Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2016

Started by Ogie, March 04, 2016, 09:59:45 AM

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County baller

Ballinakill v B/K: Borris did well to hold off Abbeyleix the last day and they should have enough experience at the back to keep Cha quiet. Borris by 6.

Portlaoise v The Harps: Portlaoise showed well against CB where as The Harps are struggling at the moment. I can't see them having enough scoring power to win this. Portlaoise by 4.

R/E v Abbeyleix: Both teams would have been hoping for at least semi final places at the start of the championship and now one will be in a relegation final. This should be a dogfight but Rathdowney look the stronger of the two. R/E by 3.

C/B v Camross: C/B were less than convincing against Portlaoise, unless they make huge strides forward I fancy Camross to win again. Camross by 4.

Home Boys Home

#16
B/K V Ballinakill

BB/K should come through this, especially if Joe Campion and Patrick Whelan are back ?  Ballinakill have a strong, experienced half back line and a good pairing in midfield too. Eamon Jackman showed some good form against The Harps and if he can  repeat that and Cha cuts loose then they might be in business. Conor Dunne did a good job man marking Cha the last day but he sacrificed his own game totally in doing so and never got a puck himself, which is not how you want your centre back hurling.

B/K should return Neil Foyle to the forwards, they missed his target man qualities against Abbeyleix. If there is to be an upset this round this match could be it, but as has been said B/K have the strength in depth that Ballinakill don't and should get through by 3-4 points.

Portlaoise V Harps

Portlaoise showed great determination against Clough Ballacolla, which couldn't be said for The Harps who seemed to accept their lot a bit too easily against Ballinakill. However Harps have put Ballinakill and Castletown down in recent years and will surely put up a better fight this weekend to avoid another relegation final. Portlaoise should have enough to win by 4-5 points.

Abbeyleix v Rathdowney Errill

Didn't see R/E play Camross but they will be favourites here. Abbeyleix like Ballinakill don't seem to have the panel depth yet and have 2 or 3 forwards who blow hot and cold. If these 2/3 lads catch fire they have a chance with Mark Kavanagh and Liam O'Connell big losses for R/E. Questions about Abbeyleix's belief against the 'big 4' too after last year when they lost from a winning position against R/E (as they did against B/K in first round).  R/E to win by 6.

Clough Ballacolla v Camross

I thought Clough Ballacolla lookd very slick at times V Portlaoise and always looked like they could get the scores when they needed them. A bit casual though and almost got caught at the end by a determined Portlaoise. For me C/B are the team to beat from what I saw in first round even though they were not at their best. Didn't see Camross, but wouldn't be surprised if these two wound up in the final.

On another note, I am not a fan of the current format.  With 8 teams, two groups of 4 would give everyone 3 matches before knockout. Top two teams in each group into semi finals, bottom two in each group into relegation semi finals should ensure no dead rubbers.  Also, if playing in O'Moore park two matches needed on same day to get a bit of a crowd into the place
 

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I hear that B/K might be missing a few players on Friday as they are on holidays,that might give Ballinakill the edge in the match.

County baller

Home I couldn't disagree more the current format is working well, all the games are competitive and in comparison to our county football championship the hurling works perfectly. I do agree that two games should be played a night, bigger crowds generate better atmosphere!

blueandwhite1

Quote from: County baller on August 04, 2016, 07:29:50 PM
Home I couldn't disagree more the current format is working well, all the games are competitive and in comparison to our county football championship the hurling works perfectly. I do agree that two games should be played a night, bigger crowds generate better atmosphere!

I agree. Every single game has something to play for, either a chance to progress or survive and the margins between survival and progression are tiny. With 2 groups of 4, if you lose your first 2 games, the last game will likely be a dead rubber. There are no dead rubbers in the current format. It is a little convoluted but the level of competitiveness is making a huge difference.

redsetanta

And under the current system every team is guaranteed 3 competitive championship games. With the finalists, top and bottom, getting 4. For years there were plenty of dead rubbers which did nothing for the weaker teams.
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi

Home Boys Home

Seems I am in the minority on this, but I just feel too much depends on the luck of the draw for me under the current system.  Maybe that adds to the excitement for some.

