm sure they wouldn't have much problem paying 100-150K for the next Tadgh Kennelly. If the player didn't make it they'd have only invested an extra €40K which is nothing to them.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 18, 2007, 04:36:39 PM
Darbyo - It penalises the players by reducing the chances of them having a professional sporting career....with regards to the soccer clubs that is becuase they are a professional sport who all operate under FIFA rules which enforce this...which is not in place within GAA/AFL....

Why would the AFL even contemplate a concept whereby they would agree to pay for players - they don't even play for young players in Aus so why would they do it for Irish players???

The only way to get some sort of agreement is to start the compromise rules series again.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: dodo on November 18, 2007, 05:05:41 PM
I am of a completly different opinion. The GAA will lose some of there best players, YES, but what a great oppurtity for the young fellas. They get a chance to become a professional sportsman and make a living out of playing sport. We are only talking 3 or 4 players a year max, it is not going to destroy the GAA. If a member of my club was offered a trail I would be delighted for him and wishing hm all the best, yes it would be a loss to the club on the playin side, but i think everyone would be so proud of him and he club for producing such a star.
[/b]

Would you and your clubmates not be more proud of your hypothetical player if he made it on the Fermanagh senior team and turns out to be real star in the game ? A game that you and your club belong to and have a passionate involvement in. If you would be more proud of him playing Aussie rules on the other side of the world.....well......that asks more questions than it answers IMO.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 05:13:23 PM
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Darbyo - It penalises the players by reducing the chances of them having a professional sporting career..

No it doesn't, you can't be suggesting that AFL clubs wouldn't take Irish players because they have to pay an extra €40000 (which is only my example figure) it could be much lower in reality.Regardless of the amount, professional clubs with the resources of AFL teams wouldn't bat an eyelid about paying 30-150K for players and remember the top end is only for lads who have made it onto their senior team. I'm not an expert on the AR system but it is my understanding that Irish players are outside their draft system so paying a nominal fee for these players while not affecting their draft seems a fair compromise.
             If the AFL has the control to tell their clubs they can't recruit Irish players while the Comp. Rules is on then surely they can tell them they have to compensate the Irish clubs and counties if they are wholesale recruiting here. If I owned an AFL club I'd prefer pay 150K for the next Tadgh Kennelly rather than know he is in Ireland but I can't get him because of an end of season kick around between two different sporting organizations.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Puckoon on November 18, 2007, 05:27:01 PM
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How can clubs claim compensation in any shape or form??? Amateur players who are playing for their love of the game remember and you want to penalise them by saying AFL clubs have to pay for them???

How is it penalising the players? I think someone else on here made the point that professional soccer clubs will give amateur clubs a small fee and then a more substantial amount in the event the player they sign goes on to play a certain number of senior games. I'm not sure if this is true but I think it is, irrespective, I think the GAA could work out a deal with the AFL where any player who actually signs a 2 year contract has his club and county compensated to the tune of lets say €20000 each, rising to 50K each should he play 25 senior games, or some variation of that.     That kind of money would be pittance to any AFL club but a substantial pay off to any GAA club. I accept that this couldn't legally be forced on the AFL clubs but I'm sure they wouldn't have much problem paying 100-150K for the next Tadgh Kennelly. If the player didn't make it they'd have only invested an extra €40K which is nothing to them.

Of all the mitigating factors that lure young club players away from their clubs, the aussie rules teams are the only avenue that can be accosted by the GAA (and we all know what acronym that can stand for) and asked to fork over money for a club player making a lifestyle choice. While this kind of money would be pittance to a professinal club darbyo - on what grounds do they have to pay it, or even be asked for it? Id find it cheeky in the extreme to have the GAA club or county attempt to make money off my back if I decided that I wanted to give the professional sports choice a good go in australia, or even if I wanted to go across the water and play soccer. Any player is not a commodity or possession of the GAA - infact its quite the inverse, the GAA belongs to the members. We pay to be members of the association. If we decided to leave that association (which we pay to have the priviledge of membership) on what grounds can they even come close to justify putting their hand out for compensation?
Its interesting there is more debate about AFL clubs signing players than those lost to poor mentorism, alcohol, soccer, rugby, immigration and work movements within the country, and the irony is that the numbers lost to professional sport in australia are in the 10s and 20s compared to those lost to other factors.


I am of a completly different opinion. The GAA will lose some of there best players, YES, but what a great oppurtity for the young fellas. They get a chance to become a professional sportsman and make a living out of playing sport. We are only talking 3 or 4 players a year max, it is not going to destroy the GAA. If a member of my club was offered a trail I would be delighted for him and wishing hm all the best, yes it would be a loss to the club on the playin side, but i think everyone would be so proud of him and he club for producing such a star.
[/b]

Would you and your clubmates not be more proud of your hypothetical player if he made it on the Fermanagh senior team and turns out to be real star in the game ? A game that you and your club belong to and have a passionate involvement in. If you would be more proud of him playing Aussie rules on the other side of the world.....well......that asks more questions than it answers IMO.

This is a controlling opinion. We want you to think the way we do, and its a real shame if your own dreams and desires to try something dont fit in with the rest of our ideals down the club.
It doesnt matter of course that you might be good enough to make a real great living playing professional sports - what about your club!
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 18, 2007, 05:53:24 PM
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Darbyo - It penalises the players by reducing the chances of them having a professional sporting career..

No it doesn't, you can't be suggesting that AFL clubs wouldn't take Irish players because they have to pay an extra €40000 (which is only my example figure) it could be much lower in reality.Regardless of the amount, professional clubs with the resources of AFL teams wouldn't bat an eyelid about paying 30-150K for players and remember the top end is only for lads who have made it onto their senior team. I'm not an expert on the AR system but it is my understanding that Irish players are outside their draft system so paying a nominal fee for these players while not affecting their draft seems a fair compromise.
             If the AFL has the control to tell their clubs they can't recruit Irish players while the Comp. Rules is on then surely they can tell them they have to compensate the Irish clubs and counties if they are wholesale recruiting here. If I owned an AFL club I'd prefer pay 150K for the next Tadgh Kennelly rather than know he is in Ireland but I can't get him because of an end of season kick around between two different sporting organizations.


Yes they wouldn't be taking players for that sort of money - Approx 75-80k AUD -So you are telling me that teams who can get Irish players for nothing are going to volunteer to pay anything from 50-250k when they have absolutely no need to do it.....Clubs are limited to the amount of money they can spend....

The end of season kickabout is actually something the Aussies enjoyed as it was both a money spinner and gave the players the chance to play for their country which the players enjoyed...
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 05:55:41 PM
Puckoon, I agree with most of what you're saying and if you go back to my first post I said....
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we can't do anything about it. At best the GAA can look for compensation for the players club and county. I think one of the posters here alluded to this already making the comparison with Liverpool paying clubs like Cherry Orchard money for players.

So I agree that we don't have any real right to seek compensation I just think that the AFL might agree if asked by the GAA to do so as the money is small. And we(the GAA) are setting the foundations to be a good AR player so there is greater justification to look for compensation than we would from lets say soccer.

Quote
Its interesting there is more debate about AFL clubs signing players than those lost to poor mentorism, alcohol, soccer, rugby, immigration and work movements within the country, and the irony is that the numbers lost to professional sport in australia are in the 10s and 20s compared to those lost to other factors.

This is a totally different issue, the point is, the players being sought by the AFL are only wanted because of the work of the GAA. If Martin Clarke didn't play GAA he wouldn't be earning money playing AR in Australia at the moment. Athletically there has to be soccer and rugby players here that are capable of playing AR but they don't seem to want them, why? Because they don't have the skills of their game, but our lads do, because of the work done by the GAA.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 06:03:31 PM
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Yes they wouldn't be taking players for that sort of money - Approx 75-80k AUD -So you are telling me that teams who can get Irish players for nothing are going to volunteer to pay anything from 50-250k when they have absolutely no need to do it.....Clubs are limited to the amount of money they can spend....

Wouldn't they?, Collingwood I'm told are the biggest sports club in Australia, if they scouted two lads who they felt could make it as big stars in their game you're telling me they wouldn't pay 75-80K AUD. Maybe you're right but I'd doubt it. And the point is they wouldn't be volunteering this money but because of an agreement with the GAA they'd have to pay it.

Quote
The end of season kickabout is actually something the Aussies enjoyed as it was both a money spinner and gave the players the chance to play for their country which the players enjoyed...

I'm sure they did but like I said would the clubs rather have access to quality players or watch an end of season Comp. Rules game.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Puckoon on November 18, 2007, 08:05:46 PM
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Yes they wouldn't be taking players for that sort of money - Approx 75-80k AUD -So you are telling me that teams who can get Irish players for nothing are going to volunteer to pay anything from 50-250k when they have absolutely no need to do it.....Clubs are limited to the amount of money they can spend....

Wouldn't they?, Collingwood I'm told are the biggest sports club in Australia, if they scouted two lads who they felt could make it as big stars in their game you're telling me they wouldn't pay 75-80K AUD. Maybe you're right but I'd doubt it. And the point is they wouldn't be volunteering this money but because of an agreement with the GAA they'd have to pay it.
Quote
The end of season kickabout is actually something the Aussies enjoyed as it was both a money spinner and gave the players the chance to play for their country which the players enjoyed...

I'm sure they did but like I said would the clubs rather have access to quality players or watch an end of season Comp. Rules game.

Darbyo, I really dont think they would. Id say whatever general manager that agreed to pay something for nothing wouldnt remain in his post very long.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 09:22:08 PM
Maybe I'm not expressing myself properly or maybe you think that there is no way the AFL would come to a financial compensation package with the GAA, which is fair enough. But is it beyond the realms of possibility that the GAA and the AFL could sit down and agree that because of the similarities of the two sports a nominal fee should be paid to the players club by any AFL team that signs a player on a two year contract.
           The ruling by FIFA that DFS spoke about in relation to pro. soccer clubs paying amateur clubs for players is based on fairness, I'd imagine. That's to say that because the club invested so much time and effort to develop the player to that level it's only fair that they get something back.
The AFL was already able to keep the clubs at bay when the IR was going on so can they not force them to pay a bit. Again I think if I was in charge I'd rather pay a small fee for a player rather than being prevented from recruiting them at all. At the end of the day if we can't get compensation for players lost then I don't think there is any real 'upside' to this from a GAA perspective. Though I accept we could only get money with a goodwill attitude from the Aussies, and if they told us to take a hike then that would be the end of it.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stephenite on November 18, 2007, 10:19:43 PM
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Yes they wouldn't be taking players for that sort of money - Approx 75-80k AUD -So you are telling me that teams who can get Irish players for nothing are going to volunteer to pay anything from 50-250k when they have absolutely no need to do it.....Clubs are limited to the amount of money they can spend....

Wouldn't they?, Collingwood I'm told are the biggest sports club in Australia, if they scouted two lads who they felt could make it as big stars in their game you're telling me they wouldn't pay 75-80K AUD. Maybe you're right but I'd doubt it. And the point is they wouldn't be volunteering this money but because of an agreement with the GAA they'd have to pay it.

Quote
The end of season kickabout is actually something the Aussies enjoyed as it was both a money spinner and gave the players the chance to play for their country which the players enjoyed...

I'm sure they did but like I said would the clubs rather have access to quality players or watch an end of season Comp. Rules game.

That section I highlighted is ludicrous - why pay for something when you can get it for free? Can people stop bleating on about clubs getting compensation, please? It's not going to happen, and moreover it shouldn't happen for the sake of the GAA. The precedent something lie this would set is scary
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 10:38:19 PM
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That section I highlighted is ludicrous - why pay for something when you can get it for free?

Did you not read my last post at all, I said....
Quote
Maybe I'm not expressing myself properly or maybe you think that there is no way the AFL would come to a financial compensation package with the GAA, which is fair enough. But is it beyond the realms of possibility that the GAA and the AFL could sit down and agree that because of the similarities of the two sports a nominal fee should be paid to the players club by any AFL team that signs a player on a two year contract

I've put in bold the question is it possible?, now maybe it isn't which I accept is fair enough. As for this comment....

