GAA split season for 2021 will see Laois begin their Division Two league campaign in February
https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/sport/595715/gaa-split-season-for-2021-will-see-laois-begin-their-division-two-league-campaign-in-february.html
I think Gary Walsh is unfortunate not to be starting today. The backs look strong and you have Buggie and O'Flynn on the bench, both good defenders.
At this stage, you'd have to think it might be best to cull a few of the older long serving players who in fairness have given their all and try to base a team around the two decent under 20 teams we had last year and 2019.
I'd like to see that Eoin Dunne lad in there. Coffey. Saunders. Owens. Mohan (a proper sticky corner back). Maybe Tyrrell although he doesn't convince me. Along with Barry, O'Flynn, Lacey and I think Whelan who are already in there.
Quote from: SCFC on May 18, 2021, 05:20:05 PM
At this stage, you'd have to think it might be best to cull a few of the older long serving players who in f
airness have given their all and try to base a team around the two decent under 20 teams we had last year and 2019.
I'd like to see that Eoin Dunne lad in there. Coffey. Saunders. Owens. Mohan (a proper sticky corner back). Maybe Tyrrell although he doesn't convince me. Along with Barry, O'Flynn, Lacey and I think Whelan who are already in there.
I think this has to be the way forward. These young guys will have to be thrown in and may sink or swim in Division 3 next year.
Looks like we could be playing Down or Westmeath in a relegation playoff. I'm watching Down at the moment and also saw most of their game last week and they are very, very poor. I know we are dreadful too.
I'm not sure I'm totally happy with this narrative that yesterday's performance is some sort of improvement on the Clare game.
We were at home to a Cork team that Kildare beat well last week and lost by 8 points! There might have been a few improved individual performances but in general, I thought it was equally as poor as the performance in Ennis.
Quirke isn't convincing to say the least. He has two big games now coming up against Down and Westmeath. Probably need to win both for him to have any chance of a third year in the job.
That said, that was a horrific display today and the players need to have a serious self examination.
The players tried hard and it was not like they were completely over run fitness wise. To me it seemed Laois were able to work the ball out of their half perfectly fine but once the got inside the Kildare 45 they took the wrong option over and over and kicked some awful wides. It has to be a big worry that so much of our mistakes were unforced errors.
It is all well and good having a go at management or players but there needs to be a serious look and player development from underage. So many of our players are the wrong side of 30, its not their fault they get picked as they are obviously the best footballer in the county but there should be players in their early 20s knocking on the door at this stage. The reason Laois won the Leinster in 03 was down to the conveyor belt of talented footballers developed throughout the 90's. The whole point of the underage set up is to get players up to the level required for senior intercounty yet we are struggling in this regard it seems.
Any thoughts on the Down game? I've seen them on GAAgo and they are pretty ordinary. Very defensive too.
Bad and all as the last three games have been, I'm hoping we might make a fight of it and hopefully edge a scrappy game.
The team is anyone's guess.
Down are poor side who still play a defensive brand of football. The win against Westmeath might give them some confidence but Laois are capable of going to Newry and getting a win. Kingston and Begley should be back which will be of help. Hopefully Laois can reduce the error count and move the ball much quicker and play more directly into O'Carroll and Kingston. If we do we have a chance.
That was dire. Absolutely no progress made now since Sugrue stepped away. What a loss he has proven to be.
Hard to see us competing with Westmeath in three weeks time.
I disagree jobs last game cork kicked us up and down the field,,today we are to old 3,6,8;9;14 all the wrong side management and also chairman of the football board should be called into question he has made the wrong decision for Laois Gaa in appointment simple as and his not up to the most important job in our county,,,bad result but we're a div 3/4 team realistically
Very disappointing again. It wasn't for lack of effort but the missed goal chances and the mistakes at the other end were killers. Evan's a fantastic player but his finishing rate is atrocious. That's surely something that could be worked on in training? Lack of pace down the middle exposed at times but I thought all of the older lads were very good. Donie Kingston looks in better shape than I've seen him for a long while and his personal performances have improved as a result. That was a game that was there for the taking and we blew it.