For e.g. I may be wrong, but last year R/E beat Abbeyleix in R1 and were subsequently knocked out after being drawn against CloughBallacolla and Borris Kilcotton I think.  Abbeyleix went back to play Casteltown in losers group and were drawn against Ballinakill in QF. So you could argue R/E would have been better off losing to Abbeyleix because of the luck of the draw.

Also, for two teams you are looking at two matches in a fortnight and out of the Championship after 6-8 months preparation.

Another e.g., if C/B were drawn against R/E and Camross v B/K the losers of these two matches could be playing each other to avoid relegation final.

As it is I'm not sure the big guns are overly concerned with R1 if draw in March is 'kind' with some players going abroad and coming back for R2.

With two groups of 4 and two sets of semi finals the only real dead rubber would arise if two teams arrived into last match both having lost or won both matches.

It's not a perfect system but two groups of 4 with two separate sets of semi finals would generate just as much
excitement, would give most teams an extra match and remove some of the luck element.

The current system is better than before I would agree, and is not the biggest problem we have in Laois hurling.I would be more worried about the standard in the Senior B which apart from Castletown is not good. Also, the hurling in Divsion 1 B league this year was more like Junior hurling than Division 1 B or Senior B.




Home Boys Home

Also, dead rubbers in a two groups of 4 system could be avoided by pairing Round 1 winners together and Round 1 losers together for Round 2.

oneflewoverthecuckoonest

home boys home
you are in a minority of one, when it comes to wanting to ditch the current system and revert to two groups of 4.....over the years no matter what you done in terms of game order, there were always dead rubbers and this resulted in one team gaining and another losing due to the group format and it failed to ignite the interest of spectators.

there may only be room for 8 teams under the current system, but that is the right number as it is ultra competitive. to extend to 10 or 12, all you are doing is bringing in non competitive teams that will be cannon fodder.

I note, you do refer to "luck of  the draw" being a factor in the current format, and I suspect that you may be from abbeyleix, because they seem to have been dealt the weakest hand "draw wise"............an open draw is a fair lottery system, sometimes it favours you, other times not. In most people's eyes Abbeyleix are about seed number 6, they should be embracing the challenge of moving up the ratings by beating a higher seed, rather than complaining about the "bad draws".

this weekend
I think B/K  will just have a little too much for ballinakill,

C/Ballacolla v Camross, comes down to the CB attitude...if they are not 100% tuned in, then Camross may shade  it.

I think Rathdowney/E v abbeyleix will be entertaining, with R/E pulling away in the final quarter.

Portlaoise v Harps. most are making this a win for Portlaoise, I will swing the other way.....P/L did not impress me at the Senior B ranks last year, and I felt they were flattered by C/B, who looked to be going through the motions. The Harps were awful v Ballinakill, but in 2015 they pulled a massive performance  out of no where to hammer castletown. I think the Harps have the better players and if you are into odds, the 5/2 about them beating Portlaoise is very tempting. This Portlaoise side struggles big time when it comes to scoring goals, and such teams in hurling are always vulnerable.

merman

#24
I'm actually with Home Boys Home on this one.
I'd love a group stage and have articulated this consistently over the last couple of years.

The current system is very good, don't get me wrong, but I want more games and I want our strongest players hurling competitively at Championship level over a longer period of time.
I think it would benefit club and county to have a championship game in May, June and July before moving on to the knockouts in August.

Anyway, the current system is working well as seen by how difficult it is to pick any winners from this weekends matches with confidence.