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Can people stop bleating on about clubs getting compensation, please? It's not going to happen, and moreover it shouldn't happen for the sake of the GAA. The precedent something lie this would set is scary

that thin edge of the wedge argument can cover a multitude of issues it seems.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Puckoon on November 18, 2007, 10:59:11 PM
Maybe I'm not expressing myself properly or maybe you think that there is no way the AFL would come to a financial compensation package with the GAA, which is fair enough. But is it beyond the realms of possibility that the GAA and the AFL could sit down and agree that because of the similarities of the two sports a nominal fee should be paid to the players club by any AFL team that signs a player on a two year contract.
           The ruling by FIFA that DFS spoke about in relation to pro. soccer clubs paying amateur clubs for players is based on fairness, I'd imagine. That's to say that because the club invested so much time and effort to develop the player to that level it's only fair that they get something back.
The AFL was already able to keep the clubs at bay when the IR was going on so can they not force them to pay a bit. Again I think if I was in charge I'd rather pay a small fee for a player rather than being prevented from recruiting them at all. At the end of the day if we can't get compensation for players lost then I don't think there is any real 'upside' to this from a GAA perspective. Though I accept we could only get money with a goodwill attitude from the Aussies, and if they told us to take a hike then that would be the end of it.


It is not outside the realms of possibility, but it is not something that the AFL will have any reason to even contemplate.

FIFAs ruling governs one sport, which is necessary due to the fact that every maradonna needs to start off somewhere, within the same sport. So therefore it makes sense that the feeder club garners some degree of compensation.

Darbyo you say that you'd rather pay a small fee than not get recruiting the player at all - the reality is that the GAA have no power to stop this recruitment, which is very much the response Id expect them to get if they attempted to extort a "compensation fee" for a player lost to AFL. Losing the international rules series will not dampen the drive of the AFL to enquire about Gaelic players.

Ive just re read your last post 7 times, and I feel like you are asking a question and then giving yourself the defeated answer at the end of the post! Now im confused.

Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on November 18, 2007, 11:12:17 PM
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Ive just re read your last post 7 times, and I feel like you are asking a question and then giving yourself the defeated answer at the end of the post! Now im confused.

Sorry about any confusion but if we went back to my first post, I said there was nothing we could do about lads going to Australia except maybe agree a compensation package with the AFL for the club the lads leave. I agree with everyone who has questioned whether AFL clubs would pay this and I accept the reasons why. Initially I was just saying this was the best we could hope for as preventing them going wasn't an option.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on November 18, 2007, 11:31:12 PM
I think this is a full-blown crisis for the game. And I have no idea what to do about it.
I think we have to offer them an alternative - that alternative has to involve allowing them the opportunity to live the life of a professional athlete.  I know we can't afford the money that AFL clubs can offer (although my understanding is that it's pittance unless they make the grade, which is probably why Cavanagh turned it down).  I do think however that we can offer enough to ensure that lads get a chance at living the dream for a while.  We have enough money to waste on stupid unneeded stadia, maybe we should think about spending some of that money on the players, without who, we wouldn't have a game, no matter how many volunteers sweep the changing rooms and line the pitches.
The paid players would be essentially full time gaa coaches in schools etc, they'd be available for other duties within the county too - this would take up most of their mornings, the rest of their days could be spent on their training programme.  I would envisage a salary around €30K p.a for this - it won't make them rich, but it will adequately provide for them until they decide they've got to take a real job.  They would be helped in every way with skills for a future career, be it tradesmen to professional.  There could be a second tier of players too, those who wish to work part time, give them a grant of €15K p.a, just enough to help them fund their dedication to their sport.  The other inter-county players could be paid lower sums, up to 5K p.a.
The amount of each type of bursary to be allocated to each county could be decided by their league division, with hurling and football treated equally, in fact a little too much time on my hands I've come up with the following:

Bursary:     30,000          15,000          5,000          2,000
Division 1      4                   4                  15              10
Division 2      2                   2                   5               24
Division 3      1                   2                   4               26
Division 4      1                   1                   3               28

In total this would amount to €9.3M - if the govt were still going to input their €5M, the GAA could come up with a further €4.9M p.a (if we look at the money the GPA bring in, the GAA could easily bring in this amount for players payment from sponsors and commerical deals, oh yeah, a side benefit, this should remove the need for the GPA to exist anymore)  It's not particularly expensive and it might help stem the talent drain.  Another reason why I feel we should go down the pay for play route, is that our immigrant population will not be attracted to play our games unless there is the chance to play professionally (allbeit limited).  I know there are many flaws in the proposal above, sorry, make that, many, many flaws - but I also think it's easily affordable and maybe it's time we considered something along these lines?  We'd need to introduce things like balloon payments, centralised contracts, arbitration committees, standardised qualification criteria......

One other thing Dubsforsam has pointed out, getting money from ozzie clubs is an absolute non-runner, if they want to donate the money fine, I can't see it happening, but....  Btw, what would the club do with the money, build a new stand?

Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: zoyler on November 19, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
Interesting post Bogball - but you have overlooked the giggest flaw of all.  Once you introduce payment ( not straight grants) for which work is expected you introduce the law and that will lead to Bopsman cases etc.  It is indeed the slippery s;ope to proffisionalism and we will end up going the way of Rugby in this country.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 19, 2007, 11:44:56 AM
I dont think we can do much about this drain - apart from ressurect the international rules series and hope that aussie teams will for some reason NOT pick our players
Other than this, I cant see why aussie clubs would agree to pay the GAA money for lads they can get for free.
It is a different sporting code after all.
If a deal could be brokered then maybe, but I really doubt that this would happen.

All I can hope for is that the amount of young players going over is kept to a minimum.
We could live with that.
the likes of Colin corkery, John O'Driscoll, Anthony Tohill and Dermot mc Nicholl all benefitted from a year or two's aussie rules training, but didnt like being a way so came home. Hope there are more like that.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Hardy on November 19, 2007, 11:58:40 AM
Fair play, Bogball for suggesting something - more than anybody else has thought of to date anyway. I can see some sense in your proposals. I can't see how anyone in favour of scholarships for academically-minded players with potential could object to employment for non-academic players with potential. And there is some logic in the position that if we are to do something about players being lured away with money, then the solution has to involve money and we are in a Hobson's choice position - we either accept the need to pay money in certain circumstances or accept our future role as unpaid nursery organisation for the professional AFL.

It could be seen as the thin end of the professionalism wedge, it would be fraught with problems in selecting the beneficiaries and zoyler's points make sense too but, viewed as essentially an extension of the scholarship scheme and limited to players below a certain age, it's not altogether off the wall.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Mike Sheehy on November 19, 2007, 08:02:11 PM
Professionalism in the GAA is coming and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. I dont particularily want to see it happen but cant see any way of stopping it. As for young lads joining AFL we have no right to stop it. If you are a  good young engineer, lawyer, whatever, how would you react if someone tried to limit your prospects ? 

 I have already come to the conclusion that I will try and enjoy whatever success Kerry have now becasue 10-15 years from now professionalism will be here and we, Kerry, will not be able to compete at the highest level with the major population centers. We'll probably be like Laois are today, there or thereabouts but not quite strong enough. It'll be dominated by Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on November 19, 2007, 09:05:30 PM
Professionalism in the GAA is coming . It'll be dominated by Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway.

Hardly by Galway -- in football anyway - as they wouldnt get any crowds. :P
Seriously though it's a frightening thought . As Professionals and therefore employees it will be highest bidder gets the best players so no hope ever for the Carlows Leitrims,Roscommons Cavans etc etc.
However if we end up with 8 or 10 artificial professional sides who'll be bothered going to watch them play each other 6 or 7 times a year ? I couldnt see it lasting more that 5 or 6 years till the whole thing would die of boredom and lack of interest.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on November 19, 2007, 10:10:04 PM
Interesting post Bogball - but you have overlooked the giggest flaw of all.  Once you introduce payment ( not straight grants) for which work is expected you introduce the law and that will lead to Bopsman cases etc.  It is indeed the slippery s;ope to proffisionalism and we will end up going the way of Rugby in this country.
Rugby seem to have worked the system via the centralised contracts system, ie GAA at Croke Park are the employer, but you're right, everything would have to take account of whatever the relevant legislation is, I think that could be overcome, I feel the most contentious issues would be within counties, and as to who exactly would get what contracts, of course that would always be the way unless every player was getting the same.
One interesting thing to come out of the system I proposed, the leagues might take on a bit more importance, relegation battles would be that wee bit more intense!!
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Frank Casey on November 19, 2007, 10:13:54 PM
I sadly agree with Mike Sheehy on this. The pro game will kill the GAA as we know it and we'll end up with less than a dozen viable "franchises". There's another thread going on about the development of GAA in Britain. Maybe we'd end up with a British or North American outfit. Although if this is as successful as the attempt to bring an english soccer team to Dublin a few years ago then I don't know. I think they ended up in Milton Keynes.

We've seen a number of Scottish and Welsh rugby teams go under following professionalism. The League of Ireland lurches from one financial crisis to another and thats only on a semi-pro basis.

Please don't kill the GAA family as we know it for a few franchises - cos thats all they's be.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stiffler on December 08, 2007, 12:30:44 AM
From BBC:


Tyrone youngster gets AFL trial 
 
Kyle Coney impressed for Tyrone minors this year
Tyrone minor star Kyle Coney will travel to Australia next June for a two-week trial with the Sydney Swans.
The 17-year-old Ardboe clubman is the latest young GAA star to be targeted by an Australian Rules club.

Tadhg Kennelly and Carlow's Brendan Murphy are already on the books of the Sydney AFL club, who watched Coney during this year's All-Ireland MFC.

Coney, who has been tipped as a future Tyrone senior star, has said that he will not "rush into any decision".

The news is likely to disappoint Tyrone senior manager Mickey Harte, who is vocal in his opposition to the GAA's links with the Australian code.

Down lad Martin Clarke accepted a contract with AFL club Collingwood last year and he has made a huge impression in the oval ball game in his first full season Down Under.
 
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: ziggysego on December 08, 2007, 01:02:40 AM
Disappointed that we could lose yet another star to the AFL in Australian. However it is an unbelieveable opportunity, so if Kyle decides to go for it, I wish him all the very best of luck.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 12:17:41 PM
I've been saying now a long time that these Aussies should NOT be allowed to just come over here, tap you on the shoulder and walk away with your prized asset - I know Kyle is from my own club but I was saying the same thing all along - if they're going to do it - make them pay the club / county he's leaving - in this case Ardboe / Tyrone would have devoted a lot of time and resources to Kyle ( as well as a lot of others )

I agree with Ziggy - good luck to him  - he's a nice lad and fair play - he's talented but I really resent the Aussies coming here and walking away without having to incur a financial penalty.

Mickey Harte was and is right - don't engage with the Aussies.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Puckoon on December 08, 2007, 12:46:43 PM
no chance (nor should there be) of that ever happening. these players are not properties of the club.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tayto on December 08, 2007, 04:21:03 PM
I think this is a full-blown crisis for the game. And I have no idea what to do about it.
I think we have to offer them an alternative - that alternative has to involve allowing them the opportunity to live the life of a professional athlete.  I know we can't afford the money that AFL clubs can offer (although my understanding is that it's pittance unless they make the grade, which is probably why Cavanagh turned it down).  I do think however that we can offer enough to ensure that lads get a chance at living the dream for a while.  We have enough money to waste on stupid unneeded stadia, maybe we should think about spending some of that money on the players, without who, we wouldn't have a game, no matter how many volunteers sweep the changing rooms and line the pitches.
The paid players would be essentially full time gaa coaches in schools etc, they'd be available for other duties within the county too - this would take up most of their mornings, the rest of their days could be spent on their training programme.  I would envisage a salary around €30K p.a for this - it won't make them rich, but it will adequately provide for them until they decide they've got to take a real job.  They would be helped in every way with skills for a future career, be it tradesmen to professional.  There could be a second tier of players too, those who wish to work part time, give them a grant of €15K p.a, just enough to help them fund their dedication to their sport.  The other inter-county players could be paid lower sums, up to 5K p.a.
The amount of each type of bursary to be allocated to each county could be decided by their league division, with hurling and football treated equally, in fact a little too much time on my hands I've come up with the following:

Bursary:     30,000          15,000          5,000          2,000
Division 1      4                   4                  15              10
Division 2      2                   2                   5               24
Division 3      1                   2                   4               26
Division 4      1                   1                   3               28

In total this would amount to €9.3M - if the govt were still going to input their €5M, the GAA could come up with a further €4.9M p.a (if we look at the money the GPA bring in, the GAA could easily bring in this amount for players payment from sponsors and commerical deals, oh yeah, a side benefit, this should remove the need for the GPA to exist anymore)  It's not particularly expensive and it might help stem the talent drain.  Another reason why I feel we should go down the pay for play route, is that our immigrant population will not be attracted to play our games unless there is the chance to play professionally (allbeit limited).  I know there are many flaws in the proposal above, sorry, make that, many, many flaws - but I also think it's easily affordable and maybe it's time we considered something along these lines?  We'd need to introduce things like balloon payments, centralised contracts, arbitration committees, standardised qualification criteria......