I find it hard to blame anyone in particular. We are mediocre in both codes and we don't have enough quality players in either. Mistakes have been made by the CB for sure, and letting Sugrue depart was unforgivable. Same with Brennan in the hurling. But we are what we are; we don't have the numbers or quality, and we will always struggle until we get a golden crop. Throwing money at coaches will not make anything better, and most counties are in a similar situation. There's a pointlessness to all of this that makes me think we'd be better off not bothering, but I can't listen to the bleeding hearts tell me that giving up is weak. In reality, the mountain is far too high to climb. That's just being realistic. We are a small county with limited resources and like so many others, we are just fodder.
I know how you feel but surely we can have ambitions to play in Division 2 and compete with the likes of Down?
I see a lot of talk about giving the young lads a chance but I don't really see who they might be. Most of the young lads that can realistically add value are already there.
Quote from: Giovanni on June 13, 2021, 05:47:28 PM
I know how you feel but surely we can have ambitions to play in Division 2 and compete with the likes of Down?
I see a lot of talk about giving the young lads a chance but I don't really see who they might be. Most of the young lads that can realistically add value are already there.
I'd agree with Giovanni here. Any young lads that are going to make any difference are already there . You throw in too many young lads at the same time who are not up to the standard and all of a sudden the team is even weaker again . The reality is if we field a team of youngsters in division 3 next year we could find ourselves in division 4 . Just because a lad is "young" and has shown a glimpse of potential in Laois club football Dosent exactly mean he will be any good at intercounty senior level . It's a completely different animal .The two u20 players from last year that have been on the senior panel this year have been very underwhelming every game they have played for the seniors this year. A complete overhaul is needed from underage up in this county and the reality is a lot of the lads in front of Mike Quirke every night at training are not the solution to make us competitive again .
Are Laois not producing quality development squads anymore or what is happening? This should be the priority in both codes, get players at 16 or so up to a set standard so we competitive underage teams.
Winning things would be great but the main objective would be to get a group up to a high standard which should help boost the underage club scene and hopefully if even 3 or 4 of the group made to senior level it would become a conveyor belt of players so we don't end up relying on players in their 30s.
I know it may seem bleak but we can look at other counties who are doing it, Clare are a great example.
Correct if i'm wrong, laois beat armagh twice in the last two years
beat westmeath and offaly in the leinster championship
i think we drew away to roscommon
got to a leinster final, with a good few players from the team yesterday
these same counties are certainly improving
and we are going backwards. ANSWER THAT
Can anyone here explain why(barring injury) a manager would bring on two subs late in the 69th minute when getting bet by 7 points. Surely to god if you wanted to change things then you'd give a lad 15 mins. Is it a box ticking exercise or a way of preventing players from playing with the clubs. Just seems so pointless
Quote from: Laoiseabu on June 13, 2021, 06:33:25 PM
Just because a lad is "young" and has shown a glimpse of potential in Laois club football Dosent exactly mean he will be any good at intercounty senior level . It's a completely different animal .The two u20 players from last year that have been on the senior panel this year have been very underwhelming every game they have played for the seniors this year.
To be fair to the under 20's from last year, O'Flynn has barely got 5 minutes in the league. Would agree on Barry.
From the previous year's 20's, Lacey has done OK in the league. I'd rather see a few more of the players from those teams getting game time than Ross (who I have the greatest of respect for) or any other older players. What ever happened Diarmuid Whelan? I liked the look of him in 2019. If we don't try them out, we'll never know if they are up to it or not.
I'm not a huge fan of Quirke but he has been unlucky with his hands being tied by Covid in terms of trying to use a longer league and an O'Byrne Cup to look at lads.
Quote from: town1980 on June 13, 2021, 01:01:24 AM
I disagree jobs last game cork kicked us up and down the field,,
That was a Round 4 qualifier - Sugrue brought us from Division 4 to Division 2, a Leinster final and two Round 4 qualifiers. I think losing him was a blow we haven't recovered from yet.
