American Sports Thread

Asal Mor · October 07, 2013, 04:58:46 PM

One stat that caught my eye from the weekend was Kaeppernick only completing 6 passes from 15 attempts. Those are Tim Tebow type numbers. The 49ers had a great win all the same but I wonder if they are starting to worry that they might have gone with the wrong guy, with Alex Smith 5-0 at Kansas. I think Kaeppernick is a phenomenon who'll come good but he's really struggling lately.

magpie seanie · October 07, 2013, 05:01:50 PM

Lies, damned lies and statistics. Joe Flacco's playoff TD:INT ratio is 19:8, or 2.375:1 and he's an average, ahem, Joe.

The NFL is a passing league but defenses bite back in January.

Regarding Kaepernick - it's not even for discussion that he is light years ahead of Smith. He has no-one to throw to at present and on Sunday it didn't matter so they didn't bother. He can do it all though. Smith is a good QB too and Reid will and is getting the best outof him but I know who I'd want at the helm in the playoffs.

gallsman · October 07, 2013, 06:25:44 PM

Quote from: Asal Mor on October 07, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Ouch. Americans love to talk about their sportsmen in terms of how clutch they are and it's easy to get labelled as a choker. LeBron James had the choker tag a couple of years ago in all corners of the American media, but 2 NBA titles and 2 MVP awards later he's a clutch player. I'm a recent convert to the NFL but I thought Manning was very unlucky last year. As Phil Simms said it wasn't Peyton Manning who gave up the Hail Mary touchdown to Torrey Smith.

The shouts against LeBron were absolute nonsense though. Last year before the first title they were still at it when he passed instead of shooting at the death in the All Star game ffs.

stew · October 07, 2013, 06:53:56 PM

Brady has three rings, Manning has one, his younger brother has two for Gods sake, the teams are better in the playoffs and that is why Manning has struggled, I would take Rodgers all day long over Manning over a whole season, manning is a tremendous regular season player and a good post season player.

Brady the the best of them all, the rings have it.

AZOffaly · October 07, 2013, 08:25:31 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 07, 2013, 05:01:50 PM
Lies, damned lies and statistics. Joe Flacco's playoff TD:INT ratio is 19:8, or 2.375:1 and he's an average, ahem, Joe.

The NFL is a passing league but defenses bite back in January.

Regarding Kaepernick - it's not even for discussion that he is light years ahead of Smith. He has no-one to throw to at present and on Sunday it didn't matter so they didn't bother. He can do it all though. Smith is a good QB too and Reid will and is getting the best outof him but I know who I'd want at the helm in the playoffs.

Absolutely agree with you Seanie. I wouldn't be a big man for stats unless they are put in context. I do think it's interesting that Mannings stats kind of bear out the eyetest though. It's not imaginary that he does struggle (relatively speaking) in the playoffs. As I said, not particularly surprising given the fact that he played in the AFC when some very strong defences were in the playoffs each year (Ravens, Steelers, Patriots etc).

Minder · October 07, 2013, 08:43:25 PM

If its all about the rings then surely Eli is better than Brady as both his rings came against the Pats ?

"Mr October" is extremely harsh on Manning. The Colts were 3-13 the year he was drafted. There are too many facets of the game to hang it all on the QB, offence, defence and special teams. Mannings regular season probably was padded slightly with the colts playing in a relatively weak division, expansion Texans, Jags had been uncompetitive for a long time. Anyone that reckons Eli is a better QB needs their head examined, he had a tremendous defence to help him win two Superbowls.

After Edgerrin James was done in Indy their running game was never anything other than serviceable. A slightly soft Defence probably held them back in the playoffs too.

It may seem like i am making loads of excuses for Peyton, maybe i am

, but i wouldnt have been his biggest fan over the years and thought he was slightly over rated but you cant argue with what he has done.

Cnsidering what he has done since what could have been a career ending neck injury is unbelievable.

You cant really use Montanas time with the 49ers as a barometer, as due to free agency and expansion there has been a greater dilution of talent across the league and teams breaking up almost every year or two.

stew · October 08, 2013, 04:26:58 AM

Quote from: Minder on October 07, 2013, 08:43:25 PM
If its all about the rings then surely Eli is better than Brady as both his rings came against the Pats ?