One other thing Dubsforsam has pointed out, getting money from ozzie clubs is an absolute non-runner, if they want to donate the money fine, I can't see it happening, but....  Btw, what would the club do with the money, build a new stand?



interesting idea there bogball, i can see some merit in that but look at rugby, apparently even the biggest rugby clubs are fielding about half the teams they did before professionalism was introduced 10 years ago. If we do go down the semi-professional route then we'd better be prepared to lose a lot of volunteers + clubs. Professional or semi-professional players could be asked to play a lot more games.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: the Deel Rover on December 08, 2007, 05:32:31 PM
 i have been involved with a club all my life  down the road i hope my son plays all sports and i will encourage him to do so hopefull he has the same gra for gaelic games as i do and i hope that i will be bringing him training, driving him to matches, fundraising ect and support him and our club just as my parents have done for me. If for e.g he was good enough (doubtfull if he has many of my genes) to be asked to go for trials and play in Australia why should the club benefit financially as they have no rights to him and he is not the property of the club.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tayto on December 08, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
The thinking is that a club that invests so much time coaching a younfella so maybe they're entitled to a bit of compensation. Obviously there's no way to enforce this as the AFL is a different code altogether, the only way would be n the AFL and GAA come to some agreement and without the IR there's no reason for the AFL to agree to this. 
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on December 08, 2007, 07:12:49 PM
The thinking is that a club that invests so much time coaching a younfella so maybe they're entitled to a bit of compensation. Obviously there's no way to enforce this as the AFL is a different code altogether, the only way would be n the AFL and GAA come to some agreement and without the IR there's no reason for the AFL to agree to this. 

So if someone moves to another club in the contry do they have to pay as well???
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tyrone exile on December 08, 2007, 07:31:16 PM
The thinking is that a club that invests so much time coaching a younfella so maybe they're entitled to a bit of compensation. Obviously there's no way to enforce this as the AFL is a different code altogether, the only way would be n the AFL and GAA come to some agreement and without the IR there's no reason for the AFL to agree to this. 

Why should they pay, when a young lad decides to go play soccer, and quits Gaelic, there is no big argument. Why should clubs receive anything, are they out of money for him leaving? one player can not make a club money especially a big club like ardboe. I think that its getting to a point when any players try and do well for themselves there is an immediate outcry by the so called "Grassroot" members! lads that are asked to play Aussie rules have the chance to make a living doing something they want to do. Why would anyone begrudge them that?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 08:21:24 PM
If there was a good young soccer player and a big English club came in for him, would there be a fee or not ?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tyrone exile on December 08, 2007, 08:24:40 PM
of course there would be, if he had a contract and teh english club wanted him then obviously they would have to pay to break that contract, but incase youse boys havnt noticed, players arnt contracted in gaelic, there free to play whatever they wanted.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 08:31:12 PM
But you'd be fairly pissed off if you had a rising star and the Aussies come in, tap him on the shoulder and he's away - I've been saying this for an awful long time and it's not because Kyle is from my own club.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tyrone exile on December 08, 2007, 08:34:52 PM
we may have the right to be pissed of, but we have no right to try and stop, just imagine the opportunities that will be opened to Kyle if he does go
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 08:37:35 PM
I've never said at any stage that he should be stopped - in fact if you look at one of my posts yesterday, I said good luck to him !

My point is and always has been that AFL is big business - they are now increasingly looking to Ireland for FREEBIES !
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tyrone exile on December 08, 2007, 08:43:58 PM
look at my initial post and you will realise that it was not directed towards what you sayed, you just happen to reply.
These teams are trying to better there teams, if they see talent in ireland why wouldnt they go for them? it is not as ifs these players ae walking onto aussie rules teams, the coaches have to also put alot of work in
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 08:55:27 PM
When Dessie and the boys have this pay for play strategy working properly in a few years time and when players are getting good money, maybe we'll be able to bring Australian footballers over to play for the top clubs in Ireland ??  :)

There will probably be a premier league and some of these big Aussies might help our teams as well ?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on December 08, 2007, 10:00:25 PM
When Dessie and the boys have this pay for play strategy working properly in a few years time and when players are getting good money, maybe we'll be able to bring Australian footballers over to play for the top clubs in Ireland ??  :)

There will probably be a premier league and some of these big Aussies might help our teams as well ?
There's an idea, Ardboe new full forward Bruce Dipperdomenico, Moortown were claiming him, but he's got kin in Ardboe.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 08, 2007, 11:24:27 PM
Has Barry Hall any brothers ?  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 09, 2007, 07:14:04 PM
Good luck to him surely - if he makes it great  - it's just a pity that these great players that go to OZ are lost to us here -
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: loughshore lad on December 10, 2007, 08:42:54 AM
What do you make of the fact Canavan will be going out with Kyle to act as his "advisor"?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 10, 2007, 10:01:54 AM
Where did that come from Loughshore ? Advisor ? You mean agent ? :D ;D
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: ykickamoocow on December 10, 2007, 09:50:53 PM
These teams are trying to better there teams, if they see talent in ireland why wouldnt they go for them? it is not as ifs these players ae walking onto aussie rules teams, the coaches have to also put alot of work in

Very true. Irish players require alot more 1 on 1 attention than than most other young players as for some they need to learn new skills which are already present in regular young players (eg kicking the ball). Gaelic Football and Aussie Rules are similar in many important ways but they also have quite afew differences and these need to be taught to the young Irish recruits which does take more time.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: parttimeexile on December 11, 2007, 08:46:20 AM
Could someone explain to me how reintroducing the compromise rules would stop the Aussies taking players as this is what some people seem to believe.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 11, 2007, 04:41:01 PM
The Aussies are here to stay - my point all along is make them pay or get something in  return !
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on December 11, 2007, 08:57:29 PM
Could someone explain to me how reintroducing the compromise rules would stop the Aussies taking players as this is what some people seem to believe.
Because then the AFL and GAA would put a structure in place to ensure that only x amount of players could be recruited from ireland and so on.....  Basically, the few million they'd make from the international rules far outweighs the chance of recruiting a few irish lads who probably won't make it.  They could also perhaps work out a compensation scheme, although personally I think that'd be totally unfair on the players.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2007, 09:54:11 PM
I'm not so sure that would happen Bogball.

The perception always was before that there was a "gentlemans agreement" when the compromise rules were in place the aussies wouldn't steal our players. I don't think this was ever the case.

Realistically no-one owns any of "our" players and therefore no-one can stop them going. Some people reckon that money should be paid. Who should it be paid to? The county/ the club/ the GAA itself?

Realistically with this "ownership" thing money can never change hands and no-one can cap how many players can go to Oz.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on December 11, 2007, 10:13:58 PM
I'm not so sure that would happen Bogball.

The perception always was before that there was a "gentlemans agreement" when the compromise rules were in place the aussies wouldn't steal our players. I don't think this was ever the case.

Realistically no-one owns any of "our" players and therefore no-one can stop them going. Some people reckon that money should be paid. Who should it be paid to? The county/ the club/ the GAA itself?

Realistically with this "ownership" thing money can never change hands and no-one can cap how many players can go to Oz.
I agree Tommygunn, but, I think the GAA and AFL would/could come to an agreement that only x amount of players max could be taken who had a gaa background.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stephenite on December 11, 2007, 10:55:00 PM
Realistically with this "ownership" thing money can never change hands and no-one can cap how many players can go to Oz.

Exactly, the notion that the Aussies will pay somebody some money for somthing when they don't have to is just ludicrous, it's stupid, unrealistic and frankly those that keep banging on about it are becoming triesome.
AFL clubs are businesses and anyone who agreed to give an Irish club a cent for a player they could have got for free would be sacked on the spot.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2007, 12:24:03 AM
If they cap it then how do they cap it? First come first served on that x number among clubs? I can't see how they can cap things either to be honest.

Money can never change hands on any of this - never. No one has any rites whatsoever to any player so like stephenite says it's luidcrous.

It's like a soccer player playing for something like an u14 soccer club and manchester united coming in for the player. Would man united give the money? No and why the hell should they because that u14 club would not have the rites to that player - it is entirely voluntary.


Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: darbyo on December 12, 2007, 12:34:56 AM
I think Man United do have to pay for that 14 year old.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on December 12, 2007, 12:39:45 AM
Realistically with this "ownership" thing money can never change hands and no-one can cap how many players can go to Oz.

Exactly, the notion that the Aussies will pay somebody some money for somthing when they don't have to is just ludicrous, it's stupid, unrealistic and frankly those that keep banging on about it are becoming triesome.
AFL clubs are businesses and anyone who agreed to give an Irish club a cent for a player they could have got for free would be sacked on the spot.
I'm not suggesting that wold agree to pay clubs, simply that if the AFL and GAA were back in contact re the international rules, it would be quite easy to have the AFL include a proviso in their own rules that they can only recruit 'x' amount of irish players over 'x' time period.  They already have something along those lines in their rules regarding 'international rookies', so it wouldn't be much effort to extend it.  The carrot for the AFL would be the international rules restarting and the several million of profit p.a from that - as I've stated earlier, that's money in the bank and worth a helluva lot more than recruiting some young lad who might turn out to the next Kennelly or Clarke.  What's the success ratio at present - 10% max?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stephenite on December 12, 2007, 01:05:42 AM
Realistically with this "ownership" thing money can never change hands and no-one can cap how many players can go to Oz.

Exactly, the notion that the Aussies will pay somebody some money for somthing when they don't have to is just ludicrous, it's stupid, unrealistic and frankly those that keep banging on about it are becoming triesome.
AFL clubs are businesses and anyone who agreed to give an Irish club a cent for a player they could have got for free would be sacked on the spot.
I'm not suggesting that wold agree to pay clubs, simply that if the AFL and GAA were back in contact re the international rules, it would be quite easy to have the AFL include a proviso in their own rules that they can only recruit 'x' amount of irish players over 'x' time period.  They already have something along those lines in their rules regarding 'international rookies', so it wouldn't be much effort to extend it.  The carrot for the AFL would be the international rules restarting and the several million of profit p.a from that - as I've stated earlier, that's money in the bank and worth a helluva lot more than recruiting some young lad who might turn out to the next Kennelly or Clarke.  What's the success ratio at present - 10% max?


The International Rules, is, in my opinion a dead duck, and I am a supporter of the concept. The Aussies look on it as a junket and a chance to beat up on some Irish boys, the clubs and players will never be willing to have any disciplinary issues or bans to carry over into their own competitions. Even if the Rules series is played again, surely any agreement between the AFL and GAA is a 'gentlemans agreement' and not legally binding, so what's to stop the AFL clubs coming out of their own back and snapping up who they want?

There is no solution to this issue in my opinion and that's unfortunate - but unless we can compete with the AFL in terms of payments to players then we will always have a situation where some of the best of our talent disappears to play AFL. These lads, almost to a man want the opportunity to be full time professional athletes. Recent events in the GAA show that the majority of our members will be very reluctant to change our games to allow young Irish footballers this opportunity at home.

To sum up - we either go full time pro or let a handful each year try their luck at AFL and hope they come back eventually. A sad scenario but realistic in my opinon.

But can we please stop demanding that AFL pay the GAA some form of compensation, it ain't ever gonna happen.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: zoyler on December 13, 2007, 10:13:51 AM
Stememite is right to say that there is no way a club or county can erxpect money to change hands when a youngster goes to Aussie Rules but Bogball is also right to say that a resumption of International Rules would help the situation in so far as it would enable the GAA & AFL to establish gidelines covering the recruitment of these lads. 