Quote from: Jd on June 14, 2021, 08:38:23 AM
Can anyone here explain why(barring injury) a manager would bring on two subs late in the 69th minute when getting bet by 7 points. Surely to god if you wanted to change things then you'd give a lad 15 mins. Is it a box ticking exercise or a way of preventing players from playing with the clubs. Just seems so pointless
Can't answer that but I do think the players might actually benefit from a week back with their clubs and playing the first round of the league with their clubs. Just for a change of scenery and it might freshen them up for a two week run in to the Westmeath game.
there seems to be a great belief, especially on social media that there is a team of ready made young lads going to immediately come into this team. in reality the majority of the team that played this years league will be playing next years league. there might be an odd positional switch, maybe one or two new faces but there won't be some major overhaul, whether its Quirke or not the next management group aren't going to go into a competitive enough division 3 with a completely different team. realistically unless a player is super talented or have the right physical attributes, there are very few of them ready made for senior football straight from the u20's. Dublin have hockeyed us in two u20 finals and little or none of those players are making their senior panel, admittingly we are competing at a much lower standard. it takes a while for a player to develop the fitness and strength for senior football.
At the start of the year, the players themselves commented on the strength of the panel and bar an odd player is there anybody really standing out that could go straight into that team, I haven't seen anything we badly need, like two tight marking natural corner backs, a pacey, mobile box to box midfielder, a killer pacey (accurate) inside forward or a speedy, direct linebreaking wing forward. even if we found one or two of these, is there even the patience to develop them as it appears the standard comment after each game is "the worst ever".
the league this year exposed problems that were brewing for a year or two, the lack of pace, an older team, the repeated concession of big scores and the lack of real cutting edge or accurately in the forwards. maybe Sugure saw it coming and reckoned we had got the most he could out the players available? It wasn't all plain sailing for him either, there were some poor performances that we managed to salvage a win out of. quirke has been dealt an unlucky hand with Covid and the new structures in the last two years, he has made a few mistakes but I reckon he will probably stay on for another year.
Quote from: on the hop on June 14, 2021, 03:03:01 PM
there seems to be a great belief, especially on social media that there is a team of ready made young lads going to immediately come into this team. in reality the majority of the team that played this years league will be playing next years league. there might be an odd positional switch, maybe one or two new faces but there won't be some major overhaul, whether its Quirke or not the next management group aren't going to go into a competitive enough division 3 with a completely different team. realistically unless a player is super talented or have the right physical attributes, there are very few of them ready made for senior football straight from the u20's. Dublin have hockeyed us in two u20 finals and little or none of those players are making their senior panel, admittingly we are competing at a much lower standard. it takes a while for a player to develop the fitness and strength for senior football.
At the start of the year, the players themselves commented on the strength of the panel and bar an odd player is there anybody really standing out that could go straight into that team, I haven't seen anything we badly need, like two tight marking natural corner backs, a pacey, mobile box to box midfielder, a killer pacey (accurate) inside forward or a speedy, direct linebreaking wing forward. even if we found one or two of these, is there even the patience to develop them as it appears the standard comment after each game is "the worst ever".
the league this year exposed problems that were brewing for a year or two, the lack of pace, an older team, the repeated concession of big scores and the lack of real cutting edge or accurately in the forwards. maybe Sugure saw it coming and reckoned we had got the most he could out the players available? It wasn't all plain sailing for him either, there were some poor performances that we managed to salvage a win out of. quirke has been dealt an unlucky hand with Covid and the new structures in the last two years, he has made a few mistakes but I reckon he will probably stay on for another year.
