Top 10 Forwards since 1977 - Survey Results

Started by Owen Brannigan, April 22, 2017, 10:52:09 AM

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Ball Hopper

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 22, 2017, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 22, 2017, 06:34:00 PM
You missed the factor whereby contributors don't read the rules and give an alphabetical list, instead of a top to bottom list, skewing the results in favour of the likes of Blaney, Brogan, Canavan etc to the detriment of those later in the alphabet.

It would be interesting if those submissions (at least seven) were excluded form this survey; would the outcomes change?

Thanks for pointing that out.  It does skew the results when the weighting is applied. However, if the weighting is removed and the individual votes are counted the results are:

1   Peter Canavan   (1)
2   Colm Cooper   (3)
2   Maurice Fitzgerald   (2)
4   Mickey Linden   (6)
5   Matt Connor   (4)
6   Bernard Brogan   (5)
7   Frank McGuigan   (8 )
7   Stephen O'Neill   (18)
7   Mike Sheehy   (9)
10   Pat Spillane   (10)
11   Ciaran McDonald   (12)
12   John Egan   (11)
12   Steven McDonnell   (17)
12   Larry Tompkins   (16)
15   Greg Blaney   (7)
15   Michael Donnellan   (13)
15   Oisin McConville   (14)
18   Diarmuid Connolly   (19)
18   Michael Murphy   (24)
20   Sean Cavanagh   (15)
20   Trevor Giles   (21)
22   Padraig Joyce   (20)

()Results in brackets are those with the weighting

I was one of the guilty ones...for what it is worth here is the order of my choices:


Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Sheehy Mikey
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
Egan John
Spillane Pat
McDonald Ciaran
McGuigan Frank
Russell Mike Frank

ONeill

I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Syferus

Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?

Cake would win best keeper anyways.

ONeill

I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

ONeill

Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?

Cake would win best keeper anyways.

Forget the fad of scoring points - who's the best shot-stopper? Big Pascal was handy. Cluxton? Charlie Nelligan? Benny Tierney? I'd go for Hearty.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.


ONeill

He actually sprung to mind.

Any man who has a wiki page is a good'un - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McGreevy
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?

Cake would win best keeper anyways.

Forget the fad of scoring points - who's the best shot-stopper? Big Pascal was handy. Cluxton? Charlie Nelligan? Benny Tierney? I'd go for Hearty.

Mickey McVeigh and Brendan McVeigh were excellent keepers for Down in their careers.

redhandefender

Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.

Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.

Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.

Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.

Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!

Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.

Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now

Syferus

#39
Quote from: redhandefender on April 23, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.

Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.

Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.

Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.

Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!

Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.

Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now

You seem a bit upset. Nasty stuff.

I ranked Canavan the fourth best forward I've ever seen ffs.

It's just very obvious that the two Kerry lads were something special, and for me Michael Donnellan's once in a generation gifts - bringing Galway to two AI titles and three finals, the same as Canavan did but in a far more condensed time-frame - puts him above the Tyrone man too.

And whatever way you cut it, Fitzgerald and Cooper are generally the two mentioned when talking about the greatest forwards in the last 20-30 years. This forum by its make-up has an Ulster bias so pointing out that is entirely fair game when it comes to judging these results.

The Stallion

There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.

This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.

BarryBreensBandage

Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.

I would agree with your opinion on Brogan - Charlie Redmond or Dessie Farrell in their day were as good as Brogan, and I don't think they were even mentioned in this poll/thread.
"Some people say I am indecisive..... maybe I am, maybe I'm not".

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.

This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.

OK but ask this about any forward you may choose:

1. Was he a consistent scorer in big games?

2. Did he pose a scoring threat against every team across the country and over a period of time?

3. Was he a match winner on a regular basis and when it really mattered, i.e. could he turn a game around?

4. Did he make his team mates play better than they were as individuals?

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.

This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.

One thing that nobody seems to discuss about Gooch is his diving and moaning and whining to match officials, trying to referee games. I just wanted to add that in there in terms of balance. Just ask Limerick football fans what they thought of his behaviour on the pitch.

Canavan took it and dished it out, he was well able to look after himself which is one of the reasons why he was so great.




Il Bomber Destro

#44
Quote from: Syferus on April 23, 2017, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: redhandefender on April 23, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.

Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.

Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.

Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.

Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!

Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.

Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now

You seem a bit upset. Nasty stuff.

I ranked Canavan the fourth best forward I've ever seen ffs.

It's just very obvious that the two Kerry lads were something special, and for me Michael Donnellan's once in a generation gifts - bringing Galway to two AI titles and three finals, the same as Canavan did but in a far more condensed time-frame - puts him above the Tyrone man too.

And whatever way you cut it, Fitzgerald and Cooper are generally the two mentioned when talking about the greatest forwards in the last 20-30 years. This forum by its make-up has an Ulster bias so pointing out that is entirely fair game when it comes to judging these results.

You were saying in this thread a few minutes ago that it was hard to bring yourself to claiming Lee Keegan was the best footballer in the country because he was a Mayo man.

How do you square that off with claiming Canavan only gathered that rank on here because of an Ulster bias? Do you think a lot of Ulster counties would take pleasure in giving a Tyrone man, and an absolute scourge to their counties at that?

There's a deep rooted conflict ion you've created for yourself there.

You also note that Fiztgerald and Cooper are generally regarded as the two greatest of the past 20-30 years? By who, those with a free state bias?

The bottom line is with Cooper anyway, despite all what his cheerleaders may say, that he does not have reference points in his career of coming to his side's rescue in the really, really big games and dragging him over the line and there were plenty of times when Kerry needed this in his career. It's grand having all the talent Gooch unquestionably had but what use is it when he couldn't turn it on when needed. He's lucky he played in such a talented side, he's blessed Donaghy came on the scene when he did, history will say he lost more All Ireland's than he won and the only victories he had were against Cork and Mayo sides who were terrified at the sight of the Kerry green and gold jerseys. In 2004, 2006 and 2007 you got the impression Mayo and Cork were beaten from the first few minutes, psychologically they didn't have it.

When you have the all the skill and talent Gooch had, then it's easy to play when all the parameters allow you to play. It is when they turn and the odds are against you that you will find the true worth of that player.