The AFL are both anxious to have an international outlet and maintain a good public image.  Enormous damage has been done to this image by the behaviour of many of their leading players and particularly thr drug culture that existed in Perth with the Eagles.  The last thing they need are accusations about exploiting vunerable young lads thousands of miles from home which is why they would be keen to have a code of conduct in place.  Surely this would also suit the GAA,
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: ykickamoocow on December 13, 2007, 09:56:05 PM
Irish invasion headed for AFL

SYDNEY SWANS import Tadhg Kennelly expects the number of Irish AFL players to treble in the next few years, but would like to see compensation for the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA).

Kennelly's trailblazing efforts in the Swans 2005 premiership and the remarkable debut season by Collingwood's Martin Clarke in 2007 has reignited the influx of Irish footballers to Australia with another four drafted to AFL clubs earlier this week.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg, according to the Sydney defender, as most of those targeted by AFL talent scouts resist the advances to move to Australia.

Some fear being labelled a traitor for leaving their County sides, while most of the better players are offered incentives by the GAA to stay in Ireland.

“People probably don't know it but there's probably been 20 people offered in the last eight years that I've been here and a lot haven't taken up on it,” said Kennelly.

“A lot of the guys in the better Countys decide not to come because they want to win an Ireland medal, which is something they've always dreamed about.

“It's not a flood of players coming out (yet) - there's 10 players here now but in two or three years time there could be 30 and that's a flood.

“I say to any player in Ireland who has an opportunity to come out here that it's a win-win situation and there's no way you can lose.”

Gaelic footballers in Ireland are not paid professionals, however recent strike action has led to a $5 million fund set up to compensate the amateurs for their time each season.

Kennelly said the AFL's attempts to recruit Irish players should not come at the expense of the Gaelic competition and supported calls for monetary compensation for the local teams.

“The last thing I want is to see the GAA or the game itself suffer,” he said.

“We're taking the best players so it's obviously going to affect the game. Being an amateur association and sport there is always the lure for players to go and play more professional sport.

“Some agreement or policy is going to have to come to terms with the GAA and AFL.”

He also urged the AFL and GAA to put aside the bitterness from the violent 2006 International Rules series and resurrect the competition.

Kennelly said almost all of Ireland's players want the annual fixture against Australia to return.

“There was a survey sent out to the 31 players (from the last game) and it was 85 per cent who would do it again,” said Kennelly.

“What we need is to get a relationship back going between the GAA and the AFL. The relationship is sour at the moment because of International Rules.

“At home a lot of it was the media went berserk, absolutely crazy and there was a lot of heated reaction. I think the players have always wanted it in Ireland.

“It's a great opportunity, but if anything it's all been taken too serious. At the end of the day it's just two exhibition games.”

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22919508-23211,00.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 14, 2007, 09:52:13 AM
Kennelly recognises that the GAA / clubs / county board shopuld be compensated for the AFL taking Ireland's best talent - I've maintained this all along and a lot of people laughed at it - fair play to Kennelly - he can see what a loss Ireland's best players are to the clubs etc.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Bogball XV on December 14, 2007, 10:58:00 AM
I feel your pain Orangeman, but seriously it's a non-runner really - the question is, would money in any way would recompense Ardboe for the loss of Kyle Coney?  If Frank McGuigan had been signed up by Sydney Swans in 1973, but Ardboe were paid a few quid, would that ever have made up for the loss?  Of course not, I would argue that money couldn't recompense at all, it's what the GAA is about, pride in the parish etc, the fact that one of your own has went on to become a legend.  I reckon if he's playing in a grand final in 3/4 years time, sure the whole of Ardboe will be bedecked in team colours and you'll all be up all night long waiting for the game and all that goes with it.
Just be glad for the lad and sure if he doesn't make it, he come back as twice the footballer, look at big Tohill.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: orangeman on December 14, 2007, 11:02:38 AM
I know exactly what you're saying and I agree with you almost 100 % - it would be great to see him succeed out there and we'd all be behind him - but my point is that the AFL are taking our best talent for nothing.

Tadgh Kennelly concedes that the AFL should pay some compensation and I agree.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: robertemmet on December 14, 2007, 11:06:57 AM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: ballinaman on October 18, 2016, 01:26:21 PM
Mark O Connor signing for Geelong. Blow to Kerry
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Jinxy on October 18, 2016, 02:44:52 PM
Serves them right.
That's what you get for developing young players.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: imtommygunn on October 18, 2016, 02:51:17 PM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?

How many of these have actually worked out?? Is Tuohy back or still playing? What about Martyn? All the rest are back playing.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on October 18, 2016, 02:56:31 PM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?

How many of these have actually worked out?? Is Tuohy back or still playing? What about Martyn? All the rest are back playing.

Don't think Michael Martin even left in the end. Was in or around the Galway squad for a while but off it now. Still playing for his club.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Tyrone Gaa on October 18, 2016, 03:03:52 PM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?

How many of these have actually worked out?? Is Tuohy back or still playing? What about Martyn? All the rest are back playing.

Don't think Michael Martin even left in the end. Was in or around the Galway squad for a while but off it now. Still playing for his club.

Kyle Coney is back and isn't county standard, Kevin Dyas is also back at his club, not sure why he wasn't on the Armagh panel this year.  If you want to throw in Marty Clarke and Caolan Mooney from Down they didn't make the cut, for different reasons.  Ulster lads don't seem to fair too well in Oz

Conor McKenna seems to be doing well with Essendon although he is still very young.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on October 18, 2016, 03:21:29 PM
 Ulster lads don't seem to fair too well in Oz


Probably because no one can understand them :D

Ballaghaderreen's Pearce Hanley has moved clubs - to the Gold Coast Suns(!!!!)
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: TabClear on October 18, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?

How many of these have actually worked out?? Is Tuohy back or still playing? What about Martyn? All the rest are back playing.

Don't think Michael Martin even left in the end. Was in or around the Galway squad for a while but off it now. Still playing for his club.

Kyle Coney is back and isn't county standard, Kevin Dyas is also back at his club, not sure why he wasn't on the Armagh panel this year.  If you want to throw in Marty Clarke and Caolan Mooney from Down they didn't make the cut, for different reasons.  Ulster lads don't seem to fair too well in Oz

Conor McKenna seems to be doing well with Essendon although he is still very young.

Tuohy and Pearce Hanley would be regulars for their respective clubs.  Hanley in particular very highly thought of and has just traded to gold coast. Sheeehan I think is at Calton and has done reasonably well in the few matches I've seen him play.

Mckenna was in and out of the Essendon team this year and did ok. They were missing something like 15 first team players all this year due to a performance drugs issue so it's hard to see him making an impact when they return in 2017
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tonto1888 on October 18, 2016, 03:50:11 PM
So who are the Irish Lads being targeted this year

Carlow - Brendan Murphy
Galway - Michael Martyn
Laois - Zac Tuohy
Cork - Michael Shields, Ciaran Sheehan
Tyrone - Karl Coney
Armagh - Kevin Dyas

Is there any more?

How many of these have actually worked out?? Is Tuohy back or still playing? What about Martyn? All the rest are back playing.

Don't think Michael Martin even left in the end. Was in or around the Galway squad for a while but off it now. Still playing for his club.

Kyle Coney is back and isn't county standard, Kevin Dyas is also back at his club, not sure why he wasn't on the Armagh panel this year.  If you want to throw in Marty Clarke and Caolan Mooney from Down they didn't make the cut, for different reasons.  Ulster lads don't seem to fair too well in Oz

Conor McKenna seems to be doing well with Essendon although he is still very young.

Dyas was injured for most of the year I think
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tippabu on July 27, 2017, 09:14:30 PM
Jack kennedy from tipp travelled over today for a two week trial....will be yet another massive loss to tipp football if he ends up there
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: nrico2006 on July 28, 2017, 08:56:22 AM
Didn't Glass make his debut last weekend?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: AZOffaly on July 28, 2017, 09:06:07 AM
Jack kennedy from tipp travelled over today for a two week trial....will be yet another massive loss to tipp football if he ends up there

Fucks sake. I don't mean this in a bad way, but I hope he doesn't end up there. Colin O'Riordan going there is a massive loss, coupled with Stephen O'Brien's decision to warm the bench for the hurlers. Jack Kennedy going as well would be a big blow.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: magpie seanie on July 28, 2017, 09:07:46 AM
Didn't Glass make his debut last weekend?


Supposed to have done well, has retained his place for this week.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: omagh_gael on July 28, 2017, 11:43:12 AM
Conor McKenna appears to be going very well over there. He's the sort of player we could really do with in the FF line, though!

http://m.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/hes-got-some-real-talent-aussie-rules-star-on-conor-mckennas-rise-in-the-afl-and-his-peculiar-diet-35826876.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tonto1888 on July 28, 2017, 09:02:24 PM
I seen something saying Rian O'Neill was going also
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: tippabu on July 28, 2017, 10:21:19 PM
I seen something saying Rian O'Neill was going also

Yep, himself and Jack are the two after heading over
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stew on July 29, 2017, 01:37:02 PM
Mickey Harte was right - cut the links - or else make them pay the clubs.

Muckey Hare is partially right, cut ties, we are amateurs and therefore no monies will change hands.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on July 29, 2017, 04:22:46 PM
Ties or no ties they'll still come looking for talent. It's a free world and all that.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: oakleaflad on October 15, 2018, 12:26:34 PM
Anton Tohill, son of Anthony, has signed for Collingwood.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 16, 2018, 05:14:28 PM
Anton Tohill, son of Anthony, has signed for Collingwood.

Mark Keane from Cork has signed for Collingwood as well.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: snoopdog on October 16, 2018, 06:10:15 PM
If these guys are good enough to get the chance to play a sport professionally and earn a living at it then good luck to them.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: REDCOL on October 16, 2018, 07:38:59 PM
Good Luck to any lad that wants to go out to Australia and make a new life for himself. I read there is 11 Irish currently contracted hardly a huge drain on our game.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: larryin89 on October 16, 2018, 08:55:50 PM
What's the story with Sean Andy (Galway) , was he successful in his trial ?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 17, 2018, 03:48:50 PM
What's the story with Sean Andy (Galway) , was he successful in his trial ?

You're very interested in what Galway players are up to these days! It wasn't like this a few years ago.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 17, 2018, 04:03:42 PM
In other news I see Stefan Okunbor has signed for Geelong, another blow for Kerry as he looked like he'd make the step up to the senior team from his u20 performances.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 17, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
A good breakdown on the Irish AFL experiment

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-the-afl-s-irish-experiment-through-the-years-1.3634934?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fgaa-statistics-the-afl-s-irish-experiment-through-the-years-1.3634934
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: larryin89 on October 17, 2018, 04:56:51 PM
What's the story with Sean Andy (Galway) , was he successful in his trial ?

You're very interested in what Galway players are up to these days! It wasn't like this a few years ago.

So long as you're over for salthil  if we make it , no shying away now .
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Chimley on October 23, 2018, 09:42:41 AM
Missed this earlier but I see that James Madden from Dublin has joined the ranks of our foreign legion with the Brisbane Lions.

http://www.lions.com.au/news/2018-08-14/madden-signs-for-2019
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: magpie seanie on October 23, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
A good breakdown on the Irish AFL experiment

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-the-afl-s-irish-experiment-through-the-years-1.3634934?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fgaa-statistics-the-afl-s-irish-experiment-through-the-years-1.3634934


Can someone paste that up....it's behind a pay wall.

Red Óg Murphy from Sligo heading over in January I understand. Massive loss to Curry and Sligo GAA.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
Good player right enough.
Surprised to see a Dublin buck going.
Smug Jim must have enough playing staff on the books ::)
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 23, 2018, 04:30:25 PM
All these four are confirmed as having signed contracts

Anton Tohill (Derry)Collingwood
Mark Keane (Cork) Collingwood
James Madden (Dublin) Brisbane Lions
Stefan Okunbar (Kerry) Geelong

I thought I saw something that Callum Brown was signed a while back to Greater Western Sydney Giants but I couldn't find confirmation of it anywhere.
Tohill’s cousin Oisín McWilliams was another I heard there was interest in.