Id 100% agree with on the hop here . The reality is with all the retirements that have to come in the near future we are going to get worse before we get better again , and there's no guarantee we will get any better anytime soon either . That's the harsh reality here . You just feel even if we did manage to get back up to division 2 that we would be nothing more than cannon fodder for the likes of division 2 teams like Galway , Roscommon, Meath and Cork . There's a serious overhaul needed from grassroots up in this county just to make us competitive again with division 2 sides let alone beat them. Clare , Cork and Down would of been looked at as three of the weakest teams in division 2 this year and we were a good 8 points behind the three of them . Westmeath are relegated to division 3 like ourselves but they were a lot more competitive in their div 2 games and we have them in a few weeks time in the championship. I can't help but think we will be a good 7/8 points behind them too. At this moment in time I reckon we are closer to the level of Wicklow , Limerick and Carlow than the likes of Westmeath , Down and Clare . If we were in division 4 with Cavan and Tipp next year I couldn't see us coming out ahead of the two of them unfortunately.
By right if the proper structures were put in place and we got our house in order at underage we should eventually be able to build a competitive division 2 team but at the moment we are closer to division 4 than division 2 . It's going to be a long process that requires patience but we really need to pull our finger off the pitch and get everything in order . When we got relegated to division 4 a few years ago it should of been the kick in the arse we needed to open our eyes but it clearly didn't Change our approach and we never learned from it .
Sugrue was the perfect fit. He was local but not native. He didn't come with the usual begrudgery or baggage that a Laois native would. Aside from that, he was sharp and had plans for the future. Letting him go was wholesale madness. I'm afraid to say that a lot of Laois people have no idea how bad the standards are in the county. For the players to think or feel that they belong to a good panel of players shows a complete unawareness of what is required nowadays. We're simply miles off. I wouldn't even know where to begin....
Quote from: High Fielder on June 14, 2021, 06:48:35 PM
Sugrue was the perfect fit. He was local but not native. He didn't come with the usual begrudgery or baggage that a Laois native would. Aside from that, he was sharp and had plans for the future. Letting him go was wholesale madness. I'm afraid to say that a lot of Laois people have no idea how bad the standards are in the county. For the players to think or feel that they belong to a good panel of players shows a complete unawareness of what is required nowadays. We're simply miles off. I wouldn't even know where to begin....
I agree high fielder . A lot of people in this county are blinded to how poor the standards are in the county .And If you are blinded to these problems it's impossible to change them for the better. I was talking to a few guys at work who were at a couple of practice matches involving Laois clubs over the weekend and they were saying that the standard of football was atrocious. I know this time of year teams can be missing county players and there can be a few lads still getting back up to speed but a fierce amount of clubs in Laois are working off very limited panels and a lot of clubs seem to be ageing and regressing , none of those things will help the county team going foward .
Serious discussions and plans need to be drawn up in this county before Laois football completely falls off a cliff altogether and next thing youngsters coming through just wont have the interest or lose interest altogether. You reap what you sow and it's about time we started sowing up some plans from club level and underage level the whole way up to senior intercounty. A progressive plan is needed for talented youngsters in Laois to prepare them for the demands of senior intercounty so when they do eventually get to that stage they have a better chance of being up to the level required to make it and not get tossed to the side like a lot of youngsters that come into the Laois senior panel who are later deemed to be " not up to it " .
We are a useless county at developing and nurturing our talent and that needs to change . I guarantee you a lot of them Dublin players if they were brought up in Laois from a young age they would not have reached near the same levels as they have up in Dublin . It's a developmental thing here in this county . It NEEDS to change .
Might be in the wrong thread but Laois need to up the number of GDO officers in the county. Offaly I think are hoping to have over 10 soon whereas Laois have 5? Portlaoise should have at least 1 along with big areas like Port, Mountmellick and Graigue etc.
Some clubs seem to be struggling at underage level for whatever reason. For Laois to be successful its important the football strongholds of the likes of Stradbally Parish Gaels start competing in A competitions and challenging for titles. Portlaoise seem to be struggling too. Have their numbers decreased since moving their grounds outside the town? Realistically they should be producing at lesst 2 teams at underage level given their population.
A focus should be placed on schools football too. Should a Laois schools team enter in A competition along with Knockbeg?
