China Coronavirus

[GetOverTheBar]

Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

[Angelo]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.

Any chance of you linking a case to the takeaways yet. Coward.

Tell you what Patriot. Go back and reread what I said. Then read it again. I'll not be engaging with you again.

So that's a no then. Coward.

[imtommygunn]

Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

Either lock it down or don't. When they say they do it's half arsed. That's the point.

[trueblue1234]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

[Angelo]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

[trueblue1234]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

[Milltown Row2]

Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

The Chinese opened up quickly enough 

But yes common sense would mean that if you have worked from home in the past lockdown what's stopping you now?

If you were able to be furloughed before due to unavoidable contact then why not ?

The scheme is available to March

[Angelo]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

[GetOverTheBar]

Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

The Chinese opened up quickly enough 

But yes common sense would mean that if you have worked from home in the past lockdown what's stopping you now?

If you were able to be furloughed before due to unavoidable contact then why not ?

The scheme is available to March

Now you're talking.

I've no idea about Belfast. I've been working in Office myself whole way through it so I don't know what the footfall is like there to be honest. It would appear there are more essential business now than March. But remember, back in March we were told 15k would be dead in Northern Ireland by the MOH. I think sometime after that, was when people started to lose interest, they knew it was lies (or doomsday scenario reporting at best).

We have to be realistic, Stormont is a mess. Next election they must be punished. No point even talking about them anymore we just have to finish this SF/DUP marriage forever.

The British Govt won't escape it, they'll have a public inquiry in years to come with their figures - there is no way that day won't come for some. Although much like the Iraqi war one, I'd be surprised if that wasn't an exercise in brushing under the carpet.

The Irish Govt after months of relative praise and success are going to get it. Highest rates in the world....no spin can save them there. The only problem the Irish Govt have is, SF are ready to pounce so they'll do what they can to survive from here too.

This is where we are lads - they are all fighting for their political lives from here on, so certain sectors and the likes will be allowed to continue because it's in their interests.

The lockdowns we have now, are the lockdowns we'll continue to have until the vaccine gets us out of the hole. For my money anyway.

Asking for authoritarian rule is insanity. What happens when you have a compliant population, completely under control and crushed....and it's time to let them start to enjoy freedom again?

[imtommygunn]

I wouldn't be asking for that but the lockdown that politicians and government are presenting is not the lockdown we have. That's all.

[GetOverTheBar]

I wouldn't be asking for that but the lockdown that politicians and government are presenting is not the lockdown we have. That's all.

It's a tricky one for the Governments. They have to do something, of course.

But they know that this thing is wiping out the over 80s and above (majorly). They can't let that pass, I mean it's paramount to negligent manslaughter. But the general public, very soon, if not already will start to demand an end to this current state of lockdowns. I don't think we are totally there yet. But come mid Feb, when this current lockdown is extended (No doubt in my mind), that's the battle lost. 

The March lockdown was to save the NHS from collapse, it had public will behind it. The public are no longer interested. What really can the Governments do from here? They know they are responsible for the NHS being a mess, maybe not this particular government but really they know the blame, ultimately falls on them for running the Health Service on a shoestring budget (over X years). So they force it back on the people. "Save the NHS". The question most have is, why did it ever need saving?

[Angelo]

What's the end game here?

What are we actually fighting against?

What's an acceptable metric here?

I just don't get some of the contradictions put forward when it comes to Covid. Why are we so blase when it comes to winter flu deaths every year but outright hysterical about Covid deaths?

[Taylor]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

[APM]

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

It angers me that the likes of David Quinn and Karl Deeter are still regularly being given a platform on national media to talk about Covid - they are right-wing contrarians who know nothing about Covid

Pete Lunn was correct yesterday when he said that we need to stop listening to business lobby groups talking about Covid

Brendan O'Connor responded that we have to listen to them

Listen to them about economic compensation or things they are competent to talk about by all means, but they should have zero voice to talk about the public health situation on national media, and whether their businesses should or should not be open

There is no harm in business lobby groups commenting on the Covid and the public health crisis.  Businesses and entire industries are being destroyed by Covid and therefore these representatives have a responsibility to represent their members.  Where I have a problem is where these people lose the run of themselves and start to ask that their business interests are put above the broader societal interest.  However, I think you would find that in the membership of those organisations, few would want to be associated with these kinds of messages, because most business people live in the community and have decent intentions.   

The problem with some of the contributions from civic society, whether business community or members of the public is where there is a breakdown in discipline where people speak authoritatively and with absolute conviction, but where they have moved beyond their own area of expertise.

[Angelo]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.