Can someone paste that up....it's behind a pay wall.

Red Óg Murphy from Sligo heading over in January I understand. Massive loss to Curry and Sligo GAA.

Has Red Óg Murphy signed a contract or is he going for a trial.

4 confirmed signed contracts already and another 3 possibles mean it could be the best/worst year in a long time.

Quote
GAA Statistics: The AFL's 'Irish Experiment' through the years

Irish players are collectively performing better than ever in the AFL
Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 07:00
 Eamon Donoghue
 
Since Paul Earley went to Melbourne in 1983 Irish players have departed for the AFL from 22 different counties, but there’s never been more of them down under than in the past two seasons. And collectively, they are performing better than ever.

James Madden will become the 53rd Irish player to come through the AFL system, having signed with the Brisbane Lions last month.

After setting a new AFL Draft Combine (final trials) 20-metre sprint record last year he’ll become the sixth player from the capital to make the switch to the small oval ball. Only Cork have had as many, Kerry have lost five players, there’s been four apiece from Kildare, Laois and Derry, three each from Down and Mayo, and two from Roscommon, Tyrone, Louth and Westmeath.

In 2018, there were 12 Irish players in the AFL system; in 2017 there was a record high of 13. There were 11 in 2009 and 2016, and 10 in 2011 and 2015. In 2009, seven of the players involved would never make an AFL appearance, whereas from the current crop only Cillian McDaid has yet to play and he has only recently completed his first season.

Lucky
Prior to 2008, the highest number of Irish players in one year in Australia was seven (in 1990), and since then the lowest has been six in 2014. The years 1999 and 2000 have been the only ones since Earley’s arrival that no Irish player has been involved and there’s been an average of five players over there per season.

In total, only 24 Irish players have gone on to make appearances in the AFL though -  28 have not. The lucky 24 have made a total of 1,272 appearances, making an average 24 appearances per player. Nine players have played more matches than the average and they make up 92 per cent of the overall appearances. Sean Wright, Jim Stynes, Tadhg Kennelly, Pearce Hanley and Zach Tuohy make up 73 per cent.

On average, one player has been recruited per year since 1983 – with a record of six coming over in 2015 – but in 1984, 1987, 1988, and from 1992 to 2000, no players were recruited. That spell, which ended with Kennelly leaving the Kingdom for Sydney, followed a run of five players who all went home without making an appearance. In fact, Kennelly and Setanta Ó hAilpin were the only two in a stretch of 12 recruitments to progress and make a senior appearance.

Irish players (not including those who still remain with clubs) stay in the AFL system, on average, for a little over two years. Twenty-one players have stayed beyond that and only six for more than five years.

The late Stynes won the Brownlow medal – awarded by the AFL to the “best and fairest” player during the regular season – in 1991, and Kennelly became the first Irish-born winner of the AFL Premiership in 2005. However, the player with the best seasons-to-appearances ratio is Down’s Marty Clarke, who played 73 games over three years (average of 24 per season). Next is Laois native Tuohy, with 168 appearances in eight years, edging Stynes who averaged 20 appearances per season (over 13 years) and Kennelly who averaged 18.

Goals
This season Conor Nash became only the 16th Irish player to score an AFL goal. Stynes, Ó hAilpin, Mayo man Hanley and Tuohy have accounted for 68 per cent of the 476 goals scored overall. Aside from Earley, who scored one goal in his one appearance, Ó hAilpin has the best scoring ratio with a goal in 93 per cent of his 88 matches. Next best was Kerry’s Tommy Walsh with three goals in five matches, while Stynes scored in 49 per cent of his 264 matches. He scored 130 in all. Hanley has the most of the current Irish players with 59.

Since Tommy Walsh left Australia in 2014, 13 other Irish players have also returned home. Not including Ray Connellan, who only came back to Westmeath last month, five of the last 13 returning Irish players have yet to start an intercounty championship match since making their GAA comebacks. Nevertheless, 10 players in 36 years have returned to Ireland and subsequently won at least one All Star.

Madden hails from the same Ballyboden St Enda’s club as Stynes and the 18-year-old arrives at an exciting time for the Irish contingent in Australia. From the 10 players already over there (Connellan and Cian Hanley both departed during the year), they have a combined average of 43 appearances and 13 goals.

Nash, a former Meath minor and Leinster academy rugby player,  told Off the Ball AM last month that efforts to create a mini Irish community has been key to this. Despite lads playing for opposing teams, “there’s a lot of us here in Melbourne so we do meet up and if you were feeling homesick a bit, you’d just flick one of the lads a text and meet up to catch up. We have a great bunch here at the moment, and anytime one of us makes the debut it’s thrown into the WhatsApp group. ‘There’s another one, keep them coming’ – Tadgh Kennelly always sends that one in. And we just want to see as many Irish boys out there as we can each week, it really is a massive thing for all of us.”

The “Irish experiment” has largely been about the outstanding progression of the few making up for the disappointments of the many, but these lads seem intent on that changing. And so far so good.


*All the Irish players that have come through the AFL system and found themselves on a senior playing list (bolded means they are currently attached to a club):

Paul Earley (Melbourne), 1983-84, 1 game, 1 goal
Sean Wight (Melbourne), 1985-95, 150 games, 63 goals
Jim Stynes (Melbourne), 1986-98, 264 games, 130 goals
Dermott McNicholl (St Kilda), 1989-1990; played 3 games, 1 goal
Brian Stynes (Melbourne), 1989-1993; played 2 games, 0 goals
Tom Grehan (Melbourne),  1989, 0 games, 0 goals
Anthony Tohill (Melbourne), 1990-91, 0 games, 0 goals
Colin Corkery (Carlton), 1990, 0 games, 0 goals
Colum McManmon (Geelong), 1990, 0 games, 0 goals
Niall Buckley (Melbourne), 1991, 0 games, 0 goals
Tadhg Kennelly (Sydney), 2001-11, 197 games, 30 goals
Bernie Collins (Western Bulldogs), 2001-02, 0 games, 0 goals
Kevin Devine (Melbourne), 2001, 0 games, 0 goals
Nicholas Walsh (Melbourne), 2002-03, 0 games, 0 goals
Declan O’Mahoney (Sydney), 2003, 0 games, 0 goals
Setanta O hAilpin (Carlton/GWS Giants), 2004-13, 88 games, 82 goals
Aisake O hAilpin (Carlton), 2005-08, 0 games, 0 goals
Colm Begley (Brisbane/St Kilda), 2006-09, 30 games, 7 goals
Brendan Quigley (Brisbane), 2006, 0 games, 0 goals
Martin Clarke (Collingwood), 2007-09, 2012-14, 73 games, 19 goals
Brendan Murphy (Sydney), 2008-09, 0 games, 0 goals
Kevin Dyas (Collingwood), 2008-09, 0 games, 0 goals
Pearce Hanley (Brisbane/Gold Coast), 2008-18, 145 games, 59 goals
Michael Shields (Carlton), 2008, 0 games, 0 goals
Kyle Coney (Sydney), 2009, 0 games, 0 goals
Brian Donnelly (Adelaide), 2009-10, 0 games, 0 goals
Michael Quinn (Essendon), 2009-11, 8 games, 2 goals
Conor Meredith (North Melbourne), 2009-10, 0 games, 0 goals
Chris McKaigue (Sydney), 2010-11, 0 games, 0 goals
Tommy Walsh (St Kilda/Sydney), 2010-14, 5 games, 3 goals
Jamie O’Reilly (Richmond), 2010-11, 4 games, 0 goals
Niall McKeever (Brisbane), 2011-13, 22 games, 2 goals
Zach Tuohy (Carlton/Geelong), 2011-18, 168 games, 56 goals
Paul Cribbin (Collingwood), 2011-12, 0 games, 0 goals
Caolan Mooney (Collingwood), 2012-14, 6 games, 2 goals
John Heslin (Richmond), 2012, 0 games, 0 goals
Ciaran Kilkenny (Hawthorn), 2013, 0 games, 0 goals
Daniel Flynn (Port Adelaide), 2014-15, 0 games, 0 goals
Ciaran Sheehan (Carlton), 2014-17, 6 games, 0 goals
Ciaran Byrne (Carlton), 2015-18, 22 games, 0 goals
Paddy Brophy (West Coast), 2015-17, 0 games, 0 goals
Sean Hurley (Fremantle), 2015-16, 0 games, 0 goals
Padraig Lucey (Geelong), 2015-16, 0 games, 0 goals
Conor McKenna (Essendon), 2015-18, 51 games, 17 goals
Cian Hanley (Brisbane), 2015-18, 0 games, 0 goals
Conor Glass (Hawthorn), 2016-18, 10 games, 0 goals
Colin O’Riordan (Sydney), 2016-18, 3 games, 0 goals
Ray Connellan (St Kilda), 2017-18, 0 games, 0 goals
Conor Nash (Hawthorn), 2017-18, 5 games, 2 goals
Mark O’Connor (Geelong), 2017-18, 7 games, 0 goals
Darragh Joyce (St Kilda), 2017-18, 2 games, 0 goals
Cillian McDaid (Carlton), 2018, 0 games, 0 goals
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: oakleaflad on October 25, 2018, 09:28:31 AM
Callum Brown has signed for GWS Giants
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 25, 2018, 05:29:45 PM
Then there were five.

Anton Tohill (Derry)Collingwood
Mark Keane (Cork) Collingwood
James Madden (Dublin) Brisbane Lions
Stefan Okunbar (Kerry) Geelong
Callum Brown (Derry)  Greater Western Sydney Giants

Quote
Brown Becomes a GIANT
GIANTS Media  October 25, 2018 8:17 AM

GIANTS Sign Irish Rookie Callum Brown GIANTS welcome Irish recruit Callum Brown to the club as a rookie for the 2019 season. Watch as Leon Cameron talks about what he'll bring to the club.

Callum Brown becomes the first GIANTS mens player to be directly recruited from Ireland.

The GIANTS have welcomed Irish recruit Callum Brown to the club as a rookie for the 2019 season.

Brown is an up-and-coming Gaelic Football star in his home country and is a tall, skillful and athletic prospect.

The 18-year-old was identified by the GIANTS’ Irish scouting program in July 2017 and undertook a 12-month trial process with the club.

He flew to Australia in August to spend two weeks training with the GIANTS under the eye of coach Leon Cameron.

Brown is an Ulster Minor Championship winner and All-Ireland finalist with Derry last year who also won provincial honours with the Oak Leaf U20 side this season.

GIANTS List Manager Jason McCartney said Brown showed plenty of promise.

“Callum really impressed when he spent time at the club earlier this year,” McCartney said.

“He’s an incredibly athletic and skillful player and showed an ability to pick up the nuances of AFL footy during some intensive training sessions.

“We know it takes some time to adapt to our game and we won’t put any pressure on him but as an 18-year-old, he’s a really exciting prospect.”

Brown will move to Australia next month to begin training with the first-to-fourth year players when they return to the club on November 19.

Irish players can be signed directly to a club’s Rookie List under the International Player Rule and do not have to go through the draft.

There's a five minute video with the coach of the Giants.

This is the first Irish recruit this club has signed.

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2018-10-25/brown-becomes-a-giant
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 26, 2018, 04:47:36 PM
Then there were six.

Quote
Roos set to offer Irishman Murphy a rookie deal
Marc McGowan
Oct 26, 2018 4:38PM

THE AFL is set to field a record number of Irishmen in the competition next year, with North Melbourne preparing to table an offer to Gaelic footballer Red Óg Murphy.

Murphy and countryman Oisín McWilliams spent a week trialling at Arden St in August and AFL.com.au understands the Roos have settled on the former.

The news follows a flurry of AFL activity in the Irish space this year.

Ireland's James Madden (Brisbane), Mark Keane and Anton Tohill (Collingwood), Stefan Okunbor (Geelong) and Callum Brown (GWS Giants) have already committed for the 2019 season.

Those arrivals more than offset the exits of Lion Cian Hanley, Carlton's Ciaran Byrne and Cillian McDaid, and Saint Ray Connellan, who retired or were delisted this year.

There will be 14 Irish footballers in the AFL next season if Murphy takes up the Kangaroos' impending contract offer, which will be the standard two years for international rookies.