Quote from: on the hop on June 14, 2021, 03:03:01 PM
there seems to be a great belief, especially on social media that there is a team of ready made young lads going to immediately come into this team. in reality the majority of the team that played this years league will be playing next years league. there might be an odd positional switch, maybe one or two new faces but there won't be some major overhaul, whether its Quirke or not the next management group aren't going to go into a competitive enough division 3 with a completely different team. realistically unless a player is super talented or have the right physical attributes, there are very few of them ready made for senior football straight from the u20's. Dublin have hockeyed us in two u20 finals and little or none of those players are making their senior panel, admittingly we are competing at a much lower standard. it takes a while for a player to develop the fitness and strength for senior football.
At the start of the year, the players themselves commented on the strength of the panel and bar an odd player is there anybody really standing out that could go straight into that team, I haven't seen anything we badly need, like two tight marking natural corner backs, a pacey, mobile box to box midfielder, a killer pacey (accurate) inside forward or a speedy, direct linebreaking wing forward. even if we found one or two of these, is there even the patience to develop them as it appears the standard comment after each game is "the worst ever".
Good points on the hop but are you not kinda contradicting yourself? On one hand you're saying "there are very few of them ready made for senior football straight from the u20's" and then you say "is there even the patience to develop them".
I get what you're saying and it's hard to disagree that our 2019 and 2020 under 20 teams are hardly full of young fellas who are ready to take over from Timmons, Begley, JOL and Donie. But at the same time, they are not being tried out!
The likes of Eoin Dunne, Ronan Coffey, Diarmuid Whelan and Alex Mohan should be worth trying out and persisting with. Jack Owens, Tyrrell, Saunders. I'm not arguing that they are all the answer but they are all 21 now or even 22 and it would be a crying shame if we let what seems to have been our best underage crop for the best part of 10 years slide away.
The point that they are not all ready for senior football is very valid and you'd really wonder if we should have been entering a team in the junior football for the past few years.
I think comparing the state of Laois football and comparing it or benchmarking against Dublin is fundimentally flawed. The issue of the great under 20 teams and then suggesting that as they were beaten by a Dublin Team in the Final somehow relegates them to being a poor team is disingenious. Certainly in last year's club Championship a lot of the current Laois senior players were the stand out players week in week out but last year's championship was a rushed campaign and these players would have built up experience and fitness levels to see them through most of the campaign.
The current senior club semi final teams show 4 Portarlington players and 1 Graiguecullen player in the starting line up and 1 Emo Player in the Subs panel so players are being played on legacy as opposed to club performance.
As a county , Laois are currently playing catch up, with the regards the center of excellence having been completed in the last few years , strength and fitness conditioning and also players want to be valued and feel that the necessary pathway is there with quality coaching, recognition of sacrifice and an opportunity to play at the highest level. If the suggestion is that these Under 20's have had no impact , you only have to look at the 4 clubs challenging the club championship to disspell the myth. Al four clubs have added serious youthful players which has reaped their rewards.
I certainly would feel agrieved as a young player if i say that there was no real opportunity to break into a senior panel due to the current reluctance to change or invest in youth and its easier to walk away from County back to Club. Division 3/4 is the current level of this Dual Playing County and unfortunatlely it will remain at this level unless there is a proper vision of a standard which is achievable as opposed to a fanciful idea of competing in the top two divisions.
Coaching and underage development is mostly completed by volunteers at club level and this relies heavily upon honest and hard working club members who you see week in week out at all grounds around the county. How much is given back by the current crop of players on the current senior squad locally to club or at county level. I understand the work of GDA's and close relationship at school level as the nursery to the clubs which is very important but a lot of the development it would appear is concentrated on a summer of cul camps and then back to club.