In order of confidence I'll go with
1. Rathdowney/Errill
2. Portlaoise
3. Clough/Ballacolla
4. Ballinakill


Home Boys Home

Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on August 05, 2016, 12:56:00 PM
home boys home
you are in a minority of one, when it comes to wanting to ditch the current system and revert to two groups of 4.....over the years no matter what you done in terms of game order, there were always dead rubbers and this resulted in one team gaining and another losing due to the group format and it failed to ignite the interest of spectators.

there may only be room for 8 teams under the current system, but that is the right number as it is ultra competitive. to extend to 10 or 12, all you are doing is bringing in non competitive teams that will be cannon fodder.

I note, you do refer to "luck of  the draw" being a factor in the current format, and I suspect that you may be from abbeyleix, because they seem to have been dealt the weakest hand "draw wise"............an open draw is a fair lottery system, sometimes it favours you, other times not. In most people's eyes Abbeyleix are about seed number 6, they should be embracing the challenge of moving up the ratings by beating a higher seed, rather than complaining about the "bad draws".

this weekend
I think B/K  will just have a little too much for ballinakill,

C/Ballacolla v Camross, comes down to the CB attitude...if they are not 100% tuned in, then Camross may shade  it.

I think Rathdowney/E v abbeyleix will be entertaining, with R/E pulling away in the final quarter.

Portlaoise v Harps. most are making this a win for Portlaoise, I will swing the other way.....P/L did not impress me at the Senior B ranks last year, and I felt they were flattered by C/B, who looked to be going through the motions. The Harps were awful v Ballinakill, but in 2015 they pulled a massive performance  out of no where to hammer castletown. I think the Harps have the better players and if you are into odds, the 5/2 about them beating Portlaoise is very tempting. This Portlaoise side struggles big time when it comes to scoring goals, and such teams in hurling are always vulnerable.

Don't mind being in a minority, but don't use arguments I never made to reason against me !

Tow groups of 4 with matches in right order greatly reduces chance of dead rubbers. I never suggested increasing it to 10 or 12. (As it happens, I would actually prefer 10 teams but accept that argument is lost for now). We never had a group system with just 2 x 4 teams.

Yes I am from Abbeyleix. I was not "complaining about bad draws", just pointing out the luck/anomaly element. In case it escaped your attention I also mentioned R/E last year and how their reward for beating Abbeyleix in R1 was a much tougher subsequent draw than Abbeyleix's.

As you say, it is a lottery system.



Unlaoised

I'm going go for a few upsets

Harps to beat Portlaoise

Ballinakill to beat Borris

R/D will beat Abbeyleix but not by much

Camross to beat Ballacolla by 6 plus
LAOIS ABÚ

oneflewoverthecuckoonest

we 100% did have the system of 2 groups of 4 in the past, in the 90s....did not work in that era.

burdizzo

Yes, but the problem, as has been mentioned, is what happens to the teams just below the senior level - Ballyfin, Colt, Shanahoe, etc. I agree that the eight team system works well, but it means they have nothing really to aim for - the team coming down will always be too strong for them. Bar they amalgamate, which, in my opinion, isn't the answer either.

Home Boys Home

#29
Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on August 05, 2016, 04:50:02 PM
we 100% did have the system of 2 groups of 4 in the past, in the 90s....did not work in that era.

I don't remember there just being 8 teams in senior during the 90's . Maybe groups of 4 but wiith 12 teams? fair enough if it was 8 back then, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't work now, especially if every team was either in a relegation or championship semi final and two R1 winners and losers play each other in R 2. That would mean r3 could not feature teams who have won or lost both games.

Borris and Ballinakill played out a lack lustre affair tonight and loser would have still been in Championship. Wasn't a dead rubber, but not far off.

Castletown will walk the so called senior b this year and Harps, Abbeyleix or Portlaoise will go back and walk it next year.  Ballyfin, Mountrath, Colt, not to mention Rosenallis And Clonad are going backwards at rate of knots . A ten team senior championship would give those teams at that level something to strive for. If they go back down after a few beatings, they are back in the mix again, but with a years senior experience