Murphy is competing for his club side, Curry, against Shamrock Gaels on Sunday in the Kennedys Intermediate final replay after the teams played out a thrilling tie last weekend.

The forward is considered one of his club's and county Sligo's brightest prospects.

His star began to rise from the time he scored 11 points in Sligo's narrow defeat to Derry in their All-Ireland minor quarter-final last year.

The last Irishman on North's list, Conor Meredith, failed to play an AFL game in his two years there are being drafted in 2008.

The Roos have trialled a series of Irish players since, including Barry Reilly and James McCarthy in 2009 and Rian O'Neill and Jack Kennedy in July last year.

They were also interested in Mark O'Connor before he chose to join Geelong two years ago.

North Melbourne used its Category B rookie spot this past season on rower and rugby union player Tom Jeffries, who was delisted after being relegated to grassroots club Avondale Heights when he couldn't earn a VFL game.

West Coast and Essendon are also showing interest in another Irishman, Jordan Morrissey.

Tohill, Keane, Morrissey and countryman Pierce Laverty tested at the NAB AFL Draft Combine in early October.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-26/roos-set-to-offer-irishman-murphy-a-rookie-deal

Jordan Morrisey is from Carlow.

Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 30, 2018, 05:21:30 PM
6 confirmed.


Quote
Red Óg Murphy signs contract with AFL’s North Melbourne

Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 08:32 AM
Daragh Ó Conchúir

North Melbourne have confirmed the signature of Sligo teenager, Red Óg Murphy on a Category B rookie contract, bringing the number of players signed by AFL clubs in the off-season to six.

Murphy joins Derry duo Anton Tohill (Collingwood) and Callum Brown (GWS), Cork’s Mark Keane (Collingwood), Dublin’s James Madden (Brisbane) and Kerry’s Stefan Okunbor (Geelong) as the GAA newbies that will decamp to Australia in the coming weeks to begin pre-season training.


Red Og Murphy of Sligo in action against Conor McCluskey of Derry during the Electric Ireland All-Ireland GAA Football Minor Championship Quarter-Final last year. Photo: Oliver McVeigh/Sportsfile
An underage star who scored 11 points in Sligo’s All-Ireland U20 quarter-final defeat by a Derry side that included Tohill and Brown earlier this year, Murphy impressed on trial with the Arden Street outfit in August.

While news of the development broke prior to the weekend, the Roos coaching staff wanted to hold off on announcing it until after Murphy had played for Curry in the Sligo intermediate final replay, which they lost by three points to Shamrock Gaels on Saturday.

“Red was invited to Arden Street and we were really happy with his ability and character” said North’s general manager of football, Cameron Joyce.

“Our recruiters, and in particular our Pro Scout Nick Byrne, have stayed in touch with him and his family over the past few months and we are really happy to have signed him as a Category B rookie on our list.”

Murphy’s athletic ability and his ball skills stood out while on trial.

We did a variety of tests with Red and he was exceptional. We feel that he has the right foundations to enable him to have a real crack at playing in the AFL and we will give him every chance.

The left-footed attacking player developed a reputation for his vision and finishing, skills that may well see him deployed initially at least, in a counter-attacking half-back role.

With Cian Hanley (Mayo/Brisbane), Ray Connellan (Westmeath/St Kilda), Ciarán Byrne (Louth/Carlton) and Cillian McDaid (Galway/Carlton) either released or calling time on their AFL adventures voluntarily, the GAA contingent Down Under is now at 13.

In all, 24 of the 51 GAA players recruited prior to the current spate of signatures had played an AFL game. Of those, only eight have lined out more than 50 times.

Elsewhere, Carlow senior, Jordan Morrissey is reported to be in talks with two clubs.

Meanwhile, the next crop of hopefuls undertook some kicking practice with the Sherrin oval ball in UCD on Friday.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/red-og-murphy-signs-contract-with-afls-north-melbourne-882025.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 30, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
The numbers going out are increasing what is the reason for that as very few make it out there?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 30, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Why wouldn't you want to go and give it a shot?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: twohands!!! on October 30, 2018, 07:08:40 PM
The numbers going out are increasing what is the reason for that as very few make it out there?

The money on offer even for a rookie contract is very decent - the annual salary for the international rookie contract is more than €50k , and the club covers accommodation, health costs, a car and a number of fights home. So a player can go out there and even if they don't "make it" in terms of signing a 2nd contract/playing with the first team/having a ten year long career, they can come back with a very nice chunk of savings.

If a player does "make it" the salaries on offer are very decent - the average salary in 2017 was $309,000 which works out as €193,000.

Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 30, 2018, 07:23:59 PM
They don't make it cause it takes donkey years to learn the bounce of the oval ball, and the increased physical aspect, and the large leap in fitness!
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 30, 2018, 08:00:11 PM
Why wouldn't you want to go and give it a shot?

Never said they shouldn't but first they have to be given that shot and again only the chosen few are selected.


Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
Tomás Ó Sé blowing scatter

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-a-farce-toms-s-vents-frustration-as-sixth-irish-youngster-signs-for-an-afl-club-37473965.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2019, 10:55:00 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/wexford-pair-lead-fivestrong-party-for-afl-trials-37939791.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on April 08, 2020, 09:36:05 AM
I notice a few murmurings that the current crisis could cause big problems for the finances of the AFL. There's been a few people involved in the recruitment process that say that they won't be targeting GAA players now in light of these financial issues as the cost is much more than focusing on their own domestic talent.

If the financial problems exist then is it possible we could see the current Irish lads return home?

Imagine the boost the return of the likes of McKenna, O'Connor and Hanley could impact on Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo in trying to get up to the level Dublin are at?

Then you'd have a county like Derry who have 3 or 4 of their best underage players from recent years out plying their trade there including Conor Glass.

I'd expect the likes of Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo will try and take advantage of this situation. Maybe the boat has sailed for Hanley but when you think of how close Mayo were in the past you have to think that if they had him among their ranks he could have made the difference.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
I notice a few murmurings that the current crisis could cause big problems for the finances of the AFL. There's been a few people involved in the recruitment process that say that they won't be targeting GAA players now in light of these financial issues as the cost is much more than focusing on their own domestic talent.

If the financial problems exist then is it possible we could see the current Irish lads return home?

Imagine the boost the return of the likes of McKenna, O'Connor and Hanley could impact on Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo in trying to get up to the level Dublin are at?

Then you'd have a county like Derry who have 3 or 4 of their best underage players from recent years out plying their trade there including Conor Glass.

I'd expect the likes of Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo will try and take advantage of this situation. Maybe the boat has sailed for Hanley but when you think of how close Mayo were in the past you have to think that if they had him among their ranks he could have made the difference.

If they do it or not is another thing, but the AFL clubs have one massive ace up their sleeves if they need to raise cash. Private ownership, be it full or partial. This might be something that finally forces it to go that way, if it did, you would expect the numbers of Irish going over, instead of coming back to be a massive problem. But there is barriers the AFL themselves have implemented to more or less veto that (but the hand may be forced).

The AFL itself doesn't actually make mega money....compared to the Premier League say, I think it was like 50 million dollars or something. But you can expect the Australian Govt will not let any sporting franchise or organisation to struggle or fall away, the Australians treat sport like a religion.

As far as players coming back....unless they want to, they won't. Ciaran Sheehan was released and stayed in Oz for about another 18 odd months playing Semi Professional.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: JoG2 on April 08, 2020, 02:45:11 PM
I notice a few murmurings that the current crisis could cause big problems for the finances of the AFL. There's been a few people involved in the recruitment process that say that they won't be targeting GAA players now in light of these financial issues as the cost is much more than focusing on their own domestic talent.


Is there a link? Surely these costs are a drop in the ocean? The odd flight, players staying with families. The very small amount that are selected are on low rookie wages.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on April 08, 2020, 03:25:30 PM
I notice a few murmurings that the current crisis could cause big problems for the finances of the AFL. There's been a few people involved in the recruitment process that say that they won't be targeting GAA players now in light of these financial issues as the cost is much more than focusing on their own domestic talent.


Is there a link? Surely these costs are a drop in the ocean? The odd flight, players staying with families. The very small amount that are selected are on low rookie wages.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/afl-to-curtail-recruitment-of-irish-players-as-covid-19-bites-39112367.html
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: MayoBuck on April 08, 2020, 06:30:27 PM
Oisín Mullin and Frank Irwin from Mayo were due to fly out for trials in September or October but that's been postponed indefinitely. From a selfish point of view, it's one upside of the whole pandemic :)

Can't see Pearse Hanley moving home at this stage however.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: rosnarun on April 09, 2020, 11:29:27 PM
Oisín Mullin and Frank Irwin from Mayo were due to fly out for trials in September or October but that's been postponed indefinitely. From a selfish point of view, it's one upside of the whole pandemic :)

Can't see Pearse Hanley moving home at this stage however.
id much prefer to see mullen stay that hanley return .
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 02, 2020, 07:49:30 AM
Pearce Hanley retiring from the AFL with immeadiate effect.

Very interesting.......

Where would he likely play for Mayo?

As a half forward?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 09:24:20 AM
Shocking news actually, didn't think he would call time on the AFL - he is one of the few that do 'make it'.

At 31, he's ripe to go back to Mayo but maybe the body just has taken too much?

Mayo ones will be delighted if he comes back. Could they tempt Andy Moran back for one last hurrah......?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Tubberman on September 02, 2020, 09:27:33 AM
He has setup his own business out there (a gym - the Oz branch of Andy's The Movement ;)  )
No intention of coming back at this stage I'd say. He was the best minor I saw playing for Mayo, you'd have to think if we had him from 2012 - 2017 we'd have come back with at least 1, probably more.
He came back and played with Ballagh for Championship a good few years ago now, and tbh he was rusty, he wouldn't be able to go straight back in now even if he did come back.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
The injuries etc from aussie rules seem to really mount up. At that age I suspect it would be a bit tough for him coming back. They seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

I don't think Tommy Walsh has remembered how to kick a round ball yet lol. (Still some ball winner though)
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on September 02, 2020, 09:48:03 AM

At 31, he's ripe to go back to Mayo but maybe the body just has taken too much?

Mayo ones will be delighted if he comes back. Could they tempt Andy Moran back for one last hurrah......?
.
Nothing like a youth policy! Ciaran McD as well while ye're at it ;D
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:03:24 AM

At 31, he's ripe to go back to Mayo but maybe the body just has taken too much?

Mayo ones will be delighted if he comes back. Could they tempt Andy Moran back for one last hurrah......?
.
Nothing like a youth policy! Ciaran McD as well while ye're at it ;D

Andy Moran walks onto all but about 2 county starting 15s....even now.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 02, 2020, 10:37:29 AM

At 31, he's ripe to go back to Mayo but maybe the body just has taken too much?

Mayo ones will be delighted if he comes back. Could they tempt Andy Moran back for one last hurrah......?
.
Nothing like a youth policy! Ciaran McD as well while ye're at it ;D

Andy Moran walks onto all but about 2 county starting 15s....even now.

He was sub a lot more than a starter in his final year with Mayo, one of the reasons why he hung the county boots up.

As for Hanley injuries took its toll I'm surprised he wasn't forced to retire sooner.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:45:46 AM

At 31, he's ripe to go back to Mayo but maybe the body just has taken too much?

Mayo ones will be delighted if he comes back. Could they tempt Andy Moran back for one last hurrah......?
.
Nothing like a youth policy! Ciaran McD as well while ye're at it ;D

Andy Moran walks onto all but about 2 county starting 15s....even now.

He was sub a lot more than a starter in his final year with Mayo, one of the reasons why he hung the county boots up.

As for Hanley injuries took its toll I'm surprised he wasn't forced to retire sooner.

Yeah I'd say so and he was one of the 'runners' too. AFL is a brutal sport. Not everybodys cup of tea skill wise but physically what they can do is nearly unparalleled.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 02, 2020, 03:03:09 PM
I'd still say Mayo will be making advances to get him back, still have a a year or two in him you'd imagine but it depends how the body is.

Presumably he's had someone looking after the business for him anyway while he was playing AFL so I'd be surprised if the moneymen in Mayo GAA aren't trying to put something together to get him to give it a go next year.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: rosnarun on September 03, 2020, 02:19:10 PM
I'd still say Mayo will be making advances to get him back, still have a a year or two in him you'd imagine but it depends how the body is.