There is an element of tiredness about certain elements of underage football and I have also witnessed significant improvement in the standard of juvenile football over the last 10 years so all hope is not lost , there is some work to do but recognising that there is a problem and addressing it is teh first step on teh road to recovery
What Mike Quirke regarding us as a county having no pace I totally agree with buuuuutttttt only on the face of the team he has picked,again 3,6,8,9,14 great servants but are not able for the rigours of inter county anymore there toooooo old and have lost there pace only from a Father Time point of view that's all,,, there is plenty in any county to play inter county its your managers job to source them my finger points at our current men who employes these fellas and there now at meetings saying it's not good enough it's they who should loose there jobs in just my opinion,,I'll state now quirke will be let go this year then the merry go round starts again but we should also let go the guys who let john sugru go ,like Eddie he wanted a winning mentality but the powers that be the heads are in the sand there the real boys who should be to answer,,, Justin mcnulty also a perfect example 👌✌️👍
From the last two under 20 teams that made it to leinster finals you could argue that the teams were made up of a collective of good footballers as opposed to a team that was driven by 2/3 star or standout footballers. Ultimately, it is only the 'star' footballers from the underage grade that will realistically step up to the senior team and add to things at that level. Those Laois U20 sides of last two years full of fine players, however if we are expecting 7/8 of them to step up to senior in the next 12/24 months and make Laois a competitive division 2 team again I cannot see that happening.
I hear people giving out about Quirke not blooding more youth and annoyed regarding his reliance on the old guard. Unfortunately, I don't see those young footballers in the county who are really challenging or should be in the team ahead of the likes of Timmons, O'Loughlin, Begley, Kingston or Lillis.
My fear in that in the next 3/4 years we will have an abundance of good footballers to pick from- as in there will be little between about 50-60 footballers within the county. However, we wont have that star quality-those 5 or 6 top, top footballers who are a cut above the rest (e.g. Beano, Conway, Kevin Fitz, Tom Kelly of yester year) who can drive things within an intercounty set-up and which a good, truly competitive team can be built around.
Quote from: Laois Rising on June 21, 2021, 03:10:25 PM
From the last two under 20 teams that made it to leinster finals you could argue that the teams were made up of a collective of good footballers as opposed to a team that was driven by 2/3 star or standout footballers. Ultimately, it is only the 'star' footballers from the underage grade that will realistically step up to the senior team and add to things at that level. Those Laois U20 sides of last two years full of fine players, however if we are expecting 7/8 of them to step up to senior in the next 12/24 months and make Laois a competitive division 2 team again I cannot see that happening.
I hear people giving out about Quirke not blooding more youth and annoyed regarding his reliance on the old guard. Unfortunately, I don't see those young footballers in the county who are really challenging or should be in the team ahead of the likes of Timmons, O'Loughlin, Begley, Kingston or Lillis.
I think that's a fair enough argument and it's also true that Quirke didn't have any sort of a preseason or O'Byrne Cup to look at a few potential new players meaning that he basically went with the same squad for two years in a row (with Donie coming back in for this year). He was under pressure from day one to try to keep us in Division Two.
Lacey, O'Flynn, Barry and Byron are in the squad at the moment. That's four players. I thought Diarmuid Whelan was a standout forward in 2019 but is he possibly injured? And I know one game isn't a great sample size but when we played Rosenallis in last year's championship, I though Eoin Dunne was excellent, way ahead of John O'Loughlin (who I'm not saying played badly either).
No matter who is charge of the team next year, I'd be hoping to see a decent effort at unearthing a few potential senior panel players over the coming six or seven months. As Laois Rising says there are possibly a lot of lads of the same standard out there but it's up to a decent manager to identify the ones he thinks he could make something of.
I think Courtwood will be supplying a number of players to the Laois panel that will play in Division 3 next year, e.g. Byron, O'Flynns, Tyrrell and Dunne. It'll be interesting to see how Courtwood get on in this year's championship. Its great to see teams with exciting new talent on the way up.
Agreed. Tyrell Dunne and the 2 Flynns are good enough to be putting pressure on our Senior panellists. It is a shocking indictment of the lack of development in this county that Tyrell in particular has been allowed to drift. It was obvious he had talent many years ago. How lads like him, Dunne in Rosenalis and many many others can be cut loose baffles me. We seem to have serious problems recognising talent and bringing it to maturity.