"Mr October" is extremely harsh on Manning. The Colts were 3-13 the year he was drafted. There are too many facets of the game to hang it all on the QB, offence, defence and special teams. Mannings regular season probably was padded slightly with the colts playing in a relatively weak division, expansion Texans, Jags had been uncompetitive for a long time. Anyone that reckons Eli is a better QB needs their head examined, he had a tremendous defence to help him win two Superbowls.

After Edgerrin James was done in Indy their running game was never anything other than serviceable. A slightly soft Defence probably held them back in the playoffs too.

It may seem like i am making loads of excuses for Peyton, maybe i am , but i wouldnt have been his biggest fan over the years and thought he was slightly over rated but you cant argue with what he has done.

Cnsidering what he has done since what could have been a career ending neck injury is unbelievable.

You cant really use Montanas time with the 49ers as a barometer, as due to free agency and expansion there has been a greater dilution of talent across the league and teams breaking up almost every year or two.

3 rings beats two all day long minder, no one on the planet thinks Manning lite is better than Brady.

deiseach · October 08, 2013, 10:51:49 AM

Quote from: Minder on October 07, 2013, 08:43:25 PM
"Mr October" is extremely harsh on Manning.

I don't know if it is fair or not. It probably isn't - the article I read it in was written before the Colts won the Super Bowl and Tom Brady had yet to have his veneer of playoff invincibility punctured by the younger Manning. But in the context of the clutch/choke dynamic referred to by Asal Mor, it's a brilliant insult.

magpie seanie · October 08, 2013, 11:17:51 AM

Someone here said Peyton won his SB against "a poor team".

Firstly it's impossible for "a poor team" to make the SB. Bears were 13-3 that regular season. That was a team with an absolutely brilliant defense playing at the height of their powers and the best special team unit (all-time???) in the NFL admittedly to make up for a terrible QB. Da Bears weren't that far from winning that game, they were a good team. Rex's 3 turnovers plus two others were too much to overcome. All Grossman had to be was a game manager and that Bears team would have won that SB but he couldn't even manage that.

Gabriel_Hurl · October 08, 2013, 05:36:04 PM

Interesting take on doing an onside kick

Minder · October 08, 2013, 06:16:57 PM

Julio Jones out for the rest of the year

magpie seanie · October 09, 2013, 02:14:41 PM

Quote from: Minder on October 08, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Julio Jones out for the rest of the year

Looks like it. Atlanta have been getting no luck. I own him in the Montana League so I felt sick when I heard it. Reports saying it's related to the surgery he has to fix his foot after the combine in 2011. That does not sound great.

RealSpiritof98 · October 09, 2013, 04:36:12 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 07, 2013, 05:01:50 PM
Lies, damned lies and statistics. Joe Flacco's playoff TD:INT ratio is 19:8, or 2.375:1 and he's an average, ahem, Joe.

The NFL is a passing league but defenses bite back in January.

Regarding Kaepernick - it's not even for discussion that he is light years ahead of Smith. He has no-one to throw to at present and on Sunday it didn't matter so they didn't bother. He can do it all though. Smith is a good QB too and Reid will and is getting the best outof him but I know who I'd want at the helm in the playoffs.

Define light years, forgive me i'm a huge NFL (and 49ers) fan but only been really into it this past 4/5 years or so, im learning everytime i watch.

I understand Smith was in and out of the 49ers starting QB berth pre Harbaugh but he was a No1 draft pick (Rodgers year i think) which portrays natural talent. He was 2 very bad special team mistakes away from a Super bowl 2 years ago, started last year like a house on fire with top stats until he got injured and replaced . Traded to Kansas and is killing it there with Andy Reid, whats not to like about him at present (also considering how hard it is for NFL to actually find a good QB)

i just feel he gets a bad press and has been hard done by. I really like Kaepernick but in my eyes he couldn't possibly be light years ahead of Smith.

magpie seanie · October 09, 2013, 05:05:40 PM

Kaepernick can do everything. Smith cannot do certain things like throw down the field or run. He's a good QB but Kaepernick is just sensational in my book. His arm strength is ridiculous and his accuracy is just as good.

stew · October 09, 2013, 08:13:58 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2013, 05:05:40 PM
Kaepernick can do everything. Smith cannot do certain things like throw down the field or run. He's a good QB but Kaepernick is just sensational in my book. His arm strength is ridiculous and his accuracy is just as good.

I agree for the most part Seanie but teams now seem capable of figuring him out, he has had a couple of less than stellar games already this season and they have lost.

I think he will be right up there with Brady and Rodgers and PM in a year or so but he needs to be consistently excellent to be thought of in the same league as those three.