Presumably he's had someone looking after the business for him anyway while he was playing AFL so I'd be surprised if the moneymen in Mayo GAA aren't trying to put something together to get him to give it a go next year.
I cant see nor expect him to come back . its not like he ever proved himself as a footballer before he Left  to the extent Tommy Walsh did. and it took him years to readjust
and may's record of ~Reintegrating   exiles is not promising. Cian for a start but also Alan Murphy  and Gavin Duffy )I fell im forgetting some one)
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 03, 2020, 10:03:41 PM
I'd still say Mayo will be making advances to get him back, still have a a year or two in him you'd imagine but it depends how the body is.

Presumably he's had someone looking after the business for him anyway while he was playing AFL so I'd be surprised if the moneymen in Mayo GAA aren't trying to put something together to get him to give it a go next year.
I cant see nor expect him to come back . its not like he ever proved himself as a footballer before he Left  to the extent Tommy Walsh did. and it took him years to readjust
and may's record of ~Reintegrating   exiles is not promising. Cian for a start but also Alan Murphy  and Gavin Duffy )I fell im forgetting some one)

Tommy Walsh was done as an AFL player before he came back, did he ever even feature much over there in any case? Now the same could be said for Hanley as it looks like injuries have possibly caught up with him.

But generally the only two cases we have of proven AFL players coming back who were in decent shape have panned out very well - Marty Clarke and Tadhg Kennelly were both very successful in their short returns.

Very few players actually make who go over there.

The only established GAA lads over there at the minute seem Tuohy, McKenna and O'Connor. Think Glass and the lad from Meath might be starting to feature a bit now too but that's it. Before that you had Kennelly and Clarke, is there actually many others in the past 15 years who have made a good fist of a career over there?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 03, 2020, 10:15:27 PM
Looking at some statistics there, very few Irish lads make it over the 50 appearance mark over there.

I think Tuohy and McKenna are the only ones with over 50 appearances there currently active. O'Connor will probably get there shortly after and the year or two will probably decide if Glass or Nash make it. Most guys just don't make it so I think with these guys it might just be that their bodies have broken down or maybe they just don't deliver on underage promise for whatever reason. It happens plenty of underage stars that never take a flight to Australia - Coney and Ronan O'Neill would be a couple of obvious examples from Tyrone.

So effectively you have 5 GAA players currently active now, 3 are established and two are kind of hitting make or break territory.

If you thrive over there and come back fit and healthy I don't see why they wouldn't take back to gaelic football like a duck to water. The problem is a lot of lads come back broken, some just don't hack it over there and don't deliver and some do come back and become key players for their county like McKaigue and Caolan Mooney.

Guys like Walsh and Kevin Dyas suffered terrible injuries over there and probably explains why they never had the right impact. Dyas was as good an underage talent as I've seen in the past 20 years and could have achieved so much more if not for injuries.


Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 04, 2020, 12:15:03 AM
Looking at some statistics there, very few Irish lads make it over the 50 appearance mark over there.

I think Tuohy and McKenna are the only ones with over 50 appearances there currently active. O'Connor will probably get there shortly after and the year or two will probably decide if Glass or Nash make it. Most guys just don't make it so I think with these guys it might just be that their bodies have broken down or maybe they just don't deliver on underage promise for whatever reason. It happens plenty of underage stars that never take a flight to Australia - Coney and Ronan O'Neill would be a couple of obvious examples from Tyrone.

So effectively you have 5 GAA players currently active now, 3 are established and two are kind of hitting make or break territory.

If you thrive over there and come back fit and healthy I don't see why they wouldn't take back to gaelic football like a duck to water. The problem is a lot of lads come back broken, some just don't hack it over there and don't deliver and some do come back and become key players for their county like McKaigue and Caolan Mooney.

Guys like Walsh and Kevin Dyas suffered terrible injuries over there and probably explains why they never had the right impact. Dyas was as good an underage talent as I've seen in the past 20 years and could have achieved so much more if not for injuries.

Agreed, it is difficult, mainly due to the lateness of players taking up the game, trying to learn running patterns etc. That's why a lot of Irish players play half back, its quite similar to wing back in gaelic football - mark your man when you don't have the ball, bomb up the wing and support when you do.
It feels like there are more Irish players now than ever - Glass, Nash and O'Connor (you may have missed him) have been in the best lineup for Hawks and Sydney this year and each have a chance to break the 50 games mark (it should be noted that just above 30% of AFL players to play a single game reach 50, stats from end of 2017).

In the past 15 years, you could add Setanta O'Hailpin, Begley, Ciraran Byrne.

It is true, though that there's a high attrition rate. Kyle Coney is one I often think about - won a minor AI and was highly rated in GAA before coming over to Sydney. Was only here a couple of years afaicr but don't think he had much run since he went back home at all.
Cian Hanley can't train due to his knee (I think) issues.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Ball Hopper on September 04, 2020, 12:49:34 AM
Colin O'Riordan still with Sydney Swans - he too suffered some horrific injuries, including a broken back!
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 04, 2020, 01:18:49 AM
Looking at some statistics there, very few Irish lads make it over the 50 appearance mark over there.

I think Tuohy and McKenna are the only ones with over 50 appearances there currently active. O'Connor will probably get there shortly after and the year or two will probably decide if Glass or Nash make it. Most guys just don't make it so I think with these guys it might just be that their bodies have broken down or maybe they just don't deliver on underage promise for whatever reason. It happens plenty of underage stars that never take a flight to Australia - Coney and Ronan O'Neill would be a couple of obvious examples from Tyrone.

So effectively you have 5 GAA players currently active now, 3 are established and two are kind of hitting make or break territory.

If you thrive over there and come back fit and healthy I don't see why they wouldn't take back to gaelic football like a duck to water. The problem is a lot of lads come back broken, some just don't hack it over there and don't deliver and some do come back and become key players for their county like McKaigue and Caolan Mooney.

Guys like Walsh and Kevin Dyas suffered terrible injuries over there and probably explains why they never had the right impact. Dyas was as good an underage talent as I've seen in the past 20 years and could have achieved so much more if not for injuries.

Agreed, it is difficult, mainly due to the lateness of players taking up the game, trying to learn running patterns etc. That's why a lot of Irish players play half back, its quite similar to wing back in gaelic football - mark your man when you don't have the ball, bomb up the wing and support when you do.
It feels like there are more Irish players now than ever - Glass, Nash and O'Connor (you may have missed him) have been in the best lineup for Hawks and Sydney this year and each have a chance to break the 50 games mark (it should be noted that just above 30% of AFL players to play a single game reach 50, stats from end of 2017).

In the past 15 years, you could add Setanta O'Hailpin, Begley, Ciraran Byrne.

It is true, though that there's a high attrition rate. Kyle Coney is one I often think about - won a minor AI and was highly rated in GAA before coming over to Sydney. Was only here a couple of years afaicr but don't think he had much run since he went back home at all.
Cian Hanley can't train due to his knee (I think) issues.

Coney only spent a couple of weeks out there before coming home or else he never went out full time after trials. He had a very good start to his intercounty career but had a very bad groin injury and never really kicked on from there.

At the minute there's about 5/6 guys there, 3 are fairly well established now (Tuohy, McKenna, O'Connor) and 3 are kind of at the make or break stage (Glass, Nash and O'Riordan). I do genuinely expect McKenna to pack it in at the end of the season, he's lost his place in recent weeks, has had to put up with a lot of nonsense recently and has been open about his will to return to Tyrone and homesickness so I think all the signs are pointing that way.

There's probably on average 5/6 guys who go out there every year from a GAA background and get a contract, maybe one of them makes it but usually the majority of them are home within 12 months or little more.

A lot of times these guys just don't kick on when they return and I don't think it's the AFL unless they've had some bad injury problems.

The point for me is very few make it over there and Hanley was one of the few, if his body hasn't broken down (in this case it might seem that it has) then even at 31 and probably away from the game for a good decade, I'd still expect that he could make a big impact with Mayo. The only case in point of AFL success stories returning to play gaelic football have been Kennelly and Clarke. Kennelly won an all star and AI medal on his only year back and Clarke won an all star and probably should have got footballer of the year on his first year back.

The only question mark I'd have on Hanley is whether his body is shot, if not he could still do a big job for Mayo.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: screenexile on September 04, 2020, 08:05:52 AM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: rosnarun on September 04, 2020, 10:54:24 AM
Looking at some statistics there, very few Irish lads make it over the 50 appearance mark over there.

I think Tuohy and McKenna are the only ones with over 50 appearances there currently active. O'Connor will probably get there shortly after and the year or two will probably decide if Glass or Nash make it. Most guys just don't make it so I think with these guys it might just be that their bodies have broken down or maybe they just don't deliver on underage promise for whatever reason. It happens plenty of underage stars that never take a flight to Australia - Coney and Ronan O'Neill would be a couple of obvious examples from Tyrone.

So effectively you have 5 GAA players currently active now, 3 are established and two are kind of hitting make or break territory.

If you thrive over there and come back fit and healthy I don't see why they wouldn't take back to gaelic football like a duck to water. The problem is a lot of lads come back broken, some just don't hack it over there and don't deliver and some do come back and become key players for their county like McKaigue and Caolan Mooney.

Guys like Walsh and Kevin Dyas suffered terrible injuries over there and probably explains why they never had the right impact. Dyas was as good an underage talent as I've seen in the past 20 years and could have achieved so much more if not for injuries.

Agreed, it is difficult, mainly due to the lateness of players taking up the game, trying to learn running patterns etc. That's why a lot of Irish players play half back, its quite similar to wing back in gaelic football - mark your man when you don't have the ball, bomb up the wing and support when you do.
It feels like there are more Irish players now than ever - Glass, Nash and O'Connor (you may have missed him) have been in the best lineup for Hawks and Sydney this year and each have a chance to break the 50 games mark (it should be noted that just above 30% of AFL players to play a single game reach 50, stats from end of 2017).

In the past 15 years, you could add Setanta O'Hailpin, Begley, Ciraran Byrne.

It is true, though that there's a high attrition rate. Kyle Coney is one I often think about - won a minor AI and was highly rated in GAA before coming over to Sydney. Was only here a couple of years afaicr but don't think he had much run since he went back home at all.
Cian Hanley can't train due to his knee (I think) issues.

Coney only spent a couple of weeks out there before coming home or else he never went out full time after trials. He had a very good start to his intercounty career but had a very bad groin injury and never really kicked on from there.

At the minute there's about 5/6 guys there, 3 are fairly well established now (Tuohy, McKenna, O'Connor) and 3 are kind of at the make or break stage (Glass, Nash and O'Riordan). I do genuinely expect McKenna to pack it in at the end of the season, he's lost his place in recent weeks, has had to put up with a lot of nonsense recently and has been open about his will to return to Tyrone and homesickness so I think all the signs are pointing that way.

There's probably on average 5/6 guys who go out there every year from a GAA background and get a contract, maybe one of them makes it but usually the majority of them are home within 12 months or little more.

A lot of times these guys just don't kick on when they return and I don't think it's the AFL unless they've had some bad injury problems.

The point for me is very few make it over there and Hanley was one of the few, if his body hasn't broken down (in this case it might seem that it has) then even at 31 and probably away from the game for a good decade, I'd still expect that he could make a big impact with Mayo. The only case in point of AFL success stories returning to play gaelic football have been Kennelly and Clarke. Kennelly won an all star and AI medal on his only year back and Clarke won an all star and probably should have got footballer of the year on his first year back.

The only question mark I'd have on Hanley is whether his body is shot, if not he could still do a big job for Mayo.
I really think hes too old in any case . he won't play this year . probably need a year at club and by then he'd be 33 time to retire any way.Mayo are in a phase of swapping out older players for new and the Club championship has shown there are lots of players out there , the last thing we need is to waste time on a project player  with a beaten up body.
he make his choice and it worked
 out well for him so let him retire in peace
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Tubberman on September 04, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Looking at some statistics there, very few Irish lads make it over the 50 appearance mark over there.

I think Tuohy and McKenna are the only ones with over 50 appearances there currently active. O'Connor will probably get there shortly after and the year or two will probably decide if Glass or Nash make it. Most guys just don't make it so I think with these guys it might just be that their bodies have broken down or maybe they just don't deliver on underage promise for whatever reason. It happens plenty of underage stars that never take a flight to Australia - Coney and Ronan O'Neill would be a couple of obvious examples from Tyrone.

So effectively you have 5 GAA players currently active now, 3 are established and two are kind of hitting make or break territory.

If you thrive over there and come back fit and healthy I don't see why they wouldn't take back to gaelic football like a duck to water. The problem is a lot of lads come back broken, some just don't hack it over there and don't deliver and some do come back and become key players for their county like McKaigue and Caolan Mooney.

Guys like Walsh and Kevin Dyas suffered terrible injuries over there and probably explains why they never had the right impact. Dyas was as good an underage talent as I've seen in the past 20 years and could have achieved so much more if not for injuries.

Agreed, it is difficult, mainly due to the lateness of players taking up the game, trying to learn running patterns etc. That's why a lot of Irish players play half back, its quite similar to wing back in gaelic football - mark your man when you don't have the ball, bomb up the wing and support when you do.
It feels like there are more Irish players now than ever - Glass, Nash and O'Connor (you may have missed him) have been in the best lineup for Hawks and Sydney this year and each have a chance to break the 50 games mark (it should be noted that just above 30% of AFL players to play a single game reach 50, stats from end of 2017).

In the past 15 years, you could add Setanta O'Hailpin, Begley, Ciraran Byrne.

It is true, though that there's a high attrition rate. Kyle Coney is one I often think about - won a minor AI and was highly rated in GAA before coming over to Sydney. Was only here a couple of years afaicr but don't think he had much run since he went back home at all.
Cian Hanley can't train due to his knee (I think) issues.

Coney only spent a couple of weeks out there before coming home or else he never went out full time after trials. He had a very good start to his intercounty career but had a very bad groin injury and never really kicked on from there.

At the minute there's about 5/6 guys there, 3 are fairly well established now (Tuohy, McKenna, O'Connor) and 3 are kind of at the make or break stage (Glass, Nash and O'Riordan). I do genuinely expect McKenna to pack it in at the end of the season, he's lost his place in recent weeks, has had to put up with a lot of nonsense recently and has been open about his will to return to Tyrone and homesickness so I think all the signs are pointing that way.

There's probably on average 5/6 guys who go out there every year from a GAA background and get a contract, maybe one of them makes it but usually the majority of them are home within 12 months or little more.

A lot of times these guys just don't kick on when they return and I don't think it's the AFL unless they've had some bad injury problems.

The point for me is very few make it over there and Hanley was one of the few, if his body hasn't broken down (in this case it might seem that it has) then even at 31 and probably away from the game for a good decade, I'd still expect that he could make a big impact with Mayo. The only case in point of AFL success stories returning to play gaelic football have been Kennelly and Clarke. Kennelly won an all star and AI medal on his only year back and Clarke won an all star and probably should have got footballer of the year on his first year back.

The only question mark I'd have on Hanley is whether his body is shot, if not he could still do a big job for Mayo.
I really think hes too old in any case . he won't play this year . probably need a year at club and by then he'd be 33 time to retire any way.Mayo are in a phase of swapping out older players for new and the Club championship has shown there are lots of players out there , the last thing we need is to waste time on a project player  with a beaten up body.
he make his choice and it worked
 out well for him so let him retire in peace

well said
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 04, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!

Unless they make a breakthrough in the next 12 months you can expect them to be returning home shortly.

Tohill is a strange one as he wasn't even getting much game time underage for Derry, was he not on the bench for a lot of Derry underage teams?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: oakleaflad on September 04, 2020, 11:55:02 AM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!

Unless they make a breakthrough in the next 12 months you can expect them to be returning home shortly.

Tohill is a strange one as he wasn't even getting much game time underage for Derry, was he not on the bench for a lot of Derry underage teams?
Both improved massively in their late teens. A lot of uproar made about Brown not starting for Derry minors but truth be told he struggling to solo the ball consistently at U16 to the starting county U20/21 team at 18, he made huge improvements and is obviously physically gifted.
Tohill likewise wouldn't have been starting on Derry underage teams but improved massively just before heading out. He's some height of a lad too which obviously helps.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 04, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!

Unless they make a breakthrough in the next 12 months you can expect them to be returning home shortly.

Tohill is a strange one as he wasn't even getting much game time underage for Derry, was he not on the bench for a lot of Derry underage teams?
Both improved massively in their late teens. A lot of uproar made about Brown not starting for Derry minors but truth be told he struggling to solo the ball consistently at U16 to the starting county U20/21 team at 18, he made huge improvements and is obviously physically gifted.
Tohill likewise wouldn't have been starting on Derry underage teams but improved massively just before heading out. He's some height of a lad too which obviously helps.

Brown was making a big impact even if not starting for Derry teams. Tohill never really seemed to be rated that much which is why it was a bit of a suprise to see him head out there. He could just be a late developer but I'm just surprised how he was spotted, is it solely to do with being a son of a legend?

Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: oakleaflad on September 04, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!

Unless they make a breakthrough in the next 12 months you can expect them to be returning home shortly.

Tohill is a strange one as he wasn't even getting much game time underage for Derry, was he not on the bench for a lot of Derry underage teams?
Both improved massively in their late teens. A lot of uproar made about Brown not starting for Derry minors but truth be told he struggling to solo the ball consistently at U16 to the starting county U20/21 team at 18, he made huge improvements and is obviously physically gifted.
Tohill likewise wouldn't have been starting on Derry underage teams but improved massively just before heading out. He's some height of a lad too which obviously helps.

Brown was making a big impact even if not starting for Derry teams. Tohill never really seemed to be rated that much which is why it was a bit of a suprise to see him head out there. He could just be a late developer but I'm just surprised how he was spotted, is it solely to do with being a son of a legend?
Ahh I couldn't say. He was starting for St.Pat's Maghera, on Derry panel and improving before he went out. Maybe it did have an impact, maybe it didn't. I know he did a bit of work with Marty Clarke before going out. The fact he's 6ft 6.5in tall and can run helps too. The big thing i'd emphasize is they're two different sports and once Collingwood seen his size, testing times and he that he did well in kicking drills, they took a chance on him.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 04, 2020, 12:45:20 PM
We’ve another 2 lads out there Anton Tohill and Callum Brown. I don’t think they’re regulars yet but they’ve been out there more than a year!!

Unless they make a breakthrough in the next 12 months you can expect them to be returning home shortly.

Tohill is a strange one as he wasn't even getting much game time underage for Derry, was he not on the bench for a lot of Derry underage teams?
Both improved massively in their late teens. A lot of uproar made about Brown not starting for Derry minors but truth be told he struggling to solo the ball consistently at U16 to the starting county U20/21 team at 18, he made huge improvements and is obviously physically gifted.
Tohill likewise wouldn't have been starting on Derry underage teams but improved massively just before heading out. He's some height of a lad too which obviously helps.

Brown was making a big impact even if not starting for Derry teams. Tohill never really seemed to be rated that much which is why it was a bit of a suprise to see him head out there. He could just be a late developer but I'm just surprised how he was spotted, is it solely to do with being a son of a legend?
Ahh I couldn't say. He was starting for St.Pat's Maghera, on Derry panel and improving before he went out. Maybe it did have an impact, maybe it didn't. I know he did a bit of work with Marty Clarke before going out. The fact he's 6ft 6.5in tall and can run helps too. The big thing i'd emphasize is they're two different sports and once Collingwood seen his size, testing times and he that he did well in kicking drills, they took a chance on him.

Collingwood have a history of gambling cross code on a big guy and it working out - Mason Cox came from Basketball If I remember correctly he was at times unplayable in the 2018 Grand Final.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 08, 2020, 01:56:44 AM
McKenna done
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Never beat the deeler on September 08, 2020, 02:02:13 AM
I feel he is one of the few that can (will) make a genuine impact at football once he returns. A skillful player, who hasn't been overly hampered with injuries - he was out with a fractured hand earlier this year, but none of the soft tissue / joint problems that cause recurring issues

https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement (https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement)
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: stephenite on September 08, 2020, 02:42:08 AM
I feel he is one of the few that can (will) make a genuine impact at football once he returns. A skillful player, who hasn't been overly hampered with injuries - he was out with a fractured hand earlier this year, but none of the soft tissue / joint problems that cause recurring issues

https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement (https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement)

Agreed, fine footballer and think he will make a big impact on his return. Certainly none of the Tommy Walsh type of injuries. Will selfishly miss seeing him play down here
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 08, 2020, 07:31:15 AM
I feel he is one of the few that can (will) make a genuine impact at football once he returns. A skillful player, who hasn't been overly hampered with injuries - he was out with a fractured hand earlier this year, but none of the soft tissue / joint problems that cause recurring issues

https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement (https://www.afl.com.au/news/497519/essendon-speedster-shocks-teammates-with-retirement-announcement)

Plenty of them do make an impact and they are guys who didn't even cut it at AFL. As I've said previously, the only two success stories who returned to play GAA from the AFL were Marty Clarke and Tadhg Kennelly and both won all stars in their first year back.

Anyone else who has returned either didn't make it/had an indifferent time or came back with their body in bits.

McKenna was an outstanding underage footballer. He was the best player on show in 2013 minor championship and he was underage the next year as well. He had speed, power flair, could kick with two feet and was a very good free taker.

That's a while ago now but he has excelled and proved himself at AFL and very, very few that go out there manage that.

It may take him time to acclimatise back but I would have high expectations. He's exactly what we are missing right now. For me he's the biggest talent to come through the county since Sean Cavanagh.

This is a game changer for Tyrone, roll on 2021.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Angelo on September 17, 2020, 08:12:35 AM
Conor Glass to now return?
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: oakleaflad on January 13, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
Mark Keane apparently not returning to Collingwood and staying in Ireland.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Nanderson on January 13, 2022, 01:16:36 PM
I think a lot of one's that go out at a young age to play AFL find out that the grass isn't always greener
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Sportacus on January 13, 2022, 02:58:05 PM
The grass is definitely not greener in Australia - fact.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2022, 03:45:52 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0107/1272382-ups-and-down-unders-mixed-returns-from-afl-life/
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Never beat the deeler on January 13, 2022, 09:51:46 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0107/1272382-ups-and-down-unders-mixed-returns-from-afl-life/


Everyone talks about Sean Wight as the first Irish AFL player, I found this article very interesting a few months ago about Stuart Magee from Belfast who made over 200 appearances
https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/ (https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/)

Aside from that, a lot of inaccuracies in the rte.ie article which would only take a couple of hours to research
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: fearsiuil on January 14, 2022, 08:05:19 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0107/1272382-ups-and-down-unders-mixed-returns-from-afl-life/


Everyone talks about Sean Wight as the first Irish AFL player, I found this article very interesting a few months ago about Stuart Magee from Belfast who made over 200 appearances
https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/ (https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/)

Aside from that, a lot of inaccuracies in the rte.ie article which would only take a couple of hours to research

"Listowel’s Sean Wight, who played midfield in Kerry’s 1982 All-Ireland minor final loss to Dublin, was the first player from these shores to be scouted and recruited when he joined Melbourne in 1985 "

Emigration and sons of emigrants are a different category surely.
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Never beat the deeler on January 14, 2022, 12:12:26 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0107/1272382-ups-and-down-unders-mixed-returns-from-afl-life/


Everyone talks about Sean Wight as the first Irish AFL player, I found this article very interesting a few months ago about Stuart Magee from Belfast who made over 200 appearances
https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/ (https://www.the42.ie/stuart-magee-afl-belfast-5521895-Aug2021/)

Aside from that, a lot of inaccuracies in the rte.ie article which would only take a couple of hours to research

"Listowel’s Sean Wight, who played midfield in Kerry’s 1982 All-Ireland minor final loss to Dublin, was the first player from these shores to be scouted and recruited when he joined Melbourne in 1985 "

Emigration and sons of emigrants are a different category surely.

Just wanted to bring light to a story that I hadn't heard before this article.
The inaccuracies I mentioned don't include that point
Title: Re: The 4 youngsters marked for AFL?
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 15, 2022, 08:10:59 AM
Apparently Oisín Mullin trained with Mayo last night.